Guys, I am torqued!


Just left for lunch and about a block from work, as I took a corner, the truck started splat, splat, splatting, lost power big time, surged and splat, splat, smoke out the tailpipe, good sized clouds.


I pulled right over and called OnStar, and they couldn't get a code because the truck was off. Cranked it over, and, man, it was scary. Thwat, thwat, thwat, thwat thwat, and smoke, and engine surge. Killed it fast, too fast for them to get a code.


So now I'm waiting for Roadside Assistance, and they're going to tow it to the dealer. I told them to make sure and bring a flatbed. ealer is expecting me.


Here's some info. I had it serviced Friday. They lubed and changed the oil. I checked the oil, and it's clean as a whistle, no diesel smell, and the right level. The coolant level seems normal. Nothing leaking anywhere underneath.


As to fuel, it has a half tank. Seems like a bad lot of fuel would have caused symptoms either right after I filled or when the tank was running low. Half tank.


The truck has 14,400 miles, and I changed the OEM fuel filter 1000 miles ago, so I don't suspect a clogged filter.


Anybody got any suggestions besides a bottle of Scotch?


I am bummed!


Rick


Help me pass the time while I wait for Roadside.Edited by: Campfire_Rick

I've been thinking about it, and the noise sounded almost like an exhaust leak, but the smoke, surge and loss of power leave me guessing.


Heads?


Rick

so your sitting in the truck and loggin in on the net....? aint technology great?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





sorry to hear about the truck. No advice other then surf on till they get there.





cmc

Relax for now. Most often it's something simple.

i sit in my truck and read the forum too http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif...


let us know what the dealer says...

Rick got any power mods? I assume you dont cause you didnt mention removing them waiting for roadside. what year truck? other than the unnecessary hastle, your still under warantee, relax and get that bottle of scotch, and a ride home from work. From what you describe sounds like a valve. I had a mack that lost a valve and it went THWAT, THWAT, THWAT, THWAT, THWAT, THWAT, (it was louder than thwat, thwat, thwat thwat). Also I had a ford backhoe that made that noise till it got warm, stuck valve, and both blew tons of smoke. keep us posted. Hey how do i get wireless Diesel Page?

Hey how do i get wireless Diesel Page? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


I'm going with a sensor ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Hi Guys:


No power mods. It's a 2003 GMC Crew SLT, 14,400 miles, oil changed every 2500 with Delo 400 and Baldwin 1441's, new fuel filter, etc.


No mods of any kind to the engine.


Not sitting in the truck, actually, just logged on real quick from work. Shoulda stayed at the truck. One damn driver showed up and left right away, despite clear instructions to call 5 minutes before he arrived so I could get to the truck a block away.


Bastards!


Waiting for another driver. I just want enough info to steer the mechanics in the right direction. I swear I often know more about my truck than they do, thanks largely to this site. I want to clue them in as much as possible.


Any clues?


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

Well, I don't know if this is a sign of things to come, but it has now been four hours and fifteen minutes since OnStar called a tow truck, and I am still waiting.


Don't ask me to explain ... the myriad of conversations I've had with incompetent boneheads throughout the last four hours is too painful to repeat. All I know is that GM Road Assistance is leaving me quite unsatisfied.


At this point, it looks like the dealership will be closed by the time I get there, which means no loaner, and no Tech II while I'm there.


I hope this is not one of those nightmare affairs.


Somebody console me until I get home to the bottle of Scotch.


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

Problem is Roadside assistance is Triple A .... They get the absolute min for the tow and it goes direct to the dealer for warranty repair ..... No storage no repair but a lousy twenty dollar tow .....

They get there when the other PAYING calls rest, your on the list ...

Now if that doesen't make you feel better ,what will ....

Have you called the dealer perhaps they will leave loaner keys with the receptionist ....

Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

How about calling the dealer and see if they will come pick it up? Whouldn't they be the one doing it if you didn't have onstar?

My friend used to have an AAA towing contract. They (AAA) require the tow be at the customer in 40 mins.

So I dont know why the wait? Maybe you pissed them off when you left!

I once drove a tow truck. Tow compainies are on a list, you call GM, AAA, or who ever then they go the list..last in last out kind of thing. The tow company might of had all the trucks already dispatched. I can gurantee they were not just siting around saying 'I get that call in alittle while'. I never had that luxuary. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


This does not make the wating time right just trying to give some insight.


Sorry to hear about the truck problems....they are never any fun.


Good luck to a speed repair.Edited by: NoWake200

Well guys, I just got in from the dealer. No loaner available, but at least they were still open. The tow guy mentioned more than once that GM was only paying them $60 to tow me. I suspect Mackin's got it right.


As to the truck, I had to crank it over and back it up about 75 feet in order to make room for the flatbed. Tow truck driver immediately said "Stuck injector."http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif Symptoms are a very loud clack clack clack clack clack and a bunch of dark gray smoke out the tailpipe. The mechanics said they'll call me tomorrow, so, I guess we'll see.


You know, excuse me for crying in my soup here, but it is really dejecting to do every PM you know how to do, all aimed at really setting this truck up for the long haul, and then have this sh*t happen this early in the game. I was planning on keeping this truck a LONG time. That's why I ponied up for a diesel, oil analyses, Baldwins, 2500 intervals, Transynd, deep pan, and on and on. Now I'm thinking, what a waste of energy and time, not to speak of money. Right now, I think I want out of this thing and into a different one. How can I expect 200 or 300K milkes when this thing can't even go 20K without busting a gut? I am very, very disappointed!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


How many ways are there to say sheeeee-IT?


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

Don't sell the calf before the cow goes in heat

I guess your are right Mac, I never had any knowledge of the order of calls...it was always "I'm droped"....they were "go to".http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Do you really want me to answer that?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Good thing you have a 100k warranty! Good thing you have fresh oil. Good thing you only ran it for approx. 1 minute. You should still get your 2-300k. Good luck!

dont worry. it will get worked out. from what it souds and the info you gave, i bet a push rod or something mechanical went down. an injector is hard to beleave is possable but to have one gernade like you state is not normal..let us know

That's why I ponied up for a diesel, oil analyses, Baldwins, 2500 intervals, Nicktanes, Unis, Primrose, and on and on. Now I'm thinking, what a waste of energy and time, not to speak of money. Right now, I think I want out of this thing and into a different one. How can I expect 200 or 300K milkes when this thing can't even go 20K without busting a gut? I am very, very disappointed!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ouch.gif


How many ways are there to say sheeeee-IT?


Rick





Rick,


Is the Nictane still on the truck? Let us know if you dealer give you any grief.


Remember it all comes down to luck some times. Perhaps you just got a bad injector I am sure it happens. Edited by: Cruz_Man

There's no way a truck this new should be having injector trouble, especially after all the time/energy/money I've invested in PM and regular maintenance. If after all that, I get a warranty denial, there will be no settlement that will keep me from doing everything in my power to make hell, again, just based on principle.


On the other hand, I haven't heard the diagnosis yet, so I'm jumping the gunhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif, but it's been hard to think about anything else since it happened. And of course, I keep considering worst case scenarios.


14,400 miles, guys. Bought it July 5. Injectors already? That is ridiculous.


On pins and needles here.


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

Rick,





are you running additive regularly?

Man, I ain't happy right now.


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

You know, excuse me for crying in my soup here, but it is really dejecting to do every PM you know how to do, all aimed at really setting this truck up for the long haul, and then have this sh*t happen this early in the game. I was planning on keeping this truck a LONG time. That's why I ponied up for a diesel, oil analyses, Baldwins, 2500 intervals, Nicktanes, Unis, Primrose, and on and on. Now I'm thinking, what a waste of energy and time, not to speak of money.


Very good point. I too, intend to keep my DMAX a long (LONG) time, in fact I just ordered Amsoil's By-Pass Oil Filtration system last night, and I had intended to order a Nicktane fuel filter system very soon.


If GM/Chevy can't understand that there are those of us who do intend to add aftermarket parts, not to increase performance, but to increase longevity, without voiding our warranties for doing so, then they will surely lose customers to the other truck makers.


Sorry to hear about your dilemma; please keep us posted on the outcome.


Good luck,


Chris in NC

rick have you heard anything on your truck yet? let us know what they find and dont worry they will most likle not check you fuel.

Rick,


It could very well be injectors. A have heard a few different stories of trucks with right around 15K going boom due to injectors. It is almost like this is the point an original injector defect shows itself?

Well guys, I called the dealership 4 times today. 9a, 12p, 4p, and then he said call back 5:30, so I did.


At 5:30 he finally had someone out there with, I guess, the Tech II, but he said he wouldn't have any info until tomorrow morning. I asked him what he thought it was and he said:


"It's either an injector or the motor."


Just what I wanted to hear. One of my mechanic friends said a stuck injector shouldn't make that kind of noise. He also said I should have floored it and blown the motor to smithereens.


Anyway, I'd like to say I guess we'll find out tomorrow, but that's what I thought last night. I hope they don't make me wait through the weekend for some answers. I MISS MY TRUCK!


Question: Will a stuck injector make that kind of noise. I swear it sounded like the piston hitting the valve, but I'm no mechanic.


Pins and needles.


Rick

Hello Rick,


I vistited the website you have listed in you signature. Pretty cool. Are you a writer there or just know somebody? I notice an article by Rick Bin?

Bronc:


I own the joint, so I guess you could say I do know somebody. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


And yes, I've penned a few articles, but if you read any hunting magazines you'll recognize John Barsness and Ken Howell. They are regulars on the forum too.


Thanks for letting me get in a plug, Nick. Thank God our webmaster here is a brother hunter.


Rick

Yes now only if i had more time to hunt.. i need to get the dog out in the field before my club membership expires and use up my card!

I feel for you. I found this site because at 14000 mile on my Duramax, I was complaining to the dealer I was having to prime everyother day just to get the truck running and I needed more education on what an injector was. When I pulled into the dealship they tried to start the truck but could not. (good truck Karma breaking down at the dealership- must be because I just washed it.) They ended up replacing 4 injectors. They said fuel was being pushed back into the tank. I hope I make it to the 400,000 marker. Sorry to hear about your baby.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Great to read about everyones stories and their upgrades. I still love the Duramax.


Jeff

Rick...... could this be the problem?

http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1088&KW=Campfire%5FRick

you wrote "I took a new case of Delo 400 (6 1-gallon bottles)*and a Baldwin 1441 to my dealer today (right after I ordered the Transynd from you)*and when I got home and unloaded the box, I found three empty 1-gallon containers.* Holy overfill, Batman.* I called, and they called me right back in and corrected it.* Turns out they hadn't lubed, either, so I made sure they got all 11.* So much for faith in your local stealer!!!

The thing is, I noticed what I thought was an excessively high oil*level recently at*a gas station, but figured the oil hadn't settled yet.* It worried me enough to collect an oil sample today, as I have injector failure on the brain until I get some fuel filtration.

So, my question:* Assuming a 1/2 gallon overfill for less than 20 miles (today only), do I have anything to worry about?

If they overfilled it by the same amount last at the last change, 1800 miles ago,*and I ran it 1800 miles (doing short interval flushes the first three changes), can it have damaged anything?* If so, what?

Geez, less than 6000 miles, and the dealer is focking up my truck!!!!!!!!!* I am so pissed!

Somebody tell me what I'm looking at.

Rick"
__________________

And the plot thickens!

I don't think a 2 qt overfill is a big deal. The DMax oil pan is actually 2 pieces and the lower pan pretty much a "sump." The crank runs above the upper pan and is pressure-lubed through the bearings and splash-lubed by the fallback from all 8 piston cooling spray nozzles (actually little 90 degree pipes at the bottom of the cylinder bores that spray oil upward onto the bottom of the moving pistons.) Essentially the engine is a "dry sump" (except for the sprays) and 2 extra quarts will only be an extra inch or two in the lower pan level and never get close to "flooding" the upper pan.

Bronc:


I own the joint, so I guess you could say I do know somebody. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


And yes, I've penned a few articles, but if you read any hunting magazines you'll recognize John Barsness and Ken Howell. They are regulars on the forum too.


Thanks for letting me get in a plug, Nick. Thank God our webmaster here is a brother hunter.


Rick





Sorry to hear about your rig ... I'm looking at ordering one in the next week or so - most of what I hear is all good, I guess with any large piece of machinery things can go awry...


I'm glad someone mentioned your signature URL - I may be contacting you later for some lightweight/compact camping gear for my other ride: http://jbsmultimedia.net/rides/saddleback121203/santiagopeak.jpgEdited by: inte

Hi Guys:


I finally talked to the dealer this morning. He said all indications are that it's a bad injector.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


He said he wouldn't have the "part" until Monday or Tuesday. I said, "And you won't know until you crack it if there's any other damage?" He agreed.


Guys, I don't get the sense that 8 injectors are even in their thinking, as in, they won't even contemplate it. But the thought of them changing just one has me really bothered. Shouldn't they change them all?? Is it time to make a stink, or should I keep the good karma going? Should I wait until they crack it? Yes.


Suuuuu-uuuuuucks!


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

I don't see any reason for them to replace all eight if only one is bad. That'd be like putting four new tires on your truck if you had a blowout. Just because one is bad is no reason to replace all of 'em.


On the other hand, do you have confidence in them to test all 8 before they replace the one they 'think' is bad?...

I'll probably get everyone fired up by saying this, but I will anyway......so much for the pre-OEM filter helping the injector problem. Of all the talk about clean fuel and ways to prevent injector failures, here's a guy that has done all he can to prevent a situation like this (as have I....I'm waiting for my Nicktane as we speak), and we are still seeing injector failures!!


I'm not saying that a pre-OEM is a waste. I myself still want a second filter. IMHO the more filtration, the better, but as we are seeing here, the additional filtration isn't the answer to the injector problems. This might just be a defect in the injectors themselves!


I know a guy with an '02 with over 50K miles; never used additive, no secondary filter, changes the OEM @ 10K miles, and has not had that motor miss a beat. (one of the reasons I bought mine) Then I come to this site and find a guy like Rick that trys to do everything possible to protect his investment, and ends up with an injector problem at 14K miles.


At this point, my head is spinning trying to make any kind of sense out of this whole injector issuehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif!! So far, I love my Dmax, and hopefully I will continue doing so!! I traded in my '02 Z71 because starting at 10K miles the motor would knock when cold and started blowing blue smoke at start up. (GM told me this was normal!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif) I wanted a truck that would last a LONG time and I didn't think the Z71 would, do I traded up to the Dmax. I guess time will tell if I made the right choice!!


As for now, I'm going to put my Nicktane on, do my usual maintance and hope for the best!! If I'm lucky, I get a couple hundred thousand miles out of her......if not, then I'm giving up on GMhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif......next I'll try Ford! Hopefully it won't come to that!


just my $.02


Good luck Rick! Let us know how you make out!Edited by: Fin-Addict

Fin:


Man, you have just crystallized exactly how I feel.


This wasn't chump change for me, and I thought long and hard about what truck to buy and how to best protect my investment. Right now, I feel like I won the make-me-a-goat lottery. To think, I bought a GMC over a Ford because of the troubles Ford was having with the 6.0. I can't see where I came out ahead on THAT score!


I know how I took care of this truck. Trust me, if it happened to me, it can happen to anybody, no matter what preventative measure are taken. This injector issue goes beyond fuel quality. Period.


NC:


You can bet your ass I think they should replace all 8 injectors. What, if I blow a piston they should only replace just it, or score a cylinder wall, they should just bore that one out and sleeve it, or have a gear go out, they should crack the tranny and just replace the one gear? Come on. We're talking a $10,000 engine with less than 15,000 miles! The repair should NOT leave the engine compromised.


Hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it does, I think you'll be singing a different tune.


Rick


Edited by: Campfire_Rick

Rick,


Sorry to hear about your troubles. Remain calm. Go to the dealer and casually mention you are part of a very large online community. Also let them know we are all awaiting the outcome of your ordeal. I would suggest an engine relacement. I know your chance of getting one is slim to none, but I do not think asking is out of line. Have your oil analysed. You will need to go pull a sample before they dump it. AVLUBE has very affordable test kits. Repairing one injector is not out of the question. If they can pinpoint a problem more power to them. I have replaced only one colaspsed piston before. I was low on cash and it was the way to go. Same exact piston. No biggy, no difference. Good luck!Edited by: Bronco

Bronc:


Yes, I made sure to ask them to save an oil sample. I think I'll try and get a fuel sample as well.


This truck has an oil analyses history already with AV. I think I've sent in 2 or three samples, and I actually have another in a bottle here that I've never sent in.


I know I'm pretty worked up about this. I am not dumb enough to think that I'm being completely as detached emotionally as I'd like. But it's hard.


Thanks.


Rick

I understand! Like I said before if I have any major runaround I will probally end up in jail for driving my truck back onto the showroom floor!!

Rick,


You need to go the dealer and get a sample of the oil that is in your truck currently. This can be compared to your earlyer samples. It will show exactly what type of extra wear was incured from the inector failure. You can also send in a sample after all work is done and you drive for a few thousand mile. Before,during and after. The data will be priceless. It will also help justify a complete engine replacement if future problems should arise.

To think, I bought a GMC over a Ford because of the troubles Ford was having with the 6.0. I can't see where I came out ahead on THAT score!





Dude that is the same thing I did, the 03s were scairing the "you know what" out of me. I had a 01 that ran like a champ until it rolled over a couple of times.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif We had to make up our mind fast....the problem with the Fords were still out there....my friend at the blue oval told me anyone built after Oct 15, 03 was fixed...I had to buy the truck before that.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif With everything I needed to do to the truck and still is doing. Now inject problems being very much a reality I really hope someone steels it and I never see it again.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif This is very sad coming from a guy who cleans out the wheel wells and scrubing the tail tip, everytime I wash her....two times a week.


Good luck!!! And remember cover them with kindness...it will get you much more respect in the long run.

This is beginning to sound like a coyote kill here.

NC:


You can bet your ass I think they should replace all 8 injectors. What, if I blow a piston they should only replace just it, or score a cylinder wall, they should just bore that one out and sleeve it, or have a gear go out, they should crack the tranny and just replace the one gear? Come on. We're talking a $10,000 engine with less than 15,000 miles! The repair should NOT leave the engine compromised.


Hope it doesn't happen to you, but if it does, I think you'll be singing a different tune.


Rick


Camp Fire, I think you may have misinterpreted my post - or I screwed up my comment on your earlier post about the dealer saying that your problem might possibly be "a bad injector" - meaning one bad injector. I meant that if your problem boils down to one bad injector, I don't see how they'd agree to replace all eight.


If it is a bad injector and they agree to replace all eight under warranty, then you done good.


Believe me, I hope it doesn't happen to me. The UPS man delivered my AMSOIL By-Pass Oil Filter system today, and I'm still on the fence about whether to buy a Nicktane fuel filter system. If your problem does turn out to be a clogged injector, then it makes one wonder why we'd go to the trouble of adding all these additional filters that we do to prevent what happened to you.


Good luck, I hope it's something simple - and free.

NC:


Well done and well said. As a webmaster myself, I should know better than to let emotion get the better of me. Obviously, I did.


The thing is that you touched upon my major concern here. That is that even though the truck is under warranty and it shouldn't cost me a penny to get this fixed, I can still lose out significantly on my expected return on my investment in terms of longevity of this vehicle if the dealer performs an econo-repair. In other words, I recognize that it is in GM's (perceived) best interest here to get my truck repaired for as little outlay as possible, while it is in my interest to get any and all parts that have been compromised replaced, so that the engine is returned to its original level of performance and expected longevity. I don't think that's too much to ask, especially since I don't think they'll be too agreebale to my unilaterally deciding to reduce my level of payment for the next 4.5 years to match the reduced value of the truck.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


How long before the others let go? Maybe at 102,000.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I have a problem with a repair that makes risky assumptions about the well-being of MY vehicle, that I bought and paid for, for the benefit of GM's bottom line.


You know, I'm so serious about this that I'm considering pushing as hard as I can to have them replace all eight injectors, get them to do as much as they possibly will, and then pony up and pay for the rest myself. Anybody but an absolute scoundrel oughta get red ears on hearing that a customer had to do that to get a repair job done right.


I just might do it. Might be cheaper in the long run.


Thanks again for allowing your cooler head to prevail. I know I'm worked up about this. Nobody has to tell me that.


I hope I'm wrong. Really.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif


Rick

Even though they say it is a bad injector - will they take it to the next step and determine why the injector went bad? Can't say I have ever had an injector replaced but if it costs them anything to get the "next step" analysis done - I doubt you (we) will ever find out. Cheaper for them just to replace it and push you out the door.


Although contaminated fuel may be THE primary reason for injector failure, I am confident there may be other possibilities as well. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif'


I really hope they do you well, Rick - it feel your frustration.

Just curious - when and where did you fuel prior to "the incident"; How much time/miles elapsed between fueling and the failure.


Maybe you got some water in the fuel and the emulsion damaged the injector; If you do fuel sample and can quantify a "bad fuel" situation and know the station liable...


jeff

Just a thought - you're technically not in Lemon law territory (yet) - but you might be able to use that to your advantage. I had a <st1:City><st1:place>Toyota</st1:place></st1:City> 4-Runner a few years ago that blew the head gasket 10 months after I purchased it. It took the dealer 42 DAYS (!) to repair it. The entire time I was being hassled about demanding a rental car similar to what I purchased - I'm not making payments on a $30+k truck to be driving a sub-compact loaner...


Long story short - less than 12 months old and under 12,000 miles would have made me eligible for a full refund of the purchase price &amp; return the vehicle. I was under 12 months, but over 12,000 miles. I started the Lemon Law process regardless due to the grievous repair process - like any lawsuit or arbitration, there are variables. The dealer didn't like that and didn't want to risk dealing with this nut that was sending legal forms to them, so they paid me 2 full months of car payments, and threw in a bunch of extras (shop manuals, etc...), plus put me in a 4x4 Blazer as a rental until the truck was repaired.


One more quick story - my current vehicle - 4x4 Dakota extra cab (soon to be swapped for a DMax) had a minor issue that required it stay at the dealer for what was supposed to be a day. Later I learned it would be 2-3 days. Relatively minor, but when I asked about a loaner, I was all but laughed at. Called a local news station that does consumer reports on local businesses, and sent them a detailed description of my experience. Apparently the news station thought the dealer dealt with the situation poorly, because I received a call from the dealer the same day. They were rather indignant, "why are you doing this?" - it was a brief conversation, &amp; I left with a free loaner.


It's a unfortunate fact of life that consumers often have to resort to these tactics - I guess you have to weight your situation, with your willingness to lower yourself to the level of the dealer at times... fortunately, my situations simply required a little letter writing.


Here's hoping your situation is resolved quickly and cleanly, but if things don't go as planned, there might be a couple letters to write before the bottle of scotch fogs all the details...Edited by: inte

I think you worried that injecter to death. Just kidding, of course. Hope it works out.

In this cosmic universe you sometimes have to wonder which of your thoughts really do get put into action?

In this cosmic universe you sometimes have to wonder which of your thoughts really do get put into action?

it's quantum mechanics man ... ALL of them

... somewhere at least.

In this cosmic universe you sometimes have to wonder which of your thoughts really do get put into action?

it's quantum mechanics man ... ALL of them

... somewhere at least.

...now THERE'S a thought! Get a ... quantum mechanic ... to check out Rick's truck. Everything that could possibly happen, would - from a catastrophic nuclear incident involving the paint, to the truck turning into a solid gold charriot and heading off toward Vega or someplace...

now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Rick, sorry to hear about your truck. I would not worry too much if they only replace the bad injectors. My view is this. I think some of theese injectors are just defective. Why risk taking out a good injector and putting in a new one that might fail ? I know that's easy to say now my truck is running fine. 12k in four months on the '04. when I picked it up I blew the trans pump seals before I got it home. I was not a happy camper ! But I have had zero problems since except a rear door had to be re aligned. I put 70k on my '02 max. Bone stock and I changed the stock fuel filter every 15k. Never had a single problem with that truck, never ran any DFA, nothing. Based on all the back logs of injectors it sounds like you are going to get lucky and be right back on the road soon. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif BTW, I am enjoying your web site a bunch !

For what it's worth, this was posted on another forum by a guy who says he's a gm tech:


I have ben out of town but the problems you are having with the injectors isn't dirty fuel, it is a bad injector design from bosch, it is a problem that is with the check ball that is in the side of the injector. there is a new design injector that is in the trucks built after sept.03 &amp; it is a unpublished fact at the dealer mgmt. to replace all injectors even if one goes bad. This info is what our service mgr says we should do to fix this problem. And our dealer dosen't have a problem in getting the factory to pay for the repairs. Hope this helps?

How do I figure out what my build date is?

my 04 has build date of october 03, pontiac mi. on sticker on drivers door. yours is probably thier too.

jcummins,


That is some interesting info. Could you tell me where this info. was originally posted? I wouyld like to view it for myself and attempt to verify it's integrity. Thanks in advance.

Found the sticker, says 10/03 in the upper right corner of the sticker, the UAW sticker above it (nice touch) says assembled at Flint MI. YEee- haw, got the new style injectors ..... Right?

Found the sticker, says 10/03 in the upper right corner of the sticker, the UAW sticker above it (nice touch) says assembled at Flint MI. YEee- haw, got the new style injectors ..... Right?





TELL ME MORE SO I CAN LOOK AT MY TRUCK......NEVER HEARD OF THAT.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I suppose all of us with older trucks are going to go run right and buy a LLY. How perfect. This is probally some story concocted by a sales man or a GM sale engineer! I prefer to wait and see if I have any problems. If I do I will get all 8 reoplaced with the supposed new injector. It needs to be proven to me before I get caught in any hype. PERIOD!

Found the sticker, says 10/03 in the upper right corner of the sticker, the UAW sticker above it (nice touch) says assembled at Flint MI. YEee- haw, got the new style injectors ..... Right?





TELL ME MORE SO I CAN LOOK AT MY TRUCK......NEVER HEARD OF THAT.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif








Take a look a couple of posts above mine on this thread, there's a sticker on the driver's door that tells you the build date, after 9/03 (a post one or two higher) you have the new style injectors that have a design defect corrected.


Bronco,


I'm sure nobody would go out and replace current injectors with the new style ones when there isn't any hard data to support reduced risk of failure. I wouldn't even if there was data supporting reduced risk. Think it's nice to know that if a person has problems, replacing all 8 will get a design flaw corrected that may save some problems down the road. Good information to have if a person has an injector problem in warranty with build date before 9/03, to get a dealer to replace all 8. Campfire Rick would be a good candidate since his was surely built before the change!Edited by: srode

i think one of the bonehead guys changing your oil took off your fuel filter thinking ...thats a weird place for the oil filter...got it all greasy and dirty then put it back on when he realized it wasent the oil filter... i wouldent let those guys at the dealership put air in my tires. i hate the idea of them even doing my pdi


ed

Rick, sorry, too, about your problems. I also have an 03 GMC CC/SB and had two injectors go bad at about 2k miles. Luckily, I work for a dealership that has a very good diesel tech. Since the replacement I have not had any problems. It stinks to think we pay this much trouble with a truck that costs this much, but remember, anything thats mechanical and built by humans can fail at anytime without any sort of warning. I'm sure your tech will figure things out and get it fixed. I had all of your anxieties as well...first anger then worry and back to anger again...but all of that didn't make it better. When they discovered the problem and fixed it, then started it up, it worked just like new again. I, too, am contemplating a secondary fuel filter, and I regularly add Stanadyne Perf formula to add (probably in my minds eye) some peace of mind. I am changing the stock filter later today (trucks at 8k and filter was changed 1st time when injectors replaced) Just let em get it fixed and drive on. You have a warranty to protect you thru 100k. I know problems stink and are a big hassle, but try not to let it get you down! Ford has had a lot of problems too, but it sounds like they are getting those worked out too. Hang in there!

To add to what inte was saying about the lemon law. Make sure you ask for signed documentation proving what date you brought your truck in. I had my kind Chevy dealer conviently subtract 5 days even though it had been there 31. Gee, I wonder why? I'm actually waiting for my work invoice from them http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif. Been half a year and I am still pissed off at them.


Good luck Rick. Hope you don't have to resort to anything like this.

I dont know who dreams theese rumors up about new injectors on such and such a date http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif They must get a good laugh out of that kind of stuff . If their was going to a change why wouldn't they just start on the '04 s to begin with ? If they were blowing out inventory why would any one think the change ocured on the first of a given month ? Even if it were true, which I doubt it's not going to make any difference to any one unless their is a service bulliten that says replace all 8. I think we all know that ain't gonna be happenin !

jcummins:


PLEASE give the details on this. PM me if you must. This is info I need to pass on to my dealer Monday morning before they begin the repair job. This would be a lifesaver. Please tell me you're not BSing.


Others, thanks for the well wishes.


dmax_lover:


I was at half a tank. I filled up at one of my regular stops, drove it for 3 days, then went on vacation over the long weekend and the truck sat, then drove to work M-W, and the incident happened Wednesday on my way to lunch with a half tank remaining.


inte:


Thanks for the info. You got the ball rolling for me in that I spent some time resarching Lemon Law, etc., and what I need to do. Thanks for that. I'm trying to keep things positive right now, but if things get to hardball, I'll be a handful.


Maxx:


Thanks. You know, that's the funny thing. You hear all these stories about people basically just running the dang things without any PM, and the trucks go forever. Then there are some that no matter how much PM you put into it, they still give, and early. Gotta be design flaw, thus my desire for a new set.


jcummins:


GIVE UP THE INFO PLEASE!!!!!


mako:


I sure wish there was a good diesel man around here. The guy they regularly assign to my truck has forgotten to lube, actually thought the "Lube" in "lube, oil" meant the just change the oil, and then got pissed when he had to put it back on the lift. I had to show him the zerks. He also overfilled the crankcase by half a gallon once. And when I went to the deep Ally pan and changed the Tranny fluid to Transynd, there was an extra 3/4 gallon of fluid remaining in the 5-gallon bucket, despite them swearing up and down they flushed the system clean (and yes, I checked the level per the instruction sin the manual). Even after filling the transfer case with Transynd, I had more than a gallon left over. The Ally should have taken a full 4 gallons when deep-panned and completely flushed. And now this. Go figure.


bartman:


You are right. I know I'll have that sort of detachment when this is all settled. Right now, I'm torqued up. Can't help it. Thanks for the perspective.


Stizo:


Will do. Hope it doesn't come to that, but I've already boned up, and from here on out, I'm setting that table properly, JIC.


Rick

I understand your frustration but we dont know that the others are any better. We have heard from Eric recently that GM is putting the clamps on replacing 8 injectors. So don't get wound up by some good BS'n scuttle. It will just make life unpleasant. They will fix your ride. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Maxx:


Yes, jcummins info definitely conflicts with what I had heard and read on the Boards. Still, I hope he comes with the details, as I'm willing to investigate it to determine if it's good dope.


As to new-design injectors aimed at fixing design flaws, if they are real, I would be willing to risk it. But I hear what you're saying. Thanks again.


Rick

Eric will be back from vacation monday. I am sure you will be able to get the straight scoop then. If I lived closer I'd swing buy and we could shoot up a few boxes of ammo just for stress relief http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Not a bad idea. I spent the evening yesterday prepping .308 brass. I'm ready to make empties!


Rick

Try shooting smiley faces like Mel Gibson in Lethal Weapon http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Hey Rick,


I'm a friendly face from 24hourcampfire, Steve Dogzapper.


Imagine running into you here. I'm deeply sorry that you're having problems with the diesel. Makes you want to cry; you have a dream, spend oodles of dollars and have it crap out.


Have patience, my friend and stick to your guns.


I'll be watching how this turns out.


Steve

Geez I guess were all a bunch of shootin Diesel nuts ! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Dave...aka Stetson

Hey Steve:


Wait 'til JB finds out you stole his handle over here!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Yes, I told Charlie and AFP, but I'm waiting to hear the diagnosis before I inform the Campfire crowd. JJHACK, Eremicus, and quite a few others will be interested, for sure.


You going to SHOT? I'll be there Friday-Sunday.


And thanks for the kind words. You can bet I'm loading some heavy-for-calibers in case this thing turns into a dogfight.


I've been thinking that an email campaign from two websites might let GMC know just how many people watch to see how people with problems get treated.


Whatcha think?


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

MY BUILD DATE ON DOOR IS: 8/02 (EARLY 03) SO DOES THIS MEAN I AM POSITIVELY GOING TO HAVE INJECTOR PROBLEMS???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Friend Rick,


Johnny wasn't here first and I've killed way more mule deer, so I'm legal with the handle. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Naw, I won't be going to the SHOT. I covered it for the magazine for ten years and on my own for lots of years before that, so I'm going to pass this year. I'm slowing down in my writing and able to spend more time on my own rifle/handload experimentation. I'm sixty now and been retired from my "money job" for twelve years. It's time to smell the roses a bit.


If I can help in the e-mail blitz, tell me who to blast.


You might remember that I bought a 2003 Chevy Z-71 EC/SB with the 5.3 engine when I sold the 2002 Avalanche. The Z-71 has been absolutely flawless, as was the Avalanche. The guy who bought the Avalanche stops by every couple of months, thanking me and showing me what good care he takes of "Avy."


It's nice when trucks frickin' run.


Anyway, Rick, please let me know if I can help you out in any way.


Your friend Steve

I've been thinking that an email campaign from two websites might let GMC know just how many people watch to see how people with problems get treated.


Whatcha think?


Rick





Keep track of site statistics - especially as related to threads like this one (resolving problems, dealer issues, etc...). If things get ugly, cite those statistics, possibly even names (especially the guys that work for GMC or are mechanics) in any letters you send to the dealer or Better Business Bureau (Lemon Law or other arbitration). Weather or not is has weight, the people that you'll be sending the letters to, typically management, aren't lawyers - they have neither the time nor the inclination to get into a legal discussion about the finer points of arbitration. If they do, they'll have to hire a lawyer which will cost them more than fixing your truck, not to mention the time involved.


Creative letter-writing: it solved two ugly situations for me.


Your situation is relatively young &amp; it seems there's a strong chance it will get resolved, but it doesn't hurt to tuck this stuff away should you need it 60,000 miles later. I don't even own my Toyota, but I still have all the files (somewhere) - just for the information in them.


(come to think of it -- several years back, after a couple letters to the BBB &amp; a brief meeting with an arbitrator, I got a $1000 check for a 3-year old computer because of an extended-warranty issue...I don't like getting burned)Edited by: inte

MY BUILD DATE ON DOOR IS: 8/02 (EARLY 03) SO DOES THIS MEAN I AM POSITIVELY GOING TO HAVE INJECTOR PROBLEMS???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

This stuff about build date and defective injectors is complete rumor and probably complete B.S. BTW. ,my build date is 12/02 and I am not worried.

I can see it now - car salesman on lot has potential sale on the line but the buyer is concerned about injector problems -&gt; "Oh see, you are so lucky, the truck you want was built one month after they updated the injectors! So, do you want to drive it home tonight?";

The fuel in the U.S. is substandard - the state of california and the EPA will regulate diesel fuel quality to a greater degree in the next couple of years that will alleviate the problem. OC_Dmax gave me a pointer to a great presentation from bosch to CARB (the equivalent of EPA for Kalifornia) -&gt; 80% of fuel sampled by them in U.S.in summer 2002 did not meet minimum standard for lubricity that is used in europe. And guess what, blended fuel used in northern states during winter months has even lower lubricity.

They also showed wear on injectors with various levels of lubricity -&gt; it is very enlightening.

I don't know how much additive I need to get up to get up to this standard - CARB appears to being mandating an additive package versus stating fuel must pass a physical test. Chevron was pushing back in presentations that OC_Dmax aimed me at; I hope they don't win that battle - I want to know that every tank has enough lubrication in it - I don't trust the fuel companies to monitor themselves in this regard.

Until the fuel standards are in place in the U.S., I will be adding stanadyne lubricity formula year round and using Stanadynes performance formula in winter months to ensure my injectors have enough lubrication. I have a GM bulletin in hand that says that adding a lubricity additive will increase life of fuel system components - and that stanadyne is a good supplier. If problems arise I am totally covered (from a warranty standpoint).

jeff


. Edited by: dmax lover

Interesting take on the CARB. I know CA was the first to mandate lo sulfur. Our injector pumps started failing and a class action arose out of it. The great state of CA had to foot the bill for repair costs of every failure. My diesel rabbit was one of them. Looks like they don't want a repeat. Oh well, I don't mind. Bout time someone started to lean on the fuel industries. Newer technologies require cleaner fuel. Hook up!! its the 21st century ~ a whole new world

Rick, I can give you volumes on bad fuel, bad injectors, crooked dealers and the corporate ostritch effect. What it boils down to, is your dealer and how informed you are on the subject matter.


I had 3 injectors replaced, a waste gate solenoid and several CPU reprograms before I had to fix the truck, "myself". All courtesy of Frod Mo Co. The single best friend I had was multiple pages from a great web site documenting the problem.


Approach the service manager with confidence and trust them to do the repairs right. Speak with the tech that worked on your truck and re-verify the problem and repair, out of sight of the manager. If they blink or studder, then look closer. Ask for all of the old parts or at least to see them.


One bad injector is not the end of the world, but if you get several new injectors combined with several old "worn in" injectors it can create problems.


I'm sure you're truck is going to be fine, I've never picked up or owned anything with the names of Bosch or Isuzu that wasn't first rate.


Remember, these web sites are great places to dicuss our problems, but they also tend to make one a little paranoid.


Just my 2 cents worth. Doug

MY BUILD DATE ON DOOR IS: 8/02 (EARLY 03) SO DOES THIS MEAN I AM POSITIVELY GOING TO HAVE INJECTOR PROBLEMS???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gifhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif





My truck was built in early 03. Unfortunately, by visiting forums such as this, we tend to see the bad side of things. People just don't post all the time stating how good their trucks run. We see a good many trouble posts from a small sampling of truck owners. If this were truly a problem on every GM truck built prior to this date, then GM would have to issue a recall. Granted, there is obviously a problem with some injectors - I won't argue that. These injectors are cycling at a very high rate and high pressures. Some units are just subject to failture. However, I don't think that just becuase a truck was built before a certain date that it is guaranteed to have problems. I'm at 14.4K miles, so this post particularly troubles me. But, I see no point in losing sleep over it. I'm just glad they have a 100k mile warranty.

I read on erics web site earlier today that all injectors made after 12/01 are the same.

For all - the info I posted came from the gmc-diesel.com forum. Under Duramax Diesels, the thread is label 'bad injectors let's do something' and posted by a guy called vfrflier.


How legit it is I don't know. Hope is helps.

Also I posted to that thread asking him if there was anything in writing, he replied back no. Rick keep us posted on what happens.

The LLY has new injectors right? I figured they were stuck in the early '04s as well from the post about 9/03 manufacture dates. Don't know if the new LLY injectors will fit the LBY head though, maybe a bad assumption on my part.

I was told this last week by the local chevy dealer when i went to drop off a filter kit for one of their customers: If a customer purchases a set of injectors (after warranty is up) then the injectors are warrantied for the LIFE of the vehicle. Yes, if they fail again GM will replace them at their cost for parts, and the dealer is supposed to pick up the labor. They told me GM did this due to the injector failures. I asked if this was valid in other states and they had no idea. They mentioned it as the truck in question had already had all 8 replaced at the owners expense and had come back again (owner hauls with several of them approx 10-15k miles per month.


I thought it very strange that i haven't heard of this before. i don't know why they would deceive me. Perhaps it has to do with the GM/CA lawsuit a while back. but we were only talking Dmax's the whole hour i was there... perhaps some of our fellow techs can find out if this is really true indeed?

UPDATE:


Called this morning and they still haven't received the part, nor cracked the engine. So the news is no news.


I am being patient, but did remind them that I wanted a fuel and and oil sample saved.


The wait continues.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


Rick

Rick, I am not trying to be difficult but if you want to guarentee fuel/oil samples you will have to retrieve them yourself. If I really wanted those samples I would not trust GM.

UPDATE:


Called this morning and they still haven't received the part, nor cracked the engine. So the news is no news.


I am being patient, but did remind them that I wanted a fuel and and oil sample saved.


The wait continues.http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif


Rick





Document the communication(s) with GM - the initial date the problem occured, what you were told, and you subsequent calls to them - like what you just mentioned, "called GM 1/27/04, part not yet arrived, no work begun. Requested fuel/oil sample.".


(Then perhaps follow that up with, "visited GM 1/30/04, found no fuel/oil sample had yet been taken...")


In the situation with my Toyota, I simply presented all those dates &amp; coversations to the arbitration board (actually to Toyota first) once the repair process went over 30 days.


Hopefully you never need to use it, but it can't hurt to make some simple documention of what's going on.Edited by: inte

Bronc:


I know, but what can I do? The truck is at the dealer's. The oil sample will HAVE to come from them, as the chances of me being there when they crack the engine are slim and none. Also, I don't see how I can get a warm oil sample. But the oil had just been changed a few days before she blew, so I guess all I'm really looking for is fuel content. The wear metals should be negligible.


The fuel sample I CAN do myself, since there should still be a half-tank left when I get the truck back. It wouldn't be in their interests to top the tank off and dilute any contaminants, and geez, if I thought they would stoop to deliberately contaminating the fuel ... nah, they wouldn't do that.


I'm going to have to trust them to be honest, and then I can doublecheck the fuel sample on my own.


Unless you have another suggestion, to which my ears are wide open.


Rick

inte:


Thanks for the advice. I took it.


Rick

If it was me I would go to the dealer and pull the oil plug and catch about half a gallon. Shake the hell out of it and send in the required quanity to the testing company. It obviously would be better to start the truck and let it run for 30 seconds first. In your situation that would be a questionable task?


ON EDIT: Top off oil level after removing old oil. Reinstalling an oil plug while oil is still pouring out is a dirty job but it can be done. Edited by: Bronco

Update January 28.


Called the dealer at 11:55 a.m., and got the same news. The "part" hasn't arrived as of today's mail, and they won't crack the engine until they get it.


I don't see getting back my truck before next week, so I'm bearing down for another weekend sans Duramax, which means I miss a pheasant hunt.


Damn!


Rick

Do they make rental trucks? I need to tow a trailer daily or I don't make any money. Having my truck down that many days for a part would drive me crazy. Havn't they heard of FedEx overnight deleviery?

Back to the nasty letters ...


Notify them you'd like to be reimbursed the pro-rated amount of the car payment due to parts delays. Assuming a $500/month payment: $500/30 days = $16.67/day you're paying to have it sit at the dealer. Then work in Bronco's suggestion and "help" them get out of the situation by gently suggesting FedEX Overnight for the small, relatively inexpensive part they could ship...


In CA, this doesn't mean much unless it remains at the dealer over 30 days - like in my case. The law may vary in your state. In my arbitration, I pro-rated the 42 days it sat at the dealer - they didn't bother calculating - just gave me a check for two full months of car payments.


Who knows, maybe they'll cover your car payment.


Word of warning - this sort of thing probably won't endear you to the service manager. For whatever reason the universe seems to be geared such that only the squeaky wheel gets greased...

My dealership will rent you a car from Enterprise if they have your truck for more than a day. If you throw a fit they will rent you a truck but they usually don't like doing that because it costs them extra money!!......Same reason they don't FedEX the parts...$$$$$$!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


If my truck is ever in the shop for warranty work, I sure as hell am going to make them get me another full size pick up as a loaner whether I need it or not!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif I didn't pay $40K to drive around in some compact car when my truck is in for service!

You missed a Pheasant Hunt!!!???... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif Now I know why you're PO'd... that's almost a federal offense!!!


Haven't been in years. Used to travel to western Kansas and Nebraska when I was a kid growing up in Colorado. No birds out here in the Carolinas...


Those were some great days.... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Max:


Better sit down.


This was right before Christmas. We arrived Friday mid afternoon and had these by nightfall. Notice I'm still perky.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/images/rick_and_20_pheasants.jpg





This was the next day, all new birds, early afternoon, and you can see I'm in need of a stiff Scotch. Jack is a 3-year-old Springer, basically bred for pheasant hunting, and you can see he is done IN.


http://www.24hourcampfire.com/images/rick_and_40_pheasants.jpg





Season closes at the end of February, and I was hoping to get at least two trips in. I still may be able to, but it'll be a squeeze.


Whatcha think? Them's some birds, eh?


Rick

Rick,


That is one nice bag of birds. Wish they had them down here in Az.


Just got into ducks. Yes duck hunting in Arizona. What fun.


cmc

Hey, that looks a little over the limit! Are those all yours?

Bronco:


That, my friend, is Meh-hee-co. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

Update January 28.


The "part" hasn't arrived as of today's mail, and they won't crack the engine until they get it.





Did I miss something here? What part did they find/confirm bad?? I looked back through this thread but never did hear the culprit. Edited by: VincentH

I see. Dove hunts from down there look the same way. Maybe I will make it there to hunt some day. Already did the fishin thing in Cabo. Caught a 155LB Pacific Blue Marlin. It was sweet.

Were just killin time here! Waitin for the General!

Vincent:


My question exactly. I have never used a Tech II, so I don't know. If it can diagnose that accurately, then I AM impressed.


My suspicion is that there will be some delay/unforeseen circumstance once they crack it. In the meantime, I'm just not going to rush them.


Rick

Bronc:


Oh man you should see the dove shooting down there! And I love eating doves. I eat pretty much nothing but when we go down there.


And in October, within sight of the US Border, we chased a covey of between 350-500 Gambel's quail for the better part of an afternoon. They were EVERYWHERE.


We took a few.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Rick

The TechII can help to accurately diagnose a bad injector via perimeters such as the injector balancing rates. When things are out of specs it can pick up on that and point the guy working on it in the right direction...

Ox

Rick, GM pays for the rental car on all warranty work that takes more than one day. Mine has been in many times, every time they have kept it overnight I've had an Enterprise Rental. Three of five times I had a Silverado and was told I can't tow with it, so I don't tell them that I towed wih it.

Anthony

Rick,


3-5 Quail scare the tinkle out of me. I can't imagine what 3-500 would scare out of me.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Dude, what do you do with all those pheasants?

Let me guess...fried pheasant, pheasant gumbo, baked pheasant , pheasant cocktail, pheasant soup, pheasant with pasta....does your family know all there is about the pheasant business?

Blue:


Can they use the Tech II to actually pinpoint the problem well enough to order parts, etc., before they even crack it? Like I said, if so, then I am impressed.


Anthony:


All they'll give me is a mid-sized car (Enterprise). Ever been hunting in a Caprice? I just might try it.


No doubt, we eat a lot of birds while we're there, and we bring over all the US Authorities will allow, and the rest goes to our "secretaries," which are the local kids who tag along and help us flush/find/clean birds. We let them have all the sodas they can drink, pay them $10/day, and send them home with an equal share of game.


Ever tried pheasant jerky?


Bronc:


Man, when that many birds get up, even when you know they'r coming because you see them, it makes your blood pressure soar. First rule is, pick one, grasshopper, pick one.

Yes the Tech II can pinpoint some, but not all problems. I'm sure it along with tech manuals, in the hands of the right mechanic could easly pinpoint a failed injector. now if you could jut get your dealer to pinpoint the location of a replacement you'll be good to go.

Good to hear all those birds get eaten...pheasant jerky? I'll try just about anything once...

OxEdited by: BlueOx03

Bronco:


That, my friend, is Meh-hee-co. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Rick





'


not to derail the phesant theme - but have you taken your Dmax down to Mexico?


One of the (many) reasons I'm getting a diesel is my wife is from Baja &amp; I do some long trips down there several time a year. I've heard the quality of the diesel fuel is actually better in Mexico than in the US (the opposite is true for regular gas).

The diesel is of better quality then the Gas in Mexico ?? Prolly better then the water too ... Guess being back asswards is the trend across the border ....





GM gives out rentals with overnite repairs only in the 3 year 36000 mile warranty period which Rick is in but just wanted it clear for the rest ...... No brownie points for GM ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Rick, You need a new hunting partner ???? I'll drive http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

We used to have lot's of ring necked pheasants around here in SE Pa. back in the sixties. Somebody said the DDT spraying killed them off by not allowing them to reproduce. Somebody else said they were over hunted and the foxes took care of the rest. Whatever happened, they're all gone for years now.

The diesel is of better quality then the Gas in Mexico ?? Prolly better then the water too ... Guess being back asswards is the trend across the border ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





The information I read indicated that the quality of diesel is better in most other countries in the world - the US apparently has some of the worst diesel in the world - opposite is true for regular gas. Apparently has something to do with most other countries using more/having a greater need for diesel fuel (as a ratio to regular gas) than the US. There's also a big push for biodiesel in Europe - they just pay more attention - hopefully that attitude spreads accross the Atlantic.


I'll try &amp; find the source - this is all just stuff I read in various articles, I've no idea to what degree it's true...

That looks like a great hunt Rick!! My buddy and I usually raise a bunch of birds every year and release them at our place upstate NY. Unfortunately, this year we had too much going on (familys, kids, etc.)so we didn't do it, therefore we didn't do any pheasant hunting! Had a good deer season though (7 bucks between 3 of us opening week), and an o.k. duck season. Everything froze up early this year so the duck season got cut short!


http://dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/3Z9_7.jpg
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/911_freeze.jpg

What a site! We've gone from failed injectors (?) to pictures of dead animals. Keep em' comin guys! Anyone got the e-mail address for PETA? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

How's This? That's one morning's (4 hour) take of Argentine doves - I'm the ugly sucker on the left.


file:///F:/doves2.jpgEdited by: Idle_Chatter

I want to go hunting with Fin-Addict. You'll have to recommend a place some of us boys from Connecticut can visit in upstate NY

Update: January 30.


I called about 11:30, and they finally are working on my truck. The service manager said it "looked like it was just one injector" but also stated they had just started working on the "top of the motor." He said they hadn't found any other damage yet. He said it might be ready this afternoon, and to call him this evening.


After hanging up. I had a thought and I called right back and reminded him to please not forget to get me an oil sample and a fuel sample. He said, "No problem."


Crossing my fingers here.


I guess I'll go vote on the injector poll now.


RickEdited by: Campfire_Rick

What a site! We've gone from failed injectors (?) to pictures of dead animals. Keep em' comin guys! Anyone got the e-mail address for PETA? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


www.PeoplefortheEatingofTastyAnimals.com (http://www.PeoplefortheEatingofTastyAnimals.com) http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

UPDATE: February 2


Geez, guys, the nightmare continues. What have I gotten myself into?


I called at 7:45 a.m., and the service manager says when he left on Friday the mechanic was still working on it, but that he wasn't in yet, so he had no info. I gave him my work number and asked him to call when he had info.


At about noon, I check my messages, and there's one from the dealership from about 11:10 a.m. I call, and this is our conversation:


"Hey, uh, what type of oil do you use in that thing?"


"Well, I use Delo 400?"


"Where do you get it?"


"Well, I get it at Costco, but listen, you can put in the factory stuff, and I'll drop it at 1500 and get that Delo back in."


"So I can use Pennzoil?"


"I guess, as long as it's diesel rated, 15W-40, you know."


"OK."


"So what's it looking like?"


"Well, we need to get the oil in it and then run it, but I think we're OK."


"OK, well call me when you know something."


About 15 seconds after I got off the phone it hit me what the hell I had missed, so I called right back.


"Service."


"Hi, this is Rick. Hey listen, if you don't have the right oil or aren't sure what it is, don't put just anything in there. I can be outta here at 3:30, and I'll bring you the right stuff, if you need it."


To my utter amazement, his reply was


"Bring it."


OK, I'll be there later this afternoon."


Geez, guys! I am stunned. If I'd know these guys were THIS unaware of Duramax engines, I would have never serviced it there. They don't even know what oil goes in there! Isn't that in a MANUAL somewhere!


Of course, I shouldn't be surprised, these are the same guys who overfilled it by half a gallon, who flushed my tranny, but somehow had an extra gallon of Transynd left over, to whom I had to point out that "Lube" meant something besides oil, and then go and show them the zerks.


At this point, it's too late. They've cracked my engine and done "the job." God help me that they didn't do more harm than good.


Cri-mi-NEEE! Is conscientious service too much to ask.


On a separate note, what is it with GM sending parts by ground when customers are waiting. Is it too much to ask that they consider the customer's inconvenience and expense of being without their vehicle. This job took an extra week because they didn't have the sense/scruples to Fedex the dang thing. I took it in Wednesday. They could have Tech II'ed it and ordered the part Thursday, received it Friday, and finished the job by Friday afternoon or Monday. Instead, it's the following Monday, and they're still figuring out the right oil.


Un-friggin-believable!


Rick

DANG!! I feel your pain! Sorry for all the hassel looks like you will need to find a new dealer.


Good luck with the fix! I hope for your sake that this is the last one.





Mike

Rick,


Check out my post below about MY recent experience with a local dealership! I had a problem with my check engine light. My experience is towards the bottom of the post.


I have a cousin who is a service consultant at a GMC dealership and every time I ask him a question about my truck or about problems I hear, he looks at me like I have 3 heads!!


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4768&amp;PN=1

I bet you don't even get one of those GM surveys to complete either. If you do, you can at least get some satisfaction filling that one out.

I haven't been keeping up with this thread in great deatail. Did you ever speak with the "regional" service person? After those hassles, I think it would probably be good to at least let that person know what's going on. I had a major problem in the past with another vehicle and the regional rep for that company was able to make miraculous things happen. It all depends on who you talk to, though.

Best of luck to you.

On the lighter side, did you happen to hear "CarTalk" this weekend on NPR? One of the brothers had a connecting rod break, on a Dodge I think. He said he just kept driving until the whole engine blew as he didn't want a fixed one. You might want to keep that in mind if you start having any after effects.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Rick, Whatever you do, let GM Customer Service know what's happened. You absolutely must get it documented in case your truck goes T.U. and there are future warranty 'issues'.


Call 'em, send 'em an email, send 'em a registered letter - but don't let it ride.


That's just scary... and I don't like what I'm reading.


Chris in NC

Yeah after the stealer sat on my truck for a week to fix the tranny you can bet your arse I did not get a customer survey. Geee I wonder why. Rick I hope you are going to give them the oil bill ! geeeez, talk about GM confidence, what a joke http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Scary!


Typical, but scary.


I've got a warranty thing going on with a motorcycle I ride ... similar deal - many service people don't know how to read, much less communicate anymore - and not merely in an ESL sense... I finally got the dealer to send me the necessary parts so I can do the job myself.


Regarding your situation - if you've got the inclination (were I in your shoes, I probably would), check out your local TV news stations. There was a guy down here in southern CA - last name was Boguslawski (not sure of the spelling). He was a consumer advocate guy for CBS news on channel 2. Consumers would get burned, send a letter documenting their experience, his office would then in turn send a letter to the company involved to get clarification, if the ensuing answer wasn't acceptable, or just ... wasn't at all - a TV crew would show up and ask what's going on.


Pretty cool stuff. I had a dealer burn me on a warranty issue - after three days of pretty insulting responses to the effect of "sorry, there's nothing we can do", I called CBS &amp; got a call back from the dealer the same day. Apparently CBS had sent a fax to the dealer recounting the situation. The service manager's response was, "Why are you doing this?". Needless to say, there was something they could do - my truck was ready the next day.


No charge, I just fired off a thank you letter to CBS.


Just one other option that's out there...

HOLY SH!Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif

the reason it takes so long to get parts on d/max is unless the dealer has stock items it it ship direct to the dealer from the manufacture. bosch... i have yet to see an injector over night and yet to see it take less than a week..good luck...

Hey just to throw in from what Iam learning from my now going on the 5th week in the shop (HEADS)


According to GM customer assistance on Duramax trucks GM will pay for a rental car even after the 3/36 is gone. As long as your under the 100k on the engine. According to customer assistance this started in 2003 around November if I remember correctly.


Hope this will help someone.

My truck died the day I picked it up. GM treated me really well and gave me a nice dirty beat up sub cpmpact car to use. What should I expect for 50k http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Rick, that just is not right.I hope they will resolve it for you.You need a new dealer from here on in.Anyone in Ricks proximity with a better diesel service dept. ?

UPDATE to February 2:


Keeping a journal now boys:



<st1:date Month="2" Day="1" Year="2004">February 2, 2004</st1:date>

I arrived at the dealership with 3 gallons of Delo 400 oil and a new <st1:place>Baldwin</st1:place> 1441 filter, as requested by the service manager, at about <st1:time Hour="16" Minute="45">4:45 p.m.</st1:time> I had hoped/suspected that they had figured out what the right oil was, filled the crankcase, and continued working on the truck, but they had put the truck on hold while they waited for the correct oil from me. I was disappointed, as I had half hoped to pick up the truck.

I spoke to the service manager. I asked him to please make sure to have the mechanic put in only 2.5 gallons and give me the remainder. He said OK. I also asked if they had saved oil and fuel samples, as I requested, and he said they had.

I asked if I could enter the mechanic’s bay and talk to the mechanic who worked on my truck, and the service manager said OK.

When I got to my truck, there was a mechanic working on a SUV in the next bay, and when I asked, he said that he was the mechanic who fixed my truck. We spoke in Spanish.

1] He said he never works on diesels, that there was nobody left at the dealership that did, but that it was assigned to him, so he did it. He was very polite and helpful.

2] He said it was one injector. I asked about the loud noise, stating that it sounded to me like the piston was hitting the valve, and he said that he thought the same thing when he

OUCH!!


At least you knew spanish to talk to the Mechanic! I would have been lost.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


Good luck on the test and with the rest of the repair. Hopefully it will be ok. Maybe when you get it back you should take a trip up to see Eric or GMsid..





Mike

Sounds to me like the mechanic is diligent, and the service manager is an a**hole. Once you get your truck back, check it out completely, and find another dealer. Thank the mechanic, and maybe you could work out some side deals with him. He sounds great. I think the first requirement of a service manager is to be an a**hole.





Bill

The service manager is a Jack a$% ! He should have told you they were not qualified to do the diesel work and made arrangements with another local dealer with a DIESEL mechanic to do your truck. If it were mine I would change the oil after a hundred miles or so when I got it back . No si habla espangol http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Rick, Without resorting to name-calling, you have serious mechanical issues that require resolution. At this point, I'd let 'em do what they gotta do to get the truck back, and then I'd drive it just like I drove it before it went T.U.


In the meantime, I'd document every minute issue (your journal is spot on), have a copy notarized and send it via registered mail to GM Customer Service and your Brand Manager (GMC or Chevy). That way they can't say they didn't know about your problems.


I'd also call every GM dealer in the area until I found one with a GM-certified diesel mechanic to take it to when/if something esle goes wrong.


From what I read above, it sounds like you could be a candidate for an engine replacement. If it ends up going that way, don't let the current dealer do the swap.


We're pulling for you; and unfortunately we're getting educated at your expense.


Keep your chin up.


Chris in NC

Chris, I am guessing you have never dealt with Gm on a serious warranty issue before. I had a caddillac STS that ate a quart of oil ever 1500 miles, quit running at every stop sign and had numerous other problems. You are wasting your time saving a journal if you think you might get any place by calling 1-800-who-cares. For those who have not been through the process they simply refer you back to the dealer that did the service ! Guess what good that does. If you REALLY want to get the dealer cheesed off call the 1-800 # http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif It will help if you need an attorney but that's it. Not sure where you are getting the engine replacement. Maybe we should have a poll to see how many engines with one bad injector have been replaced http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Rick,


Personally, I'd never be able to trust it. If the truck were mine, it would certainly fail again when I most needed it most. In our case, that would be in twelve inches of snow, at -20° near Jordan, Montana and not a diesel mechanic within 200 miles.


If it were mine, I'd get it running well, detail the heck out of it and sell the rig. Life is too short to worry about a truck's reliability.


Then, I'd make a rational decision about a replacement truck. Given your requirements, a 2500HD with the great 8.1 liter engine looks good. The 8.1 burns lots of gas, but it is very reliable and the rig is several thousand dollars less expensive. You can buy a lot of gas for the $$$ difference in the rigs.


The 8.1 doesn't need redundant fuel filters and the diesel-dicking that apparently cames with keeping a Duramax alive. No, it isn't cool, but dammit the 8.1 liter is the biggest, baddest, most reliable engine around for a heavy-duty rig.


Having said that, you have to do what is right for YOU.


The mechanic sounds like he is doing his level best. I'd give him a big "Thank You" and a tip of some kind.


Hope it all works out in the long run.


SteveEdited by: MuleDeer

If it were mine, I'd get it running well, detail the heck out of it and sell the rig. Life is too short to worry about a truck's reliability.


Then, I'd make a rational decision about a replacement truck. Given your requirements, a 2500HD with the great 8.1 liter engine looks good.


Why sell it? It had a bad injector, not a cancer spreading throughout the truck!! You could sell it, buy an 8.1 and blow a piston out the side in month!! Sometimes sh%t happens!! There are plenty of guys out there that have had a bad injector or two, or threehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif......had it fixed and ran 100K miles and still going without another problem!! If the truck runs good after getting the injector fixed and doesn't give you any more problems, then why sell it?!?!?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Keep it and enjoy it! I had a gasser and had the infamous knock that GM said is "normal"! I got rid of that and bought the Dmax because I didn't trust the "normal" knock! (I have to say the love the Dmax MUCH more!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Steve, you're 100% right....life is too short to worry about the truck's reliability. You can have the best running truck in the world and some a%$hole can slam into the side of you and total it out when you're 200 miles from home too!!

Rick,


You know, this is just one of those things where you think things can't get any worse, and they do.


Is there another dealer in your area? Maybe Eric could suggest a reason to approach another dealer with a request to run the injector diagnostics after you get it back?


I'd buy several oil analysis kits, from George maybe? Then run some serial tests starting at about 500 miles, go up to a 1000 if that looks good etc. If the oil analysis looks okay and you can get the injector balance tests to show clean, I'd think you'll be okay.


The SM part of this deal reminds me of my dealings with the SM where I just bought my truck. Got a bad feeling about that....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I got treated a lot better at the Chrysler Jeep dealer recently when the heated seat on my Cherokee quit. $750.00 repair and the Jeep was out of warranty time wise but not mileage. The SM there got it covered on warranty with a co-pay from me, can't see the GMC guy doing anything like that. The unusual part of that story is that I'd never even been in that Jeep store. The one I'd dealt with for 32 years on GMC's and Jeeps got sold and the franchises split up, so I've had to find new folks to deal with and there are some real creeps out there. I just spent $43k at the GMC store and the guy acts like he's doing me a favor by talking to me........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'd considered some of the options about going up the food chain, but BlueMaxxxx's comments don't bode well for that approach. Thanks for detailing your experiences and keep us informed.Edited by: Zeeb

Personally I think Rick is going to be in good shape. It sounds like he got a dilligent tech. I would just change my oil a few times and run your oil test. I'm betting you will be on the road problem free. If not, speaking from experience the only way to go is lemon law. Their is nothing in between but spin cycle. I could bend your ears side ways with storys on the crapola GM put us through on the caddy. Trust me on one thing. You have a better chance of winning the lottery twice this week than getting a new engine. I think that is a moot point and you will be hunting with the max again in no time http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Fin-Adict


You're probably right. It just irks the heck out of me that my Campfire cyber-buddy, Rick, and seemingly disproportionate number of members of this forum are having either filter or injector problems.


Since 1978, I've had four Chevrolets and they have all been perfect rigs. Not just good; absolutely flawless.


One of the rigs, a 1978 Silverado, I ran for fifteen years, with nary a hiccup. Our 1998 Suburban and 2002 Avalanche (8.1 liter engine) were equally perfect rigs that I sold simply because I wanted something different. Our current truck, a 2002 Z-71 LT EC/SB 5.3 is simply the most flawless truck I can imagine.


It truly pains me to see guys who spend what is an enormous amount of money to them and not get either the service from the rig or the support from GM that they deserve. It's just plain unfair.


You are right, different folks would handle the miscreant truck in different fashions. I'm an old guy and I simply don't suffer foolish things. I like Krieger barrels and the next guy would have nothing but Shilen. Nobody is right and nobody is wrong; we just handle situations and products in differing fashions.


Steve

...
He showed me the old injector, and the head was black … it looked like carbon and soot.He said it should have been shiny silver.I also noticed a greasy black substance around the nozzle tip. It looked and felt like black grease. He said it was diesel residue, but it sure didn’t look right to me.
...



Sounds like the injector got very, very hot before it siezed. I believe the "black grease" would be asphaltines formed by the excessively high temperatures.

If it were me, I would run a half gallon of rotella DFA through it to make sure things are clean and slippy for the rest of the injectors.

Are you still going to run Primrose after this experience? Or switch to something with measurable results in the lubricity area??

Also, it could have been that emulsified water hit that injector and was abrasive - or water came out of emulsion (does that when temperature drops - you said it happened right after lunch?) -&gt; after that mr. friction went to work. Do you still feel confident about running an emulsifying additive?

jeff

What a learning experience for me - at Campfire_Rick's expense. So, a few questions follow for the forum...

a) If I call a GM dealer, will they tell me over the phone if they have a "GM Certified" deisel mechanic on their permanent staff?

b) If my truck breaks down, can I request via OnStar to be towed to a dealer with a "Certified" diesel mechanic? (Or is this hopeless?)

c) If the answer to b) is "no," would it be worth $100 or so out of my own pocket to have the vehicle towed to another GM Dealer (maybe in another town) that has a "certified" diesel mechanic? (Provided I can determine such information before the tow truck arrives.)

I realize this might be paranoid. But, I'd like to know how to handle such a situation should it ever arise. (Perhaps I should cross post on "Ask the Techs.")

I know Honda dealers are very sensitive to customer feedback; If Honda corporate gets negative feedback about a dealer, they cut back their allocation of cars (i.e. they have less to sell and make less $$$); Funny, when you hit them in the pocketbook, they suddenly "care"...


We need to get educated on what training is available for this truck; The next time I go in for an oil change at my dealer I want to be able to ask the service manager to see the certificates of completion for diesel training x, y, and z for your "duramax tech". I will then state very clearly that I will not be back until they have someone completely trained to service and repair my vehicle. I will then let him know that I am aware that an injector going out on my truck can be up to $4k - that $4k is going to go to another service department. Unless it very clearly hits someone in the pocketbook - nothing happens...


For those of you in the market to buy a truck - you could use this leverage to help us all out and do the same - don't plunk down $40k at a dealer unless they quantify what training their techs have been through (to your satisfaction).


jeff


p.s. In this case, it might be better to asked "closed" questions that guide the person to the answer you want. I don't want to know "if" (open statement) you will train your mechanic, I want to know "when" (closed statement - infers it will happen, now give me a date).Edited by: dmax lover

Interesting quote from GM themselves regarding diesel mechanic experince with the Dmax " The Heavy Duty (3500HD and up) are slow getting off the ground because they have only seen these engines for the last year or so, whereas the light duty dealers (3500HD and down) have seen them since 2000" and that is a direct quote. Funny thing about the way GM classes it's heavy/light dealers. if you have a 3500 with the Heavy Duty emblem in red on the side, then you can have your vehicle repaired at either a heavy or a light dealer. If you have the 3500 with no red HD emblem on the side, then you can only go to a light duty dealer. Same engines, trans etc. etc. Oh well.

Dmax lover wrote:


We need to get educated on what training is available for this truck;


A while back I called my dealer and spoke with the service manager. He stated that there is no certification specific to the Dmax. He stated that all techs should be educated on the Dmax by just taking the general core. Others on this site have said there is specific training/certification for the Dmax. Finally some here have pointed the finger at the actuall technicians for not taking inititive? I am at a loss as where to start?

Bronco,


I hate to add fuel to your fire, but the story gets worse. In my previous encounter with dieseldom, the Frod dealership actually had no proper way, w/techs and equipment, to diagnose problems properly. The dealership didn't have access to a flow bench, dyno or a way to take operating cylinder values. I actually located a private repair shop where the blue oval sent their trouble trucks to be repaired!!!


For example, with my PSD that Frod said was performing within acceptable limits. I had a dyno test done with three runs and the best that s.o.s. could do was 183hp! That was about 90 hp less than it was advertised to have!!!!!!


Dealership repairs are to say the least not high end or high tech.


It comes down to money, thats why if you have a major problem, alot of dealerships will call in a district rep. He'll analize, do the bean counting, and usually opt for the fix where the dollar is best served.


Doug.

I know this is wrong, but...





Your right


Edited by: Mackin

mbeckwith,


The sad part is, after reading that entire website I am still not sure if it is a joke.

UPDATE: 2/6/04


Well boys, finally picked it up today. 16 days to change 1 injector. All paid for under warranty. Credit where credit is due, I guess.


The good news is they got an oil and a fuel sample, which I'll be sending to George. I also plan on putting a few miles on it this weekened, maybe 100-150, then I'm dropping the oil and changing oil and filter. I'll be sending George a sample from that batch too.


I cranked it over, and she sounded OK. Everything seemed OK at the dealer, but as I traveled few blocks to the freeway, in traffic, I noticed white smoke coming out the tailpipe. Enough to blow forward and in the passenger and driver's window. Enough to have other people looking at me like you do to the idiot on the freeway whose car is belching smoke. That was me.


I got on the freeway, finally, and she was smoking pretty good for a while. White smoke, mostly, but some black as well when the turbo kicked in.


By the time I got home, about 15 miles, it seemed to have dissipated some, but I still noticed a bit of white smoke coming out the tailpipe as it idled in the driveway.


I guess the next test is what happens tomorrow morning when I start it cold. If it smokes like it did today leaving the dealer, it's going right back, except to a different dealer next time. I WILL get a ticket if I run it that way.


I'm hoping it just needs to clear itself out and then it will run like before.


Anyone else remember some smoke after an injector job?


Rick


BTW, it was injector #1.

Uhhh
Doesnt white smoke mean a leaking injector?

Make sure you find a better dealer. But let the old one know they F'd up.

It should not be smoking as you suggest unless it is unruely cold ....


Mac

UPDATE: 2/6/04


Well boys, finally picked it up today. 16 days to change 1 injector. All paid for under warranty. Credit where credit is due, I guess.


The good news is they got an oil and a fuel sample, which I'll be sending to George. I also plan on putting a few miles on it this weekened, maybe 100-150, then I'm dropping the oil and changing oil and filter. I'll be sending George a sample from that batch too.


I cranked it over, and she sounded OK. Everything seemed OK at the dealer, but as I traveled few blocks to the freeway, in traffic, I noticed white smoke coming out the tailpipe. Enough to blow forward and in the passenger and driver's window. Enough to have other people looking at me like you do to the idiot on the freeway whose car is belching smoke. That was me.


I got on the freeway, finally, and she was smoking pretty good for a while. White smoke, mostly, but some black as well when the turbo kicked in.


By the time I got home, about 15 miles, it seemed to have dissipated some, but I still noticed a bit of white smoke coming out the tailpipe as it idled in the driveway.


I guess the next test is what happens tomorrow morning when I start it cold. If it smokes like it did today leaving the dealer, it's going right back, except to a different dealer next time. I WILL get a ticket if I run it that way.


I'm hoping it just needs to clear itself out and then it will run like before.


Anyone else remember some smoke after an injector job?


Rick


BTW, it was injector #1.








I hope all is well, if she starts making noises run it till it squeeks to a stop.


After that maybe they have to give you a complete motor.


If I encounter a situation like that I am running it to FAILURE......


GOOD LUCK .....





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gifNY

GMC-2002-dmax wrote:


I hope all is well, if she starts making noises run it till it squeeks to a stop.


After that maybe they have to give you a complete motor.


If I encounter a situation like that I am running it to FAILURE......


GOOD LUCK .....


Are you suggesting putting a brick on the gas pedal and walking away? Conneting a huge trailer and climbing some very large hills?


In situations like this I have even thought about removing the oil. Running her tell she breaks and then reinstalling the old oil? That otta confuse them.

GMC-2002-dmax wrote:


I hope all is well, if she starts making noises run it till it squeeks to a stop.


After that maybe they have to give you a complete motor.


If I encounter a situation like that I am running it to FAILURE......


GOOD LUCK .....


Are you suggesting putting a brick on the gas pedal and walking away? Conneting a huge trailer and climbing some very large hills?


In situations like this I have even thought about removing the oil. Running her tell she breaks and then reinstalling the old oil? That otta confuse them.





Rev Limiter will not allow that, oil pressure switch would have to be dummied out http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif, then run her till it squeeks.


Just hope it never comes to that............


I do not think a brick on the old pedal would work, but some extra HIGH EGTS for an extended period of time might cause a meltdown http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


But I would never suggest doing that.........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Rick,


What's going on? No posts and it is too darned quiet on your end. Is the rig running OK?


I bought Karen (wife of 40 years) a new Tahoe LT yesterday to replace her 99 Blazer. Whoa, gorgeous ride.


Steve

Steve and all:


I picked up the truck Friday, and it smoked on the way home, but it has pretty much cleared up after about 50 miles. I'm going to drop the oil tomorrow and save a sample, send it out to George, and then do it again after 2000 miles. If no fuel in oil, I'll be a happy camper.


So far, so good, but I'm driving it to Vegas this weekend, and I wish I didn't have to worry. If it makes it without a hitch, I think I may decide to forget about the injector and run her LARA.


BTW, congrats on the Tahoe (or maybe I should congratulate the missushttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif)


Rick

I just read your this whole 6 page story.. Here is my summary as a GM tech that has done over 10 duramax's for faulty injectors (as a matter of fact one in my bay right now).


I would NEVER take my truck to that dealership again!!





Although the tech that did your job seemed to be a nice guy, I would have never let him touch any truck in my shop. I dont even see how he can go to training if he cant speak english. I can not believe they didnt know what oil to put in your truck and/or how much. I didnt even know dealerships allowed people like that to work on vehicles.


I have only worked at one dealership, the one I am currently at and our service department is ranked #1 in our area. We do EVERYTHING and ANYTHING we can to please our customers. We send drivers 80 miles to pick up vehicles for tire rotations and oil changes. It just really bothers me that there are dealerships out there that are that crappy. I do know that there are bad service dept. because we have people that drive 100s of miles just to let us service thier vehicles. I think GM should give the public a chance to see the service departments ratings so one could choose a reliable service department to do thier repairs.





Anyways sounds like they got your truck fixed. And I hope it continues to perform well. If not PLEASE dont go back to that service department.





Tanner

Campfire Rick,


I guess the guy who worked on your truck should feel very privileged!


You should right a letter to The GM customer service survey people explaing your entire ordeal. Even if they throw it in the trash at least you will have done your part!

Take it out on the freeway and keep it to the floor for 20 minutes. She will run or blow.

... I think GM should give the public a chance to see the service departments ratings so one could choose a reliable service department to do thier repairs.


Tanner

OK! How can we as consumers get this information from our local dealers. Would this rating be posted somewhere? It seems like since this is such a big issue, a whole forum with dealers broken down by state could be added for people to go to and rate their dealers. I would think some sort of outside ratings in addtion to our own personal experience would be good.

OK! How can we as consumers get this information from our local dealers. Would this rating be posted somewhere? It seems like since this is such a big issue, a whole forum with dealers broken down by state could be added for people to go to and rate their dealers. I would think some sort of outside ratings in addtion to our own personal experience would be good.





Truthfully I dont know, but I will ask our service manager tomorrow how to find out or if it possible.





Tanner

Hey Rick,
This should make you feel better about your truck. My truck, 04 DMAX LB7, is in the shop with 2200 miles and the injectors went bad already. It made a noise when I first started it, smoked bad but cleared up. Then when trying to get on hyway it started crapping out. Would only produce 1800 RPM any more peddle and it just had no power or sound from the engine. At 1800 though it was quiet so it was strange to me. I have worked on big trucks before so I knew right away it was the injectors. I think the problem is the quality of the injectors. I will find out Monday how many are bad. They said they will replace 4 or 8 at a time. I hope I don't have any problems with my dealer. I don't think I will though. Good luck with your trip.
Bill




Steve and all:


I picked up the truck Friday, and it smoked on the way home, but it has pretty much cleared up after about 50 miles. I'm going to drop the oil tomorrow and save a sample, send it out to George, and then do it again after 2000 miles. If no fuel in oil, I'll be a happy camper.


So far, so good, but I'm driving it to Vegas this weekend, and I wish I didn't have to worry. If it makes it without a hitch, I think I may decide to forget about the injector and run her LARA.


BTW, congrats on the Tahoe (or maybe I should congratulate the missushttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif)


Rick

You guys have really got me worried. I bought my first diesel, an '04 Chevy 4x4 LB7 with the Allison and thought I was getting the best truck on the road. I was hoping for years and miles of trouble free service from it.


With all these nightmare stories I'm starting to think I should have kept my '90 F250 - only one non-maintenance repair in 14 years.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

You guys have really got me worried. I bought my first diesel, an '04 Chevy 4x4 LB7 with the Allison and thought I was getting the best truck on the road. I was hoping for years and miles of trouble free service from it.


With all these nightmare stories I'm starting to think I should have kept my '90 F250 - only one non-maintenance repair in 14 years.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif





DonMax -


There are a few horror stories out there. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif That doesn't necessarily mean that those of us who have '04 LB7's are going to have problems. Those of us who got the last of the LB7's in '04 need to remember that we have the latest improvements to that engine. I'm sure we will hear some horror stories about the LLY engines after those who have them put on some miles. Isuzu has built millions of diesel engines and they build a durable product. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif That is why GM chose Isuzu.


You should be glad you diidn't buy a Super Duty with the 6.0 engine. Ford had more problems with the first ones in production than GM ever had with the first Duramaxs in '01.


This is a great website with a lot of nice people and many pages of useful information.


Enjoy your new truck!