So what options are out there for the LML besides the H&S? My GF just bought an LML and I need to find her a tuner/program since my EFI Live won't work on it. The H&S is probably the best from what I've read but they are also pretty expensive. She needs to see better MPG's {17mpg stock kinda sucks} and more power. Her LML seem a bit slow to her {me too but I'm used to lots of power :D} compared to her chipped LBZ.

Bullydog and the Diablo Power Puck. I'm fixing to order a Power Puck and see what I think about it.

I run the power puck.

What do you think of it Mike?

If you want to remove the DPF and DEF, H&S is the only way to go. We have seen good results from the Powerpuck. It gives you roughly 40-50 rwhp.

What do you think of it Mike?

A lot of bang for the buck at 280.00.

A lot of bang for the buck at 280.00.

Tell me more about this please sir :)

x2

This looks exactly like what I would like to get. I only want a 50hp tune because the truck already runs awesome, I just want an extra edge.

Does this only adjust fuel though? Do other tunes adjust turbo boost? What is fuel mileage like with it activated?

Mike L., how much extra power will these new Allisons take? I had my trans built on my old truck. I wasn't going to go crazy with my new one, at least I keep telling my self that. Has anyone limped one yet with a tune? Plus, do you get a lot more regeneration with the Power Puck?

Mike L., how much extra power will these new Allisons take? I had my trans built on my old truck. I wasn't going to go crazy with my new one, at least I keep telling my self that. Has anyone limped one yet with a tune? Plus, do you get a lot more regeneration with the Power Puck?

Think that depends on whether or not you're using 4WD to launch with. I have been reading that the Allison might need built up at the +200hp mark, but haven't confirmed that yet.

I saw a dyne of a guy who was cranking more than 1,000hp and 1700 ft lbs tq. I am sure if anyone would know, he would know where the threshold was/is.

I don't have 4WD, so I am not worried about 100hp.

Anything 01-10 will only take about 100hp over stock. The 11/12's are what I'm wondering about. Seems like maybe they would handle a bit more. MikeL should know if anyone does ;).

Think that depends on whether or not you're using 4WD to launch with. I have been reading that the Allison might need built up at the +200hp mark, but haven't confirmed that yet.

I saw a dyne of a guy who was cranking more than 1,000hp and 1700 ft lbs tq. I am sure if anyone would know, he would know where the threshold was/is.

I don't have 4WD, so I am not worried about 100hp.

Anything 01-10 will only take about 100hp over stock. The 11/12's are what I'm wondering about. Seems like maybe they would handle a bit more. MikeL should know if anyone does ;).

Hoping to see a confirmation on this too now. So how does a HD transmission have issues with 100hp? I am not doubting your comment, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is because they are designed for tq and not necessarily hp? I have little transmission knowledge.

Yeah they will slip/limp if you go over 100hp above stock. We have one with a 200hp tune and we slip it every time we mash the go peddle down in 5th gear :rolleyes:. It's getting built soon with S/C or PPE parts.

Hoping to see a confirmation on this too now. So how does a HD transmission have issues with 100hp? I am not doubting your comment, it just doesn't make sense to me. It is because they are designed for tq and not necessarily hp? I have little transmission knowledge.

Yeah they will slip/limp if you go over 100hp above stock. We have one with a 200hp tune and we slip it every time we mash the go peddle down in 5th gear :rolleyes:. It's getting built soon with S/C or PPE parts.

Hmmm, should I be concerned about having a power puck then? Dynoed at around 50-70rwhp, and rated at around 90hp at the crank.

Hmmm, should I be concerned about having a power puck then? Dynoed at around 50-70rwhp, and rated at around 90hp at the crank.

It's how you drive it. I made my stock Allison last 50K in my LBZ with the last 70% being at 500RWHP or better and it lived just fine, never had a limp till the day I had it built.

Common sense goes along ways..

Since were on the topic, when I turn my Mini Maxx up to Hot the tranny has a tough time shifting out of 3rd. It doesn't clunk or anything just kinda sits there, i usually back off and it will shift normally. This is more in a race scenario, normal cruising it runs 100%.

Since were on the topic, when I turn my Mini Maxx up to Hot the tranny has a tough time shifting out of 3rd. It doesn't clunk or anything just kinda sits there, i usually back off and it will shift normally. This is more in a race scenario, normal cruising it runs 100%.

Watch your ICP (Injection control pressure) when this slow 3-4 shift happens. My money is on the fact that you are draining the rail. It should stay up at 27-30,000 psi, but yours is probably dropping down to 20-22,000. When this happens, you lose a LOT of power and the engine will have a hard time reaching the 3-4 RPM WOT shift point. It is nothing to do with the transmission, rather the engine falling behind on fueling.

Well then h&s fix this in your tuning ive seen lml drain the rail with your mild tune... There is no reason for the tuning to blow fuel out like it does on take off ... It may be true that the injection pumps are weak but there is no reason they cant make a solid 450 hp

Watch your ICP (Injection control pressure) when this slow 3-4 shift happens. My money is on the fact that you are draining the rail. It should stay up at 27-30,000 psi, but yours is probably dropping down to 20-22,000. When this happens, you lose a LOT of power and the engine will have a hard time reaching the 3-4 RPM WOT shift point. It is nothing to do with the transmission, rather the engine falling behind on fueling.

I took the truck for a drive and now that I payed more attention you could very well be right. What would you suggest? Lift pump?

I took the truck for a drive and now that I payed more attention you could very well be right. What would you suggest? Lift pump?

I think that would help..


And for God's sake H&S, will you please work on this throttle mapping? The truck moves like a turtle. :confused:

Is a problem of the stock hardware not keeping up or does the tuning just need some work I wonder?

Is a problem of the stock hardware not keeping up or does the tuning just need some work I wonder?

I can almost bet GM mapped the throttle pedal to help the MPG figures for the '11. When the power doesn't come on tap instantly, it eases the pain.

Well then h&s fix this in your tuning ive seen lml drain the rail with your mild tune... There is no reason for the tuning to blow fuel out like it does on take off ... It may be true that the injection pumps are weak but there is no reason they cant make a solid 450 hp

We have literally thousands of trucks running with our LML tuning, most of which stick with the HOT setting and have no problems. Due to manufacturer tolerance variance and pump wear, some trucks will keep up with fueling demands and some will not. In other words, yes, there are numerous reasons that some trucks will make less HP than others. We have done the best with the hardware that we currently have to work with. Unfortunately until someone comes out with a modified CP4 pump, our hands are tied.

I think that would help..


And for God's sake H&S, will you please work on this throttle mapping? The truck moves like a turtle. :confused:

If you are still running the DPF, we unfortunately cannot do much for increasing fuel rate for tip in conditions. Because of the strict emissions monitoring and maintenance, fueling is kept at limits that will not plug your DPF system and cause you problems. With increased throttle sensitivity, there will be negative side affects on many other systems in the truck. These complexities cannot be easily explained, but suffice it to say that we design the product at a happy medium that will accomodate as much of our demographic as we possibly can. For the most responsive running LML, you will need to run the race tuning with an offroad exhaust system.

I took the truck for a drive and now that I payed more attention you could very well be right. What would you suggest? Lift pump?

A lift pump will not increase your high pressure fuel pump's flow rate. The problem lies in the fact that the maximum flow volume for the CP4.2 pump is much less than the previous model year's CP3 pump. Fueling is required to make power, less fuel available means less power on tap for tuning gains. The option at this point is to wait for the aftermarket to catch up with some sort of pump upgrade or dual fuel kit to maintain injection pressures while upping the injection pulse widths.

We have designed a dual CP4 kit for the 2011 Ford 6.7L (same pump as the LML), but have yet to find the time to assemble it and test for functionality. The demand is here and will be continually growing for an upgrade kit to provide more fuel.... eventually someone will jump on the opportunity.

If you are still running the DPF, we unfortunately cannot do much for increasing fuel rate for tip in conditions. Because of the strict emissions monitoring and maintenance, fueling is kept at limits that will not plug your DPF system and cause you problems. With increased throttle sensitivity, there will be negative side affects on many other systems in the truck. These complexities cannot be easily explained, but suffice it to say that we design the product at a happy medium that will accomodate as much of our demographic as we possibly can. For the most responsive running LML, you will need to run the race tuning with an offroad exhaust system.

And your problem is STILL not fixed on the race tune either. Many with DPF deletes are reporting the same lag in the throttle response. I want to hear the DPF Sensor, this, and that..

How come the LMM takes off like a rocket and it has a DPF also?

And your problem is STILL not fixed on the race tune either. Many with DPF deletes are reporting the same lag in the throttle response. I want to hear the DPF Sensor, this, and that..

How come the LMM takes off like a rocket and it has a DPF also?

I am not here to argue what you think the truck should do... that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do know what the truck is capable of, and what limitations the software/hardware entails. We have had GREAT reviews on the LML tuning thus far and will continue to develop the product as we see is necessary to keep our customer base happy.

This is not an LMM, as you may have noticed. Not only is the hardware different, but the entire engine management software and ECU is 100% different. As hardware in the aftermarket progresses, tunes will become available to take advantage of these advancements. For now we are creating the most driveable, smoke free, and consistent tune that we can with the hardware and software that GM has given us.

I personally love the throttle response traits that the LML exhibits. To have a fast truck it does not mean you need a surging, smoking, and over sensitive fueling system. The LML performs just as we have designed it to, and continues to impress our customers with how well it responds to our tuning changes.

I am not here to argue what you think the truck should do... that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I do know what the truck is capable of, and what limitations the software/hardware entails. We have had GREAT reviews on the LML tuning thus far and will continue to develop the product as we see is necessary to keep our customer base happy.

This is not an LMM, as you may have noticed. Not only is the hardware different, but the entire engine management software and ECU is 100% different. As hardware in the aftermarket progresses, tunes will become available to take advantage of these advancements. For now we are creating the most driveable, smoke free, and consistent tune that we can with the hardware and software that GM has given us.

I personally love the throttle response traits that the LML exhibits. To have a fast truck it does not mean you need a surging, smoking, and over sensitive fueling system. The LML performs just as we have designed it to, and continues to impress our customers with how well it responds to our tuning changes.


Who said ANYTHING about surging, smoking, or over sensitive fuel system. You are now backtracking your first post saying the DPF delete fixes it. That is not the case it seems..

I bet your don't drive a LML everyday either to "love" those traits. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is to have to floor the throttle to make a quick move in traffic, then get sling shot across the intersection? Because, that is exactly how the throttle is on the LML..

Who said ANYTHING about surging, smoking, or over sensitive fuel system. You are now backtracking your first post saying the DPF delete fixes it. That is not the case it seems..

I bet your don't drive a LML everyday either to "love" those traits. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is to have to floor the throttle to make a quick move in traffic, then get sling shot across the intersection? Because, that is exactly how the throttle is on the LML..

Not here to argue with you sir. You could contact General Motors to see if they would change some of the hardware/software to better suit your needs?

I am not back tracking anything, just stating the facts of the situation. Throttle response on the emissions present tuning is restricted to what the emissions system can handle. For emissions removed tuning throttle response is greatly improved over stock, and is adjusted to the point that is a fine balance between performance, hardware limitations, software limitations, drivability, and longevity. I have over 15,000 miles on my LML and love driving it. No such "slingshot" action such as you talk about.

Thanks again for your input on the situation, it will be taken into consideration along with all of the other feedback we obtain daily.

If you have any further questions, feel free to email or call directly to H&S Performance. We are here to answer questions and help in any way that we can. 888-628-1730. Thanks! I feel my points have been expressed, and there is no further need to continue this "back and forth" motion.

Who said ANYTHING about surging, smoking, or over sensitive fuel system. You are now backtracking your first post saying the DPF delete fixes it. That is not the case it seems..

I bet your don't drive a LML everyday either to "love" those traits. Do you know what a pain in the ass it is to have to floor the throttle to make a quick move in traffic, then get sling shot across the intersection? Because, that is exactly how the throttle is on the LML..
8100 why dont you just use your own truck and about 250k and do your own R&D and tuning? Call EFI I'm sure they could use your knowledge on these computer controlled beasts since they have'nt done what H&S already has. I'm starting to think your truck runs on vinegar and water with a slight rose petal scent.:D

For the most responsive running LML, you will need to run the race tuning with an offroad exhaust system.

I'm running a AFE cat delete pipe, Flo pro cat-back no DPF, into 5" MBRP dual stacks. Still not very responsive. Do you offer shift on the fly tuning for the LML? Just looking at your signature, do I need todo a software update?

8100 why dont you just use your own truck and about 250k and do your own R&D and tuning? Call EFI I'm sure they could use your knowledge on these computer controlled beasts since they have'nt done what H&S already has. I'm starting to think your truck runs on vinegar and water with a slight rose petal scent.:D

Here we go with that topic.. With all respect to EFILive, they elected not to be put out of business by ILLEGALLY taking a copy of the engine computers files.

Until you run the tuning you have no dog in this race.. or do you? You seem happy, a first time poster that is praising someone else. Sounds fishy to me.

I'm not saying the tuning is bad at all, it is a smooth program. I'll stop right there with it.. I'm not the only one that bitches about it though.

8100 why dont you just use your own truck and about 250k and do your own R&D and tuning? Call EFI I'm sure they could use your knowledge on these computer controlled beasts since they have'nt done what H&S already has. I'm starting to think your truck runs on vinegar and water with a slight rose petal scent.:D

Nevermind, I see your problem.

Just remember the Super Duty will work harder,sell more,get 21+ mpg's,solid axle and well just be a FORD. How is the whimpy Allison going to hold that much power? My 6.4 put down 597/1231 and the tranny is holding up great. The Allison goes limp with a little 120HP tuner. I guess that is why it has a girl's name.

Nevermind, I see your problem.
Yep thats my problem! I buy ALOT of trucks. My Ford dealer is no longer mod friendly so I traded it and bought a Dodge. I saw this king of the hill test and thought Id buy another GM and its in the shop now because I knocked the DEF tank loose on a lease road. As for as what I said about the Ford I still believe that. It really doesnt matter cause in 4-5 monyhs I might be in another Dodge who knows. I've been buying from H&S since they started. I go through more trucks than they do!:D

Here we go with that topic.. With all respect to EFILive, they elected not to be put out of business by ILLEGALLY taking a copy of the engine computers files.

Until you run the tuning you have no dog in this race.. or do you? You seem happy, a first time poster that is praising someone else. Sounds fishy to me.

I'm not saying the tuning is bad at all, it is a smooth program. I'll stop right there with it.. I'm not the only one that bitches about it though.
Ah so you support H&S doing something illegal by buying their product? If I thought that was going on I would'ny buy their products and support them the way I do.

Ah so you support H&S doing something illegal by buying their product? If I thought that was going on I would'ny buy their products and support them the way I do.

I'm stating points that have been made. I don't know how their doing it, and don't care really.

I just wanted the point made of the throttle mapping of the LML truck. It sucks...

That is all.

I guess every truck can be different. I drove a friends truck with the Mini and did'nt really notice anything at all. IMO alot has to do with fueling the truck to protect the Ally. In stock form the Max/Ally work beautiful together but like I said in a post it cant hold strong aftermarket power the way a TorqueShift can. So far I guess H&S is gettingit to hold a 150RWHP tune so they must be doing something right and I believe their doing it by the way they fuel the truck. My '06 LBZ would limp with a 90HP Power Pup.

I guess every truck can be different. I drove a friends truck with the Mini and did'nt really notice anything at all. IMO alot has to do with fueling the truck to protect the Ally. In stock form the Max/Ally work beautiful together but like I said in a post it cant hold strong aftermarket power the way a TorqueShift can. So far I guess H&S is gettingit to hold a 150RWHP tune so they must be doing something right and I believe their doing it by the way they fuel the truck. My '06 LBZ would limp with a 90HP Power Pup.

I somewhat agree.

My 06 LBZ held 500RWHP for over 50K before I went and had it built without one limp..

Most of that time would be on the hot tune. Maybe i had a lucky truck?

Again I think it has to do with tuning. I'm sure Bentley could write you a tune that would take off at 9g's but the Ally would be in 24 pieces. I'm sure you were running PPE or EFI back then to make that kind of power so that is probably why your tranny lasted that long.....and I think you got a special one to.:)

Ah so you support H&S doing something illegal by buying their product? If I thought that was going on I would'ny buy their products and support them the way I do.ok so im kind of dumb on this one what is H&S doing that efi cant or wont do to get the programming?:confused:

It sounds like we need to see the dyno of the H&S tune vs the stock tune. It almost sounds like they managed a strong peak hp at a high rpm and WOT, but little tuning spent in the other % of throttle and rpm ranges. This is quite common, and honestly, I don't care for that kind of tuning, if this is the case. If looking for a tune strictly for drag racing, this is ok, but 99% of us use these as daily drivers and a tune based around drivability is going to be best. This way, you can stay at or below the 20% throttle position and remain at a high mpg, but then bump passed that, and gain different hp/tq curves.

It sounds like we need to see the dyno of the H&S tune vs the stock tune. It almost sounds like they managed a strong peak hp at a high rpm and WOT, but little tuning spent in the other % of throttle and rpm ranges. This is quite common, and honestly, I don't care for that kind of tuning, if this is the case. If looking for a tune strictly for drag racing, this is ok, but 99% of us use these as daily drivers and a tune based around drivability is going to be best. This way, you can stay at or below the 20% throttle position and remain at a high mpg, but then bump passed that, and gain different hp/tq curves.

http://www.hsperformance.com/2011-lml-duramax-dyno/

We proudly display those dyno numbers. Uncorrected on a Mustang 1100SE. As anyone can see, the entire RPM range has huge gains in HP and torque. Throttle position has nothing to do with MPG or horsepower for that matter. It is merely a reference input to an algorithm to calculate final fueling. What is happening behind the scenes with pressure, energizing times, and timing is what will affect your fuel consumption/HP output.

Yep thats my problem! I buy ALOT of trucks. My Ford dealer is no longer mod friendly so I traded it and bought a Dodge. I saw this king of the hill test and thought Id buy another GM and its in the shop now because I knocked the DEF tank loose on a lease road. As for as what I said about the Ford I still believe that. It really doesnt matter cause in 4-5 monyhs I might be in another Dodge who knows. I've been buying from H&S since they started. I go through more trucks than they do!:D

Seriously though.... you buy way too many trucks. Do they still have the "new car scent" when you sell them? :D

I'm running a AFE cat delete pipe, Flo pro cat-back no DPF, into 5" MBRP dual stacks. Still not very responsive. Do you offer shift on the fly tuning for the LML? Just looking at your signature, do I need todo a software update?

We do not currently have a shift on the fly solution for the LML models. My signature encompasses numerous trucks that we offer tuning for. Hope that clears it up!

We have toyed with doing some "hot damn" tuning on the LML. But the CP4.2 pump simply is a weak point. Fueling the truck hard down low creates a low pressure situation that honestly the pump has a very hard time recovering from, if it EVER recovers. Small adaptions will be made in the future, but until the aftermarket comes with some more options for hardware, we will provide the best solution we can.

Hmmm. Def sounds like these guys are missing something. Those dynos look like the trucks should be running strong right out of the hole.

Do our trucks have that weird programming from the factory that doesn't allow all the hp to kick in until highway speeds?

We do not currently have a shift on the fly solution for the LML models. My signature encompasses numerous trucks that we offer tuning for. Hope that clears it up!

We have toyed with doing some "hot damn" tuning on the LML. But the CP4.2 pump simply is a weak point. Fueling the truck hard down low creates a low pressure situation that honestly the pump has a very hard time recovering from, if it EVER recovers. Small adaptions will be made in the future, but until the aftermarket comes with some more options for hardware, we will provide the best solution we can.

i like the sound of that hot damn tuning!
Without getting too much into technical things does the CP4.2 flow more fuel than a CP3?

Seriously though.... you buy way too many trucks. Do they still have the "new car scent" when you sell them? :D

Every one of them....well unless"dirty Mike and the boys" come over! Lol

We do not currently have a shift on the fly solution for the LML models. My signature encompasses numerous trucks that we offer tuning for. Hope that clears it up!

We have toyed with doing some "hot damn" tuning on the LML. But the CP4.2 pump simply is a weak point. Fueling the truck hard down low creates a low pressure situation that honestly the pump has a very hard time recovering from, if it EVER recovers. Small adaptions will be made in the future, but until the aftermarket comes with some more options for hardware, we will provide the best solution we can.

I appreciate everything HS is doing and has done for the LML. without them we would still be stuck with the DEF crap... However, I am still having issues with the exhaust hiss that still cant be fixed. I know for a fact that I am not the only one with this problem.... I also know that there are trucks running exactly the same hardware and tuning that I am running with no hiss at all.... ???
HS has had 3 months + to work out this problem and I ( along with many others) are still stuck.....
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, however, the simple problems I am having are not with hardware limitations, or fueling issues, but simple programming that still cant be fixed in three months + time...... HS???

ok so im kind of dumb on this one what is H&S doing that efi cant or wont do to get the programming?:confused:so no one has a big enough set of marbles to touch this one:eek::confused::confused::confused::confused:

so no one has a big enough set of marbles to touch this one:eek::confused::confused::confused::confused:

Yes, it's been talked about 10000x before.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=430010

I appreciate everything HS is doing and has done for the LML. without them we would still be stuck with the DEF crap... However, I am still having issues with the exhaust hiss that still cant be fixed. I know for a fact that I am not the only one with this problem.... I also know that there are trucks running exactly the same hardware and tuning that I am running with no hiss at all.... ???
HS has had 3 months + to work out this problem and I ( along with many others) are still stuck.....
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, however, the simple problems I am having are not with hardware limitations, or fueling issues, but simple programming that still cant be fixed in three months + time...... HS???

Trucks with no muffler have a very different sound than those running a muffler. This is not a "problem", in my eyes. This is an annoyance for those running certain exhaust systems. We run a Flo Pro 4" kit with muffler and I have no complaints on the exhaust note. Fact of the matter is that each exhaust will sound different than the next depending on the manufacturer and design. I wish we had a solution right now for you guys, but we have not found a stable way around the factory turbo logic at this point. When and if this new feature is available from H&S, we will be sure to let you guys know.

I appreciate everything HS is doing and has done for the LML. without them we would still be stuck with the DEF crap... However, I am still having issues with the exhaust hiss that still cant be fixed. I know for a fact that I am not the only one with this problem.... I also know that there are trucks running exactly the same hardware and tuning that I am running with no hiss at all.... ???
HS has had 3 months + to work out this problem and I ( along with many others) are still stuck.....
I'm sorry to hijack this thread, however, the simple problems I am having are not with hardware limitations, or fueling issues, but simple programming that still cant be fixed in three months + time...... HS???

As for why some guys get the variable turbo hiss at idle and some do not, that is going to be due to what kind of exhaust is installed. If the cat and downpipe are replaced, it will be much more noticeable. All trucks will get the same tuning, so in theory they should be identical. We have worked on this diligently, but unfortunately do not have a fix at this time.

As far as "simple programming" this could not be further from the facts. There is no software that tells us which tables do what, or if the code we are looking at is even a table at all. We are looking at thousands of pages of hexadecimal code that can take hundreds of trial and error beta files to find certain tables. This table is literally the smallest needle in the world in the biggest haystack.

We are doing our best to improve the tuning, and we do appreciate the feedback and the support. With all of your help we will keep pushing the limits of what the LML can do, and we thank each one of you for helping us achieve this goal.

-Casey @ H&S

As for why some guys get the variable turbo hiss at idle and some do not, that is going to be due to what kind of exhaust is installed. If the cat and downpipe are replaced, it will be much more noticeable. All trucks will get the same tuning, so in theory they should be identical. We have worked on this diligently, but unfortunately do not have a fix at this time.

As far as "simple programming" this could not be further from the facts. There is no software that tells us which tables do what, or if the code we are looking at is even a table at all. We are looking at thousands of pages of hexadecimal code that can take hundreds of trial and error beta files to find certain tables. This table is literally the smallest needle in the world in the biggest haystack.

We are doing our best to improve the tuning, and we do appreciate the feedback and the support. With all of your help we will keep pushing the limits of what the LML can do, and we thank each one of you for helping us achieve this goal.

-Casey @ H&S
Please let me refresh my point. With the exact same components and tuning on a truck, one makes a hiss and the other does not.... That would not be an exhaust problem nor a muffler problem if each truck has the same components and one hiss's and the other does not.
Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate what HS does, and is doing. I am just severely frustrated that HS still is not seeing the entire picture here. I understand that programming is difficult on the LML, but its not impossible since HS was able to crack it and build a comprehensive performance tune.
My point in this being a "simple fix" is in relative terms to building an entire program from scratch. Its obvious that the hiss is caused by the turbo veins, which in comparison to removing the emissions programming should be a "simple fix".

Please let me refresh my point. With the exact same components and tuning on a truck, one makes a hiss and the other does not.... That would not be an exhaust problem nor a muffler problem if each truck has the same components and one hiss's and the other does not.
Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate what HS does, and is doing. I am just severely frustrated that HS still is not seeing the entire picture here. I understand that programming is difficult on the LML, but its not impossible since HS was able to crack it and build a comprehensive performance tune.
My point in this being a "simple fix" is in relative terms to building an entire program from scratch. Its obvious that the hiss is caused by the turbo veins, which in comparison to removing the emissions programming should be a "simple fix".

Can you get us a video side by side. Two trucks with identical hardware making different exhaust sounds? They should sound virtually identical. Every LML we have done here in house sounds the same as the next.

We see the entire picture, I can promise you that. Do you think for some reason we are holding back knowledge and technology? No, we would love to give you a solution right now to make you happy. But, we cannot, because there is NOT one available yet. Your desires are known and we are working towards something that will accomplish your goals. These things can take months, and even years. There is no way of predicting a software breakthrough when we are reverse engineering raw ECU code.

Please let me refresh my point. With the exact same components and tuning on a truck, one makes a hiss and the other does not.... That would not be an exhaust problem nor a muffler problem if each truck has the same components and one hiss's and the other does not.
Please don't get me wrong, I appreciate what HS does, and is doing. I am just severely frustrated that HS still is not seeing the entire picture here. I understand that programming is difficult on the LML, but its not impossible since HS was able to crack it and build a comprehensive performance tune.
My point in this being a "simple fix" is in relative terms to building an entire program from scratch. Its obvious that the hiss is caused by the turbo veins, which in comparison to removing the emissions programming should be a "simple fix".

I thought H&S new of your problem and it had something to do with the truck being stuck in Regen:confused::confused:

My truck is fully straight piped and I hear alot of hiss but who wouldn't? I don't know how someone can complain about this, if all you have is a open pipe from the turbo back then thats what its gonna sound like. If you want rumble then put a muffler/resonator on there.

Can you get us a video side by side. Two trucks with identical hardware making different exhaust sounds? They should sound virtually identical. Every LML we have done here in house sounds the same as the next.

We see the entire picture, I can promise you that. Do you think for some reason we are holding back knowledge and technology? No, we would love to give you a solution right now to make you happy. But, we cannot, because there is NOT one available yet. Your desires are known and we are working towards something that will accomplish your goals. These things can take months, and even years. There is no way of predicting a software breakthrough when we are reverse engineering raw ECU code.

I will do my best to get a side by side video for you if you think that will some way help in the diagnossis. However, I don't think so....Since I have already sent and posted a youtube video for you that shows the hiss and it going in and out (turning on and off), and one that is with the same exhaust but on the stock setting, I was hoping that would suffice. But... I guess not (hence my comment that HS doesn't understand). In the interim, please keep working diligently at the problem... Im not here to argue, and I understand that difficulty with the new system... I'm just a frustrated customer....
No hiss exhaust - YouTube Same exhaust on a Stock setting and NO HISS???
LML pictures 016 - YouTube Same exhaust on MM Hot setting... with the hiss

My truck is fully straight piped and I hear alot of hiss but who wouldn't? I don't know how someone can complain about this, if all you have is a open pipe from the turbo back then thats what its gonna sound like. If you want rumble then put a muffler/resonator on there.
If you had the sound of a jet engine in your driveway everyday then I think you would be complaining like I am. I dont think you understand how loud this hiss (jet engine) really is. The video doesn't do it justice at all. and, I do have a muffler....

I thought H&S new of your problem and it had something to do with the truck being stuck in Regen:confused::confused:
Yes that was the last word that I was told.... Haven t heard a word since....

I will do my best to get a side by side video for you if you think that will some way help in the diagnossis. However, I don't think so....Since I have already sent and posted a youtube video for you that shows the hiss and it going in and out (turning on and off), and one that is with the same exhaust but on the stock setting, I was hoping that would suffice. But... I guess not (hence my comment that HS doesn't understand). In the interim, please keep working diligently at the problem... Im not here to argue, and I understand that difficulty with the new system... I'm just a frustrated customer....
No hiss exhaust - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o72Uup8Blk) Same exhaust on a Stock setting and NO HISS???
LML pictures 016 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMkq34Jtc7Q) Same exhaust on MM Hot setting... with the hiss

My 04 LLY behaved very similar until I tuned the turbo vein position with EFI Live. I would say that is normal operation. ECM is likely creating a bit of back pressure with turbo to warm the engine up sooner.

I will do my best to get a side by side video for you if you think that will some way help in the diagnossis. However, I don't think so....Since I have already sent and posted a youtube video for you that shows the hiss and it going in and out (turning on and off), and one that is with the same exhaust but on the stock setting, I was hoping that would suffice. But... I guess not (hence my comment that HS doesn't understand). In the interim, please keep working diligently at the problem... Im not here to argue, and I understand that difficulty with the new system... I'm just a frustrated customer....
No hiss exhaust - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o72Uup8Blk) Same exhaust on a Stock setting and NO HISS???
LML pictures 016 - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMkq34Jtc7Q) Same exhaust on MM Hot setting... with the hiss

In stock setting with an aftermarket exhaust, your ECU is going nuts. There are numerous reasons why the exhaust will take on a different note when multiple diagnostics checks are failing and defaulting to a base calibration value. Stock tuning with that many errors will almost always default the turbo vanes to 0% closed for protective purposes.

The verification that your truck does indeed sound different does not help the diagnostics process directly. But it does give us a base line of some control factors and variables that could possibly be different between the two vehicles. The first step to finding a solution is understanding the problem fully. At first we assumed that your truck was doing something different than others. But now, the possibility could be that your truck is acting identical to others, but your interpretation of the symptoms are different than others.

We will continue to look for a workable solution to create a "rumble" idle like is obtainable on the LMM. Our goals are to make it sound just as you have noticed when running stock tuning and an aftermarket exhaust system. It emits that nice throaty growl.... :D

Yes that was the last word that I was told.... Haven t heard a word since....

From your original observations and reports, we were lead to believe something was different with your truck. But after further review, we have found that the symptoms your truck exhibits is normal for the LML Duramax. Thanks for your patience.

If you had the sound of a jet engine in your driveway everyday then I think you would be complaining like I am. I dont think you understand how loud this hiss (jet engine) really is. The video doesn't do it justice at all. and, I do have a muffler....

I said I'm straight piped how would I not understand? My truck probably has more hiss than yours since I have no muffler. I just don't see alot of options, it has a turbo so you will hear it. My buddies 6.0 Powerstroke has the same jet engine sound as mine so its not something thats just the LML.

I said I'm straight piped how would I not understand? My truck probably has more hiss than yours since I have no muffler. I just don't see alot of options, it has a turbo so you will hear it. My buddies 6.0 Powerstroke has the same jet engine sound as mine so its not something thats just the LML.
My point is my truck, with a muffler, is 3-5x louder than any other LML or straight piped diesel, ranging from old to new (except for they guy with the 6.0 powerstroke with a cherry bomb on down the street)...What I am experiencing is not normal. I agree my options are limited for the time being until another tuner is released, or HS is able to solve the problem. I do appreciate your comments and your opinion though...

From your original observations and reports, we were lead to believe something was different with your truck. But after further review, we have found that the symptoms your truck exhibits is normal for the LML Duramax. Thanks for your patience.
Excuse me... What were you "lead to believe"?...... What I have said and what I have posted is nothing new....Same stuff, same problems.
If my symptom is "normal", then why are there so many other people calling HS, and emailing me with the same problem after I started a thread on this site???
Why does the sound clip of the HS exhaust on your site not hiss and go in and out like mine since this is "normal"....
Once again, as a customer, I am telling you I have a problem... From your quoted post above, you have proved my point that you are not listening to what I am saying.

My point is my truck, with a muffler, is 3-5x louder than any other LML or straight piped diesel, ranging from old to new (except for they guy with the 6.0 powerstroke with a cherry bomb on down the street)...What I am experiencing is not normal. I agree my options are limited for the time being until another tuner is released, or HS is able to solve the problem. I do appreciate your comments and your opinion though...

Maybe take DB reading from other trucks to compare?? I dunno, nobody I know has a Dmax with aftermarket exhaust so maybe mine is louder than it should be. Mine was alot quieter with the cat installed tho and alot less hiss.

I am going to try and find a DB reader this weekend. My LMM had a hiss as the turbo veins rotated, but was nothing at all like this hissing LML. I understand that there will be some hiss, but this is not normal. I will try and find a DB reader to get some actual numbers to further show what is going on.

I wonder who the one single engineer is thats actually doing all of H&S/Bullydog's tuning? My guess is its either someone from GM Powertrain who wants to make some cash on the side, or some guy contracted out from europe who already has experience with the EDC17 controller. :)

I wonder who the one single engineer is thats actually doing all of H&S/Bullydog's tuning? My guess is its either someone from GM Powertrain who wants to make some cash on the side, or some guy contracted out from europe who already has experience with the EDC17 controller. :)

How many times have I said to come by our facility and SEE WHO IS REALLY DOING THE TUNING? Seriously its getting old. Either put up or shut up, it is really that simple. Every time you have said we "cant" do something, we do it. I would love for you to come by our shop, but I doubt you have the courage to admit you are wrong after you see what we do. You are a hide behind a keyboard kind of guy, so I don't expect to see you anytime soon. We have no reason to BS anyone, we will be here a long time. Take your attitude somewhere else Ben.

How many times have I said to come by our facility and SEE WHO IS REALLY DOING THE TUNING? Seriously its getting old. Either put up or shut up, it is really that simple.

Put up or shut up what? I dont tune LML's and I never claimed I did. Not sure what you're getting at.

Every time you have said we "cant" do something, we do it. I would love for you to come by our shop, but I doubt you have the courage to admit you are wrong after you see what we do. You are a hide behind a keyboard kind of guy, so I don't expect to see you anytime soon.

Or, its because I live on the other fking side of the country dumbass. :rolleyes:

SO I guess you'll just have to post a picture of you doing your thing with an LML ECM all taken apart on the bench, and you with a computer that has some fancy hex editor software on the screen.

Come on casey. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. :p: :D

I have no idea where you live, but the offer is always on the table to come visit. Put up or shut up means you have been offered to see the inner workings of what we do, and if you don't want to take us up on that, shut up.

Name-calling just shows how ignorant and childish you really are.

I just wish your tunes would really make "solid" power.... Honesty the best tune is the dpf present "wild" tune all of the dpf delete tunes are terrible they lose rail so bad .... And I dont want to hear the pumps are weak.... Because ive seen many weak non lift pump cp3 trucks make 450hp... And I am sorry but this is not even close...

I just wish your tunes would really make "solid" power.... Honesty the best tune is the dpf present "wild" tune all of the dpf delete tunes are terrible they lose rail so bad .... And I dont want to hear the pumps are weak.... Because ive seen many weak non lift pump cp3 trucks make 450hp... And I am sorry but this is not even close...

H&S made 507rwhp "dyno verified" on their LML, so your truck must be broken if it feels weaker than a 450rwhp 2001-2010 truck. :D

I just wish your tunes would really make "solid" power.... Honesty the best tune is the dpf present "wild" tune all of the dpf delete tunes are terrible they lose rail so bad .... And I dont want to hear the pumps are weak.... Because ive seen many weak non lift pump cp3 trucks make 450hp... And I am sorry but this is not even close...

The CP4.2 puts out LESS fuel than any of the previous DURAMAX's as far as displacement goes, but it DOES put out higher pressures which is what GM wanted for emissions reasons. This was discussed before the LML trucks were even available for sale here on this forum. The LML will not be able to supply the fuel that an LMM or LBZ could stock for stock, just aint gonna happen. I'm not trying to defend H&S here, just stating what has been discussed here in depth in the past.

I just wish your tunes would really make "solid" power.... Honesty the best tune is the dpf present "wild" tune all of the dpf delete tunes are terrible they lose rail so bad .... And I dont want to hear the pumps are weak.... Because ive seen many weak non lift pump cp3 trucks make 450hp... And I am sorry but this is not even close...

The LML uses the new CP4 version, which can deliver considerably less fuel volume.

So what you guys are saying is we need to pull a pump/cp4 off a LML and have it Mod'd so it can supply more fuel or do they just need a lift pump? I personaly don't want one unless they can make 500+ hp at the wheels. My gf's needs something to wake hers up but for $900-$1000 I'd sure like to see more than a 120hp tune.

Some people will never be happy and others will always be right :rolleyes: ;).

So what you guys are saying is we need to pull a pump/cp4 off a LML and have it Mod'd so it can supply more fuel or do they just need a lift pump? I personaly don't want one unless they can make 500+ hp at the wheels. My gf's needs something to wake hers up but for $900-$1000 I'd sure like to see more than a 120hp tune.

Some people will never be happy and others will always be right :rolleyes: ;).

That's what H&S is telling us.

This is sort of a rookie question but whats the difference between adding a lift pump or having a larger CP4/3?

This is sort of a rookie question but whats the difference between adding a lift pump or having a larger CP4/3?


CP4 is the high pressure pump that supplies fuel to the injector. Not sure what the PSI is on the new ones but Id guess upwards of 28000.

A lift pump delivers fuel from the tank to the CP4 or 3 depending what year truck you have. Generally 12-13 psi is max on it as anymore will damage the FIM.

So are we in agreement that a lift pump would do nothing for the problem or would if help slightly?

I would think it would... But I don't know. This is a good question...

A lift pump isnt going to hurt.

We have not tried it on an LML yet, but I would be willing to sell someone a lift pump at a deeply discounted price if you want to give it a try and post the results here. Let me know if you are interested.

Now if I could just convince the gf I need to put one on her truck :D

We have not tried it on an LML yet, but I would be willing to sell someone a lift pump at a deeply discounted price if you want to give it a try and post the results here. Let me know if you are interested.