I initially placed a topic under "loss of power", and I have found a Chevy Dealer, who may have pinpointed the problem but they are not sure. I have a bad Mass flow sensor, and a fuel pump that is putting out too much pressure. Here is the rub, the Chevy Factory Rep stated that since I had a K&N filter installed, they would not warranty the Mass flow sensor, and since I once had performance software installed (Hypertech), that Chevy would not honor their warranty, and they have issued new bulletins to their dealers stating so. Has anyone else had this problem, and if the rep is just side stepping the responsibility, do any of you have something I can show the factory rep. Thanks to all.

Are you at 1fatcats dealer? (sorry fatcat I couldn't resist). The magnuson-moss act is all you have. It basically states they have to prove your mod.caused the exact failure. If it did, well you know the rest. Do not be afraid to go to small claims court or get a lawyer. You should start buy being a little pushy with the dealer. K&N give me a break!

Basically they need to show what you did caused the damage. Sometimes an over-oiled aftermarket air filter will deposit a film on the MAF sensor wires. Maybe it only needs a cleaning. I'm not sure but the bad MAF could be telling the ECM to raise pressure.

Anyway, I done see how a performance program could hurt your hp pump. The rail pressure control valve couold be causing the pump to go off. They are known to go bad. I had one replaced. I would try another dealer and be prepared to answer to them with as much as you can find out here. Not all dealers are so "tight"

Try cleanig the MAF with alcohol or contact cleaner... this has happened to a few people and they've been able to just clean it up and get it working...

Ox

I have a buddy with a 2002 F**D Powerjoke going thru nearly the same thing. After running a K&N for a short time ( the stealership noticed it during routine maint. ), He switched back to factory air filters. 30,000 miles later, #8 cylinder is washed out and turbo fan edges are worn. You think the Stealership remembered that he was ( heavy on the was ) a good customer ? Nope, they remembered the K&N filter in his truck ! So Sorry, No Warranty ! By the way, You need a new $10K engine !http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


I told him not to buy a F**D !http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif And NO, I haven't said I TOLD YOU SO . NO, Really !!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


Thorco69, I really hope you have better luck with GM !

R U tellin me my K&N could void my warranty? They are on the shelve at the auto store with the rest of the filters. They are crossrefernced in the book. They are one of the best filters know to mankind. Just ask a baja 500 participant! K&N needs to renegotiate witht he big 3 or start putting a warning label on ther filter boxes. What a joke! I would tell the dealers to jump off a cliff. There has to be more going on here than meets the eye.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gif

whats the code set for the mass air flow. i am a tech an beteave ther is a reprogram to correct false codes that may lead to maf sensor.i have seen k/n installs set check engine lights. and your pump should be warranty these are know to over fuel. i just replaced one today.
if they keep telling you to pound sand take it to another dealer.....

You're supposed to find the "other dealer" before the factory tech rep gets involved. Unless he goes a long way out, it's going to be the same tech rep at the next dealer. If there is going to be any kind of significant work done, I think the tech rep will have to know about it.

Yes, K&N is one of the best filters you can use for increased air flow and associated increased power. However, all they stop from getting into your engine are the really big rocks. Sure, racers use them but they aren't all that interested in engine life. I saw some tests on gas engines a few years ago. Air flow was greatly increased with the K&N but at the cost of wear on the engine. Makes sense to me. I can't imagine a significant increase in volume with a filter that will stop smaller particles. UNIFilter seemed to be the best compromise. Air flow almost as good as the K&N but with much better filtration.

Thats odd that the dealership would void the warranty due to having a K&N on the truck. I wonder what my dealership would say since the parts department has a K&N display set up & sells them!

My dealership sells the K&N filter kit for our dmax's.... I would push the issue a little harder....you'll get it covered. I went through a similar thing when my front diff went out (and I have 315's on my truck)....don't be an as%, but be persistant.

Thats crap about K&N filtration abilaty. It is a very good filter period. Big stuff only, my butt. I have put countless hours on my Bronco at the Sandunes. I take my motors apart myself. No extra wear from dirt. The baja 500 puts all kinds of dirt particles in the air. From micrscopic to clauds. Same as the sand dunes or a country road for that mattter. K&N works just fine. If you over oil one or damage the gauze then you did not follow the instructions! The oil on the filter traps more dirt than you could ever imagine! I am sorry for the tone, it just makes me a little peeved to hear a warranty being voided by an air cleaner that is sold in the parts dept. It also makes me mad to hear people tell you a K&N will not work just so they can sell you there version. Rant Out!

thorco69, don't let them blow smoke up your rear end, If I were you I would be calling K&N and talking to someone there, make sure you have paper and pencil and write down the time and phone# of everyone you talk too, then take your truck to a good garage that has good mechanics and have them go over it, and have them write up a report, then your next step is small claims court, you do not need an attorney to do this, they will give you the papers to fill out, your going to file against your dealer and also GM, its going to cost you a small amount to file these charges, make sure you have the name and address of your dealer (and Owner) your also going to need the name and address of GM or GMCs Head Corporate office, then you will get a notice in the mail telling you when and were the hearing is going to be held, when you go make sure you have your sh*t together, you should get K&N to send you a signed letter stating that the use of there product does nothing to harm the Durimax engine, also take the mechanics report with you, better yet pay the mechanic to go with you, and yes I sued GM in small claims court and won, believe me they change there tune when they see your not going roll over and die after they kick you in the crotch.

Just an added note. As far as I know if the delership, GM, or parties named in the small claims court do not show up to the court, (all parties with out attorney's) YOU WIN by default!

Patrick

Here is some info. that might be helpful,


Dear K&N Consumer:

K&N Engineering, Inc., is informed that some automobile dealers are telling their customers that the factory warranty on their motor vehicles is “void,” if a K&N replacement air filter for an original equipment (OE) air filter has been installed. K&N finds such instances disturbing and while K&N does not purport to give legal advice, it would like to refer you to the federal Consumer Product Warranties law, often referred to as the Magnuson-Moss Act, which states, in part, in Title 15, United States Code, Section 2302, subdivision (c), as follows:
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<TD>“No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumer's using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade, or corporate name; except that the prohibition of this subsection may be waived by the [Federal Trade] Commission if –

(1) the warrantor satisfies the Commission that the warranted product will function properly only if the article or service so identified is used in connection with the warranted product, and

(2) the Commission finds that such a waiver is in the public interest. The Commission shall identify in the Federal Register, and permit public comment on, all applications for waiver of the prohibition of this subsection, and shall publish in the Federal Register its disposition of any such application, including the reasons therefor.”</TD></TR></T></TABLE></CENTER></DIV>

Under this federal statute, a manufacturer, who issues a warranty on your motor vehicle, is prohibited from requiring you to use a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, or other service or maintenance item, unless the Federal Trade Commission waives this prohibition. K&amp;N interprets this law to also prohibit the motor vehicle manufacturer from restricting your use of a particular brand of air filter, oil filter, etc. You may also have greater rights under the consumer warranty laws applicable in your state.

K&amp;N is unaware of any exemption or waiver granted by the Federal Trade Commission to any motor vehicle manufacturer, which pertains to air filters. Therefore, K&amp;N considers any threat to void your factory warranty, or the actual voiding of your factory warranty, for the installation of a K&amp;N replacement air filter, to be a violation of federal law and, perhaps, a violation of state law, depending upon the laws of your state.

If you have encountered a motor vehicle dealer, who refuses to perform warranty repairs on your vehicle, solely because you have installed a K&amp;N replacement air filter, then we ask that you request that the dealer set forth the warranty denial, in writing, together with a written statement that the warranty on your vehicle has been voided, as a result of the installation of the K&amp;N air filter, and that you send a copy of this written statement to K&amp;N. While K&amp;N cannot act as your legal advocate or assume responsibility for enforcing your warranty rights under state and federal law, we will write to the dealership and your motor vehicle manufacturer and insist that they provide a legal basis for their position.

In addition to any action K&amp;N may take, you should consult an attorney and various state and federal agencies, who may be able to assist you in protecting and enforcing your warranty rights, if you encounter a motor vehicle dealer’s or manufacturer’s refusal to honor your motor vehicle warranty.



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Oldman,


<A name=WORD>A Word About Filtration Requirements</A>


There are few areas more confusing than identifying dirt retention requirements when it comes to air filters. Most vehicle owner’s manuals remain silent on the point. In fact, few air filter manufacturers publish any information as to the filtration efficiency of their filters. This stands in marked contrast to oil and fuel filters where there is a relatively large amount of information regarding filtration requirements and capabilities. Studies have shown most engine wear is caused by particles 10 to 20 microns in size. K&amp;N air filters, like most quality disposable air filters, provide excellent filtration of these particles. <?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P>


To ensure our air filters provide a high level of dirt protection, we regularly test our air filter designs using the testing procedure described above. Those tests demonstrate K&amp;N air filters generally achieve overall filtration efficiency in the range of 97% - 98%, while some of our air filter designs have achieved levels as high as 99%. The fact that our air filters at times reach overall filtration efficiencies as high as 99% while maintaining high airflow is a testament to the quality and capabilities of our oil impregnated cotton air filter medium.</O:P>
On occasion we see “new” air filter media’s developed and sold under the premise they provide increased levels of dirt filtration. More often than not, as opposed to quoting specific efficiency numbers, this “increased protection” is described as increased dirt retention capacity, meaning the filter can hold more dirt before requiring replacement. Remember, K&amp;N air filters have always provided a service life in excess of disposable filters and then only require cleaning and oiling for re-use. <O:P></O:P>
We encourage customers to do their homework and be aware of the filtration capabilities of an air filter before they buy. Our own testing has revealed wide differences in filtering capabilities. We were surprised to see some disposable paper air filters with an overall filtration efficiency as low as 93%. We hope we have provided enough information to ensure consumers know what they are getting when they buy a K&amp;N air filter.<O:P> </O:P>


<A name=MYTHS>Filtration 101 - A Deeper Cut</A>
Most people believe that all air filters function on a go/no go basis where dirt particles that are larger than the openings in the filter media are trapped while particles that are smaller than the openings can pass right through. A dry paper air filter does function in this manner. That’s why paper filters are so restrictive to air flow. The openings in this type of filter have to be very small to filter efficiently.
The oiled cotton media used in the K&amp;N air filter functions in an entirely different manner. There are scientific principles that determine how an air filter removes dirt particles from the air stream. The first of these principles is known as interception, which applies to dirt particles traveling with the air stream. Air flow will always take the shortest path and as the air is forced to flow around the filter’s fibers some of the particles will contact the sides of the fibers and be captured. These particles are then held in place by the oil or tacking agent in the fiber.
Ano

I wonder if my Escalade door handles and Steil bar grill will void my warranty? I can hear it now, "that grill restricts air flow and we are not covering your bad injectors" and those door handles are not OEM for this truck"......god help us all if they are looking that hard for stuff to void the warranty!

I initially placed a topic under "loss of power", and I have found a Chevy Dealer, who may have pinpointed the problem but they are not sure. I have a bad Mass flow sensor, and a fuel pump that is putting out too much pressure. Here is the rub, the Chevy Factory Rep stated that since I had a K&amp;N filter installed, they would not warranty the Mass flow sensor, and since I once had performance software installed (Hypertech), that Chevy would not honor their warranty, and they have issued new bulletins to their dealers stating so. Has anyone else had this problem, and if the rep is just side stepping the responsibility, do any of you have something I can show the factory rep. Thanks to all.


I know it's a matter of principle but if it is proven the Hot Wire was contaminated with KN oil it isn't up to the dealer to clean or replace ....


I would just suck it up clean it or replace it ... Their something like 40 bucks new ,I have two ....I swap out airboxes when I visit Mr Goodwrench and company ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gifEdited by: Mackin

I can just blackmail my service manager, hes running a K&amp;N and a Hypertech module in his Tahoe 5.3. Didnt someone just say recently that GM will not warranty a MAF if used with an Oil style air filter? This was like a month ago


Thorco69, How did they know you were running a Hypertech software program?, Seems like everyone skipped on asking bout that.


Some dealers are really cool , others really suck. If they cant prove it then your all set.


My friend who is a Service Manager shows up to court at least a few times a month for lemon law/buy backs. GM would'nt sent a lawyer if you were taking them to small claims, they'd pay the SM to go,


And another way to get what you want is tell the SM/techs what you know, If they see that you might know a little bit more than they do, they step down a bit. Too bad DmaxAlliTechs arent available at every dealership in the US.


Bill

Thats crap about K&amp;N filtration abilaty. It is a very good filter period. Big stuff only, my butt. I have put countless hours on my Bronco at the Sandunes. I take my motors apart myself. No extra wear from dirt. The baja 500 puts all kinds of dirt particles in the air. From micrscopic to clauds. Same as the sand dunes or a country road for that mattter. K&amp;N works just fine. If you over oil one or damage the gauze then you did not follow the instructions! The oil on the filter traps more dirt than you could ever imagine! I am sorry for the tone, it just makes me a little peeved to hear a warranty being voided by an air cleaner that is sold in the parts dept. It also makes me mad to hear people tell you a K&amp;N will not work just so they can sell you there version. Rant Out!


AMEN! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Im curious about the Hypertech issue as well. How did they know?


If they use the hypertech as their basis, and they do know it is/was on there, they could void your whole warranty and avoid the K&amp;N issue http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I am confident that the K&amp;N issue is bogus, but the chips/programmers are hard to beat...

Thorco69, How did they know you were running a Hypertech software program?, Seems like everyone skipped on asking bout that.





You took the words out of my laptop.


Everyone is upset about the filter thing...but how did they know you ONCE had the Hypertech installed?





Mac, that seems like alot of work to swap out the air box everytime you go in.


I do agree if it is covered in filter oil buy it yourself. But it's not...follow the instructions of the post that Bronco put up. It will be a long hard road.

I initially placed a topic under "loss of power", and I have found a Chevy Dealer, who may have pinpointed the problem but they are not sure. I have a bad Mass flow sensor, and a fuel pump that is putting out too much pressure. Here is the rub, the Chevy Factory Rep stated that since I had a K&amp;N filter installed, they would not warranty the Mass flow sensor, and since I once had performance software installed (Hypertech), that Chevy would not honor their warranty, and they have issued new bulletins to their dealers stating so. Has anyone else had this problem, and if the rep is just side stepping the responsibility, do any of you have something I can show the factory rep. Thanks to all.





What is the current truck mileage ?? I assume that you are almost or are out of the 3yr/36K warranty and if not did the dealer or GM put a RED-FLAG on your VIN# ???


I would not be happy with the dealer......and would not be back for any reason.


A simple answer of , BTW we cannot warranty the MAF sensor due to oil contamination from a aftermarket filter is not out of line, however voiding a warranty in whole is just wrong.


I would try to be diplomatic at first, if not DIG IN and FIGHT !!!


Good Luck and keep us informed.





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Racers aren't interested in engine life? On what planet? Ever run in silt? It's like flour. One silt bed can destroy an engine and yet K&amp;N is still the overwhelming choise of off road racers. Here we go again. K&amp;N's suck and I guess all the top off road teams don't know nuthin bout filtration. Oiled foam does have one clear advantage and that's why you see it used on dirt bikes. It can survive being submerged in water. On the other hand my desert motorcycle racing experience shows me that oiled foam can completely plug and pass silt in as little as 90 miles. K&amp;N's work and oiled foam works. Here in the Southwest K&amp;N is my preference for my daily driver.


Sorry if I rant.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Throw Up.gifEdited by: MOTO HEAD

I think the UNIFOAM makers know who the king is and have no choice but to go after there market share. It's just economics, nothing personal!

Thorco69, How did they know you were running a Hypertech software program?, Seems like everyone skipped on asking bout that.





You took the words out of my laptop.


Everyone is upset about the filter thing...but how did they know you ONCE had the Hypertech installed?





Mac, that seems like alot of work to swap out the air box everytime you go in.


I do agree if it is covered in filter oil buy it yourself. But it's not...follow the instructions of the post that Bronco put up. It will be a long hard road.

Dude I need a day to prepare a trip in .....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


If you ever brake down you'll need to be towed to your house first, right?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Boy, what a hornet's nest I stirred up. Thanks everyone for the replies. I am picking up the truck this morning, but I am having to pay $475.00 for a dianostic charge, and for installing a little black event recording device that when these loss of power events happen I push a button and it is supposed to take a snapshop of what is going wrong. I have had this to three different dealers in San Diego County and they all say the same thing. Same factory rep I assume. To answer a few questions, first there have been no codes set. The reason the dealer knows the hypertech was installed is because I told them. After my truck had been down for more than 1 month trying to find out the problem. I suggessted to the mechanic that if we installed the software, it would happen several times within a few miles with no trailer hooked up. Then it would show up on a tech 11, which would at lease point them in the best direction. The mechanic agree, but the Factory Rep told him no. This has just been an attempt on my part to solve my own problem. I have 44,000 miles on my truck, all freeway miles, with about 10,000 towing a 10,000 lb trailer. I am leaving today for the desert with the the recording device installed, and I will deal with Chevrolet on Monday when I bring the truck back in for trouble shooting. Because I am a desert freak in the winter and can't be without my truck. Last night I bought new 3500 dualie, with the 8.1 and allison trans. I will only put on about 5000 miles a year, and wouldn't have benefited much from the diesel. Again, thanks every one.

... It also makes me mad to hear people tell you a K&amp;N will not work just so they can sell you there version. Rant Out!


No need for you to get mad about this then, I'm not selling, or trying to sell, anything. I was just passing along info I had read a few years ago. The tests were done by engineers, not working for a filter company, who wanted to determine what worked and what didn't, and to what extent. I don't have the link or I would have posted it. I guess this is just second hand info for you then. Too bad, because the results were significant. I have on and off-road trucks, ATVs, snow machines and a motorcycle. None will ever have a K&amp;N. No need for urinary olympics over this. I've seen the report, you won't be able to change my mind. You have not seen it, I won't be able to change your mind.

... It also makes me mad to hear people tell you a K&amp;N will not work just so they can sell you there version. Rant Out!


No need for you to get mad about this then, I'm not selling, or trying to sell, anything. I was just passing along info I had read a few years ago. The tests were done by engineers, not working for a filter company, who wanted to determine what worked and what didn't, and to what extent. I don't have the link or I would have posted it. I guess this is just second hand info for you then. Too bad, because the results were significant. I have on and off-road trucks, ATVs, snow machines and a motorcycle. None will ever have a K&amp;N. No need for urinary olympics over this. I've seen the report, you won't be able to change my mind. You have not seen it, I won't be able to change your mind.





I raced honda XRs for years and I think the K&amp;N is horrible in dusty conditions. I prefer stock or UNI. The K&amp;N will clog - the UNI had a coarse foam as first layer that caught dirt but didn't "layer it" into an impermeable sheet of dust. And no, it wasn't because it "did it's job" - there was a layer of fine dust in the intake air boot too... Like the previous poster - I would never put one on one of my motorcycles.


As far as "what they run in the Baja 1000" - K&amp;N pays to have their stickers on the side of motorcycles and trucks -&gt; what is actually inside may be totally different. Since I had a friend who rode baja and tossed his K &amp; N on the side of the trail after it clogged twice - I'd say it is not the best choice...


In an on-road application - i wouldn't use a replacement K&amp;N that fits in the stock oem location. I wouldn't use the UNI either. Some oil will get pulled through/off the filter and the sensors downstream of them don't deal with it well...


Remember that the warranty is against "manufacturers defects" - How can you "spin" it to make the "stealer" think oil from a K &amp; N air filter fouling a sensor is a manufacturer's defect? Good Luck with that one... Me, I would go after K&amp;N...


jeff

Bingo, a K&amp;N will clog and shut the motor down. A foam filter will not clog and will pass dirt. My experience exactly. Thanks for confirming that.

A few weeks ago I was talking to the owner of an Auto Parts store that I have known and done business with for years. I commented on his K&amp;N display as he had another display as well. His comment was that when he first looked at the K&amp;N filter, he could see large holes in the eliment.


He told me that the K&amp;N rep had warned him that there was NO K&amp;N warranty on any of their filters sold to a P********K diesel.


Thought that was interesting.


I was glad I had chosen Amsoil for my Dmax.

K&amp;N has a million mile guarantee. The independant lab results I saw showed the K&amp;N to be 97 to 99% effective down to 5 microns. The stocker is about 93% effective down to 5 microns. Large holes? Get real. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gifEdited by: MOTO HEAD

Well after that last post I went out to the curb and opened up the old airbox and white gloved the intake tract. Almost 15,000 miles on my K&amp;N (that's 2 or 3 trips to the desert every month pounding over silt and sand) and the intake is spotless.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif Don't believe every rumor you hear on these boards.Edited by: MOTO HEAD

MOTOHEAD,


If feel as though I am swimming in a see of salesman. I could care less who runs what filter, it wont effect me one tiny bit(2MIC). I only became involved with this thread due to the fact that there were 2 reports of warrantys being voided because of K&amp;N filters being used. As you can see by reading the entire letter from K&amp;N there is no basis for a warranty denial. As far as K&amp;N go if you damage the gauze or overoil (all come pre oiled) then it is your own fault! A properly oiled K&amp;N will never make a mass air sensor dirty. Do you realize mass air sensors wearout and get dirty no matter what air filter you run. Lets all try to use a little common sense and not be so brand loyal.

I dont sell anything. I also have a 7.3psd but wanted to see how you guys are doing over here and all i can say is your damn right a k&amp;n will void warranty. It all depends on what dealer you go to, but yes go to the wrong guy and it will be voided. I went to a powerstroke rally in the northeast and i saw a western diesel guy pull a guys k&amp;n off and there was dust lining his hole pipe to the turbo. I wouldnt trust their stuff. Too many dusted psd with K&amp;n. As far as the MM LAW. Good luck, i frequent the psd sights a lot and i dont know anyone that has benefitted from that law. Ford and GM pockets are a lot deeper than ours, getting a lawyer wont help. Especially if you have a dusted engine and a filter that has a bad rep. Good luck guys.

Bronco we're surrounded by parrots.

How long are these guys going with out cleaning the filter? Turbo filters do suck alot dirt...I would say they need to be cleaned every 5,000miles. What is everyone doing with there filters...K&amp;N AFE and ext.

Every 10,000 miles is what I "try" to do. I appologize to all if I've been nasty but this air filter debate irritates me to no end. I've used my brand for 26 years (hundreds of thousands of miles) and never had any leakage or dusting of the intake tract. The fact that someone cleaned their K&amp;N and forgot to oil it doesn't make a case for brand character assasination. Edited by: MOTO HEAD

Don't believe every rumor you hear on these boards.


I certainly won't!!

Oldman,


It is all good! K&amp;N had the patent on there version of an air filter for a long time. When it recently expired a flood of competitors surfaced. AFE and KOOL BlUE( MR.Gasket conglomoration) and others. Untill that point nobody ever had anything bad to say about K&amp;N. It is a dog eat dog world out there. People have all sorts of marketing techniques. Even slander. I think the real point of this entire thread is as follows.


If the dealer can void a warranty over something as simple as a air filter then they will have the abillaty to void warrantys over everything else. Tires, oil filters, shocks, and every thing inbetween. I think when people get there warranty voided there is usually more than meets the eye. A dirty poorly maintained vehicle? Hot rubber dripping off the inner fenders? A bed full of beer cans? A 6:71 blower sticking out of the hood? I hope you get my point?


As long as you have a non defective well maintained filter in your box then it should not matter who's it is! Like it would even sell if it was a piece of crap. The first dirt road you go out on. BOOM!!!


Lets all be friends.. It is us against the bean counters and the abusers!

What I get from all this is that by adding any aftermarket products to the engine or fuel system there is a chance that the warranty will be voided. Granted, there are these supposed "laws" that allow people to do such things if the manufacturer can't prove that the addition caused the failure. Until such a time, though, the owner is stuck with a vehicle that won't run unless he is willing to foot the bill himself. I sure wouldn't want to be without a vehicle until I could get GM to buckle.

All of these vendors state that their products won't void the warranty. Are they willing to cover any repairs if GM does void the warranty?

While I do think voiding a warranty for some addtitions is on the side of nuts, I do see GM's perspective. They spent develpment money on a vehicle and "designed" and "tested" it within a certain set of parameters. When an owner goes around changing all those parameters, who knows what will happen. The loads on the engine and transmission can change and the temperatures can also change. I suspect that most on this forum are careful about making additions. But, what about all the nuts that aren't careful. GM has to have the same set of rules for everyone, don't they? Just my $2 worth.

If mine breaks it's going to have to go home first if you get my drift. On long trips I carry everything I need to swap back all my goodies. Luckily my toy box has a large basement storage and I have one tote full of all my stock stuff less exhaust. I had a heater hose come undone on the 210 fwy and coasted off and parked at a Wallmart next to a Chevy dealer. When I realized it was only a hose that had come off I went into Wallmart and bought a hose clamp and two gallons of dexcool and distilled water. My buddy thought I was nuts for not just pulling into the dealer. It may have cost me a few bucks but I was back on the road in 20 minutes with no hassle.

If mine breaks it's going to have to go home first if you get my drift.


I do the same thing with any vehicle I have that is still under warranty. I actually look forward to the warranty running out so I can quit playing that game!

I would follow the advice in the K&amp;N letter to the T.

I have yet to have a need to take my ’03 Dmax with 21k+ miles in to the dealer yet so I am not sure how its gonna go when I do.

I did have a fight with Chevy dealer with my Corvette. He bluffed at first stating that the K&amp;N filter caused the MAF to be coated with oil and he was correct, I had cleaned and re-oiled it and put too much on it. (It was my first time and lesson learned). His statement was in reality, he should not honor the warranty claim, but since I have been a good customer he would work around it.

His suggestion was to buy a second K&amp;N, oil it as much as I wanted to and let it hang in a plastic grocery bag for a couple days. This would allow the oils to completely coat all the spaces I may have missed and any excess to drain off. Good idea and has worked perfectly since. I did that same with all my vehicles including the Dmax.

I know some guys that carry “Absolute” vodka around to clean their sensors up in….or so they say.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

Either way, I would find another dealership

OK inquiring minds want to know........you desert and racing freaks (your words) ATV's, Motorcycles, trucks, dune buggies etc. Does the guy running in front have the same dust problems as all you guys running behind him? LOL http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif OK, OK just kidding and couldn't resist it! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

Funny, you never see commercial/industrial diesels with foam or gauze...

Tysmith,


Who would be there to clean and re-oil every 2 days?

Interesting reading. I was riding with a friend in his S-10 awhile back and he punched it down to impress me with the sound of his 4.3L sucking air through his K/N filter ,cool ! Never related it at the time but he told about having the MAF sensor replaced twice in less than 10K miles. HMMM!

HMMMM I have 21k on my K&amp;N and my truck has never missed a beat. If you over/under oil you are asking for trouble. Tell you friend to try cleaning his mass air wire with a gentle touch of electrical contact cleaner.

Man, you K&amp;N freaks crack me up! Thinking your million mile air filter is soo terrific! I wish I was as smart as you guys, I just haven't been able to realize what a good deal a K&amp;N is!


Lets see, you pay around $60 for the new filter. You clean it every 10,000 miles. You pay about $10 for a K&amp;N recharge kit. So aside from being a big pain in the azz, your K&amp;N is actually costing you more than a replacement paper filter which can be bought for as little as 16.99


Now lets not forget the FACT that K&amp;N lets by big chunks of dirt! YES, IT DOES!


Ever look at a new/freshly cleaned K&amp;N? It has very noticable holes in the gauze eliment. Just look, you can see them!


They actually don't even begin to filter efficiently until they start getting dirty! The dirt starts to collect and plug the big holes so the filter becomes more efficient at filtering. Ever watch an infomercial for K&amp;N? They tell you right in the infomercial that the filter works BETTER when it starts getting dirty!


Now I realize that there will be people who want to argue the facts with me, but don't try to convince me that the marginal power gain you may get from a K&amp;N is actually a noticable gain!!!


You guys who wast your time and money on a K&amp;N have fallen victim to marketing! There is no HUGE performance gain!


If you absolutly believe that you will be able to notice a performance gain, and you absolutly have to have that extra power, do yourself a huge favor and buy a foam filter like Oldman suggested. They do a MUCH better job of keeping the dirt out!


MOTO HEAD, you need to do your homework! You think a K&amp;N is better than foam!?!?!? Your wrong!


K&amp;N plugs up faster because of it's design, it won't let dirt fall away from the element. The foam doesn't plug as fast beacause it allows the dirt to fall off of the element. Foam, however, does not allow dirt to be pulled through! I don't know where the hell you get that from?


I have a sport ATV 4 wheeler and I will never put K&amp;Ns on it. With the conditions I ride in, I need all the filtration I can get and K&amp;N can't provide it!


As for the warranty thing, well I won't even comment on that. Most of you know how I feel about that.


Stick with the paper element filter which can be bought for $17, don't mess around with the messy K&amp;N or foam! It's not worth the hassle or the damaged MAF sensors for the marginal power gain.


JMO

OMG!!!!! KITTY CAT SAID SOMETHING THAT I AGREE WITH!!!


seriously, I dont like the open design of it. I think the amsoil or the UNI is a better bet

Well well well,


We finally have the techs. involved. Let me ask some simple questions that deserve simple answers. This is not intended to be a flame out.


Is there an aftermarket filter that will not potentially void my warranty?


If I keep my K&amp;N dirty then does it become a good filter?


Finally, will other off the shelf items such as oil filters and gear lube potentially void my warranty?

fatcat, just one point:


You need to do your homework on the cost of the stock Air Filter.


As far as opinion of K&amp;N; to each his own. I have used them for years and years with nothing but good results.


BTW, K&amp;N has a prefilter that goes over the filter itself for really dirty conditions.

I came home from my trip from the desert and after the dealer assuring me either the fuel filter change, or the air filter cleaning would clear up my problem. They did not. I recorded 4 different events, but it really happened about 10 times, but the recorder installed by the dealer only records 4 events. As far as the filter issue, and the Hypertech issue, they both sent a nasty letter to the dealer and the rep, at which time Chevrolet backed down. Literally a hundred GM dealers across the country sell K&amp;N and Hypertech software for upgrades. After supplying this info to the dealer and chevrolet, they apologized and are supposed to refund my money today. Later today or tomorrow, they will read their recorder and let me know what they found. I will e-mail when I hopefully have the answer.

We finally have the techs. involved. Let me ask some simple questions that deserve simple answers. This is not intended to be a flame out.





Bronco, in the defense of DmaxTech he was away on vacation for a month or something like.

No Wake wrote:


Bronco, in the defense of DmaxTech he was away on vacation for a month or something like.


No defense needed. Well well well was not suppose to be a jab just a now we can shed some light on this and also here comes 1fatcat!

K & N advertises a "Million Mile" Filter, I thought it did not have to be cleaned for a million mileshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif.

BTW, my sensors prefer "Grey Goose"


John

fatcat, just one point:


You need to do your homework on the cost of the stock Air Filter.


Do I?


http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&amp;UserAction=performMoreDetail &amp;Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EAIR+FILTER%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EST P%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E415263%7C%7 E3080%7C%7ELAF1520%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E%2416.99%7C%7ECH EVROLET+TRUCK%7C%7ESILVERADO+2500HD+4WD%7C%7E2003% 7C%7ENONE%7C%7E1.52%7C%7EEA%7C%7EV (http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?UseCase=C001&amp;UserAction=performMoreDetail &amp;Parameters=TRUE%7C%7EAIR+FILTER%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EST P%7C%7ENONE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7EFALSE%7C%7E415263%7C%7 E3080%7C%7ELAF1520%7C%7ENONE%7C%7E%2416.99%7C%7ECH EVROLET+TRUCK%7C%7ESILVERADO+2500HD+4WD%7C%7E2003% 7C%7ENONE%7C%7E1.52%7C%7EEA%7C%7EV) &lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;Replacement Paper Element Filter for $16.99</A>











Well well well,


We finally have the techs. involved. Let me ask some simple questions that deserve simple answers. This is not intended to be a flame out.


Is there an aftermarket filter that will not potentially void my warranty?


If I keep my K&amp;N dirty then does it become a good filter?


Finally, will other off the shelf items such as oil filters and gear lube potentially void my warranty?





1. Yes, any paper element air filter. It's the oiled foam and gauze filters that void warranty on the MAF sensor.


2. Yes, to a certain point. You don't want to let it get too dirty.


3. Only if they are not for your application. Example: Wrong oil filter, or regular gear lube in a unit that requires synthetic.





I would like to ask all of you a very serious question...


If your all so concerned about loosing your warranty for using aftermarket "performance" items (K&amp;N/foam filters, computer reprograming devices, propane, ect) then why do you insist on using them?


It's not like the Dmax is lacking power in it's stock form! If your pulling something heavy enough to NEED more power, then your overloading the truck...PERIOD!


The Dmax is a work truck and most are a lugurious one at that! IT IS NOT A RACE TRUCK.....STOP PRETENDING IT IS!


You guys can't leave well enough alone, then when you hose it all up it's GM's fault, not yours. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gifEdited by: 1fatcat

1fatcat,

If GM tweeked up the power a hair there would be a lot less people complainng about the high rev downshift while towing.

You just don't get it do ya? These are people using the truck in totally stock form When they ask about the problem we tell them they need a smidgen more power and it won't downshift.

Can you tell your boss to add a little more power in the stock truck?

You add more power at lower RPM and lower throttle position sensor readings to obtain this, right? Well, guess what? You just hosed up your allison tranny doing so! The overdrive clutches are designed to hold up to a certain amount of power, when that power is too high the trans downshifts to a more useable gear ratio.


What you just did was blinded the computer to the real power output so it can no longer keep the tranny in the safest gear for that amount of power.


Same thing applys to bigger tires.


Why are you worried about high RPM downshifts? Does it seem too high for your personal level of comfort? You think the motor will fly apart? Then let it! As long as it hasn't been dinked around with by the customer, there is no reason at all that GM will tell you it's not covered.


Just leave the damn thing alone and GM will stand behind it! Now I'm not 100% sure of this, but I'm willing to bet that no one here was on the engineering team for the Dmax, so how can you personally judge what is best for your engine when it directly affects/changes the factory designed paramiters of the opperating system?

Sorry buddy.... we've been doing it for some time now (adding power conservatively). Allisons overall are doing pretty good if you pay attention to the boards.

Now lets say you are right... you're saying the GM wants it to rev over 3000 rpm while towing for lengths of time dropping fuel economy drastically? Maybe so but guess what? THE CUSTOMER DOESN'T LIKE IT. DUH... Did GM think they would? Maybe you like it but you would be alone.

At least GM IS doing something about it with the LLY.

Edited by: hoot

BTW, my sensors prefer "Grey Goose"


John


Not for me anymore. Only freedom vodka.

Now lets say you are right... you're saying the GM wants it to rev over 3000 rpm while towing for lengths of time dropping fuel economy drastically?



And just what kind of weight are you pulling in an instance like this? If you got the thing overloaded or even loaded right to the max limit, then just what the hell kind of mileage do you honestly expect to get?


Sounds to me like there are two types of people on this forum...


Type 1 wants a street racer from a diesel.


Type 2 wants a semi-truck in a compact LIGHT DUTY truck configuration!


I don't care if the badge does say HD, that doesn't mean it is a heavy or even a medium duty truck! It is technically still concidered a light duty truck!


I watched a Dmax roll past my house just yesterday pulling a big heavy trailer with a big and even heavier front end loader tractor with a back hoe! Now I don't know the exact capacities of the Dmax, but I am guessing that it was way overloaded. All I could hear as it rolled by at 55 MPH was a turbo charger whistling away as load as a turbo could possible whistle....It was almost ear piercing!


And it's probably guys like that who think they get bad gas mileage so they add bigger tires. Then they burn up their tranny and just can't figure out why it ever happened.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

1fatcat,


From our earlyer conversation,
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Well well well,


We finally have the techs. involved. Let me ask some simple questions that deserve simple answers. This is not intended to be a flame out.


Is there an aftermarket filter that will not potentially void my warranty?


If I keep my K&amp;N dirty then does it become a good filter?


Finally, will other off the shelf items such as oil filters and gear lube potentially void my warranty?


</TD></TR></T></T></T></TABLE></TD></TR></T></T></T></TABLE>





1fatcat wrote:</TD></TR></T></T></T></TABLE>


1. Yes, any paper element air filter. It's the oiled foam and gauze filters that void warranty on the MAF sensor.


2. Yes, to a certain point. You don't want to let it get too dirty.


3. Only if they are not for your application. Example: Wrong oil filter, or regular gear lube in a unit that requires synthetic.





I would like to ask all of you a very serious question...


If your all so concerned about loosing your warranty for using aftermarket "performance" items (K&amp;N/foam filters, computer reprograming devices, propane, ect) then why do you insist on using them?


It's not like the Dmax is lacking power in it's stock form! If your pulling something heavy enough to NEED more power, then your overloading the truck...PERIOD!


The Dmax is a work truck and most are a lugurious one at that! IT IS NOT A RACE TRUCK.....STOP PRETENDING IT IS!


You guys can't leave well enough alone, then when you hose it all up it's GM's fault, not yours. http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


The answers to my questions are exactly what I wanted to know. Basically any oiled filter is a potential warranty no-no. I am not an engineer so I can not prove the claime of both K$N and UNI that both of there filters are more efficient than some paper air filters? 1fatcat I am not sure what elevation you live at but I am at 5000 feet and above. I tow a 2500 lb. enclosed work trailer daily. That is the only reason I bought the truck. For racing I own a 1966 Ford Bronco with a 4 speed and a full roller 302 that has a static compression ratio of 11:1. It goes! There are times when I am towing my little trailer down the highway and I just canot pass if I get boxed in. This is what sent me on my quest for more power. I am most likely going to end up with a BANKS STINGEER Kit on my truck. I felt this was the most trusted reliable dmax forgiving unit availablle. I have sloly been piecing the kit together. The air filter was the first piece. The exaust was the second. I have not bought the module yet. There are some trucks that just run harder than others. There are also elevation differences. The Duramax is the best ruck available however a little user tuning can make it better. It is not like it is a 650,000 dollar Enzo Ferrari. It is not a perfect truck. It needs just a little help here and there. As far your above post about the extra torque created at a lower throttle position hurting the tranny, well alls I can say is my truck is always floored and never sees the lower throttle settings so I don't think this will be a problem for my Dmax! Thanks for your input 1fatcat.Edited by: Bronco

Some of us don't modify our trucks for the heck of it, but rather because the truck has not lived up to its billing doing work it was supposedly designed to do. Stock EGT's of over 1400 degrees on a pull (partial solution - 4" exhaust and an Amsoil filter). Hunting back and forth between OD and 4th (partial solution - added OD Lockout). Inability to hold OD under conditions where it should (maybe some kind of power enhancement - semi's run higher HP while on Cruise Control than when being hand flown). I could go on.


There appears to be too much computer simulation and too little real world testing to find out the bugs. We are the beta testers for the first year or so, and make improvements for our particular situation. There was a picture in Hot Rod Magazine of a parking lot full of single axle trailers (looked all the world like a trailer to be pulled behind a motorcycle). For a particular test, the innards of the trailer were programmed to simulate a drive and a load (say Phoenix to Flagstaff) and hooked to a vehicle and driven aroud the Desert Proving Ground track. No wind, no altitude changes, no down grade that gets the pucker factor going, and it is in those areas that things happen. Climb up - EGT goes up (both climb and altitude related). Go down, EGT falls way off. Hugh heat cycling - what is the effect? Start back up a grade after a downhill run - power is slow to come up (because the MAF sensor won't allow any fuel to be added until the air flow gets up), and the tranny blows from OD to 4th to 3rd with no time spent in 4th. Hard on an engine - you bet. I could go on, but we all know what I am talking about.


The engineers need to spend time with people who use these truck in real world applications, and figure out what was missed (as things inevitibly are) and solicit input as to how they can be made better. I would love to have one spend a day with me - say an 18 hour trip from New Mexico to California - with horses. 20 degrees out when I leave - 102 degrees crossing the deserts. 2 drivers - keep rolling, because the horses need to compete when they get there. These guys/girls need to see what real operating parameters are.





Now, I have my truck where it will do the job I need it to do, under the conditions I face. And it is a great truck. But I think the manufacturers could do a better job, and not leave it to the consumer to iron out the problems.

Now lets say you are right... you're saying the GM wants it to rev over 3000 rpm while towing for lengths of time dropping fuel economy drastically?



And just what kind of weight are you pulling in an instance like this? If you got the thing overloaded or even loaded right to the max limit, then just what the hell kind of mileage do you honestly expect to get?


Sounds to me like there are two types of people on this forum...


Type 1 wants a street racer from a diesel.


Type 2 wants a semi-truck in a compact LIGHT DUTY truck configuration!


I don't care if the badge does say HD, that doesn't mean it is a heavy or even a medium duty truck! It is technically still concidered a light duty truck!


I watched a Dmax roll past my house just yesterday pulling a big heavy trailer with a big and even heavier front end loader tractor with a back hoe! Now I don't know the exact capacities of the Dmax, but I am guessing that it was way overloaded. All I could hear as it rolled by at 55 MPH was a turbo charger whistling away as load as a turbo could possible whistle....It was almost ear piercing!


And it's probably guys like that who think they get bad gas mileage so they add bigger tires. Then they burn up their tranny and just can't figure out why it ever happened.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif





I got a question for you 1fatcat. Do you even own a duramax. DO you even work for GM. You post like a troll. Are you a troll ??? Do you have one happy thought at all. Are you sure your not some angry owner of a electric hybid in California ??? I do't mean to be confrontational but lighten up.


The Duramax and Allison were designed to tow and work. If we wanna play truck that's our business. So go back to the wash bay and make sure the sponge doesn't hit the floor. Maybe the Mod's won't edit this one like last time.


Jesse James http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

Sounds to me like there are two types of people on this forum...


Type 1 wants a street racer from a diesel.


Type 2 wants a semi-truck in a compact LIGHT DUTY truck configuration!





How funny that you could forgot at least one other type.


Type 3 Internet Trolls:

I got a question for you 1fatcat. Do you even own a duramax. DO you even work for GM. You post like a troll. Are you a troll ??? Do you have one happy thought at all. Are you sure your not some angry owner of a electric hybid in California ??? I do't mean to be confrontational but lighten up.


If we wanna play truck that's our business.


No


Yes


No


Yes


Yes





If you want a play truck, you bought the wrong truck!


Go ahead and mod the crap out of it, make it a street racing diesel, I don't care about that! But when you do this and pull all the mods off to go in for warranty work, who is the dirty rotten lying SOB!?!?!?!? Is it GM, or is it you????


Be honest, God is watching you!

Thanks for the Sermon. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Jesse http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

.........


Huge heat cycling - what is the effect? Start back up a grade after a downhill run - power is slow to come up (because the MAF sensor won't allow any fuel to be added until the air flow gets up), and the tranny blows from OD to 4th to 3rd with no time spent in 4th. Hard on an engine - you bet. I could go on, but we all know what I am talking about.......





A thotful response. I recall the 50's when together w/J.C.Whitney, the shadetrees developed, perfected performance components of the future. Detroit still wasn't interested as their position was that they built the cars and our job was to buy them. OK spleen vented.


When climbing a steep grade, I experience the hi rpm downshift streight to 3rd before it immediately bounces up to 4th where it really should have gone in the first place. While I don't get excited about it, I really don't like it. My workaround is to engage the OD lockout which takes it directly into 4th. Still, thats a manual mgmt issue that I'm wondering if there is another way to avoid the badboy 5th to 3rd screamer downshift?


Edited by: ShumDit

1fatcat,


Would you mind telling us what you do at GM? Drivetrain engineer? Tech support? Test driver?


Or will you leave us to think that you're the GM Global Director of Stamp Licking and Envelope Stuffing Operations?


You preached your sermon, now provide some credibility; otherwise, we fart in your general direction.

1fatcat,


God is watching you as well my brother. Salvation is a condition of your heart and God is the only one with the authority and understanding to decide the condition of your heart. 1fatcat you know alot about GM products. You just have to remember you are on a forum full of enthusiast and lemon owners. That is the context of this whole website. Keep it in perspective.

Fat Cat Heat, wow. I bought my truck because my gas burning 2003 Silverado was a shifting fool while pulling 1K lb of trailer, and dogs. What sold me was a trip from South Texas to Central California in 36 hours going to field trial our dogs in California in a 98 Dodge 3/4 tom with a Cummins with 235K miles. The truck had been worked hauling large tractors, etc for over 5 years, and down shifted once on the grade up to Flagstaff. The trailer was so damn poorly balanced it took 2 of us to hook it to the bumper, and total weight was probablky 2.5K lbs. My truck listed for $43K, I got a GM discount because GM bought, and sold my old company, Hughes Aircraft (sold for 5 billion dollars), so I paid about $31K. I expect this truck to pull any damn thing I can hook up, and if HD doesn't mean heavy duty, we all got screwed. GM is a large corporate entity, and I paid for their warrenty as well. I am having to add additional fuel filtration because they installed a filter not up to supporting the technology of the engine. I just added Bilsteins because the damn shocks weren't good enough to suspend my old Ford Ranger. If I have problems sustaining speed while towing I'll Juice the engine. Trust GM, I worked for them, and they treated me good, but they are a for profit corporate entity. I am with Horse Trainer. I made that drive last July in an old Dodge, if my new 30+K Duramax isn't up to the challenge, and is a light duty truck I bought the wrong thing, and I will modify it. If I blow the damn thing up I will pull every bit of my mods off, and I will be the lying SOB, but am I lying or is GM with that HD badge. I didn't buy an SUV, I bought a damn HD truck, I paid the damn price, and I expect it to perform like an HD truck!!!!!!!

***** Cat


Your right, almost .... http://mail.wackywack.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


I wasn't going to get involved ,since it seems your getting the beat down but since you suggested all who sway from stock are grouped the same ...


When I got my tranny and torque converter slipping I boned up and rebuilt it at my cost and made it better ..... I could have bought some time through warranty easily ...


I had my truck in for some warranty work although ....


1) Leaking rear axle seals .... I've done many many painted stripes in my Power up'd Max ....


Who's fault mine or the General ??


Who makes the call ??


Do we really need a show of hands as how many have been replaced ?? I've owned three Duallys two which we're 6.5 with NO enhancements, both leaked ....


2) Fuel block sensor leaking .....


Yup I was pushing it hard and blew nearly a quarter tank of raw diesel over approx. 100 cars and 40 miles ......


Who's fault mine or the General ??


Who makes the call ??


Do we need a show of hands how many went down STOCK ??


Ask the Administrator Nick and check out his PICS and Vids ...


This is all I have to offer for my experience for warranty work ...





Not trying to be argumentative but your coming off as the general is doing no wrong .... Will they every volunteer all the manufactures defects or weak spots ?? Absolutely not ....


I do take offense to your slander lying SOB ... So don't be so guilty by association negative ...


So why is the guy (not me) who mildly ups his driving power guilty as soon as he goes in for warranty work regardless of factory defective parts ??


I agree you pay you play but if I was given something that is proven defective I don't care how it was broken ,sooner then later, I expect warranty repair ...


Do me a favor three times I've complained about my lack of E-brake ... It's documented .... When something goes wrong and someone gets hurt give me some advice on who is to blame, who's gonna pay ??


Will it take 15 years for an injector voucher on a discount on your next purchase like the fuel tank ordeal ??


The General aint so perfect bud ....


Have a nice day ....


Mac Edited by: Mackin

1fatcat,

Big dif between somebody that intentionally destroys a product then takes advantage of the warranty.

A bit different when someone removes a aftermarket product because GM might void the warranty when it had nothing to do with the problem.

We don't feel like dealing with the likes of you.

Anyway... it's no surprise here. There are more where you come from. I understand where you're coming from but it's just a little hard to take the medicine. Shoot there's the dealers that use anything they can find to avoid working on the truck because GM or the dealership doesn't provide the proper training and preperation... even now after three years. I have local dealerships that told me forget it.... that's just on a phone conversation with only mentioning "diesel"

Forget voiding warranty work.... they admit they can't work on it even if it was authorized.Edited by: hoot

Fatcat, I think I would rather take my chances with a K&amp;N than put a cheaparse Autozone paper filter on my dmax. I was refering to dealer price


Edited by: 2MuchFun

Although I am new to this site, but I am the one who really asked the question about the K&amp;N mods and Hypertech. This seems to have gotten rather personal, and not really dealing with the subject matter at hand. Whether some of you agree or disagree with mods/warranty etc, if the mods are so bad, why does over 100 chevrolet dealers sell these mods as upgrades. If you do not believe call Hypertech and k&amp;N yourself to verify. Additionally, it certainly appears that GM would be breaking the law if they denied warranty coverage for certain types of mods. If so, who is wrong. Edited by: thorco69

thorco69,


Thanks for starting this thread. Thanks for having K&amp;N and Hypertech back you up. This helps our cause. Have you read the" Are injectors the only problem or do we have other issuse developing" thread. Grab a sandwich and beer before you start it is rather lengthy! This issue and these players have a past to say the least. These are the kinds of threads I (we?) live for. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

I initially read many of the threads trying to find out some answers to my problems, most seem to want to help, some just want to vent and scold. I have had several problems, none of which are injectors yet. My truck has been down a total of 6 weeks with various problems, some started before any mods. Even though the gas mileage is terrible, and it does not have the power, I bought a 2004 3500, 8.1 with an allison to due my tow duties. As I am missing too many desert trips because of my truck. I do not have a problem with the various issues, just GM's approach in solving the problem. From reading a lot of e-mails, one thing seems to be common, GM is shirking their responsibility. It is probably time for some smart attorney to start a class action suit to get their attention. I would certainly hope GM smartens up and backs up their warranty. This appears to be a loyal bunch, who spend a lot of money on their trucks, multiple trucks, and these all have high profit margins. We all would do alot better working together to solve the problems and put pressure on GM for real problem solving.

You guys make me hehe


I am curious why I hear claims of guys having the warrenty declined on a truck that has water in the fuel. Why didnt the light come on ? Why didnt the "water seperator" catch it? Is it the customers fault that the GM supplied WIF light didnt come on?


I purchased my truck originally because of one thing and only one thing. I wanted a C/C and I liked the color, I didnt give a chit if it had a Diesel in it. At the time, the only way to get a C/C was in a HD. That was Aug 02, now I cant imagine even owning a 'truck' with a gas engine in it. I just returned from a very long road trip, I notice that down in the big land of cows (TX) that everybody and there brother owns a diesel pickup. Most of witch have a huge azz cow bumper on the front. Those suckers have gotta weigh 7-800lbs. Alot of them were towing tandem axle dual wheel trailers with a whole lotta weight on them, not just GM's, but F and D also. Looks like they work them trucks pretty hard down there. If I cant work the piss outa mine, whats the point? When GM built the Grand Prix, did they intend for it to be a race car? Other then on the stock car circuits, I doubt it. Guess what, there are local guys here that have G/P's running 10's. GM may have not intended it to do that, but it does. GM didnt intend HD trucks to run 11's, but they do, they werent built to pull the sled for 300' but they do. Grand Ams werent meant to be turned into 'ricers' but they do.


Hoot has a valid point. The big problem is that probably 80% of the dealers that sell these cant fix them. So, GM puts a product on the market and cant fix it.. Hmmm, who is getting screwed now? How bout the guys that have to keep making return visits to the dealer to get the same issues resolved, and be with out thier truck for weeks or months? Who is getting screwed there? Oh well, this is getting boring pissing back and forth with the vice president of GM. I wonder if TDR has upper mgmt on their site?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Thorco-


I hope you're patient enough to stick with the forum. Just remember that most of us here are simply owners who are in the same boat as you, learning as we go. There are a few notable exceptions, like DmaxAllitech and several others who know the skinny more than others.


And when one of the villagers gets up and rants, they typically get a (usually deserved) beating. That's common to all sites like this one. Half the reason I come here is for entertainment, the other half for technical discussion.


You said, "We all would do alot better working together to solve the problems and put pressure on GM for real problem solving."


I agree with you, but it's idealistic IMHO. To me, GM doesn't care about what I think. If they did, a DuraMax engineer/rep would be on this site on a daily basis to see how his product was doing. Or they would ask me. But their job is to make money by getting trucks out the door. Even if 1000 people got mad and "put pressure' on GM, I don't think it would have much effect.


My suggestion is that you find someone like DmaxAllitech, a good mechanic who knows buckwheat from bullsh*t and start there. I'm not going to speak for him, but he's offered to help folks many times over.


Secondly, it's well known that each dealership and each tech rep is different. I feel bad for you that you're getting the bum rush, but in the end, it's their decision and they hold the cards.


If you go to the F*** and D**** sites, they also have dealers who do the same thing. Check out the DieselStop if you want real horror stories about OEMs and dealers making customers unhappy.


Finally, it has been said here so many times in the past, and it bears repeating, take the toys off when visiting the dealer.

someone else said it on this form..... GM is a catch and release company

For you guys that think that these problems/concerns are unique to GM products, have you driven a Ford lately? I worked way too many years as a Master Ford Technician and have pretty much seen it all. I've seen a DSM void a guys warranty for pulling at 13,000lb trailer when his truck was only rated to pull 10,500lbs....he was on his FORTH E4OD trans in about 12,000 miles.


The manufacturer's are in this game to make $$$ by selling cars. They know that a certain percentage of their revenues go toward warranty claims...and they do what they HAVE TO in order to cover the associated costs.


What it really boils down to is the Service Manager...he can make you or break you. I recently had my truck in for front diff problems and the service writer started giving me crap about having 315's on my truck and that GM wouldn't warranty it. I politely asked to speak to the SM, and cheerfully pointed out that on their front line was a 2004 which was lifted with 315's on it....I asked him if he was not going to honor the warranty on that truck. Most of the time the SM's will treat you right as long as you are not an ass to them. There are a few out there though that will stick it to you know matter how nice you are...just because they can.

Do we need to start warning the uncaught fish? Oh yea we can't. It will hurt our resalehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif