I will be picking up my new 5vr next month. It has a dry weight of 10,400 and a GVW of !4,400. Will I be OK towing it with the truck in my sig? I will add a wife and two kids. The thing I am most concerned about are my tires, should I go down a size?

Is this your first 5vr? Based on the weight alone, I would say you can do it safely. Loaded with the wife and kids and camping gear, you should tip the scales under 22,000 CGVW. Make sure you have your truck licensed over that amount. With a good brake controller (Prodigy) and some prudent driving, you should do fine.

Yes, this is my first 5vr and I already purchased and installed the Prodigy. I would welcome any hints/suggestions as I will be picking up the trailer and driving 1200 miles home without any idea of what I will experience! :D

:grd: 1. If you have not changed the rear end fluid yet - change it.
2. Drain the transmission, change the external filter and refill with a synthetic fluid
3. Install gauges - a pyro will help to tell how hard you are working the engine pulling hills
4. Use a slider hitch - I think you posted having a short box truck. I know some folks that have hit/broke the rear window with the front of the fifth wheel while backing - sharp turns.


I had a 2004 2500HD and added blistien shocks, air bags and went to 265 michelin load range E tires - added a little more capacity. the air bags prevent the rear from sagging and smothens the ride.

2005 Chevy Silverado 3500 LT SRW; Crew Cab Long Box ; Duramax (LLY)/Allison; Luverne stainless steel running boards; Isspro gauges; Super Duty Air Lift air bags; Bed Rug bed liner; Prodigy Controller; Husky 16K Hitch ;
Towing a 2004 Everest 291L 5th wheel

For the 2500HD trucks and 5th Wheel trailer combos, the limiting factor is the pin weight that the 5th Wheel puts into the bed of the truck. If the trailer is completely empty, you will be close to or slightly over the GVWR (9200#) of the truck. Once the trailer is loaded, you will most likely be over the GVWR of the truck and approaching the maximum GAWR (6080# for rear axle). I would suggest weighing this combination as soon as possible to understand were you stand.

With your combination, you have about 2000#'s of payload capacity (truck, hitch, full tank of fuel). Add passengers, and you are down in the 1500 - 1600 # range (before you hit the 9200 gvwr). Check the specs for your trailer and see what the advertised pin weight is. The only thing for sure is the "real" pin weight is more than advertised.

The suggestions made by others above are good ones. I would be concerned about the tires, make sure they can handle the load. The rest of truck should be OK.

Otherwise, enjoy the trailer !!

1. Three words......."Trailer Kingpin weight!"
Fifth wheels handle better with heavier kingpin weight, so manufacturers try to design in 20-25% of the total weight of the trailer to be distributed to the kingpin. With Class 2 trucks (3/4-Ton), this weight can exceed the rear axle's rated weight when loaded near its capacity prior to hitching.

2. RV Salesmen don't always tell the truth (especially when it comes to weights). They may not even know the truth, but will tell you anything to make the sale, so get on the scale. Use certified scales from a truck stop and weight your "toter" before you set out for a long trip, then weigh your wagon when you get it.

3. There are fools everywhere......Get a hitch lock that prevents some malfeasants from pulling your hitch release at fuel/truck/rest stops, while you pay/eat/ring-out your sock! And never put your rig into motion before checking the hitch, connector, and break-away cable, and if it is getting close to nightfall, all your marker, brake and stop lights, no matter how short the stop. Dropping a "fiver" onto your short box is an expensive proposition, even if insured.

4. When stopping, check the temps on the tires and bearing hubs, even if the trailer is brand new. If the tires are heating up, or show strange wear, then there may be faulty installation. It is also a good idea to stop within the first 20-30 miles and put a lug wrench on the trailer tires to ensure that they remain tight. This is also true if a tire change was done for any reason, as trailer manufacturers usually use tapered lugs to center the wheels on the axles....loosing a wheel at hwy. speed may be more excitement than you bargained for.

5. Turn OFF LP tanks when traveling. The refrigerator can keep things cold/frozen for up to 12-hours without power or LP, if the doors are kept closed. However, it is better to toss a few dollars worth of spoilled food, than to travel with an armed bomb!

6. When backing, GOAL (get out and look), if you don't have an experienced assistant to watch for non-expendables in your blind spots. Make frequent visual checks of the roof and undercarriage, as well as awning rails and bumper covers (for stow in the bumper sewer hoses) to make sure that nothing is working its way loose. Under-slung PVC plumbing are generally strapped on with cheap steel straps which loosen easily, rust quickly, or have been installed with too much force (air tools) can crack or break pipes or tanks. Until the trailer has had a proper shakedown, you never know what can fall out, fall off, rip away, or break away at hwy. speed.

7. The trailer may come with a spare tire, but no-one provides you with a jack or tools to change out a tire on the side of the road. Make sure you have a jack (bottle or scissor type) that is rated for at least 1/2 the trailer's Gross Combine Weight, the proper sized lug socket(s), and at least 1/2" drive breaker bar, with possible extenssion (pipe) to loosen the lugs. Otherwise you will need road service, which can be quite costly if you do not purchase a road service plan from some reputable outfit (I cannot recommend AAA for any reason, but that has been from my experience).

Hope these tips will help you enjoy your new RV, and wish you happy trails.

RF.

Radio Flyer,

Thanks for taking the time to educate me. I have most of tools you mentioned except for a decent jack. I only carry the one that came with my truck. Do you think a simple bottle jack would do? I have about 10 1" landing pads that I could stack to get the trailer higher. Also, what is the best way to weigh the trailer? I have several weigh stations that are usually closed but how do you get an accurate reading on the pin? Do you simply weigh the BACK of the truck then drop the trailer and weigh the BACK again? The difference is the pin weight?

Thanks.

I weighed the truck/trailer (3 axles) at once on a CAT scale. Then weighed just the truck. The difference in the truck axle weights (both front and rear) is the weight the king pin is putting on to the 5th wheel hitch.

With everything connected (truck/trailer), the sum of the truck axles should be 9200# or less. The rear axle should be under 6084# and the front axle should be under 4670# (at least for my truck). The reality for my "small" 28ft 5th wheel is that I am over truck's GVWR by around 300#'s. (FYI - My 5th trailer has a GVWR of 10,200#).

You'll be surprised at what 5th Wheels weigh and how quickly our 2500HD trucks become over loaded.

My truck is about 7500 lbs, and I'm towing about 14000 lbs, bringing my total to about 21,500 lbs. I did some research when buying my fifth wheel... Two main concerns: 1) Stopping the combo, 2) GVWR. Good breaks and Allisons grade braking seem to handle issue #1 well enough for me-- and I've been on some mighty long/steep slopes-- I drive conservatively and all goes well. In regard to GVWR.... I did some research on this over on the Open Roads forum....

The REAL issue here is the rear axle and it's ability to handle the pin weight of the fifth wheel. In examining the RAWR (rear axle weight rating) it will be seen that there are 3 links in the chain of strength... the axle, the leaf springs, and the rims/tires. The rear axle (itself) is rated at 11k lbs-- RAWR has NOTHING to do with any limitations on the axle itself. The leaf springs are rated to about 6084lbs, but get yourself a set of 5000lb AIRLIFT bags (air bags) and now your spring rating is effectually about the same as your axle-- 11k lbs (and you'll have smoother ride too!). That leaves the rim/tires. From all I can gather, our rims are rated to 3400 lbs (each). They can no doubt handle more, but that's about what they are rated at. The OEM 245 tires (and ALL 245 tires) are rated to about 3000lbs. If you jump up to LT265-75-E tires, which are rated at 3400lbs, you will gain 400lbs more capacity per tire, 800lbs more rear-end capacity, and 800lbs more for the front-end too. That 800lbs was important to me, because I'm heavy on my rear axle, and I was over GVWR by a significant amount. Technically, I still am over by a significant amount, but practically speaking-- that is no longer the case.

Suggestion: Get yourself some quality 265 E rated tires, and breath a little easier, because that's the weakest link. I got Michelin, LTX M/S's at Sams for about $180/each.

Paul.

Pin weight can only be measured while standing still (economically that is). It is important to remember that there is an awful lot of "teeter-totter" effect going on back there when braking or accelerating. When braking, the pin weight can increase by 8-12%, similarly, when accelerating that weight can be reduced by the same amount, as the weight shift back and forth...... If your at or slightly above the rear axle/tire/rims/universal joints/wheel bearing capacities, then the 8-12% down force (braking) and lift force (accelerating) ..... well, you get the picture.

Shaving thin slices close to the edge of the envelope is a personal decision. Doing so with the lives of family members or close friends on board is irresponsible in my book.

To answer you question about a bottle jack, YES. It is the least expensive way to go, as you can get a 5-ton from Harbor-Freight or JC Whitney for about $24.00 on sale. You do want to use those 1" plates to steady the base of that bottle jack though, and have a good set of chocks to block the wheels before you start to lift.

Another point to be researched is the limitations on high weight rated tires. Most have MAXIMUM SPEED limits on them. Some E-rated tires are not to be used above 75MPH, and G-rated can be as low as 65. There are give and takes in every aspects of this business.

RF

Here is how I weigh... This is using the actual weights from my rig weighed this week.

Pull the front axle onto the scale... Weight on mine was 4040 lbs.

Put the front and back axle of the truck on the scale with the trailer weight on the truck. Weight of mine 10580 lbs...

When you pull your truck on the scale stop the truck so that you can drop your landing gear on the ramp OFF THE SCALE. After weighing the total truck ( above step) drop the landing gear and lift the weight of the trailer off the hitch. You do not need to unhitch if you do it this way... The landing gear should NOT be on the scale.

With both axles of the truck on the scale and the weight of the trailer OFF the hitch weigh it again... My weight 7560 lbs.... This weight is the total weight of your TV without the trailer....

Now lift the landing gear and drive the total rig onto the scale and weigh.. MY weight 19860 lbs...

If you do it this way you do not have to unhitch, takes less time and the truckers will not get mad at you

You now have all the numbers you need to figure the weight of your axles..

From the 4 weights I can tell this...
Total weight of front axle 4,040 lbs
Total weight of rig 19,860 lbs
Total weight of truck 7,560 lbs
Total weight of trailer 12,300 lbs (19,860-7,560)
Total weight of TV with trailer 10,580 lbs
Total pin weight 3,020 lbs (10,580 - 7,560)
Total unloaded rear axle weight 3,520 lbs (7,560 - 4,040)
Total loaded rear axle weight 6,540 lbs (10,580 - 4,040)
Total rear axles of trailer 9,320 lbs (19,860 - 10,580)

See just four weights will tell you almost everything you need to know... The only thing this method will not show is uneven side weights on the trailer. For that you need to weight each tire...

Some places charge more that others. This weekend I was charged 7.50 for the first weight and then 1.00 for each of the others... 10.50 total.. One time flying J charged me 7.50 then 1.00 then 7.50 and 1.00 again... 17.00 total... I was in a hurry and did not make a fuss

Pardon me if the math is a little off.. I did it in my head and it is late

Have fun!
Steve

Just asking here so don't bite my head off but if your trying to do the work of a 1 ton truck why would you buy a 2500? It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to buy under then do an assortment of aftermarket upgrades to get the capacity up to marginal. Wouldn't it be safer as well as easier to just get the correct truck to do the job? It seems when I bought my 3500 it wasn't all that much more than the 2500. Especially when you get up to the prices of new trucks, I mean really whats another thousand dollars when your already over 40 thousand?

costs go up all around, insurance (mine has to be commerical because the gvw is over 10) tolls are more, more $ replace tires etc..etc..

now for me the insurance works out cheaper, because im 19 I would be rated for "normal insurance" but with commerical they dont rate you on your age.

Sure there may be a little more in costs but certainly nothing outrageous especially when comparing the costs of new trucks. You got to add up all the aftermarket stuff like airbags etc to the 3/4 ton truck that the 1 ton won't need. When I traded my 3/4 ton in for my 1 ton, I don't think the insurance went up much at all. My license tag might cost me $20.00 more but even that is questionable. Here the license tag is based on declared GVW. If you declare the same weight its the same price. I think I bumped the weight up when I got my tag thats why it went up. As far as tolls, well down here its based on axles. I am still only running two axles, same price as my 3/4 ton. I do have a dually now so yes tires costs more when I change them out. However I am finding the rear doesn't wear out as fast. When I put tires on I usually change the front two and pick the best 4 to put on the back. Maybe there would be some gas mileage difference, for me I went from a 454 to a diesel so mine actually went better.
I don't mean to hijack anyone's tread or anything I am just thinking about this and was wondering what everyone else thought. I see an awful lot of overloaded trucks out there and there has to be a reason. Especially with the price of new trucks it doesn't make sense to me to overload it.

Just asking here so don't bite my head off but if your trying to do the work of a 1 ton truck why would you buy a 2500? It doesn't seem to make much sense to me to buy under then do an assortment of aftermarket upgrades to get the capacity up to marginal. Wouldn't it be safer as well as easier to just get the correct truck to do the job? It seems when I bought my 3500 it wasn't all that much more than the 2500. Especially when you get up to the prices of new trucks, I mean really whats another thousand dollars when your already over 40 thousand?

To answer the question (my case).

1. In 2003 the 2500HD WAS GM's 3500 srw.
2. I needed the cab space without sacrificing the wheel base.
3. Short wheel base for in-town manuevering (still too long at times!)
4. Needed a narrow vehicle for tight places (dually too wide)

The only real difference between the 2500HD and 3500 DRW is 3 leaf springs and rear capacity from the tires. Both axles are AAM 1150's rated for 10,930 lbs.

BTW, actually the SRW has a higher front capacity (tires) than the DRW. 5k for DRW and 6-6.8k for SRW.

If width and wheelbase limitations do not affect the decision, then the 3500 DRW would be the "smarter" choice. However, that is not always the case.;)