I am planning to build an automatic Biodiesel Processor. You feed used unfiltered vegetable oil, methoanol and lye on one end and the other end good quality biodiesel comes out with glecerine as by product? I have designed many manufacturing machines and plants and making a highly sophisticated biodiesel processor is not really difficult. The only thing is, the initial price of these machines may reach as high as $10,000+. So, few people have to share the cost.

The machine I am envisioning will do automatic titration, control methanol and lye flow, automatically filter water, recycle methanol, separate water glycerine and biodiesel automatically. The operator simply have to make sure that the input containers are full. There will be no need for the operator to even wear gloves. If needed, I can also make the machine that will fill a 10 gallon container and seal it automatically by the robot.

If I see a lot of interest in it, then it would be worth to take the project in hand. But I need help from all people around to make this decision.

My question to this forum is
(1) How much are you willing to pay for such a machine?
(2) If the price is too expensive, would you share the cost with someone else?
(3) Do you think that developing a machine like this is a good idea?

Wien

Only problem from what I have seen is that separating the water isn't easy

I am VERY interested... Please PM me.

I dont know.....I think Ide rather do a titration to save 10 grand.........

You are discounting the fact that the folks that want to run the BD are not the ones that would go out and plunk $10,000 out for a machine that could take 5 years to pay itself off.

I know 10 grand is way too much for one person, but consider the fact that if 10 of you pay 1 grand each and buy one of these and share the production, then doesnt' it look cost effective?

WB

Ya, maybe COOP it out.

Your project might be aimed more to farmers, small trucking companies, people who run bulldozers and road graters, etc., who may run through $10,000 or more in diesel a year. Then the investment makes a lot of sense. These are also the people who are really feeling the bite of skyrocketing fuel prices and are scrambling for alternatives. For example, I run an 800 acre farm and we went through about $7000 in off-road diesel last year. If fuel prices double, we'll have to do something drastic.

I'm definitely interested to see what you can come up with.

-Oso

The only thing is, the initial price of these machines may reach as high as $10,000+.....

I can see a need and even a market.... I would say it might have to be something that could be financed, like a truck ;), but very doable...

PM me I'd like to hear what you have in mind....

What size of batches are you thinking about doing?

I'm currently working on a 500 gallon per batch processor.

As someone else said, it needs to be aimed at those who use a lot of diesel.

In our organization we burned ~30,000 gallons of offroad diesel last year and probably a similar amount of road diesel. So I see the savings of making my own fuel pretty quick. I think the expensive part of the whole thing is going to be procurement of oil and then the wildcard... Washington Department of Ecology.

Basically, its a small production machine controlled by computers. It will generate and generate and generate. But the actual size of the reaction chamber will be 1 gallon. What this basically mean, is that after filtration of WVO, and methanol and lye are mixed at exact proportions after electronic titration analysis, the main reaction will take place in a 1 (ONE) gallon reaction chamber. The speed of reaction can be easily expedited by injection of hot air at jet speed mixed with the fluid in the chamber. The complete reaction will be monitored by electronic densitometers and resistivity sensors. Reaction completion may be electronically determined by taking samples of chemical resistivity and applying signal processing algorithms on densitometric samples. Once the reaction is complete, the mixture will be separated using high speed centrifuges, which will be basically the same chamber.

Basically, one is looking at production rate of 1 Gallon per 10-30 minutes. But it is very difficult to come up with a good timing estimate, however. The reason the reaction chamber is so small is because things get quite expensive if you increase the size of these things. At this rate and continuous operation, the machine will generate about 2-3 gallons per hour, or 50-70 gallons a day, 500 gallons a week, 2000 gallons a month.

Wien

with manny, used water heater system and hand calculate,mix chems. i think you could produce 2-300 gallons a week. personnaly computers, variable rate feed pump (lye mixed with water to pump, water quality?) air pump for injection. lots of maintenance and obervation for proper operation from my experience and trained personnel. need to expect payroll and repair/replacement cost and initial material costs. pickup/delivery of source product and solid waste fees. gotta be aware going in.

New products are always like that. This is the reason, this kind of ideas are go or no-go type, based on feedback from many different people. Thanks for sharing yours.

Wien.

I burn on avg 150 gallons of diesel a month and avg for a year 1200-1400 gallons of fuel oil.....

so on avg I use 250 gallons/month and at current prices it's close to $650-$700/month......

If I look at the breakdown of fuel at $3.00/gallon and heating oil at $2.29/gallon increasing every year I can myself getting a return on the investment sooner than others would.

The only problem I see is availability of the WVO........

What would a kit like this cost to run as far as electricity, how much space would it need............and what parts might have to be replaced due to the chemicals ?????

What if any byproducts have to be disposed of as well..........

I have several contractors that also run heavy equipment and my brother-in-law runs 3 diesel lawn tractors 6 days a week, so we could conceivably split the costs of a system....

Let me know what the deal is please,

Thanks,

T:cool: NY

Dmax,
>> The only problem I see is availability of the WVO........
WVO is available for free in large cities with lots of fast food. I know that you can get is very quickly in the LA area, just by phone call. You really do not need WVO, if you have other fat rich sources, for example animal fat.

>>What would a kit like this cost to run as far as electricity, how much space would
>>it need............and what parts might have to be replaced due to the chemicals
>>?????
In terms of space, it will depend on the input containers and output containers. But the machine itself, without the container can easily fit on the back of a truck and may be powerd by a truck battery. In fact, I like to make the machine small enough to carry it at the back of a truck so that you can produce biodiesel on the go.

>>What if any byproducts have to be disposed of as well..........
Most by-products will be recycled, nothing will be thrown away. Glycerine may be sent to Soap, medicine, cosmetics makers. If in the future, diesel engines are designed to burn glycerin, then you may use it as a fuel as well (not now please). Glycerin coming out of WVO are 100% bio-degradable. That means you can just throw them away out in your yard and nature will absorb it over some period of time. MY REQUEST: Please do not send your glycerin by-product to to Department of Defense, because they will make bombs out of it. Didn't we had enough with the war?

>>I have several contractors that also run heavy equipment and my brother-in-law
>>runs 3 diesel lawn tractors 6 days a week, so we could conceivably split the costs
>>of a system....
This automatic biodiesel processor is right for people who is willing to share with others. As far as maintenance is concerned, the electronic chemical resistivity sensors may need annual inspection and may be replaced. If used in continuous operation mode, then the machine also needs frequent filter changes and cleaning.

Wien.

WVO is available for free in large cities with lots of fast food. I know that you can get is very quickly in the LA area, just by phone call
Wien.

I have lots of Chinese food joints around my house, but if I could just make a call and pick as much as I want when I want that would be way better! So who should I call?!?!

When you call, they usually tell you when to come, based on availability and disposal needs.

Wein,
Have you ever made BD before? Not all WVO is usable. I tried Wendy's and the titration is so high. Test batches made soap. The oil is so clean but over used. I have a supplier I get about 70 gallons a month, I use 8 grams lye for every batch. No more titration. They fill 15 gallon drums and the crud fall to the bottom, I never filter and react in a static mixer I made from glass marbles. The only problem is in settling and washing.
The processor I made cost about a Grand. 55 gallon pre heater, 85 gallon reaction vessel and 110 gallon wash/dryer tank. Cost about .70 gallon

Thats it in a nut shell.

Biodiesel66,

I am a researcher and made biodiesel from WVO in a test tube and small chemical containers. I have used heavily used WVO and also little used WVO. The truth is, the ester (diesel) content do not change by overusing WVO. Your processor generated soap because of uncontrolled reaction. Overused WVO has impurities added from food. You cannot take the impurities out by adding just more NaOH, instead you need to find the new balance point of the reaction with impurities and let the reaction happen under controlled environment in a small chamber rather than a huge water heater. As the reaction take place, use resistivity sensors and densitometers to determine the point when the reaction is complete.

If you do not do it, you will get soap. In a large water heater, reaction is not uniform unless you have a stirrer in them and watch the reaction closely. In a small chamber, the reaction is expected to be uniform.

Wien.

Hmmm... Lots of success with the water heaters. If you haven't used 'em or even made a large batch or more than a few test tubes full how am I supposed to view your writings as credible?

I'm not trying to be an ass about it, I would really like to know.

Wholly,

I am not against water heaters. I'm more interested on building a machine that is designed to produce Biodiesel. Small experiments gives us knowledge about large experiments. So, making biodiesel in beakers will give us knowledge of what to do if we want to do the same in a large containers. Thanks.

I am very interested in a self contained system. I would like to not have to rely on anyone for my fuel. Please keep me posted.Steve

great idea, however, the reason i use bio is because its cheap ( like me )
if someone could afford 10,000,000,000,000,0000,0000000 buzamillion bucks for a processer, we really would not be bothered by 3 dollar / gal diesel

I assure you that the price wont be that much.

Im in the process of building a simple 55 gal, cone bottom processer, my self, if I pay myself 15 bucks per hour, with all the parts it gonna run somewhere in the 500 dollar range. I have asked several people that also make their own bio about that price and the say, man thats to much !, Just my thoughts, I think its a great idea, and very cool if it can do all of that, just cant seem to figure out who would purchase it, co op mabee ?

Thanks Rick

Im in the process of building a simple 55 gal, cone bottom processer, my self, if I pay myself 15 bucks per hour, with all the parts it gonna run somewhere in the 500 dollar range. I have asked several people that also make their own bio about that price and the say, man thats to much !, Just my thoughts, I think its a great idea, and very cool if it can do all of that, just cant seem to figure out who would purchase it, co op mabee ?

Thanks Rick

I disagree with your buddies. I have been looking around and if it's a good processor, $500 isn't outrageous.

I'll second guybb's comment.... If your processor included everything necessary, I would probably buy one next week!!! (conical processor, pump, all piping and fittings, heater mechanism and mixing tank) assuming I would need to furnish my own storage containers.

What would the bio production rate be??

Cheers.