Alright, I'm really frustrated with the exhaust temps I'm seeing with my truck.

It seems like the LLY's run hotter than any other diesel truck on the road today.

I don't know if the Predator is my entire problem, or if these trucks just run too hot for their own good. For example--pulling my 20' cargo trailer today with both my commercial lawn mowers in it at 75 mph down the interstate, I could easily hit 1400°F pre-turbo while on the 65 HP tune. This is by no means a heavy load for this truck, folks! I pulled across the scales, and I'm at 14,000 lbs gross--that's with me in the truck, as the whole package sails down the road.

When I'm on the 100 HP tune totally empty, I can easily hit 1300° on the same stretch of road with the cruise left on 75 mph.

I guess the most frustrating part is that I've got all kinds of power left, but the EGTs get out of hand. I had a Dodge Cummins dually pass me today pulling a BIG 5ver going up one hill. While there's no way to tell how hot he was running, he had no trouble passing me, that's for sure.

It seems like these LLYs are potentially the duds of the diesel world right now. They don't make near the power, they have widespread overheating issues, and they run extremely hot EGTs! (I am lucky in that my truck has NEVER gotten past about 210 on coolant temp.)

Going up big hills, I'm lucky to build more than about 17 psi boost, while the exhaust temps just keep climbing.

While in Spokane, I talked with a Powerstroke owner at the dragstrip. He had a heavier truck than mine that was turning in consistently faster times. Running one big SCT tune, he said he never hit more than 1300°F pre-turbo in the quarter! I was over 1600° by the 8th!

Basically, I'm wondering how all the other guys are towing with big power and keeping the exhaust temps in check. I know I could get bigger exhaust, etc., but is this going to help significantly?

You should not have to invest $5,000 + on another turbo or a bigger turbo to keep EGTs with a 65 HP tune in check!

I towed a 6000lbs gooseneck for 500 miles round trip today into a pretty good headwind. With the PPE tuner on level 2 and my VA on kill I never saw over 1400 degrees (WOT passing uphill) and average 800-950 at 75mph. Tons of power too. I really like this combo for pulling.

I pull my 5er that combined with me and my truck is maybe 16k and with edge on 1x3 only I see 1350 pretty easy and have seen over 1400 before pulling. Here recently pulling up a slight hill I hit like 1370, and coolant hit 225! I hate the sound of that da** fan.

edited edge level

i never tow and i see 1100-1300 easy on hot days and if i get on it a bit also. might want to consider water/meth. i agree though we shouldn't be seeing this.

I realize that I could HELP the problem with a host of things like bigger exhaust, water/meth injection, etc., but I really don't think EGT's should even become an issue when pulling a light 6,000 pound trailer using a tow tune.

I think the EGTs are way too hot on my truck even when I'm totally empty and at stock power!

Maybe I'm just totally wet here. What will other stock trucks run EGT-wise?

The predator is a big part of your problem. But you know that already.

The predator is a big part of your problem. But you know that already.
I agree.They allways seem to have higher egt than others.

Do a few small improvements such as get rid of the predator and get rid of the cat. I bet you'll see 200 degrees cooler.

Alright, so what would I be happiest with then EGT-wise?

I'm a power-freak just like all the rest. When I'm running a giant tune for empty drag racing, etc. I realize to expect really high EGTs--that doesn't bother me because it's just a fact when you're fueling that much.

I can wait on TTS, etc. to come out with the huge power. I'd like something that will allow me to utilize my $$ spent on the Suncoast III when towing. Is it Juice time?!

Try the PPE and Van Aaken stack. Good power in kill settings and good towing manors in the settings I mentioned although I have not tried others.

I tried the EZ and the Predator was 75 degrees cooler. They are also working on a cooler running tune. I've seen 1475 degrees stock on 1 of my LLY's.

I do know that LLYs generally run hotter, but my truck acts as if it defuels to keep the EGTs at no more than 1250° when I'm running stock.

I'm concerned about turbo life, etc. at these really high temps. I guess only time will tell--I've got a pyro, I'm doing oil analysis, and as far as I'm concerned I'm covered until 100,000 miles. Maybe I should just quit worrying about it!

How much of a problem do the LB7's have?

If your reading the attitude monitor, remember its digital and mostly reading a flame front and not actual temperature so look for an average not an instant temperature reading. Analog guages are more consistant when trying to get an actual temp. Just like gasoline engines the egt's go up just as much when their rich as they do when their lean. The placement of the probe is important as well. If its directly in front of an exhaust port its reading nothing but the flame, not actual cylinder temps.

I have a DiPricol analog setup mounted using the HOOT method--in the passenger side exhaust manifold just behind the last cylinder.

That's where the "pros" here recommended I put it...

Ive seen my egts get way up there, however, with no load on the truck, i never really pay it much attention. Its hard for me to believe that unloaded conditions would hurt anything unless held for an extended period of time. Never heard of the dipricol. Where can you get some information on it? Sounds like a cool piece.

Just out of curiousity coyote, and i'm sure you do, but is your exhaust upgraded? it's not in your tag, but I'm assuming it is.

Also Running on the 100hp tune will jack up you egt's considerably, those settings are probably not ment to run around on all the time.

TTS Tow Tune! I know, I know it's too expensive, or it takes too long to get, or no hand held tuner available, or I don't like Steve, or I can fool the ECM with some untested, unproven "Billy rigged boost fooler", :blahblah: but whatever, go ahead and over speed your turbo, it’s your dime and you earned it.


For the record, I've had Steve's tow tune over a year now without needing a single revision!


Still wondering why Steve’s stuff is a little more money or why it takes so long for him to release a new tune? :rant:

RaceHemi are you saying that the TTS reduces stock EGT's when towing or are you just advertising Steve's products? I'm sorry if this sounds smart@$$ I really want to know. I'm in the market for a good tow tune, and like RDL I can hit 1475 easy when towing in stock form.

Alright, I'm really frustrated with the exhaust temps I'm seeing with my truck.

It seems like the LLY's run hotter than any other diesel truck on the road today.

I don't know if the Predator is my entire problem, or if these trucks just run too hot for their own good. For example--pulling my 20' cargo trailer today with both my commercial lawn mowers in it at 75 mph down the interstate, I could easily hit 1400°F pre-turbo while on the 65 HP tune. This is by no means a heavy load for this truck, folks! I pulled across the scales, and I'm at 14,000 lbs gross--that's with me in the truck, as the whole package sails down the road.

When I'm on the 100 HP tune totally empty, I can easily hit 1300° on the same stretch of road with the cruise left on 75 mph.

I guess the most frustrating part is that I've got all kinds of power left, but the EGTs get out of hand. I had a Dodge Cummins dually pass me today pulling a BIG 5ver going up one hill. While there's no way to tell how hot he was running, he had no trouble passing me, that's for sure.

It seems like these LLYs are potentially the duds of the diesel world right now. They don't make near the power, they have widespread overheating issues, and they run extremely hot EGTs! (I am lucky in that my truck has NEVER gotten past about 210 on coolant temp.)

Going up big hills, I'm lucky to build more than about 17 psi boost, while the exhaust temps just keep climbing.

While in Spokane, I talked with a Powerstroke owner at the dragstrip. He had a heavier truck than mine that was turning in consistently faster times. Running one big SCT tune, he said he never hit more than 1300°F pre-turbo in the quarter! I was over 1600° by the 8th!

Basically, I'm wondering how all the other guys are towing with big power and keeping the exhaust temps in check. I know I could get bigger exhaust, etc., but is this going to help significantly?

You should not have to invest $5,000 + on another turbo or a bigger turbo to keep EGTs with a 65 HP tune in check!

One thing that I would check before you throw in the towel is the accuracy of your EGT probe. I work on turbocharged aircraft and I routinely find bad EGT probes or loose/dirty wiring connections. Any added resistance in the wiring will make the EGT read higher than actual. You could switch out the probe it's self with a new probe. The manufacturer of the probe and gage should have a method to check accuracy.
It would not be very funny if you spent all kinds of time & money just to find out that the EGT indication was in error. Censored


Britt

I'll check the probe, but I really don't think it's malfunctioning. It's only a few months old, and it acts the same now as it did when it was new. But that is a good idea--I'll try it.

And no, I still have stock exhaust guys. I know that I can reduce EGTs with a bigger exhaust, but I think these LLYs run too hot even at stock power levels. I shouldn't have to upgrade the exhaust to avoid engine damage!

Can anyone chime in on real-world results of EGTs before and after an exhaust install?

Unfortunately I will only be able to speak on the catalytic converter. I did not have the egt probe in place when I put the cat back on. However when the catalytic converter was removed I saw about 60-75 degree cooler temps. Also on my truck in idle the a/c is good for about another 45 degree increase in egt temps. As far as the rest of the four inch exhaust I would have to believed it is good for about 100-150 degree lower egt's. Hope this helped.

Eric

Mine dropped about 180* after the exhaust. Probably not enough for most peoples piece of mind.

Well, even 150 degrees would help out quite a bit. I think exhaust combined with a different tune might be what I'm after.

Exhaust dropped mine about 150-160 and the kitty did nothing for temps.

coyotekid,

You might try a couple of the overheating mods to reduce CAC and IAT's, both directly influence EGT's. Sealing the stack and providing some cool air intake should provide some measurable EGT reduction benefits. If you are running Predator and tranny upgrade you really should upgrade the exhaust IMHO. Don't be afraid to lose the kitty either! You will like dat sound bro!

These trucks do tend to run a bit hotter, unfortunately with more power normally comes more heat. Much like the LB7 we're still finding ways to tweak the LLY for max power and performance. Good luck! JJ

Ya, I know what you mean about pissin you off! I have one of those lemons also, I currently have just the edge/ juice attitude, with the 4inch exhaust and the afe stage 2 intake and cant utilize towing in level 1 without running the egts off the end of the gauge, the thing defuels on light loads, my lb7 could run a 90hp tune and pull heavy all day long with 1300 degrees on an incline, this pos runs 1300 on flats with your foot out of it! They so called raised the torque and hp on this motor, well you might as well de tuned it because you cant use this truck like the lb7. With the variable vain turbo, you are either in it all the way or out of it I personally do not like the power curve or the transmission, by the way does any sucker out there want a 05 duramax/allison 4x4 k2500hd with 4inch stainless turbo back, edge juice attitude combo, afe stage 2? I am jumping ship of this pos! Truck has 2500 miles on it silver birch, rhino liner over the rails.

The predator is a big part of your problem. But you know that already.


Depending on where in the RPM band you are, the Predator has lower EGT's than the Hypertech Level 3. The Edge level 1 and Predator 65 have extremely close power levels. Hypertech similar power, but less.

The upcoming revisions from Diablo have the HP and TQ improved with lower yet EGT's...

Depending on where in the RPM band you are, the Predator has lower EGT's than the Hypertech Level 3. The Edge level 1 and Predator 65 have extremely close power levels. Hypertech similar power, but less.

The upcoming revisions from Diablo have the HP and TQ improved with lower yet EGT's...

Edge level 1 is the same as predator 65?? So what is Edge level 3 equal to on the predator?

ok here is my 2 cents hypertech level one i cant get over about 1150 thats up a steep grade im going for level two and then three and ill will report back

The Hypertech level 1 produces stock or below stock power in my testing hence the lower EGT's. Now it may have rescaled the APP so it makes more with less power, but I have no plans to test this.

As for Predator vs Edge, I chose the 65HP pred plot from the release version and needed a comparative. The Edge level 1 with low boost on 3 matched on the same truck, same day, same dyno...

rubix, please add a signature with your truck info. That way we all have a apples to apples comparison.

Hey guys,

I run the Edge-Attitude on 3-5 all the time and can get 1150 EGT going uphill empty all the time. It usually hangs right around there and won't exceed that unless I really lean on it. Towing my 24 foot race trailer with a 2850 pound racecar, tools and spares though is a different deal altogether. I tow on 2-5 when loaded and have to back out of it on grades to avoid going over 1350. I reset my high limit to 1450 so that it wouldn't backdown so much as I was often seeing 100 percent...(i'm sure 3:73's and 38" tires dont help either) so now it's kinda up to me to police the right foot. I've let it spike to 1400 but don't roll hills at more than 1300. I have noticed that locking out of 5th and keeping the RPM's up really helps keep the EGT's under control... Makes a real roar now that it's straight piped! I have thankfully never had the fan issues some of you guys are talking about though. I now also have an AFE insert filter, and I'm noticing that boost levels are pretty low. I rarely see more than 14 to 16LBS. How can we generate more boost? That should help keep the EGT's down right?

Fingers and Kennedy are both working on safe and efficient methods of fooling the computer for boost gains.

Spin #2 ;) for the overheating mods. Seal the stack, install a 3" OEM air dam extension, and do the airbox mod guys are doing on the overheating threads and you will see lower IAT's and CAC temps which will lower EGT's. Plus your mpg's will improve, more hp/tq, and you won't overheat. My LLY runs like a different truck and is yielding mpg improvements while towing. :D I'm happy! ;) I'm making a long run next week into the mountains at 25-26k lbs GCW and should have more intel to share. :cool:

Takes about 30 minutes and very little money to get er' done. To date we're having very good success with very few exceptions depending mostly upon mods. :confused:

dmax500hp, you have most everything you need for a screaming truck with the exception of a tranny upgrade. The overheating mods may be worth a try. Your likely going to take it in the shorts trying to trade out or sell such a new truck. Your indicators sound like your engine compartment is heatsoaked and cooking the engine with too high IAT's and CAC temps. Are you running high ECT's when towing as well, above 210*+++. Ally running over 200*? If you haven't already you might read killerbees thread on the overheating analysis. It might be just the prescription your truck needs. Just a suggestion. ;)

We're making progress with the LLY. ;) LB7 was no different in its infancy, numerous problems. JJ :)

... and do the airbox mod guys are doing on the overheating threads and you will see lower IAT's and CAC temps which will lower EGT's.

JJ, is this the swiss cheese mod you are referring to?

Dieseldan...yes that is the one

Ya JJ, I need to stick it out with the rest of the guys and get this thing fixed. I just have a hard time building around gm's $45,000 junk! If you know what I mean. I like the truck other than the egts, fan, terrible mileage and lousy shifting transmission.

I'm not sure what I'm missing here, but I cannot understand what the big deal is about 1300* EGT pre-turbo? I typically see 1600* to 1700* pre-turbo on my turbo/IC race car motor (gas) by the end of a 1/4 mile pass. I have yet to melt down any turbo wheel, intake or exhaust valve, piston, piston ring, or head at these temps. I've even seen EGT's in the mid 1700's on my pop's motor. Maybe someone can fill me in as to why the HD diesel motor is so much more sensitive to heat???

Because you are only running a 1/4mile @ a time probably right. These sorry bastards will run 1400 all day long if ya would let em.

dmax500HP,

Congratulations on your poor choice of vehicles. The guy is looking for help, not someone to piss on his headstone.

JJ is not talking about a swiss cheese airbox. Far from it.

Coyotekid, do you feel as though the truck PERFORMS? That is, does it get up and go or feel lackluster? Is your mpg bad compared to others?

If you expect those tunes to give you cool performance with a stock exhaust, I don't understand. Your numbers sound spot on to me. You need a good exhaust, no cat.

Then a CAI, and a little effort cooling the truck, a couple easy, cheap cooling flow enhancements. It doesn't take much effort

Because you are only running a 1/4mile @ a time probably right. These sorry bastards will run 1400 all day long if ya would let em.

They'll do that STOCK and live so what's the big deal? Apparently GM/Dmax is confident in their product. Emissions is pushing temps up higher and higher with every change...

Hug a tree, up goes the EGT!!):h

dmax500HP,


JJ is not talking about a swiss cheese airbox. Far from it.



OK Killerbee comeout with it, what is he talking about? Is there a thread somewhere?):h

Sorry, been busy. Swiss cheesing the airbox just invites more hot air into the intake, bad idea! What I'm talking about is the 5.3 or 6.0 airbox mod to pull cooler air in through the fenders. This is where we take the top of our existing airbox and the bottom of those boxes that have sealed extrusions that insert into the fender vents behind that foil attached to the fender right beside the air intake.

Guys, just follow KB's advice and then post back, you'll be happy! I'm off to get Fingers dam installed, oil changed, alignment, tires balanced, new air filter and fresh tank of dino for our run to the mountains. Talk to you all later. JJ :)

OK Killerbee comeout with it, what is he talking about? Is there a thread somewhere?):h

Look HERE (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41827)
and HERE (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40080)

I am getting ready to do a thread on the Cold Air install, but there are some references to it HERE (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=675431#post675431)

Sorry, been busy. Swiss cheesing the airbox just invites more hot air into the intake, bad idea! What I'm talking about is the 5.3 or 6.0 airbox mod to pull cooler air in through the fenders. This is where we take the top of our existing airbox and the bottom of those boxes that have sealed extrusions that insert into the fender vents behind that foil attached to the fender right beside the air intake.

Guys, just follow KB's advice and then post back, you'll be happy! I'm off to get Fingers dam installed, oil changed, alignment, tires balanced, new air filter and fresh tank of dino for our run to the mountains. Talk to you all later. JJ :)


We learned a long time ago that this box did not allow enough air in for the Dmax, AND resulted in a lot of moisture being sucked in and wetting the filter. You will need a larger area for entry into this box.

We learned a long time ago that this box did not allow enough air in for the Dmax, AND resulted in a lot of moisture being sucked in and wetting the filter. You will need a larger area for entry into this box.

...and we learned only recently that ingesting 240 degree air caused an overheat, with thermally induced power loss. The benefit to the heavy hauler, so outweighs the possible downside of a little moisture. I agree it adds a bit of resistance, that is easily remedied with a box bottom mod, if you want to bring your truck to the track, But it is not necessary for street users., and there are no known issues with the extra 10 inches of resistance. Having air to combust that isn't 150 over ambient so outweighs the possible performance hit (which is undocumented to my knowledge).

The cold air mod is good for 1-2 mpg (towing) to the heavy high drag tow vehicle in hot wx. Worth it? For some folks that is a 30% improvement. These are not exagerated.

If anyone is interested, I will be happy to do a full resistance comparison of the 2 configurations. What I have done already, is enough for me.

Funny, there are thousands of trucks with gaping swiss chees mods, that did absolutely nothing for the performance of this truck. I have no idea where that started, but it is the most worthless thing I have seen.

disclaimer: I stand by these statements for stock vehicles, not 500 HP ones.

http://www.kennedydiesel.com/dmaxairintake.html

Bulletin # 01-06-04-050


I would not recommend this box without increasing the area of entry. I've seen simple juiced and even stock trucks pull in the filter minder and set SES codes even in dry conditions.

I agree, in thos applications, this box should be modified. Of the 4 or 5 I installed (unmodified) in the last few weeks nobody has set off any codes. Maybe that will happen, I could see it happening.

Also , that bulletin was written by the same folks that gave us an overheating truck.

Just one thing to highlight. If you lower intake temps 100 degrees, you lower post turbo temps 130 degrees. Breathing hot air throws turbo performance down the tubes, but worse, that extra heat has to try to be shed by the CAC, in the end, it can't on long uphills. So the extra heat goes into the rad, as well as the cylinder head, in the form of thin hot air. Power loss...overheat

I'd think that the average guy here has some form of programmer/chip on his truck increasing the air flow demand on this box...

Maybe we can get the 2006 box to fit provided the MAF signal is consistent with ours.

Fingers had excellent results with a simple shroud extension to cut out the "prop wash" across the box IIRC. I did not see it on his truck, but we discussed it.

Maybe we can get the 2006 box to fit provided the MAF signal is consistent with ours.



Robsauto is spearheading to see if this is the case. I would like to see that also. But it will be pricey. I can do a gas box with a mod for $90. GM sells that for over $230 or something. The new one won't be any less. Plus you have to buy a tube and an element. I am guessing $400+

I ...for one..have not planned to get a chip at all. I am happy with the h.p. of my "05" ...Much better than my old 6.5 TD.My only possible mod...other than what K.B. will do, would be a 4" exhaust.

Good discussion! I learn a lot just off the droppings you heavyweights leave behind. As always very much appreciated! :D

KB, I for one would be interested in seeing the pressures on the airbox under the following scenarios:
(1) Stock airbox
(2) Stock airbox with fender foil removed
(3) Stock top and 5.3 bottom pulling through fender only
(4) Stock top and 5.3 bottom pulling through fender and feed from bottom tube from cold air source.

I don't ask for much now do I? ;)

Since removing the foil on fender of my truck the OEM airbox appears to be getting some cooler air from the fender even without being direct fed such as through the 5.3 bottom intake tubes. Under the premise that air follows the path of least resistance isn't it possible the airbox can pull air from the fender openings even minus the 5.3 extrusions? No water intrusion issues under that scenario. Question to be answered is what gains are being had under each scenario. :confused:

I was going to do the airbox mod this afternoon but I'll hold off until we have a definite read on this. Certainly don't want to be towing up any mountains and have issues. :o:

Everything done today except the Fingers dam install. The shop couldn't squeeze it in today. Trying again tomorrow. JJ :)

JJ

If only I could get away from the shop long enough to do some more testing. These shroud kits are keeping me too busy. But I will get to it.

You have the box, It takes only 5 minutes to change it out. If you aren't going through any rushing water, I suggest you do it.

The shroud and stack seal mods I sent you should be there by now. I will e-mail you a comprehensive set of instructions, just getting that wrapped up. I would really like it if you could have all 3 mods for your trip. Push comes to shove, you can put the old box back in with one flat blade.

FWIW, using the stock box, foil removed, when the fan comes on, it does no real good. The seal (of the 6.0 oem box) is necessary, and helpful.

Call me when you have any questions. I really want you to have a great ride this trip, and the CAI is important. Trust.

OK KB, I'll get er' done. Just have to find a clamp for that corner. I'll take a picture of that corner so you all will know what I'm talking about.

Shrouds are here, just letting the sun flatten them out before installed. I e-mailed you with a couple of questions. I'll check back in later. Have to run to the hardware store for more parts. JJ :)

You won't need any parts for what I sent you.

I am doing an install in the morning, till 12 your time. Free after that.

Based on what I am reading, I SHOULD NOT "swiss cheese" the box. I was fully prepared to do this mod but now am waiting for more info. I don't seem to have a overheating issue now, but will start towing a 5vr next month and have a 1100 mile trip planned. Don't want ANY issues since it will be my first trip! :o:

dieseldan, you are correct, no swiss cheese! ;) When the fan engages and fills the engine compartment with all that hot stack air you will just be providing a direct source for sucking in all that hot air. Have to draw air from outside the engine compartment. The modified 5.3 airbox utilizes two extrusions into the fender openings to obtain this. Some have run 4" metal vent tubing to obtain CAI. One of them should post their results FYI. JJ :)

The Hypertech level 1 produces stock or below stock power in my testing hence the lower EGT's. Now it may have rescaled the APP so it makes more with less power, but I have no plans to test this.

As for Predator vs Edge, I chose the 65HP pred plot from the release version and needed a comparative. The Edge level 1 with low boost on 3 matched on the same truck, same day, same dyno...

ok i pulled 10000 lbs with my 05 lly 6in lift 35s stock exhaust with the hyper on stage two. I easily saw 1300 to 1400 pre turbo at 65 mph up a decent grade. i dont think it would take much to hit 1500. i know kennedy says that level one makes less power than stock but i noticably feel more power and see higher egts than stock on stage one so thats just my common sense dyno. i dont think ill even try level 3 to risky. my buddy pulls all day 75 up hillls with 14500 lbs on his toy hauler. no pyro hypertech stage 3 and has been for 25000 miles. no probs. hypertech says run it on 3 as long as your within recommended towing capacitys. I think tuners are just good for bragging rights and fun with no load, if your going to pull the dmax can handle it stock.

OK KB, I'll get er' done. Just have to find a clamp for that corner. JJ :)

JJ: I just received my 5.3 airbox. I am working on a way to secure that corner with something more permanent than a clamp. If it works like I think, it will provide a screw attachment similar to the remaining three that will be as secure and just as easy to remove as the others. If it works, I'll post pictures for all to see.

One thing that did concern me after installing this airbox, it appears that my restriction indicator moved closer to the red zone. I am interested in what you guys have worked up with a supplemental intake tube. Is this tube attached to the front side (grill) or bottom and where does the tube end go?

Thanks.