Wow, I cant believe I never found this site prior to this evening. Very very nice indeed.


I used to be a membr on the other popular site but hadn't been there in quite some time. Come to find out that since I'm a non-subscriber I cant post there any longer. When did that happen??


Anyways...I've been reading with great interest all the fuel filtration posts and am really curious about one big thing.


If the Racor set up that is stock on our trucks isn't sufficient, why would anyone want to use the same brand (Racor) as a pre-filter to the factory one??


Is it a more stringent style filter? I for one am thinking a different brand might be the hot set up here...am I wrong? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Welcome Vincent,


Where to start? Any time you filter fuel twice you are doing yourself a huge favor, regardless of filter type. The stock Racor filter was designed to GM specifications. Racor also builds other filters to other specifications. The one in the kit is a proven performer. There are also 2 others that are used regularly on this site. There is a large fillter from Catepillar and another filter called the Baldwin mega filter. These are also both proven performers. There are several other items to consider in a filter system. Location in relation to the stock filter,pre or post? Another consideration is if you want a heated head unit and a water in fuel indicator? Keep reading past post and good luck!

Welcome Vincent,


Racor also builds other filters to other specifications. The one in the kit is a proven performer.


Yeah that's kind of the point that I was driving at. I keep reading that folks are installing Racor pre-filters. It seems to be that I would want to go with a better brand than whats OEM....unless, the Racor aftermarket is a stronger rated filter. It sounds as though it is.


Although, after reading the other posts about injector failures on trucks with 16,000 miles and pre-filters already installed...one has to wonder if its a moot point!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'm telling you...GM/Bosch is gonna have a class action suit on their hands with this design flaw.Edited by: VincentH

Welcome Vincent,


Racor also builds other filters to other specifications. The one in the kit is a proven performer.


Yeah that's kind of the point that I was driving at. I keep reading that folks are installing Racor pre-filters. It seems to be that I would want to go with a better brand than whats OEM....unless, the Racor aftermarket is a stronger rated filter. It sounds as though it is.


Although, after reading the other posts about injector failures on trucks with 16,000 miles and pre-filters already installed...one has to wonder if its a moot point!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'm telling you...GM/Bosch is gonna have a class action suit on their hands with this design flaw.

The person who just posted about an early injector failure was also running an emulsifying additive - which GM specifically says to avoid. I don't think you can sue them if you choose to go against their recommendations and things go boom...


jeff

Filters will make your injector tips last longer. Filters will also help all of the other moving parts in your engine. Filters won't protect you from a manufacturing defect or a design flaw. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Dmax Lover,


I understand warranty issues over additives and also power modules and also really big tires. But I am know starting to worry about the shocks,exaust and air filter I put on my truck? Will these things void my warranty? I would never own another diesel again if I had to run stock shocks,air filter,exaust and tires. Just could not handle the performance decrease now that I have tasted something better!

Dmax Lover,


I understand warranty issues over additives and also power modules and also really big tires. But I am know starting to worry about the shocks,exaust and air filter I put on my truck? Will these things void my warranty? I would never own another diesel again if I had to run stock shocks,air filter,exaust and tires. Just could not handle the performance decrease now that I have tasted something better!





That's a trade-off that you make on your own -> the thing that torques me is that the reputation of the vehicle is getting unfairly trashed on this board. There are those on this board who would run a power module (juice, etc.) , run additives that can make the motor go boom (primrose,fppf) , propane inject, run at 90 mph while towing a 15,000 pound fifth wheel and then bitch that the thing didn't last...


jeff

Everyone needs to keep in mind this important concept:


The people who come to this board, read, and post, are a supset of the population who own Duramax trucks. They are not necessarily a statistical representation of all Duramax owners.


We are the ones who either focus more on maintenance or modifications, or worry alot, or have problems and come here seeking help with advice and solutions. People who are not having problems and are not particularly tuned in to mechanical issues probably don't come here, so we don't hear from them. In fact, how lousy would this site be if it was just a bunch of "Ra-Ra, I'm up to 24,832 miles and haven't had a single problem", "I've got 32,000 miles on my Firestones and they're still legal", "I never use any oil and I'm at 97,638 miles!" etc? The problem-free tend not to post. Its people like me, who either worry about potential problems, or have problems, who post here.


So when you hear about ANOTHER injector failure, keep in mind that while we expect better, we really don't have the numbers to appreciate the actual failure rate. GM does, but somehow I DOUBT they will share their statistics with us or anyone else.


Still, these posts do point out some recurring themes, like injector problems (probably not that frequent but such a big ticket item that people's ears certainly perk up about it) and worthless shock absorbers.


It reminds me of the medical student who diagnoses himself with every illness as he learns about it in class. Brain tumors, multiple sclerosis, ebola virus, etc. Many medical students were pretty sure either they or someone in their immediate family had all these diseases and more http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


FWIW, just my opinion.


Jim

Jim (2fast2),


I agree...in fact that is kind of the reason that I quit frequenting the other board a long time ago.


I got paranoid about my truck blowing up on me...even though I'm a motorhead and understand mechanical items very well. All the gloom and doom, albeit isolated instances, tend to make you a constant worry wart.


A long time back, I decided to bury my head in the sand and just drive and maintain the thing as it was designed to be used.


Hopefully, that will work out, as I intend to keep this rig for a long, long time. Especially when you consider that I payed as much as I did for my first house for it!


I will however, probably go to a second filtration system since it certainly couldn't hurt.

I am convinced the sight owner needs to start a forum just for injector problems. This wil alow an area to collect a enormous amount of injector info. It will also allow those of us who do not want to become paranoid to stay out of the conversation. If this keeps up I will quit visiting all boards. Life is to short to spend it worring. If you do not no what it means to worry, it means thinking about a situation of problem that has not yet happened and indeed may never happen. THINK ABOUT IT!

I don't look at it as worrying so much as I am learning more and more each day. I don't fear or worry about what I understand. Some of you guys and gals have had diesels all your lives and know far more than I ever will, but I am a quick learner and catching up fast (can you hear those footsteps behind you) LOL


I read everything I could get my hands on about impact of dirty fuel. Seemed no way to solve the source of the dirty fuel and no way to fix the OEM stock filter and no one has come up with a screw on alternative yet. After all that and asking questions it became clear to me that the secondary filter was going to solve one aspect of the potential issue being the impact of dirty fuel. So that issue seems to be fixed and now we move on to other aspects of the injector issue.


The key to solving this "unknown" failure issue is to try and determine how many failures there are and try to catogorize them into why they failed such as dirt, mechanical breakdown, design flaw or electrical.


I keep referring to electrical because something is sending a signal to the injector to fire and not to fire etc. Maybe there is a hiccup in the software or the wiring making an injector stick open or fire at the wrong time. Mechanically you would think Bosch had that down to a fine science. What else controls the injector? Maybe we need to look outside the actual injector itself and see what else is involved in controlling when the injector fires etc.


I don't know what is involved, just looking at the system and going HHMMmmmmnnnn

Chevysrus,


Good point about the electrical. I have gone so far as to wonder about those electrical connections that appear to exposed to hot oil. Are certain oils to conductive? Is there a problem with magnetizing your fuel via ilter magnets? There are so many variables. Do the aftermarket boxes have a more likely chance of sending eroneus signals? These are all good questions!

Welcome Vincent,



Racor also builds other filters to other specifications. The one in the kit is a proven performer.



Yeah that's kind of the point that I was driving at. I keep reading that folks are installing Racor pre-filters. It seems to be that I would want to go with a better brand than whats OEM....unless, the Racor aftermarket is a stronger rated filter. It sounds as though it is.



Although, after reading the other posts about injector failures on trucks with 16,000 miles and pre-filters already installed...one has to wonder if its a moot point!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif



I'm telling you...GM/Bosch is gonna have a class action suit on their hands with this design flaw.

The person who just posted about an early injector failure was also running an emulsifying additive - which GM specifically says to avoid. I don't think you can sue them if you choose to go against their recommendations and things go boom...


jeff

Jeff, what company's and brands are you referring to when you say the ones with emulsifying additives?. Edited by: keystonekid

FPPF and Primrose employ emulsification to deal with "free water". The person posting with an "early in life" failure was using Primrose per recommendations of George Morrison at Avlube.

GM says...

"Emulsification of water in the fuel can allow water to get past the fuel filter/water separator, in most cases causing damage to the fuel system".

And shell oil says...

"Free water, or water/fuel emulsion delivered to an injector, can be a disaster. Water is instantly turned to steam with sufficient force to destroy injector tips. Not only is the injector ruined, but metal debris enters the combustion chamber where it can damage pistons and liners, as well as turbocharger fins."


jeff
Edited by: dmax lover

The great de/emulsify debate. From everything I have read at fuel filter/fuel storage sites they do not reccomend an emulsifying agent. It has been documented that if a tank has water in the bottom the additive will actually emulsify the water back into the fuel. It also allows it to slip right past your water separator. The response is then that entrained water is not harmful to your motor. This has also been documented to not be true. Entrained water is destructive and also corrosive. The one thing we all need to shift our focus toward is lubricity. There are different types and some are actually harmfull. Others are just not as effective. I am in search of the very best lubricator that contains no emulsifying agents of any type. Whether that be demulsyifing or emulsufying. There is probally not much water in your fuel and if there is it will be caught in the water separator. Lubrication is where it is at! Keep the dirt and water out and then lubricate.

Remember that our experience has shown that GM didn't fully test the Dmax fuel system and therefore any GM recommendations regarding fuel additives may be best held with a grain of salt.

Ray403Dmax,


I have done many searches and past reading. I was not aware we established GM did not adequitly test the fuel system. Give me the 1 H and 5 W's as to establishing this fact? I gather my info. about fuel filtering and aditives from other sources than just this site. There are many parties non-related to Gm who agree with there choice in additives. Go see what additives most of the country is putting in there premium diesel fuel storage tanks. Go see what 8 out of 10 filter manufactures reccomend. This website is becoming an ever increasingly small box.

I gather my info. about fuel filtering and aditives from other sources than just this site. There are many parties non-related to Gm who agree with there choice in additives. Go see what additives most of the country is putting in there premium diesel fuel storage tanks. Go see what 8 out of 10 filter manufactures reccomend. This website is becoming an ever increasingly small box.

Ok, I'll bite - exactly what brand(s) of
additive should "we" be using then?

THANKS!

T.

Terry,
I'm NOT biting back http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif , but my reply is "Stanadyne", at least through the cold season, where "cold" is a significant percentage of days below freezing. Non emulsifying, helps avoid waxing, etc.

Unfortunately I am not able to give you a definite answer. I am still researching. I will have my own personal opinion soon, however at this time I do not. I know one thing for sure. Never let anyone tell you the additive and filtering buisness are not important to there bottom line and there is no money to be made. The additive market is a mult-millon dollar industry and there are atleast 50 brands. It is important to search back the source of there chemicals and what type they use. If you are interested in learning for yourself I can reccomend you visit all of the top fuel companys. I.E. Chevron. Also visit the leading filter manufacture. I.E. CIM-TEK,Racor ect.ect. They all have good reading and there idea of what makes a good additive. Also do a search on the WWW to see just how many aftermarket filters and additives are available. It is staggering. There appears to be a lot of incredibly effective filtering systems avaiable. They do get a little spendy. To the tune of 650.00 dollars.