I've been doing a fair amount of reading and it seems the more I read the more confused I get. Is there anybody on the forum that is making a home brew Biodeisel and what is the estimated cost per gallon? I'm tired of depending on people who hate me for my fuel.

TIA
Rich.

I dont think anyone homebrews on here.

http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x

Thats the big time homebrewer place.

I am --> <-- this close to taking the plunge. I am not going to buy one of those $3000 rigs, but will probably rig up what is called an 'appleseed' rig to convert WVO. I figure I can get started for $600 or so with a new water heater. I just have to figure out where I am going to put it all.

I built myself an appleseed processor a couple of months ago, and I've been running my homebrew in my Duramax at varying blends, all the way up to 100. I wash and dry it thoroughly and filter it to 2 microns before it gets in my truck. It runs great so far (around 1100 miles so far).
Your costs per gallon, assuming you can mooch your oil for free, and disregarding equipment costs, depend mainly on the price you're paying for methanol. I was buying my methanol from a local race shop for around $3.90 a gal, then I got the number of a guy who sells 50 gal drums direct for around $150, then someone at the race shop gave me an old drum that had absorbed too much water for racing, but made some beautiful BD. So the price you'll pay may vary widely.
Generally, you can estimate your cost per gallon of BD as 20% of your Methanol cost, plus maybe 5 cents for Lye and another few cents for electricity. So, if you're paying $3.50/gal for Methanol, figger mabee $.80 to $1 per gallon, plus a considerable amount of your time. So don't do it just to save money, it's not worth it. If you can appreciate all the other benefits of BD, it'll be worth it.

I had no idea someone on here did this!

Good for you yosoyoso.

So don't do it just to save money, it's not worth it.

It'd be worth it to me to not give my money to the big oil companies and the arabs who want to kill me. Censoreders

Yosoyoso..........Could you share the source of Methanol for $150 / barrel, please...
I'm in Dallas and looking for a source........I'll be brewing soon if I can get the Methanol. My e-mail is jimburns00@yahoo.com
Thanks!

jim where in Dallas? How far have you gotten on your way to making bio? I'm up in Plano and have been thinking about doing this for a while now.

TXMudder.....I'm out to the East.............I have a hay field in VanZandt county I'm gettiong ready to cut hay again.....this fuel cost is killing us. I've got some of the parts together, and 1 restaurant source so far, need some more wvo sources.......I found Methanol in Dallas for 2.60 / gal ini 55 gal. drum plus drum deposit and Hazmat fees.
How about you?

Now all my Texas brothers need to share their sources...we are in this together. I will pass on any info I get as I am taking the plunge very soon. If anyone is in/near Watauga, I would be happy to help share the work and expense if they are already producing. I'll find my own WVO. When gas is $4.00 a gallon, $1.00 for a gallon of B100 and some time is going to look mighty good.

I am up in the Plano area. Been entertaining making home brew for years now, just never got it off the ground.

Well now I've got some more questions.

Yosoyoso,

By reading your reply I'm assuming it takes rouphly 1 gallon of methanol to make 5 gallons of BD. Is this correct?

You referred to your system as an Appleseed. Agian I'm assuming you built your own system. If so did you keep a log of what was needed to build it?

How do you dewater your fuel. Heat? If so how long and with what?

I've gone to a couple of other sites but even biodeisel.org wasn't to helpful. I may have been looking in the wrong section though.

Can you point us in the right direction to build and process our own kits and fuel?

I've got so many questions I don't even know where to start. I've looked into the Freedomfuels kit and it's pretty expensive.

Lastly you mentioned it was time consuming. How long do you think it takes you to make a batch of say a 55 gal drum?

Thanks for any input you can provide.

Later
Rich.

I found this site helpful.

http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/mainpage/

TexMudder:

You're probably 20 minutes or so away. I'll let you know when I get the setup done and you can check it out.

MannyTranny - Thanks for the props. I agree with what you've been saying about supporting BD at the pumps to help its popularity and availability to the general public. It would also be nice to buy BD that I know has been tested and spec'd. I just don't have a source like that anywhere near me, although it probably won't be too long. I was real nervous starting out, especially knowing how sensitive the Duramax is to water and impurities, but it just keeps purring on the stuff, so I'm getting more and more confident.

JimBurns (and other TXns) - My source for methanol was Keith at Edge Performance Fuels at 830-560-1690. $3.00 per gallon in drums. I know he sells at the race tracks outside San Antonio, I don't know about elsewhere.

BigBlockQuad - Yes, I add 1 gal methanol to 5 gal oil, and I end up with about 5 gal BD. KartAttack beat me to the website reference on the appleseed processor. That's where I got a bunch of my info from. They have parts lists there for what you'll need, but I just went ahead and bought the kit from www.B100Supply.com that had all the plumbing and pump needed to convert my water heater, and I was quite pleased with it. The price of the kit was close to what you'd pay sourcing all that stuff yourself anyway. I didn't keep a log, but one good site is http://www.riverstonesbiodiesel.com/appleseed/index.php where they show lots of pictures and details of the setup. It looks more complicated than it really is.
So far I've been dewatering my fuel in an open 55 gal drum by bubbling water through it. The more it's been washed, the quicker it dries, and in the hot, dry Texas summer I've had no problems. When it gets cooler and more humid, I may have to add heat or circulate it through a spray head.
As far as the time commitment, I've been spending more time than I need to on it because it's fun and I'm still learning and trying to fine tune my setup. Once I get it all set up right, I figure it'll take me 2-3 hours total labor time to process, wash, and dry a batch, not including collecting the oil. Maybe less.

Kartattack,

Thanks for the site.

I'm brewing at home in Palo Alto, CA, basic Appleseed reactor design,
various wierd tricks and experiments in washing.
We get methanol from a race car fuel distributor in 16 gallons drums for about $2.20/gallon, and KOH in 50 lb bags for about $1.20/lb. So, cost of finished biod
is about 50cents/gallon. When I get methanol distillation recovery working, it should
lower the cost 15cents or so.

The big producers call their business a methanol management process, that's
the main cost control item.

Drying the fuel is paramount. Use water separation filters at the end of the process,
and install a good one, like Racor, in the car.

skk
'97 6.5td suburban
/83 300D

Yosoyoso,

Thanks for the info. Very helpful.

Stukriet,

Also thanks for the info. It's greatly appreciated.

If you don't mind though I do have a couple more questions though. So far I've looked through a couple Biodiesel sites and they haven't really discussed filtration. I keep seeing filtering down to 2 microns. How is this accomplished.

Also can someone please describe "Bubbling" to me. I gather it's a form of drying the oil but how is it done. It's still kinda confusing.

Later
Rich.

I filter by running the BD through a whole-house water filter, like the kind you might find under someone's sink, and a water-separating fuel filter. I got the whole-house filter at Lowe's.

To bubble dry I have an aquarium pump that pumps air bubbles through my washed BD. This is to circulate and increase the amount of BD that comes into contact with air, which will allow it to dry more quickly. (Sorry I wrote that I bubble "water" through it earlier, can't seem to edit that out right now.)

By the way, for those who may start homebrewing (and I recommend that you do), be careful of the kinds of plastic you may use with BD. I bought a cheap little aquarium airstone at WalMart for bubble drying, but the plastic dissolved and ruined a batch. I had to make one out of a big pill bottle with little holes punched in it. It's HDPE, which seems to hold up fine.

-Oso

Ok, I'm rather ignorant on the whole WVO/BioDiesel thing, so bear with me.

How big of an area do you need for the whole kit? Do you have it outdoors, or indoors. Could you do it in your back yard, does it require a field, or could do it in your garage?

I imagine you'd need the water heater to be specifically for creating biodiesel, and not for anything else... like heating water, right? Does it matter if it's a gas or electric heater? Does the size of the heater matter - or can I use one of those little apartment sized heaters?

It pry takes up something like 10x10 area. Not very big, really.

TexMudder:

I ordered a kit from B100 Supply. I am going scrounging for a water heater today, barrels on Monday. I just need some WVO, lye and methanol.

So, is it safe to run the kit in the garage, or does it need ventilation?

Garage is fine. Just know what is being evaporated, and such.

I was thinking of building a little room inside the garage to keep it safe from the kids.

Gruffid,
You can find the answers to some of your questions and lots more info on the websites we referenced in this thread.
You can run an appleseed processor in a closed room, but for safety's sake you must provide some emergency ventilation to the outdoors in case the pressure gets too high. This can be done by running a simple garden hose from the pressure valve to the outdoors through a window or hole in the wall. Methanol is toxic and boils at a low temperature.
Don't let that scare you off, though. If you take your time and know what you're doing, you shouldn't have any problems.

I have my setup in a barn with open sides. Mine takes up maybe 4 feet by 15 feet, with the processor, wash tank, and drying tank. You can use any electric waterheater.
-Oso

For those who are making biodiesel, did you see the Trucks! TV episode that was recently repeated? Their equipment ran from $3,000-4,000 to initially start up. A post on a site, maybe this one, said that company was not so great, but they did not elaborate as to why or what other company was better.

Are y'all buying a setup like this that is ready to go, or assembling your own? The show had tanks, a rack for the tanks, hoses, a timer and a mixing unit. And, there was a solid produced that was discarded. How much of this solid results from making 55 gallons and how can you dispose of it safely?

Meant to add,
there is a BD plant that opened in Denton, TX, so they seem to think it is the way to go, too.

http://www.biodieselindustries.com/projects/dfwpress.htm

City of Denton partners in unique recycling venture that will reduce emissions and create jobs



Denton , Texas - The grand opening ceremony for the world's first renewable-energy powered biodiesel facility will take place, rain or shine, from 11 a.m. to noon on Tuesday, March 29, 2005 at the City of Denton Landfill in Denton , Texas . The new biodiesel facility has an initial production capacity of three million gallons of pure biodiesel per year and is powered by renewable biogas extracted from the adjacent City of Denton Landfill . This progressive project is a cooperative effort between the City of Denton and California-based Biodiesel Industries, Inc. "We're excited about this pathbreaking venture,” said City of Denton Mayor Euline Brock . “We will be able to resolve some of our major environmental challenges while providing a major service to the public." Event speakers include Joe Jobe, Executive Director of the National Biodiesel Board; City of Denton Mayor Euline Brock ; and Daryl Hannah, actress and biodiesel advocate . This ceremony is by invitation only and the media is invited to attend. Tours of the facility will be held from noon to 1 p.m. for all interested media. The landfill is located at 1527 South Mayhill Road . A map is attached for your convenience. All media must check in at the registration table.



Biodiesel is a nontoxic, biodegradable alternative to petroleum diesel that substantially reduces air pollution. This high-performance fuel can be used by itself or blended with petroleum diesel. It runs in diesel engines with no alterations. Biodiesel is a designated alternative fuel under federal law and is fully registered with the U.S. EPA. More than 500 fleets like the City of Denton use the fuel.



The City will fuel its diesel vehicle fleet with B20, a blend of 80 percent diesel and 20 percent biodiesel produced from the facility. The City's fleet-wide use of biodiesel is estimated to reduce criteria emissions from its vehicles by almost 12 tons per year, a welcome reduction in an area plagued by some of the most polluted air in the nation. This alternative fuel will also be sold through regional distribution channels. The project will have a positive effect on regional air quality, reduce dependence on foreign oil, and stimulate local economic development.



“We are very pleased to welcome Biodiesel Industries of Greater Dallas Fort-Worth as the newest affiliate to our nationwide network of biodiesel production facilities,” said Russell Teall, President of Biodiesel Industries. “This project is the first of its kind. All of the energy needs of the facility, including all process heat and power, will be provided by renewable landfill gas from the City of Denton .”



Specially designed boilers and an advanced Sterling engine electrical generating system take advantage of the landfill gas being produced at the adjacent City of Denton landfill. The landfill gas, methane, is a potent greenhouse gas. Biodiesel Industries' Corporate Project Manager, Jake Stewart, said “ By channeling the methane into a productive use instead of releasing it into the atmosphere, we are helping to mitigate global warming and reducing our dependence on foreign oil.”



The Denton project is the fifth biodiesel production project completed by Biodiesel Industries and uses a proprietary technology that is “feedstock neutral,” meaning that it can produce quality biodiesel from many different resources such as soy bean oil and used french fry oil. Quality control systems are built into the process control automation for the facilities, ensuring that the biodiesel produced meets stringent U.S. and European standards.



The Denton project is receiving support from Dallas area restaurants that are offering their used cooking oil (a waste product). The used oil is collected by Biodiesel Industries and the restaurants are publicly recognized for their participation. Dallas area restaurants produce over 12 million gallons of recyclable cooking oil annually according to Vance Kemler, Director of Solid Waste for the City of Denton . “This project works with participating restaurants to utilize that recyclable resource along with other farm-grown sources to produce this cleaner, Texas-made fuel,” Kemler added. “We are proud to be part of the first biodiesel project of its kind that uses entirely renewable and recycled resources as part of the production process.” Restaurants wishing to participate in the project can call Jake Stewart at (940) 390-8284.



Biodiesel has received strong bi-partisan political support in recent years as a domestic and renewable fuel that can play a pivotal role in reducing American dependence on foreign oil. Recent federal and state legislation has provided strong incentives for the use of biodiesel. It has also received passionate backing from American farmers who grow the many oil-bearing crops from which the fuel can be derived. “In addition to being one of America 's leading oil-producing states, Texas is a leading agricultural state. Biodiesel offers an opportunity for Texas and other states to replace the oil fields of the Middle East, with America 's new oil fields right here at home. By growing our own fuel, we not only help supplement and stabilize our energy supply and national security, but we are growing new jobs and opportunities in rural America.” said Joe Jobe, Executive Director of the National Biodiesel Board.



Though this pioneering project has only recently been announced, it has garnered international attention as a renewable model holding tremendous potential for governments world-wide that are seeking an economical, less polluting, locally produced fuel source. “It is our belief that the facility in Denton is the model for other municipalities moving towards sustainable energy independence,” stated Biodiesel Industries' Denton Project Manager, Charles Fiedler.



For more information on this project contact Jake Stewart, Biodiesel Industries, at (940) 390-8284 or at Stewart@USA.net; Jenna Higgins-Rose, National Biodiesel Board, at (800) 841-5849; and Vance Kemler, City of Denton, at (940) 349-8003.



For other news items on the City of Denton , visit our website at www.cityofdenton.com , go to Quick Information and click on Press Releases.

I haven't seen the Trucks episode, but I've heard a lot about it. I believe it features the FuelMeister system. The major problems people have with this are
1- poly tanks = bad for use as a material in the reactor tank.
2- really expensive. My setup probably works better and cost around $550.

For those looking into it, don't be scared of "building your own." You don't have to be an engineer or chemist and design a system from scratch. Check out the websites, especially www.biodieselcommunity.org. There are very detailed plans out there, and a 2 or 3 hours of reading could save you a few thousand bucks. I bought an appleseed processor kit from B100supply.com that had all the parts and installation instructions, a water heater from Lowes, and I was up and running in about an hour and a half. It's probably not much more complicated than taking the FuelMeister out of the boxes and setting it up.

I'm sure Stukreit and Kartattack can back me up on that.

-Oso

Where have you guys found the best WVO source ie, fastfood, chinese food or mexican food? What are some questions I should ask when deciding which resteraunt to get it from or does it matter. Are the stores pretty open to the idea or a little skeptical at what your trying to do.

Also. What kind of pump system is ideal for sucking out the WVO. Do they make a kit? Is it a good idea to buy a 200 micron screen to fit over the 55 gallon drum? For you guys out there what are your experiences.

Again thanks
Rich.

Questions:
1. How much are 55 gallon drums?

2. How much WVO does it take to make s typical tank of fuel? I know its not 20gal of WVO = 20gal of bio, but is it at least somewhere close?

3. Have you ever had to dispose of WVO? If so where would you do so?

3. What do you do with the by products? Where can you dump those?

4. How do you get the WVO from the restaurant site to the home? Do you pump it from the container at the restaurant into another container in your truck? Do you just swap out containers? If you pump while there, where would you get that pump from and how much is it? What do you pump into?

I am currently making my own, and running B100 with no problems. So far I have about 1000 miles at 100, and 2000 at various percentages. My process takes about 2 to 3 days to complete a batch of 35gals or so. There is no wash involved, therefore no drying involved.
A quick pm will get a dialog started if you wish.

Questions:
1. How much are 55 gallon drums?

2. How much WVO does it take to make s typical tank of fuel? I know its not 20gal of WVO = 20gal of bio, but is it at least somewhere close?

3. Have you ever had to dispose of WVO? If so where would you do so?

3. What do you do with the by products? Where can you dump those?

4. How do you get the WVO from the restaurant site to the home? Do you pump it from the container at the restaurant into another container in your truck? Do you just swap out containers? If you pump while there, where would you get that pump from and how much is it? What do you pump into?

55g drums are something like 20 bucks.

20 gallong of WVO will get you damm close to 20 gallons of BD.

I dumped the WVO out on the firewood pile.

The biproducts can be used as soap. Or you can just bury them. Some have said it works great as a fertilizer. I dunno.

To get the WVO from the restaurant, you either need a liftgate for the entire drum (450 lbs) or a pump and another tank. It is difficult to pump. Thick stuff, and it may clog the line, etc. Kinda nasty stuff to deal with. Like tar, it gets everywhere.

Not sure about where to buy a pump, as that is where I decided it was easier to buy the BD. I dont use much diesel anyway.

TxDoc, do you know if there will be alot of stations supporting biodiesel around here? (20 minutes SW of Fort Worth here).

biodiesel.org >where to get it > suppliers and retailers.

DFW has a few spots IIRC.

Chinese restaraunts are supposed to have the best oil. Don't just go up to a restaraunt and start sucking their oil, because many restaraunts have contracts with oil recycling companies, and taking the oil without asking is technically stealing. Most restaraunts will be willing to work with you if you let them know what you're doing. You can find tips on how to approach a kitchen manager to mooch oil on some of the biodiesel sites.
Be careful where you dump your glycerine and wash water, because I've found that it kills grass. I don't think it's toxic or harmful in the long run, it was probably just a methanol problem (will vapor off eventually) or a pH issue. Putting it in a compost pile is fine.
As for collecting WVO, the easiest seems to be if you can get the restaraunt to put the used oil back into the 5 gal plastic cubees it came in. But this means that the restaraunt has to change their fryer oil cold, and not everyone does that. I have a 12v pump I got from Norther Tools that works pretty good so far, but I've heard of these burning out. I pump into a drum in my truck and then back out into a drum in my barn so I don't have to do any heavy lifting. And like MannyTranny says, it does get everywhere, especially when you're starting out. You'll find some other methods for collecting oil on the biodiesel sites as well.
To filter, I let the oil settle in my barn (the longer the better) and then I filter it to 5 microns through whole-house water filters into my processing tank. Some people say this is unnecessary, but I do it anyway.

By the way, jerkyman, what are you driving? I'm sure unwashed biodiesel works fine in some motors, but I'm too nervous to run it in my Duramax.

-Oso

TxDoc, do you know if there will be alot of stations supporting biodiesel around here? (20 minutes SW of Fort Worth here).

I don't, but someone on here may, who lives in that area. Or, there may be some sources, like www.biodiesel.org (http://www.biodiesel.org) that lists places where it is available or will be. Check or search on http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x

http://www.distributiondrive.com/contact.html#Retail%20Fueling%20Locations


http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=641

http://www.wnbiodiesel.com/customers.html