Hopefully someone can tell me where I went wrong during my pump rebuild...

First, a little about the car & engine. The car is a 1984 Cadillac Fleetwood, however the engine was swapped out before I bought it. As near as I can tell it came from an 1980 model truck. I say that because it's a Goodwrench reman with a DB2825 SH3914 pump and pencil injectors. The block is DX and the heads are D3A.

Next, how I got to a pump rebuild: I flew to California, bought the car and drove it back to Florida. I had the oil changed, fuel filter changed and treated the fuel wth Motorcraft Cetane Boost additive at each fill up(it's Stanadyne's Performance stuff repackaged for sale by Ford dealers). The problem I started to run into was a progressively worsening idle quality and white smoke at idle. Add to that some surging at 50-60 MPH light throttle later on. Other than that the car ran fine the whole way home. The idle/surge issue sent me into the pump.

I spent this weekend rebuilding the pump after acquiring a kit online and a governor flex ring (in case). Turns out this pump had already been built once and had what I have to assume was the EID (no rivets on the backside of the governor). I followed the directions, matching the seals I removed and cleaned the pump with a 50/50 mixture of Motorcraft Lubricity (again Stanadyne repackaged) additive and Kerosene.

I cannot get any fuel to the injectors now. I get plenty into the pump and a slow stream (while cranking & shortly after) from the return. I took the pump apart again and double checked my work, timing, cam ring, shaft to pump timing, shaft to engine timing all to no avail. I don't get so much as a popcorn fart out this thing. During my last attempt I didn't even bother to connect the injector lines. After filling the pump, I cranked (and cranked and cranked) looking for the slightest trace of fuel out of the head and got nothing. During my second attempt I put the transfer pump screw down a thread or two below flush as well. I double checked the shut off solenoid operation as well, and was very careful to install it properly.

During the first rebuild attempt I saw some very tiny metal flake floating around inside the pump but nothing substantially worn internally. I also got some metal during the second attempt after cranking repeatedly, which does concern me. The only wear I found internally was the cam/advance to housing, which appeared minor, since the assembly was free. I did not take the head completely apart, so I don't know what's in there yet. Luckily I have another pump on the way but I've rebuilt everything from engines to transmissions to a/c compressors and have never had this much trouble with something.

I would be grateful for any ideas...not just on the pump but on the overall engine/fuel system combo. I'm not 100% this is the correct pump for this setup making all of this an excercise in futility anyway. I think I read somewhere that pencil injected engines should use a DB2825 PC**** pump variety.

Got to use the right pump for pencil injectors.

You should get fuel on the bench by spinning counter clockwise fast and have 12volts going to the SO solenoid.. Solenoid is clicking right?

Most common mistake is putting the small metering valve clip under the guide stud.

No metal should be in pump. Fix that first.

Ask away I've done 100's of these pumps.

The SH designation would tell me your using a poppet injection pump.I had a DB2825 SH3811 injection pump that had the long slender aluminum alloy arm on the passenger side section of the pump housing.If your pump has that alloy arm,your using the wrong pump.The poppet injected pump uses the mechanical light load advance feature and the pencil pump uses the speed advance system.

But in any case,even if you were using the wrong pump,the pump should still spray fuel.If it does'nt,i'd suspect stuck pumping plungers in the base of the rotor assembly.I've seen this happen many times.

Thanks for the reply. What a learning curve this has been. Luckily I located a DB2825 PC374* (can't read that last number on the tag on the photo) online, and am having it shipped to me now. It was last used in 1997 from a running vehicle so it's going to need gone through prior to me thinking about bolting it up. The good news is other than the mismatch of the pump to the injectors, someone did put some work into this engine. I noted some anti sieze on the glow plugs, plus the fact that during the coldest (50s) weather I experienced during my trip the car started after about 5s of glow plug operation tells me they're later model GPs. I think when it's all said and done, the correct pump to match the injectors, the DX block D3A heads, this car should run pretty good.

It's probably a 3742 pump.I have one of those on my 5.7 diesel.It's a good pump and will do the job well.The other pencil pumps are 3271 and 3633.There are more,but those three are the most popular.

I'm also using D3A heads with the '81 DX block.Nice engine and performs very well for me.I've spent $4 grand in that engine with ARP fasteners,.030 oversize pistons,total seal gapless piston rings and the list keeps going.

There is something so unique about having a diesel in a big car like this. I've wanted one for years, ever since my Uncle bought his '81 Electra with the 350 diesel in it. After he died my cousin acquired it and seeing her go 400-500 miles on a tank of fuel just amazed me. I also have a soft spot for big old Cadillacs and man this car generates a lot of attention...from the un-initiated asking, "Hey why is that thing making so much noise?" right before I stick the green handled pump into it at the fuel station...to the guy who stopped me at a rest stop asking me if he could take a movie of me starting the engine to send to his friend who didn't believe these cars came with Diesel engines. I'm looking forward to getting it back on the road soon.

here's a 3811 pump and you'll notice the poppet type injectors which go with it.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://images.craigslist.org/3n83p53lb5O25V25W0b4d884471d1d49a18dd.jpg&imgrefurl=http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/2322792869.html&usg=__yWTgZ163lyi3-1I3aCTAgGDmeX4=&h=225&w=300&sz=7&hl=en&start=1&zoom=1&itbs=1&tbnid=2mF9SM3RfX4WhM:&tbnh=87&tbnw=116&prev=/search%3Fq%3DDB2825%2BSH3811%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG%26 biw%3D1003%26bih%3D622%26gbv%3D2%26tbm%3Disch&ei=UX-_TavEHZPAtgfi3eC0BQ

DB2825PC3840 was probably the last and best pump for the pencil style nozzles.

http://www.gm-diesel.com/vbull/non-turbo-charged-diesels/20692-5-7-4-3-olds-diesel-faq-6.html

Thanks for the replies. This helps. I've ordered a seal kit and plan to go through this PC pump this weekend if all the parts show up on time. I'll let you know how it turns out!

Well...I got this car running again. I know it ain't right but -- I had ordered a DB2825 SH3811 pump prior to realizing I needed the PC version, so I put it on the car with the understanding that it would likely run the same as before -- and it does. At least I managed to move it out of my driveway under its own power. Now...with that being said, my PC version pump is on it's way and I'm planning to send it off for a pro-rebuild. I've read and read on a variety of websites and have decided this is the safest alternative to either slapping it on the car or going through it myself.

Again, I have rebuilt myriad varied assemblies over the years and fear virtually no mechanical device. However, I also understand that discretion is the better part of valor.

I have a garage for the car, and while it's in there it won't eat, s**t or shed so I have decided to let it rest. However, with that being said, unless the differences are subtle between the poppet/pencil pump on an engine equipped with the pencil injectors, all told I think the car runs OK, considering...more to come once I get the correct pump on this car. I think the next topic I will investigate with be smoke...what's normal and what isn't. Right now I don't think I can properly judge how much smoke is OK at hot idle considering the engine has the incorrect pump on it for the application.

Well, I got the PC Pump on there and I was grateful that the car started up pretty easily. After careful consideration I decided to go through this pump myself, being happy to find it in very good condition inside. Someone had it professionally rebuilt in the past and spent some money doing it. EID equipped and it appears to have a new head on it as well. All I had to do was clean the outside, flush the inside with clean fuel and vroom. To get the car to start I only had to bleed the low PSI side. Tonight I'm letting some RTV cure, tomorrow I'll set the idle and make a road test...

...and no I didn't RTV the pump back together...that was for the intake crossover, to manifold LOL :0

Glad to hear you've got the right pump:)It should perform perfectly now.

Well, I got the car running today, facing the engine from the front of the car, I had the pump lined up to the adapter with the pump just a shade to the left of the adapter line mark and it seemed a little grumpy starting and didn't have a whole lot of get up and go. I brought it back and moved it barely to the right of that mark (where I found the very first pump at anyway) and it seems to run very well.

I noticed the throttle response is very linear now as opposed to the mechanical light load advance on the previous two pumps which seemed to be all the juice at light throttle and then a dead pedal the rest of the way. With the old pump all the accelerator pedal seemed to do was change the transmission shift points.

All told, I'm very happy now. I ordered myself a Kent-Moore Tach-N-Time online (used), so next week I can time it properly. Thanks again for all the support! I'm sure I'm going to be coming back to the well for more soon!!

Better to time it by the "seat of the pants" The tach n time was a joke.

Most 5.7 ran better advanced with the pump leaning toward the drivers side by about 1/16th of an inch.

A follow up to my repairs:

First, Diesel Pro is right. The Tach-N-Time is a joke. I struggled with that thing for a few hours before I got what I thought were reasonable results. The factory shop manual says to disconnect the alternator 2-wire connector before timing the engine and I think I know why. The tach-n-time doesn't like any other electronics operating around it. I didn't get good RPM and timing readings until I did as instructed. Then, I'm not sure if I can trust what I got. With the pump a shade to the left (driver's side, let's be consistent as in all service publications), I noted that per tach-n-time I was grossly over advanced, some 6 degrees. I shut the engine off, moved the pump to line up with the pump adapter perfectly and tried again. Now I showed it approximately -0.5 deg. I thought OK...let's see. I reset the idle to spec which I found had me turning the screw back quite a bit, giving me a rough idle. I went with it though.

With that being said, I left the timing alone and took a 80-mile trip this weekend to see how things went. This was a mix of some city, mostly country (60 MPH) and interstate travel and I returned 26 MPG. I attest that to correct PC pump I installed on the car. I have no idea what retarding the timing did or didn't do for me. I should interject that I subsequently had to turn the idle up, since on braking or braking coming down a hill, my "STOP ENGINE OIL PRESS" light flickered or came on for a second or two. I wasn't sure if that was because the oil level was low or the idle was slow. I checked the oil and it was up to the full mark but to give that POS tach-n-time the benefit of the doubt, I overfilled it a quart and road tested again, to find it flickered on hard braking. I just turned the idle up a turn or two.

That brings me to another point. On my trip back from California, I had to have others change my oil so I didn't pay much attention to the oil level when I got it back, I just assumed the overfilled it. I specified 7 qts. at each change. Subsequently, I changed it myself, purposely shorting it by filling it with 6 qts. and it read full. I can't be sure if it has the wrong dipstick, oil pan or God knows what since the engine was changed. I do know the oil cooler appears to be connected inline to the radiator and the dipstick is correct for the RWD application (per my shop manual). Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again!

I found out I had the wrong dipstick in the engine. I recently acquired a running 5.7L out of a 1983 Cadillac Deville and that dipstick was yellow, mine was cream colored. I compared them side by side and found the full mark at different places. Not quite sure what that cream colored dipstick belongs to, it does specify Diesel oil on it though, and it looks just like the one that was in my car (hole to pull it out of the engine is centered on the stick). I'm going to start a rebuild on this '83 engine, it's a factory original engine from a car that ran well.

It will be nice to be able to take my time gathering parts and rebuilding this one. It is the correct engine for the application after all...more to come on that subject.

There is something so unique about having a diesel in a big car like this. I've wanted one for years, ever since my Uncle bought his '81 Electra with the 350 diesel in it. After he died my cousin acquired it and seeing her go 400-500 miles on a tank of fuel just amazed me. I also have a soft spot for big old Cadillacs and man this car generates a lot of attention...from the un-initiated asking, "Hey why is that thing making so much noise?" right before I stick the green handled pump into it at the fuel station...to the guy who stopped me at a rest stop asking me if he could take a movie of me starting the engine to send to his friend who didn't believe these cars came with Diesel engines. I'm looking forward to getting it back on the road soon.


I have an 84 98 w/ a 5.7 diesel. It's hard to hate a full size car that gets in the neighborhood of 30 mpg in this kind of economy.
I can't count how many younger people tell me "I didn't know they made a diesel one of those"

I just got an 84 Olds 98 Regency Brougham with a 350 D in it in February. Not nearly as nice as the Cadillac but fully loaded nonetheless. Been working on it steadily to get it roadworthy and am satisfied it is now. I even managed to get the Tempmatic working! Has a factory CB and all. Good stuff. A real road trip car, this one's a 4-door, gray with a velour interior. Plan on taking it from FL to TN this weekend. I pulled it into the Diesel pump at the local Racetrac and a guy asked me with a puzzled look on his face, that's a Diesel? I gave him a quick tour LMAO.

I just got an 84 Olds 98 Regency Brougham with a 350 D in it in February. Not nearly as nice as the Cadillac but fully loaded nonetheless. Been working on it steadily to get it roadworthy and am satisfied it is now. I even managed to get the Tempmatic working! Has a factory CB and all. Good stuff. A real road trip car, this one's a 4-door, gray with a velour interior. Plan on taking it from FL to TN this weekend. I pulled it into the Diesel pump at the local Racetrac and a guy asked me with a puzzled look on his face, that's a Diesel? I gave him a quick tour LMAO.

Can't fault the 98 for being a smooth ride especially next to the Isuzu I have , which rides like an oxcart and can barely do highway speeds.
Mine has a factory CB too as well and I was glad I got the air conditioning blowing cold for the summer.

Oh yeah, mine has the factory R-12 still in it, it's like opening a freezer door once it gets settled in and before the tempmatic kicks in. You can see your breath in what comes outta the vents. I put a new HD clutch fan in it after verifying it was the correct application and it cools to beat hell.