...Any rumors if this is going to "un-shelf" the 4.5L from GM? I'd imagine we have some GM insiders here...

Relevant article: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/05/cummins-feds-developing-four-cylinder-diesel-for-nissan-titan.html



http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e2014e8885101d970d-800wi
http://blogs.cars.com/.a/6a00d83451b3c669e201538e9199cc970b-800wi

cool, someone needs to get something going.

I hope they get it going. I like the inline 4 cylinder idea.

Love it! I hope this happens and all the rest of them join the half toN diesel party.

Yes indeed, things are heading that way. Unfortunately, the 4.5L isn't fuel efficient enough for future mpg milestones. GM needs to pare it down to a slimmer displacement. They say fuel economy goal is 30mpg (averaging city/hwy) for half ton pickups.

And the diesel emission critics will be pleased with Cummins' T2B2 results. They say its 50 state hybrid emission like.

Ford's EcoBoost will be a short term EcoBust. Just not enough fuel economy to be had there.

Why does Cummins always partner with the worst of the chassis manufacturers?

Why does Cummins always partner with the worst of the chassis manufacturers?

Dodge seen the light before anyone else with the Cummins venture. Plus their sales sucked and they needed to boost them.
Imagine if Ford or GM had done it vs Dodge. It would have forced the diesel war a long time ago.

Dodge seen the light before anyone else with the Cummins venture. Plus their sales sucked and they needed to boost them.
Imagine if Ford or GM had done it vs Dodge. It would have forced the diesel war a long time ago.

If Ford had partnered with Cummins, GM would be totally out of the truck market by now and Dodge would probably be out of business.

Ford, IMO, has the best chassis out there... It's just a crap motor since the 7.3.

Dodge, IMO, has the worst chassis out there, they only survive with an awesome engine.

GM has a blend of the two (motor/chassis), which is acceptable to me.

Ford, IMO, has the best chassis out there...

Have you seen the frame flex video where the Fords tailgate implodes due to extreme distortion of the body?

Not sure I agree there....

Have you seen the frame flex video where the Fords tailgate implodes due to extreme distortion of the body?

Not sure I agree there....

No, lol, I haven't. Wait, wasn't Ford just making fun of Tundra for frame flex? :D

No, lol, I haven't. Wait, wasn't Ford just making fun of Tundra for frame flex? :D

YouTube - ‪Chevy Silverado HD | Ep. 4 | Frame Rigidity: Frame Twist‬‏

Interesting... I wonder how the prior years stacked up in competition.

Sure wish GM would do away with Chevy/GMC and come out with just a "GM" truck to stop Ford's claim of being the #1 selling truck.

as weird as this sounds, my 99 dodge cummins felt more solid in the chassis than my current dmax.

I always wondered why all the fords I see both here in the UK and when I am out in the US have bent tailgates. I KNOW NOW:D.

You should see the pityful excuses for pick ups round here and the so called chassis under them. Have a look on google for L200 warrior chassis. Their chassis is at most 3.5" deep. My intake is bigger :D

Couldnt GM adapt one of the Isuzu engines they already produce, they have basically done it a few times. I bet one of the V-6 Diesels would get pretty good mileage in a half ton, if they have one that meets the emmisions standards.

Considering how easily a 2.7L straight 5 diesel producing 150/250 whips a mercedes sprinter van around, I can't see 220/380 (especially at 1800rpm) being a remote power issue to anybody in a half ton. Hell the early 90s 350s only had 210hp. Really is too bad cummins didn't pair with gm on that one. I can see easily 35mpg highway in a 2wd.

Cummins went to both Ford and Chevy before going to Dodge and BOTH GM and Ford said to take a flyin hike. no market in the us for a diesel pick'em truck.

Cummins went to both Ford and Chevy before going to Dodge and BOTH GM and Ford said to take a flyin hike. no market in the us for a diesel pick'em truck.

I don't know how you think that since Ford and gm had diesels in 82' and 83' Dodge didn't get one till 89"

they were looking at sales numbers of the 6.2/6.9 compared to the gas engines. they were under powered and smokey then and people were in such disgust with a diesel as a whole that unless you had a farm you didnt need or have use for a diesel pick up. crap; just look at how the diesel Chevette fared. nice small econo car that had a small 4 cyl diesel that was soooooooo under powered that even with a 4 speed couldnt get moving to 30mph in under 2 minutes that people didnt want them either. even thou they could get 40 to 45 mpg in one. even back then that was damn good mileage with fuel prices still under $1.00 for diesel.

Biggest problem with most people is they want lot's of power, fast acceleration but good economy.

You have got to trade something to get something. Before we had the d'max, we ran an old ford transit panel van. that had a 2.5 litre 4 cylinder diesel in it. That used to do 50 mpg (UK mpg) It would carry 2000 lb in it's back. Problem was it was ideal for short distance driving but as soon as you want to drive on the interstate, it would do 65 mph and that's it on dino juice. would do 70-75 on biodiesel.

It would make you deaf and cramped in the cab. But it did it's job and was still going strong when we sold it.

as weird as this sounds, my 99 dodge cummins felt more solid in the chassis than my current dmax.

I have both I have just purchased a 2007 chevy duramax D/A 4X4 CCLB
I also have my 99 CTD QCLB Cummins 4X4

by comparison my dodge feels Much stiffer in the frame and more solid.
I have been alternating driving each vehicle to see which one i like better or to feel the difference I have some observations however until i put my Truck camper on the Chevy and tow my fifth wheel with the chevy i will not know the complete comparisons

Power wise duramax is very powerful and quiet much more quiet than the 99 dodge.

the coil over front end on my dodge has a much more solid feel than the INDP front on the Chevy.

I will probally keep both and I am very happy with both but I am still learning the chevy.

have a great day

CHris

I had a 95 Dodge 1500 Sport gasser... Was my first and last Dodge product.

Within 1k miles the Infinity radio went out. Within 5k miles the speedo was replaced 3 times.

Within 15k miles it wore out a set of tires due to bad ball joints that Dodge refused to replace and I fixed on my own dime.

Within 50k miles it was leaking fluid from the pinion seal on the axle, as well as the rear main seal on the engine.

Within 60k miles it needed a dashectomy as the A/C was leaking freon under the dash.

Within 70k miles the trans started leaking out both front/rear main seals, and started slipping.

Hey, at least it never smoked out the tailpipe and the paint stayed on it!

Never again will I have another Dodge.

Oddly enough, I believe Ford Motor Company owned a huge chunk of Cummins stock when the 5.9 B series motor was first put into the Dodge truck.

I have both I have just purchased a 2007 chevy duramax D/A 4X4 CCLB
I also have my 99 CTD QCLB Cummins 4X4

by comparison my dodge feels Much stiffer in the frame and more solid.
I have been alternating driving each vehicle to see which one i like better or to feel the difference I have some observations however until i put my Truck camper on the Chevy and tow my fifth wheel with the chevy i will not know the complete comparisons

Power wise duramax is very powerful and quiet much more quiet than the 99 dodge.

the coil over front end on my dodge has a much more solid feel than the INDP front on the Chevy.

I will probally keep both and I am very happy with both but I am still learning the chevy.

have a great day

CHris

I was wondering if anyone else had both trucks to compare. My Dmax feels ike a soft flexible piece of aluminum when towing my jeep, my dodge felt like it was rock solid. Other wise I love my Dmax.

Couldnt GM adapt one of the Isuzu engines they already produce, they have basically done it a few times. I bet one of the V-6 Diesels would get pretty good mileage in a half ton, if they have one that meets the emmisions standards.

It's already been done. GM had the 4.5 done and running, and tuned in the half tons 3 years ago. It was ready for production and getting nearly 30mpg. GM decided to no produce it because they felt the diesel half tons would steal sales fro the 2500/3500 market. Most people don't need to haul 15k. Most people would just like to be able to tow their jeep or race car with diesel power and efficiency which a Half ton would be great for. There was just less profit in them than in the bigger trucks so GM said no. I know this because I have a friend who worked developing this engine and truck for GM years ago. He said it was awesome.

It's already been done. GM had the 4.5 done and running, and tuned in the half tons 3 years ago. It was ready for production and getting nearly 30mpg. GM decided to no produce it because they felt the diesel half tons would steal sales fro the 2500/3500 market. Most people don't need to haul 15k. Most people would just like to be able to tow their jeep or race car with diesel power and efficiency which a Half ton would be great for. There was just less profit in them than in the bigger trucks so GM said no. I know this because I have a friend who worked developing this engine and truck for GM years ago. He said it was awesome.

I understand their thinking but they are missing a large chunk of their market by doing this. I sold my 2500 a few years ago (bad decision I know) and bought a newer 1500. I couldn't justify the 2500 fOr my needs.

I sold that truck as well and now drive 40 miles one way to work. I'd love to have a truck again but I can't justify the 2500 and the milege sucks on the 1500s. I'd like to think the regained and new customers they would gain would offset current customers changing platforms.

I've always considered myself a GM guy but I currently find two BMWs in the garage instead of GMs. They had what I needed and liked. If the 1500 diesel was available my decision would have been simple. It sucks being a truck guy in a car- even though it is nice.

The problem with the Cummins is the price - and their reputation for saying, my way or the highway......
My boat, 2009 Ranger Tug, has a Cummins 4 cylinder inline, 150 hp...
In 2010 Yanmar engines came to Ranger and offered them their 150hp engine for $5K less than Cummins... Ranger liked the Cummins engines so they went back to Cummins with the deal and offered them a chance to compete with Yanmar... Cummins refused to drop their price even one penny...
An interesting point is that both engines are manufactured in Italy in plants that are almost side by side yet have a $5K price difference(per a person at Ranger Tugs)

Cummins went to both Ford and Chevy before going to Dodge and BOTH GM and Ford said to take a flyin hike. no market in the us for a diesel pick'em truck.

I had read this spring that Cummins went to GM first. I couldn't imagine the market now if GM went for it. I do like in-line diesel engines but my ass is not fit for a dodge. When I repowered my '86 I wanted a CAT, but couldn't find a huge aftermarket or references for big power.

I had read this spring that Cummins went to GM first. I couldn't imagine the market now if GM went for it. I do like in-line diesel engines but my ass is not fit for a dodge. When I repowered my '86 I wanted a CAT, but couldn't find a huge aftermarket or references for big power.

I used to drive big trucks, and man they had one old International with a Cat in it. That truck was bad ass. They turned it up to 500HP (mind you this was decades ago), removed the rev limiter (it would spin to 4.5k), and you didn't put it in 8th gear until after 75 mph.

If Ford had partnered with Cummins, GM would be totally out of the truck market by now and Dodge would probably be out of business.

Ford, IMO, has the best chassis out there... It's just a crap motor since the 7.3.

Dodge, IMO, has the worst chassis out there, they only survive with an awesome engine.

GM has a blend of the two (motor/chassis), which is acceptable to me.


I know this is your opinion but IMO ford has the worst riding truck out there unless it has a load behind it. Then the ride is some what bearable/comfortable but still will never match a GM's loaded or unloaded ride quality. Not sure if you know it or not but the new frame/chassis from gm is now giving ford a run for their money if they haven't already surpassed ford judging by the diesel power mag GM's frame is much stouter than ford if you look up the test (king of the hill) from a couple months ago.

All of this would be mute if we were smart enough to get off the dino, and move to hydrogen

My 2002 D/A 4x4 LT CrewCab stickered for $47,380 new. A 2011 F150 V-6 Turbo Crewcab Platinum 4x4 stickers for $52,000. With the 20%-30% profit margins that Ford and GM are commanding for their trucks, how feasible is an expensive diesel engine in a light duty truck? The difference between a 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton similarly equipped would be negligible.

Hydrogen is all hype, you can't get enough power out of it. You need a turbocharger to match the power of a gasoline engine.

Also, Hydrogen is way too costly to make.

I have both I have just purchased a 2007 chevy duramax D/A 4X4 CCLB
I also have my 99 CTD QCLB Cummins 4X4

by comparison my dodge feels Much stiffer in the frame and more solid.


You have got to be kidding me. The 2nd gen dodge frames are the biggest joke EVER. Have you ever looked at one? Or put it beside a ford/GM HD frame????

The dodge frame looks like a half ton frame compared to ford/GM. The rear frame rails are probably all of 3-4" tall. First time I crawled underneath one I almost laughed. Now I know why some of the big Cummins sled pulles bend/break frames...they just snap and twist right between the bed and cab.

And as far as the front suspension, yeah maybe RIGHT after you replace every single part (unit bearings, ball joints, bushings, track bar, tie rod ends) it MIGHT drive ok for a couple thousand miles, but then it quickly deteriorates into the typical dodge death-wobble loosey-goosey front end. I feel safer/more-solid going 100mph in a GM/ford than I do going 50mph in a second gen Dodge.

Just my opinion though.

I know why some of the big Cummins sled pulles bend/break frames...they just snap and twist right between the bed and cab

+1. I saw exactly that happen at a pull just a few weeks back - the truck was sitting with a markedly different gap between the cab and bed at the end of the pull than it had at the beginning.

You have got to be kidding me. The 2nd gen dodge frames are the biggest joke EVER. Have you ever looked at one? Or put it beside a ford/GM HD frame????

The dodge frame looks like a half ton frame compared to ford/GM. The rear frame rails are probably all of 3-4" tall. First time I crawled underneath one I almost laughed. Now I know why some of the big Cummins sled pulles bend/break frames...they just snap and twist right between the bed and cab.

And as far as the front suspension, yeah maybe RIGHT after you replace every single part (unit bearings, ball joints, bushings, track bar, tie rod ends) it MIGHT drive ok for a couple thousand miles, but then it quickly deteriorates into the typical dodge death-wobble loosey-goosey front end. I feel safer/more-solid going 100mph in a GM/ford than I do going 50mph in a second gen Dodge.

Just my opinion though.

The 2nd gen Dodge's had a sectioned frame, like GM in the 01-10 trucks, but they only used rivet's vs GM welding. Not sure if they did that up to the 03 when they went fully boxed

Why does Cummins always partner with the worst of the chassis manufacturers?:confused: The Titan is a great truck. I was bummed to give mine up, but it didn't have the payload rating I needed to tow my travel trailer.

With the way EPA fuel economy standards are heading, Cummins should be busy producing smaller displacement fuel efficient engines for a few half ton manufacturers. They'd be foolish to lock up with just one manufacturer.

:confused: The Titan is a great truck. I was bummed to give mine up, but it didn't have the payload rating I needed to tow my travel trailer.


I don't know 'cause I would never own one...but lots of people here complain about the real poor fuel milage. Brakes that last 10k miles. Rear ends that go out. There are a few recalls and lots of issues from what I hear.

I don't know 'cause I would never own one...but lots of people here complain about the real poor fuel milage. Brakes that last 10k miles. Rear ends that go out. There are a few recalls and lots of issues from what I hear.


Well Im on my second Titan now. My first one was an 08 and now an 11. The 08 got 130000 km put on it in 3 years and never had an issue with it. It hauled anywhere from 1200-2800lbs in the box once a week every week I had it. It truly changed my views on import vehicles. I liked it so much I bought it from the company I work for when I got the keys for the 11.

My 04 Duramax I just traded in had more rattles and squeeks on it than the Nissan did with more mileage. The Duramax was hardly offroad where the Nissan was used in the oilfield. If Nissan could come up with a HD truck that could handle the weight of my toyhauler Id sell my 11 Dmax tomorrow.

I don't know 'cause I would never own one...but lots of people here complain about the real poor fuel milage. Brakes that last 10k miles. Rear ends that go out. There are a few recalls and lots of issues from what I hear.I had an '05, and yes it got crappy gas mileage, but a lot of that was because it was lifted 6" with 35s on 20s. I had the "brake judder" issue at 5000 miles, when the dealership replaced the front brakes with heavier-duty rotors and no problems with the brakes after that for 40000 mi. I had to get the exhaust manifolds replaced for cracks at 30000 miles under warranty. All-in-all it was an extremely trouble-free and strong truck. If I needed another 1/2 ton I'd buy another one, and if they came out with an HD Titan I'd trade my Chevy in a heartbeat.

My previous truck was an 07 GMC 2500 DMAX and I loved it except the maintenance costs were killing me, and the payment was way too high. Couldn't justify the cost just to have a diesel, so I traded it in on an 08 Titan, 6" lift on 35" Mud terrains, other than getting 12.5 MPG around town and 15 MPG on the highway I love the truck.

Though if Chevy/GMC was to come out with a 1/2 Ton diesel I would come back to the General in a heartbeat.

And to whomever it was that said they wished GM would consolidate into one truck instead of the Chevy/GMC split, I agree.

I think GM would be able to upsell people to a Diesel 1/2 ton as well as have some people give up their HD's for it. I think a lot of 1/2 ton owners like the better turning radius, shorter overall length, not too big for the wife to drive, etc.