HHO kits [Archive] - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

: HHO kits


hotdmax05
08-21-2011, 11:46 PM
has anyone tried or installed one on their dmax, and if so did you see an improvement in fuel mileage or have any pros or cons in doing so.

jon5212
08-23-2011, 09:07 AM
Don't waste your time or money on it.

TheBestHHO
11-17-2011, 01:27 AM
Here is a story from Sand Sport Magazine (http://thebesthho.com/files/Sand%20Sport%20Article%20Jan%202011.pdf). You can clearly see the huge improvements they received from the HHO unit they are using.

GoneNomad
11-17-2011, 02:44 AM
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/alternative-fuel/gas-mileage/4276846

But according to this, it's not the energy in the hydrogen that makes the (claimed) difference, but the fact that hydrogen injection allows beneficial changes to be made to the fuel injection (leaning out the mixture more than is possible without hydrogen)
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/savefuel.html
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/May%202007.html

I had always assumed hydrogen production & injection would necessarily have a negative energy balance.
This is discussed here: http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/hydrogeninjection.html
"To best describe how Hydrogen Enhanced Combustion works, we are providing this excerpt from a University Technical Report, written by Mr. George Vosper, P.Eng.;
...a Hydrogen Generating System (HGS) for trucks or cars has been on the market for some time. Mounted on a vehicle, it feeds small amounts of hydrogen and oxygen into the engine’s air intake. Its makers claim savings in fuel, reduced noxious and greenhouse gases and increased power. The auto industry is not devoid of hoaxes and as engineers are skeptics by training, it is no surprise that a few of them say the idea won’t work. Such opinions, from engineers can’t be dismissed without explaining why I think these Hydrogen Generating Systems do work and are not just another hoax. The 2nd law of thermodynamics is a likely source of those doubts. Meaning ...the law would lead you to believe that it will certainly take more power to produce this hydrogen than can be regained by burning it in the engine. i.e. the resulting energy balance should be negative. If the aim is to create hydrogen by electrolysis to be burned as a fuel, the concept is ridiculous. On the other hand, if hydrogen, shortens the burn time of the main fuel-air mix, putting more pressure on the piston through a longer effective power stroke, and in doing so takes more work out, then this system does make sense. "

__________________________________________________ _____________

Without verified test results conducted and/or presented by someone other than a seller of HHO systems, I remain skeptical. I have to believe that given the CAFE pressure that manufacturers are under, and given that we see all sorts of other complex things tacked on (like DPFs & urea injection), surely if there was a way to make HHO injection work, at least one auto manufacturer would have at least a prototype running around with an HHO generator. As far as I know, there are none.

TheBestHHO
11-17-2011, 03:45 AM
The company I represent is currently working with a large auto maker and has had great results. As soon as the testing is complete we will have their endorsement. What I can tell you is they are getting over 23% increase in fuel mileage. Ronn Motors (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:Ronn_Motors'_Scorpion_using_Hydrogen_Boost er)a publicly traded eco car manufacturer is producing a car with HHO. We also have testing that is being done by the University of New Hampshire (http://extension.unh.edu/marine/Green-FitExperiments.htm)

jon5212
11-17-2011, 07:58 AM
^^^ Until you can make large quantities of HHO on the fly without using a LOT of power it is still hogwash... I don't need a university of tree huggers to teach me that.

Now when you are able to make a large quantity of the fuel with little to no power consumption then I'll take a look... but thats not going to happen anywhere in the near future.

Diesel Tech
11-17-2011, 12:09 PM
I did a fair amount of testing years back on these and the long term results were not good at all. The new (first put on)system worked and showed nice gains but after a few months the HHO production dropped to the point that it had a negative effect. Now maybe they have gotten the cells working better but until they can show steady output over extend time periods the cost of the kits added to the short lived time span makes it a waste of time and money.

How come the major car company article you show is from 2008? Also if you dig a little deeper into Ronn Motor literature they have the following quote:

"Note about Hydrorunner

Note: Initially, Ronn Motors was going to use/modify a hydrogen boost system developed by HydroRunner, but Damon Kuhn, COO of Ronn Motors said they were not able to adequately test the HydroRunner system and that they are developing their own hydrogen boost system. (Aug. 18, 2008)"

GoneNomad
11-17-2011, 02:00 PM
The article at the site I linked above
http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/savefuel.html
mentions making a lot of changes to alter the stock fuel management, supposedly to accomplish more benefit that what is possible just from the energy in the hydrogen. But what does it take to make all those changes? See the section I made bold. Sounds very experimental to me.

excerpt:

Running an ordinary engine with an ultra-lean air/fuel mixture is the job of the Hydrogen Boost system. Everything possible must be done to prepare the mixture to combust. The fuel heater heats the gasoline to the highest possible temperature without causing vapor problems within the fuel injection system, so that when the hot fuel is injected, more of it will vaporize. The fuel vaporizing system (usually hot fuel returning to the fuel tank) vaporizes more fuel that is brought to the engine through the evaporative emissions control system. This combination vaporizes as much fuel as possible to prepare it for combustion (liquid fuel does not combust until it is vaporized, either in the combustion chamber or before it gets there). The hydrogen injection accelerates ignition of the vaporized fuel when the spark plug fires, similar to the way lighter fluid accelerates the lighting of barbeque briquettes. This forces the ultra-lean air/fuel mixture to ignite when normally this lean of a mixture would simply misfire.

To create the desired ultra-lean air/fuel mixture in a fuel injected engine the electronic control circuit of the Hydrogen Boost system does two things. First it “kills the stoichiometric police” by disconnecting the oxygen sensor mandated by the government to guarantee a stoichiometric mixture (no excess oxygen or fuel going out the exhaust pipe). Secondly it modifies the signal from the MAF (mass air flow) or MAP (manifold absolute pressure) sensor going to the ECU (engine control unit) or PCM (power control module) thereby telling the engine computer that less air is present than there really is. This causes the computer to demand less fuel to be injected into the engine and therefore a leaner mixture. The electronic control circuit can be adjusted on the fly from the driver’s seat and in response to the feel of the engine’s performance. The mixture is usually set at the leanest mixture that enables a smooth power output. This ultra-lean mixture also keeps the combustion temperature down to a point where NOx (nitrogen oxides) emissions are avoided.

The permanent engine treatment component of the Hydrogen Boost system reduces friction and drag inside the engine, which further increases the engine’s efficiency. And another component of the Hydrogen Boost system, the Scangauge, helps the driver monitor his mileage and helps him learn more efficient driving techniques.

Hydrogen injection in a diesel engine can, however, cause an increase in efficiency (amount of work done per unit of fuel combusted) because compression ignition is already a stressed combustion condition that benefits with hydrogen injection. However the fuel heater and permanent engine treatment components of the Hydrogen Boost system give additional improvements.

Lastly the latest addition to the Hydrogen Boost system, in both gasoline and diesel systems, a manifold vacuum switch (pressure switch for turbocharged diesel engines) is used to turn off the Hydrogen Generator component of the Hydrogen Boost system, whenever the cost of producing the hydrogen is not outweighed by the benefits. At idle and low cruise power settings the benefits of hydrogen injection are minimal because there is little fuel being combusted.

TheBestHHO
11-22-2011, 02:37 AM
All kits are not the same. There are a lot of manufacturers that should not be in business. There is more to HHO than stainless steel plates, baking soda, and 12V current. The plates need to be conditioned properly in order to not have them degrade and lose efficiency. You also need to flush the system periodically to keep the plates clean.

It appears to me that Ronn Motors is doing just what the article states and developing their own cel. I don't know much about the vehicle just whats on the web.

As to making hydrogen without a large amount of power consumption is easy with our pulse width modulator.