oil pan 4
08-02-2011, 07:45 PM
I have been wanting to harnes CNG for years but cant get around the $3,500 boost compressor needed to bring the gas pressure up to the extreme pressure needed to get a good volume of gas crammed in the small space of the cylinder.
http://www.gas-tec.com/products_5.html
For get about the cylinder charger price ($4,700+), I can build my own.
Is any one running these types of cylinders?
custom1000
08-10-2011, 01:06 AM
I've also been looking into this for some time and the size and cost of the tanks have been the primary reason for not pulling the trigger. Looks like the largest tank they offer is 49"L x 12"D and holds 19GGE (if the volume capacity they claim is @275psi). That's approximately double the fuel capacity of a comparably sized 3600psi CNG tank.
I guess the space issue may have been solved for me. Now there is the question of cost. Do you have any info on price?
oil pan 4
08-10-2011, 06:19 PM
The tanks weren't too bad.
http://www.gas-tec.com/purchase.html#BuyCylinder
The big tank, roughly the size of a 100 gallon propane cylinder is $600.
The refueler is very expensive, $4500. But since the gas only needs to be pressureized to 275psi I could build my own compressor using a high quality R-22 compressor and off the shelf parts.
It has been done before.
When I add up the volume times BTUs, 130 cubic feet times 1,000BTUs for each cubic foot I only get 130,000 BTU. Almost as much energy found in 1 gallon of diesel fuel.
I am not sure what the price of natural gas is now but if its $4/therm (1millionBTU) then it would cost 52 cents to fill that 130 cubic foot tank, if gas prices are real high say $10/therm then it will cost $1.30 to fill that tank.
This natural gas stuff is so expensive because they know the buyer can save a ton of money over time going with natural gas Vs. propane or Acetlyene.
That is, if you are a high volume user.
custom1000
08-11-2011, 09:52 PM
1000 BTUs per cubic foot is at atmospheric pressure. I would think they are reporting their capacity with the gas compressed at 275psi - as it would be in the tank. That would be 19 Gas Gallon Equivalents(GGE) @ 114,000 btu/GGE or 2,166,000 btu in a tank.
If it is only 130,000 btu per tank (barely more than 1GGE) you won't get too far down the road.
I wouldn't have to compress my own as I have numerous CNG fill stations in every direction from my home @ only $1.20 a GGE, but I would build my own if it could be done cheaply. I will have to see if these tanks could be filled safely from the fill stations 3600psi storage tanks.
oil pan 4
08-13-2011, 06:25 PM
Capacity - 130 cubic feet
Height (with cap) - 48.5”
Diameter - 12”
Weight - 130 LB
CGA 510 female valve
http://www.gas-tec.com/cylinders.html
That is too bad, I believe it means it can hold 130 cubic feet of gas total. Internal volume is only a few cubic feet.
That is too bad I had hoped this would give allow for cheap gas compression and easy storage of a lot of gas.
GoneNomad
11-20-2011, 06:19 PM
Capacity - 130 cubic feet
Height (with cap) - 48.5”
Diameter - 12”
Weight - 130 LB
CGA 510 female valve
http://www.gas-tec.com/cylinders.html
That is too bad, I believe it means it can hold 130 cubic feet of gas total. Internal volume is only a few cubic feet.
That is too bad I had hoped this would give allow for cheap gas compression and easy storage of a lot of gas.
Right, the volume of that NG-130 tank itself is a little over 3 cubic feet, or about 22.5 US gallons.
It holds 130CF of natural gas, about 130,000 Btu, about the same as a gallon of diesel fuel. That's a mighty heavy tank to hold so little energy.
Natural gas compressed to 3,600psi is about 39,000 Btu per gallon of tank capacity, requiring about 3.4 gallons to roughly equal a gallon of diesel fuel.
Natural gas compressed to 3,600psi is a little over 50,000 Btu per gallon of tank capacity, requiring about 2.6 gallons to roughly equal a gallon of diesel fuel.
So those adsorbed tanks hold 15% (1/6.6) as much energy as a similar sized 3600psi CNG tank.
Given that the pressure ratio between 3600psi and 275psi is 13:1, they are about twice as space efficient as a straight compressed tank.
In other words, an 1800psi adsorbed tank might hold about the same as a 3600psi straight compressed tank.
Maybe somebody else makes higher pressure adsorbed tanks?
oil pan 4
12-11-2011, 02:41 PM
Well I made it to newmexico and natural gas is very cheap but diesel is pretty expensive usually over $4 a gallon.
Unfortunatly I have not seen any higher pressure absorbed tanks. These canadians are the only ones I could find offering anything like this.
Is there any possibility of converting a high pressure empty volume tank to a high pressure gas absorbing tank?
marcdeluca
04-02-2012, 10:37 PM
The adsorbant saturates at 500 psi. The tank will not hold any more gas if you go higher in pressure. The advantage is that it will hold the same amount of gas at 500 psi as a tank without adsorbant will hold at 3500 psi. It's all about low pressure, not increased storage. It also requires very pure gas. The adsorbant will retain propane, butane, and other components which reduce refill capacity. The tank has to be heated to drive out the heavier components.