I broke down this weekend and traded my 31ft travel trailer for a 33ft 5th wheel. To my surprise the ride home from the dealership was terrible. My truck has a 4 inch CST spindle lift with 3 inch blocks in the back with 35 inch tires. I had the dealer lower my Husky hitch as low as it can go and they even raised the pin on the 5th wheel. I would have never done a 4inch lift had I knew that I would get a 5th wheel. The angle on 5th wheel while on my truck is not too bad but it certainly is not level.


I would take the lift off of my truck and put smaller tires on it but I regeared for the 35 inch tires and do not feel like changing it back to stock. My plans are to get air bags and go to a 2 inch lift block in the rear to help with the trailer angle. I guess what my real questions are will the air bags help smooth out the ride? I can live with the 5th wheel not being perfectly level but the ride was just terrible. I have always heard that a 5th wheel tows 10 times better then a travel trailer. All I can say is that my travel trailer didn't feel nearly as jerky as the new trailer does. Any help or suggestions would be appreciated.

I didnt think you could pull a 5th wheel with a lift. Do you have any pics? I would imagine that its unsafe to do for the reasons you mentioned about poor handling.

Well, I have a lot of stuff to say here, forgive the long post, and please take it as constructive info, not criticism.

- Lifting you truck makes it a much less stable platform for towing. Fifth wheels ARE notoriously stable and better handling, but they rely on what's pulling them to be stable to begin with. Adding a lift and big rubber dramatically destroy stability under load, and you're now seeing the effects.

- What are the tires weight ratings? Are they up to handling the weight or are they squirming all over the place under the pin weight of the fiver? Fifth wheels put dramatically more weight on the rear axle, and therefore, tires. That trailer probably has over 2500# of pin weight - perhaps even more if you have a fiver with a bedroom slide or an upstairs living room.

- Is your truck a 1500, 2500...3500? If it's a half ton, you are WAY over it's abilities even before you degraded it's towing abilities with the mods - you cannot pull that size of a fiver with a half ton. Even a 2500 will be stressed pulling a 33 foot fiver which probably weighs anywhere from 13000 to 15000 pounds, and again, the mods are degrading your towing ability/stability. Also, the weight of the trailer is needed here...

- If it's behaving like this empty, consider what it's gonna feel like when you add another 1000# or more of contents.

- A fifth wheel really should be level to be properly stable. Presumably you are WAY high on the nose of the fiver, which in turn is putting a lot more weight on the rear axle of the trailer instead of spreading it equally amongst the tandems. This will just add further to stability issues as now the trailer tires could be squirming as well as the truck tires. Trailers need to be level to tow properly.

- Air bags will jack the back end of the truck back up in the air if you remove some of the lift, but why is is sagging to the point that it needs bags? Again, what are the ratings of the truck? Air bags can also potentially make it LESS stable depending on many variables.

Hi Turbobruce,

It would help to know just what "terrible" means to you, as in a better discription would be helpfull.

You do need to have both the truck and trailer at "Level" loaded for the road, to maximize your safety and control, and equipment longgevity.

You really should have done your "Home Work" before you jumped to that 5th wheel. Also, that "Dealer" should have known better than to send you off the Lot set up that way.

PrivatePilot gives good advice.

If you really want to keep that truck "as is", then go back to a Pull-Behind with an "equalizer/anti-sway unit".

If you really want to keep that Trailer, and the Truck, then ditch the Lift and larger wheels and tires, and go back closer to stock size. Keep the gears, as those will nicely improve your pulling power with that large of a 5th Wheel.

Harold

Bottom line for good towing is the trailer frame needs to be parallel (level) to ground when hitched up and loaded for a trip. This put the trailer suspension in the neutral (designed) position and doesn't compromise the suspension travel -compression or rebound. Nose high trailer puts extra load on the rear most axle by pushing down and remove load from front trailer axles by lifting up. Air bags can help truck squat but you need to get your combination "leveled" out for it to work properly.

Depending on your trailer -there might be some height adjustment available to you. Look at the trailer spring hangers do you have an open set of holes in a lower to the ground location. If yes -this will get you about 2" of lift on the trailer. Other wise you might need to do a "spring over axle" conversion. This will get about 5" but you need to be careful to keep trailer under 13'6" height.

My fiver tows great with my 2001 or 2006 dmax. 2001 has a 4" lift and tows great. But I use bags to keep it leveled out.

2006 is more stable with just 2.5" of lift.

I see 6" lifts towing fivers all the time in Cali. Get the trailer sitting level and the gap proper between the bed and trailer.

It'll work.

I tow a 39 foot 5th wheel with a 7-9 cognito lift and have no problems but then again my 5th wheel has a 6'' subframe lift and I also run carli long travel airbags.

My truck is a 2500 and I don't feel like I'm all over the road by any means at all. When I said the ride was horrible I meant that it has a push pull motion that is going on and makes the ride feel very jerky. As for the tires, the are d rated and can handle 3200 pounds each. The pin weight is onlt 1375lbs dry and the trailer is 9k even dry. As far as the angle goes it's not perfectly level but I can still back the trailer into my driveway which is pretty steep. I called the dealership and explained my situtation and the mechanic said the trailer will have a chucking motion to it and that it is normal. I really don't feel out of control I just expected a much better ride then my travel trailer. Maybe my travel trailer was just a great towing trailer? Will airbags smooth my ride out?

Dumb question, where does the pin sit in the bed in relation to axle? If it's behind the axle it could cause a rocking motion.

Dumb question, where does the pin sit in the bed in relation to axle? If it's behind the axle it could cause a rocking motion.


I have a slider hitch and it's over the axel right now.

You say "jerky". Does that mean up and down or front to back?


If it's up and down, try GM's revised rear cab mounts on your truck before you do anything else.

Cab mount praise (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=409877&highlight=cab+mounts)

The cab mounts REALLY help with unwanted dynamics on Crew Cab Longbeds, but also help on Extended cab and Shortbeds.

The pin weight is onlt 1375lbs dry and the trailer is 9k even dry.

Did you weigh it on a scale, or are you going off the brochure info? That seems pretty light for that big of a trailer.

My truck is a 2500 and I don't feel like I'm all over the road by any means at all. When I said the ride was horrible I meant that it has a push pull motion that is going on and makes the ride feel very jerky.

Ahh, ok. Yes, that's referred to as "Chuck" and is a common issue with 5th wheels. Typical solutions are to increase the pin weight of the trailer or get a better hitch that has fore/aft isolation ability. Getting the trailer level properly will also help as it will likely shift weight onto the pin.

Many people find that if it's minor (and what may seem major now may only feel that way because you're not used to it) they get used to it.

The pin weight is onlt 1375lbs dry and the trailer is 9k even dry.

I think if you scale that trailer you're going to find it's heavier then that - 9K dry is REALLY light for a 33' Fifth wheel. If that's what you're reading off the sticker it's typically the "default" weight for the base model with no options, not even the static weight of empty LP cylinders, much less air conditioners and all the extras.

Check the GVWR of the trailer for a more realistic weight, not the placarded empty weight. Most trailers today are such that by the time you load them they are at (or easily over) the GVWR.

Either way you should be OK with a 2500 truck.

I called the dealership and explained my situtation and the mechanic said the trailer will have a chucking motion to it and that it is normal.

Normal? Arguably yes. A lot of people on the RV forums will argue that chucking is not normal, but in a perfect world you won't get any...few people meet that perfect world scenario. I get chuck with my setup even though my truck is a massive overkill for the size of my fiver.

Take whatever the RV dealership says with a grain of salt though, they are well known for saying whatever is necessary to move product, often not based on reality or safety.

I really don't feel out of control

That's good news, sorry if I seemed overkill in my first response then, but it sounded like you were having controllability issues. :beerchug:

I just expected a much better ride then my travel trailer. Maybe my travel trailer was just a great towing trailer? Will airbags smooth my ride out?

Like I said, unless the chuck is so bad that you're getting jerked back and forth in your seat, you may find that you adjust to it and don't really notice it anymore. Most new fifth wheel owners do notice it right out of the gate like yourself though, but many adjust and don't notice it anymore. Heymccall has a point regarding the cab mounts perhaps being partially at fault, or at least exacerbating the situation.

Airbags MAY help as it will allow the rear axle to float a little more and may absorb some of the torsional forces that are causing it. I have airbags on my CCDRW (in my signature) more so to help boost up my sagging leaf springs, but I might venture to say that it reduced chuck a little as well. GOOD shocks are necessary if you go with air bags as although it can help with chucking a little, it can induce bounce - another ball of wax.

Did you weigh it on a scale, or are you going off the brochure info? That seems pretty light for that big of a trailer.

+1. We were responding at the same time.

For the record, my 30' fifth wheel with only one slide weighs more than that.

Did you weigh it on a scale, or are you going off the brochure info? That seems pretty light for that big of a trailer.


The weight is posted on the door. It is 9030lbs empty. The trailer is a Cougar 293SAB.

You say "jerky". Does that mean up and down or front to back?


.


To be honest it could be both that I was feeling. I will take it on another drive tomorrow to get a better feel for what is going on.

That's actually a 29' model with a GVWR of just a shade under 12,000#. Expect it to weigh every pound of that assuming it's has even the most basic options (AC), full propane tanks, water, and all your gear.

That's actually a 29' model with a GVWR of just a shade under 12,000#. Expect it to weigh every pound of that assuming it's has even the most basic options (AC), full propane tanks, water, and all your gear.

It measures out to 33.5ft long. I have a hard time believing I will add that much weight to it. I figure I will be around 10,500 to 11,000 loaded with water max. I could be wrong though.

You will be surprised the first time you put it on the scale. Many RV'ers are surprised to find that they are actually in *excess* of their trailers GVWR the first time they actually roll them onto a scale in the "ready to go camping" loaded scenario.

The stated empty weight has little relevance in the reality of todays RV's. Like I mentioned, they don't include ANY options in that figure, yet virtually every model that rolls off the line has all those options. Add an AC (or two), a second TV, 2 30# propane tanks (plus the propane to fill them), a larger than default fridge, a floorplan option or two (such as a couch instead of chairs, for example), etc etc and you can see what I'm getting at.

I'd be surprised if, the way it's sitting in your driveway right now, that trailer weighs less then 10,500LBS.

You will be surprised the first time you put it on the scale. Many RV'ers are surprised to find that they are actually in *excess* of their trailers GVWR the first time they actually roll them onto a scale in the "ready to go camping" loaded scenario.

The stated empty weight has little relevance in the reality of todays RV's. Like I mentioned, they don't include ANY options in that figure, yet virtually every model that rolls off the line has all those options. Add an AC (or two), a second TV, 2 30# propane tanks (plus the propane to fill them), a larger than default fridge, a floorplan option or two (such as a couch instead of chairs, for example), etc etc and you can see what I'm getting at.

I'd be surprised if, the way it's sitting in your driveway right now, that trailer weighs less then 10,500LBS.



I didn't know this. I will have to go weight it soon. I have a weight station just down the road. I guess the weight really isn't a problem. I just want to have a smooth ride.:)

Yep, either way your truck is capable of pulling it without much concern, but I think you'll be surprised none the less once you get it all ready to go.

Don't bother scaling it before you get it to the "ready to go camping" stage. All the stuff you're going to put in it adds up really quick. Anyone who has ever lifted a box full of canned food...or a case of beer (or three :)) can relate.

It may be possible that your hitch is not adjusted properly. There may be a bolt with a lock nut on it that adjusts how tight the hitch engages with the pin & you may have yours set to loose which may be causing some of this jerking.

It may be possible that your hitch is not adjusted properly. There may be a bolt with a lock nut on it that adjusts how tight the hitch engages with the pin & you may have yours set to loose which may be causing some of this jerking.


I do have a large bolt on it. I will check that out right away. Can anybody tell me if I need spacers for the Ride Rite air bags if I have a 2 inch lift block in the back? I'm having a hard time finding 2 inch spacers and would rather not buy them if I didn't need them. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

I do have a large bolt on it. I will check that out right away. Can anybody tell me if I need spacers for the Ride Rite air bags if I have a 2 inch lift block in the back? I'm having a hard time finding 2 inch spacers and would rather not buy them if I didn't need them. Thanks for all the help so far guys.


the bags are mounted to the leaf spring right? and you have the stock leaf spring right? the lift blocks are between the stock spring pack and the axle thus creating the lift... so it should all be considered a stock height setup for the air assist, I'd imagine... no spacers or blocks needed. the distance from the frame to the leaf spring wasn't changed by the addition of the Lift blocks to the bottom of the leaf pack.

I do have a large bolt on it. I will check that out right away. Can anybody tell me if I need spacers for the Ride Rite air bags if I have a 2 inch lift block in the back? I'm having a hard time finding 2 inch spacers and would rather not buy them if I didn't need them. Thanks for all the help so far guys.

the bags are mounted to the leaf spring right? and you have the stock leaf spring right? the lift blocks are between the stock spring pack and the axle thus creating the lift... so it should all be considered a stock height setup for the air assist, I'd imagine... no spacers or blocks needed. the distance from the frame to the leaf spring wasn't changed by the addition of the Lift blocks to the bottom of the leaf pack.


Yes you will need spacers. On the GM trucks the bags mount in place of the bumpstops, between the axle tube and the frame. This distance does change when lift blocks are added.

Here's a good picture of a bag setup
Nor-Cal Nick's bag setup (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/vbpicgallery.php?do=big&p=59139)

Try sliding your hitch in front of the rear axle. I had the same problem with my old 5er and when I slid the hitch in front of the axle it helped somewhat. Air bags definately help and so does more pin weight.

I'm confused because I have read a couple of posts here that say they are not useing any spacers with a 2 inch lift block and they have no issues. I called 4 Wheel parts and the guy told me that when they install Firestone ride rite bags they do not use spacers on trucks with just a 2 inch lift block in the back.

I'm confused because I have read a couple of posts here that say they are not useing any spacers with a 2 inch lift block and they have no issues. I called 4 Wheel parts and the guy told me that when they install Firestone ride rite bags they do not use spacers on trucks with just a 2 inch lift block in the back.

The bags may have enough give for the 2in blocks to not cause problems. Everyone I know with bags is still at stock height in the rear. However, the mounting location is still the same in that the distance is affected by the lift block. Hopefully someone with a small lift can chime in.

Take a look at this video
http://www.demco-products.com/glideride/glideridevideo.html

I've had this pin box on two fifth wheels and they are great at getting rid of the chucking.
http://www.demco-products.com/glideride.html

Take a look at this video
http://www.demco-products.com/glideride/glideridevideo.html

I've had this pin box on two fifth wheels and they are great at getting rid of the chucking.
http://www.demco-products.com/glideride.html




Very nice but pricey.:eek:

With any trailer, when the trailer tires go over a bump or through a pot hole, the added rolling resistance from the initial rise of the bump or when coming out of the pot hole tends to tug on the hitch. The higher the hitch point is from the axle the worse the chucking will be. A tow behind hitch is mostly inline with the axle. A gooseneck is some higher and a fifth wheel is higher yet. When you add a lift it gets even worse. I don't think the size of tire makes a difference for chucking. If you want to leave the truck as is, take a look at my previous post about the Demco Glide Ride pin box. It really works.

Very nice but pricey.:eek:

Google it. You can find them for a lot less than from Demco. They really don't seem to want to sell direct. I stopped at their plant to pick one up and it was like that had never happened before.

Thanks for the info!


The first thing I will try is to get rid of the 3 inch block in the back and go with a two inch one. I'm going to purchase the Firestone air bags on monday. I'm also going to lower the front end by a half inch by cranking down the torsion bars. Hopefully I will still achieve a level truck by doing so.



I almost wish I had never done the gears because I could just take off the lift spindles and blocks in the back and go with a smaller tire like a 285. If I don't have any luck with these steps I will look into a different pin box. What really stinks is my truck pulled my last travel trailer perfectly and it weighed about 10k loaded. Oh well I will figure it out. The new 5th wheel is awesome! Having two bathrooms is going to be great being that I have three daughters and a wife always fighting for the bathroom.:D

A lot of good suggestions. One comment stands out for me. And was addressed by "hosehog113".

Make sure center of the fifth wheel hitch is AHEAD of the rear axle. I have mine ahead by about 2 inches. When the trailer chucks forward it squats the truck front and back. It it does not squat the back and lift the front.

Look at the broad side of your truck and trailer (fully rigged and ready for camping). Consider how much the rear of truck is sagged. Or use a plumb bob from the axle to the top of the box. Measure at least an inch and one half forward and that should be the center of the trailer hitch pin. The plumb gives you a vertical line straight up from the axle regardless of the pitch/sag of the truck.

As the pull or tug on the trailer transfers trailer weight on then off the fifth wheel pin, and the hitch is too far back in the truck, that squats the rear and lifts the front causing an interesting ride.

If you have a short box, watch the tight turns and don't let the trailer take out the cab back window. But the ride is worth the fix.

Lastly, hitch forward avoids under steer when running on ice/wet roads.

A lot of good suggestions. One comment stands out for me. And was addressed by "hosehog113".

Make sure center of the fifth wheel hitch is AHEAD of the rear axle. I have mine ahead by about 2 inches. When the trailer chucks forward it squats the truck front and back. It it does not squat the back and lift the front.

Look at the broad side of your truck and trailer (fully rigged and ready for camping). Consider how much the rear of truck is sagged. Or use a plumb bob from the axle to the top of the box. Measure at least an inch and one half forward and that should be the center of the trailer hitch pin. The plumb gives you a vertical line straight up from the axle regardless of the pitch/sag of the truck.

As the pull or tug on the trailer transfers trailer weight on then off the fifth wheel pin, and the hitch is too far back in the truck, that squats the rear and lifts the front causing an interesting ride.

If you have a short box, watch the tight turns and don't let the trailer take out the cab back window. But the ride is worth the fix.

Lastly, hitch forward avoids under steer when running on ice/wet roads.


The dealership installed the slider hitch. I sure hope they installed it in the right spot. I will check it out tomorrow to see if the pin is right above the axel. I did make sure that the slider was in the correct position for towing. I really feel that the air bags should help things out a bunch. I hope I get used to the poping sound I hear everytime I accelerate or come to a stop. I also added some weight (camping gear)to the trailer to bring up the pin weight as well. Thanks for the info!

Popping sound?

Perhaps as another member suggested you have some pinslap going on.

With the trailer brakes manually applied to 100% (to hold it in place) is there any slack in the hitch/pin when you put the truck in drive/reverse?

Popping sound?

Perhaps as another member suggested you have some pinslap going on.

With the trailer brakes manually applied to 100% (to hold it in place) is there any slack in the hitch/pin when you put the truck in drive/reverse?


I did look to see if I could adjust the clamps that hold the pin but there is no adjustment for it. I will check for slack tomorrow. Should ther be no slack at all when the pin is in the hitch?

If you are getting back and forth jerking motion, you are experiencing "chucking". My old 5th wheel never did it, but my new one was very bad. I installed a 5th Airborne pin box and the problem went away totally. Check the link below.

http://www.etrailer.com/Fifth-Wheel-King-Pin/Fifth-Gear/5AB-S800.html?feed=npn

I pull a 38 ft Weekedn Warrior Fifth wheel with my 2500 and I use the Super Glide slider hitch....i don't have the chucking problem that you have....the fix a lot of folks do is flip the axles on the trailer. A buddy of mine had to do that to his Warrior trailer because they ride so low and his Ford sat pretty high on the stock 20" wheels. You need to get that trailer LEVEL.....then all of these problems you are trying to compensate for with bags will go away. Just by raising the rear end of the truck you will actually make the problem worse. If the truck is level it doesn't matter because the trailer isn't level. You MUST get the trailer level either by flipping the axles or lifting the sub frame. Once the trailer rides level THEN and only then should you adjust the TRUCK to stay level with the airbags.

I pull a 38 ft Weekedn Warrior Fifth wheel with my 2500 and I use the Super Glide slider hitch....i don't have the chucking problem that you have....the fix a lot of folks do is flip the axles on the trailer. A buddy of mine had to do that to his Warrior trailer because they ride so low and his Ford sat pretty high on the stock 20" wheels. You need to get that trailer LEVEL.....then all of these problems you are trying to compensate for with bags will go away. Just by raising the rear end of the truck you will actually make the problem worse. If the truck is level it doesn't matter because the trailer isn't level. You MUST get the trailer level either by flipping the axles or lifting the sub frame. Once the trailer rides level THEN and only then should you adjust the TRUCK to stay level with the airbags.



I understand what your saying. The axles are already flipped from the factory and I'm still a little higher on the truck then I should be. I want the airbags so I can add more pin weight without the truck sqwatting too much. I'm putting the 2 inch blocks in the back in place of the 3 inch ones I have now to help bring up the back of the trailer.

I did look to see if I could adjust the clamps that hold the pin but there is no adjustment for it. I will check for slack tomorrow. Should ther be no slack at all when the pin is in the hitch?

Ideally there shouldn't be. Most fifth wheel hitches for LDT's done have adjustments (mine doesn't) but if yours does it was a possibility.

Any idea where the noises are coming from? Unless it's pinslap, Any sort of creaking/snapping noises from a hitch under load is of concern, I'd be worried something might be loose.

The super glide makes some noise...i have one and it is held to the rails with large pins not bolts and then the actual body of the slider itself is seated on the rails in the bed by pins so I get some noise out of mine when accelerating sometimes....and PIN slap sometimes on a hill from a stop light or under heavy braking....some noise from a slider is normal....they have moving parts that other fixed hitches do not.

UPDATE,


After searching on the internet last night on pin slap I found a post where a guy was having a lot of noise coming from his hitch. It turns out that he made metal shims to put between the rails and the hich itself. I went to the hardware store today and bought some very thin sheet metal and made some myself.


I also shimmed the slider and it eliminated all of the noise and the ride was a 100 times better. I jumped on the freeway and could not believe how much better the trailer towed! As far as the angle on the trailer to the truck it really isn't that bad. It's not level but I don't feel it's bad at all. I still plan on putting a 2 inch lift block to bring the rear of the truck down a little and will add bags to firm up the back a little. Here is a pic of my truck and 5th wheel.
Today was a beter day and I feel a lot better about my purchase! Now if I can just figure out how to install my solar panels on this beast. The picture actually makes look a little more level then it really is but I think I will be fine.

More views of the angle.

Your pin can take out some of the rotational slop too and if you get the loose mess out of the hitch assembly it will pull right. Looks like you see the pin weight sitting in the hitch to make it nest nice . Sounds like you figured out alot of the problem solving. Wear it in with some use now.

Your pin can take out some of the rotational slop too and if you get the loose mess out of the hitch assembly it will pull right. Looks like you see the pin weight sitting in the hitch to make it nest nice . Sounds like you figured out alot of the problem solving. Wear it in with some use now.


I plan on useing it this next weekend!:) I don't regret the lift as much anymore.:D I do however worry about the D rated tires I have on it. The tires can handle 3195lbs at 50 psi. I hope it's enough. I will need tires soon and I hope I can find a better tire in a 315/75/16. I have not found any E rated tires in that size yet. My BFGs have served me well so far and won't have a problem buying them again if thay can handle the new load.

"D" load rating tires can only handle 65 PSI so you'll want to shoot for an "E" ratinf because they just plain handle the load better. With the kind of pin weight you are running you'll want the "E" rating. You will notice a difference in the way the truck handles with "E" rated tires also. the side wall handles the load way better than a MAXED out "D" load rating tire ever will. The truck won't wiggle as bad, and you'll notice an improvement in fuel economy because the "E" rated tires roll better under load...you're not squashing the tire against the pavement like the "D" tire. Get some "E"'s

by the way....you're trailer is darn near level....that is not that bad at all....i PASS guys all the time on my way to Glamis that look way worse than that.....i think you are fine....i would actually raise the trailer as much as possible. If you look in my garage you'll see how my fifth wheel sits pretty low also, i only run 285's on my truck but my trailer doesn't sit level when the truck is level....i need to raise it up a little also. They make some kits, or you could make pieces to move the springs lower....if you raised that trailer 3" you would be set up just fine.

I agree, it looks pretty darned good as it sits. Glad you're getting things worked out and it's starting to jive. :)

Post in Electrical (or towing, seeing as how it's an RV install) for help with the solar system. Lots of guys here (me included) who are quite comfortable with electric wiring, and solar is pretty simple. I have first hand experience with installing a few systems on RV's myself.

Thanks guys!


The pics are a little deceiving, the trailer is a little low in the back but I'm not going to lose sleep over it. As for as my tires, They say 50 psi max and are d rated. I cannot find a E rated tire in 315/75/16. Anybody know where to get a E rated in that size?

Look'n good. Mine's not that level with stock tires.

Air Bags... if you get too much air in them, they tend to bounce unless you have good shocks on the truck. Otherwise I like them just to level the truck a bit. Usually run 25 lbs in the bags with trailer on, just enough to steady the load. I put about 15 lbs in bags, then hook up and the weight takes them to 25-30.

One more question,


What is a safe distance between the bottom of the 5th wheel trailer and the top of the bed of the truck? I have maybe 7 or 8 inches of space between the two after I raised the pin box up and lowered the hitch down as low as it could go. I had to adjust it this way to get the trailer angle closer to a level position.

I have 9.5 inched on my setup -we go off-road all the time in the National Forests of Oregon, Idaho and Washington.

5-6 is minimum for a pavement queen.....

Your pictures look ok but agree it is still a tad nose high. It might be ok here. A couple of camping trips will help you get a handle on the load balance.

Take your trailer loaded for a trip to the scale -it will surpise you....AS shipping weights don't include propane fuel, water, batteries or any of your "stuff"

I have 9.5 inched on my setup -we go off-road all the time in the National Forests of Oregon, Idaho and Washington.

5-6 is minimum for a pavement queen.....


I may be in trouble with my settings then. I go out to desert a lot and it can be hilly and very bumpy.

Might want to look at installing some rollers on the back of the trailer. Long trailers like to drag sometimes when transitioning from level road to going uphill.

I may be in trouble with my settings then. I go out to desert a lot and it can be hilly and very bumpy.


If off-road camping is one of your goals -just go right to the spring over axle conversion. This gets you 4-5" of trailer lift. You will then be able to level out trailer plus get your bed rail to trailer clearance in the proper range.

I had to do this to my trailer running on LT265/75R16 @ stock height to get a level trailer plus the bed rail clearance desired.

If off-road camping is one of your goals -just go right to the spring over axle conversion. This gets you 4-5" of trailer lift. You will then be able to level out trailer plus get your bed rail to trailer clearance in the proper range.

I had to do this to my trailer running on LT265/75R16 @ stock height to get a level trailer plus the bed rail clearance desired.




The springs are already over the axel.

First trip with the new 4th wheel update:



Well I installed my air bags and headed out camping for the weekend. I started out with 80psi in the bags and quickly found out that it was way too much air in the bags! The ride was very bouncy so I pulled over and aired it down to 65 psi. Again too bouncy and pulled over again and went down to 50 this time. The ride was less bouncy but I wouldn't call it smooth by any means. The chucking was pretty bad at times and scared my wife a couple of times. I set the air bags to 30 psi on the way home and the ride was better but still no where near as good as my old 31ft Laredo travel trailer.


I guess my expectations of pulling a 5th wheel were too high. I have had so many friends tell me that a 5th wheel trailer tows a 100 times better then a travel trailer. I guess I had the best towing travel trailer out there. At this point I'm considering ditching the lift on my truck to get the trailer "perfectly level" but as you guys can see in my pics, my trailer is not too unlevel. I'm wondering if my tires add to the problem being that I have a tall sidewall(my tires are 315/75/16). I may get a new pin box like a airborne or Glide rite as suggested and see if that helps. I will also take the bags down to 20 psi and see if that does anything. Other then almost dropping the trailer on the bed of the truck:eek: the trip was great and we love the new 5th wheel. I really hope I can figure things out before I start tearing the truck apart. I really appreciate everyones comments so far.

My buddy tows 39 foot Gearbox with a six inch lift and 35's all the time with no problems to Glamis, Dumont, and Pismo. He has a 2003 Ford F250 and tows just a good as my other buddy with a 40foot weekend warrier and his stock 07 chevy. They tow together and I have never seen the lifted truck struggle at all compare to the stock chevy even in the hardest winds and roads. Hope you get it fixed.

Like I mentioned, the chucking is part of the 5th wheel experience. Some people experience it, some people don't. Your suspension setup is what's making it very pronounced in your experience.

This doesn't remove the benefits of the fifth wheel, keep in mind. You'll still be able to jam that trailer into campsites or tight spots you'd NEVER get a ball hitch trailer into. Most importantly, if you ever get in a panic situation (emergency lane change, for example) a fifth wheel will behave itself and stay solid behind you, whereas a ball trailer would start to sway and possibly become out of control.

The first time you pull it in challenging weather conditions (especially windy days) you'll also find it's far superior as well.

Did you try the bags lower than 30#? You can go as low as 10PSI, and you may find you only need 20 or so. The bags add bounce, no question, and that will just make the chuck worse.

If your shocks aren't in tip top shape, they could be a big part of the bounce you are experiencing with the air bags. On our 06' 2500 I had to use around 75psi to level things up (lotta pin weight with the generator, 6volt batteries and lots of gear in the front). We never had much bounce problem but I always kept good shocks on it. On the LML I have only towed once and the truck sagged a little more than I like so I have since added bags but have not towed with them; I'm guessing that it's going to require a lot less air as it squatted far less than the 06'.

Like I mentioned, the chucking is part of the 5th wheel experience. Some people experience it, some people don't. Your suspension setup is what's making it very pronounced in your experience.

This doesn't remove the benefits of the fifth wheel, keep in mind. You'll still be able to jam that trailer into campsites or tight spots you'd NEVER get a ball hitch trailer into. Most importantly, if you ever get in a panic situation (emergency lane change, for example) a fifth wheel will behave itself and stay solid behind you, whereas a ball trailer would start to sway and possibly become out of control.

The first time you pull it in challenging weather conditions (especially windy days) you'll also find it's far superior as well.

Did you try the bags lower than 30#? You can go as low as 10PSI, and you may find you only need 20 or so. The bags add bounce, no question, and that will just make the chuck worse.



I lowered the bags to 30 psi on the way home from my trip. I will try 20 on my next trip which is in two weeks. As foar as shock go, I have Bilstein 5100s on the truck.

I lowered the bags to 30 psi on the way home from my trip. I will try 20 on my next trip which is in two weeks. As foar as shock go, I have Bilstein 5100s on the truck.
is there a pin locking adjustment that will let you tighten the grip on the pin? usually chucking like that is because the pin has a little clearance in the locking mech.

is there a pin locking adjustment that will let you tighten the grip on the pin? usually chucking like that is because the pin has a little clearance in the locking mech.



Not from what I can tell. I don't think the clearence is an issue because there is no clunking noise at all. I could be wrong though. I do think Privatepilot is right about not being used to towing a 5th wheel. I think it's probably just something I will have to adjust to. I will continue to try and make the ride better.

After trying many different air psi's, mine rides best at 18psi in the bags. Once above 25psi, it'll ride "bouncy". This is just my opinion, nothing scientific to prove or anything, but when the overload leafspring was fully compressed with my 5ver, the air bags should not "lift" the leafs off of it. When I had too much air, the overload leaf was not in contact when loaded. When I went over a bump/pothole/etc, it would load the overload leaf and spring the back end up, sort of like a pogo stick. That's how I got to 18psi, took me about 5 trips to dial it in. Enjoy! Chris

Also, tires are not as easy to compare as they used to be. E vs. D, psi, etc, load rating is what you want to look at. E's can be rated from 65psi to 80. Your current tires are rated high load (3195)than what came on the truck stock if you had 245's, which most, if not all did back then, which was 3042lbs. How much psi really doesn't matter any more. But I would feel more confident riding with a 3195 E rated vs. a 3195 D rated, pretty much all mental though.

E rated tires make an enormous difference.

E rated tires make an enormous difference.



Why? Is it because of the stiffer sidewall?

After trying many different air psi's, mine rides best at 18psi in the bags. Once above 25psi, it'll ride "bouncy". This is just my opinion, nothing scientific to prove or anything, but when the overload leafspring was fully compressed with my 5ver, the air bags should not "lift" the leafs off of it. When I had too much air, the overload leaf was not in contact when loaded. When I went over a bump/pothole/etc, it would load the overload leaf and spring the back end up, sort of like a pogo stick. That's how I got to 18psi, took me about 5 trips to dial it in. Enjoy! Chris

Also, tires are not as easy to compare as they used to be. E vs. D, psi, etc, load rating is what you want to look at. E's can be rated from 65psi to 80. Your current tires are rated high load (3195)than what came on the truck stock if you had 245's, which most, if not all did back then, which was 3042lbs. How much psi really doesn't matter any more. But I would feel more confident riding with a 3195 E rated vs. a 3195 D rated, pretty much all mental though.


Your setup has to be either fully off the overload spring or fully loading the overload spring or your will get the pogo action Chris describes.... Torklift makes a device called "Stable Load" that allows customization of the contact point for the overload leaf.

Did lowering the pressure help?

too much air in the bags invokes the porpoise effect. I have found in my tow behind that 30-40 lbs is good.

every setup is different, and just like the brake controller, you should take it out for a jaunt just to get the airbags dialed in to personal preference

Good luck bruce. hope to see you at dumont someday

too much air in the bags invokes the porpoise effect. I have found in my tow behind that 30-40 lbs is good.

every setup is different, and just like the brake controller, you should take it out for a jaunt just to get the airbags dialed in to personal preference

Good luck bruce. hope to see you at dumont someday


On my way home yesterday I went as low as 50 psi. I have another trip in 2 weeks back to the same camp ground. I will 25-30 psi and see if it helps.

i was lucky enough to have a fellow co-worker have a firestone compressor laying around. he gave it and a gauge to me, which I plumped into the truck, and to the bags. instant pressure change on the fly kicks ass!

Your setup has to be either fully off the overload spring or fully loading the overload spring or your will get the pogo action Chris describes.... Torklift makes a device called "Stable Load" that allows customization of the contact point for the overload leaf.

Did lowering the pressure help?

I never thought of it that way, getting the space between the overload to reduce bounce that is; but that is the way I always did it with the 06' because that was the point that it got the truck back to unloaded height and also leveled the trailer. That took a pressure of more than 70psi, varying dependant on loading, how much water is in the fresh tank which is behind the axles makes a good bit of differance on hitch weight. In any case we never had a problem with bounce unless you hit a really undulating section of road. I think the quality of shocks, springs and dampening equalizers on the trailer itself also play a substantial roll in how well the rig as a unit performs. I also always opt for heavier springs and axles than what is standard on the trailer; good investment for all of the benefits they provide.

Glad to hear you had a good trip.
Now the fine tuning.

Bilistein shocks are not bad for lighter loads, but now without the T/T equalizer hitch to soak up the chucking motion, one ton rated shocks, Bilisteins or otherwise, maybe in order.

And before or after new shocks, I would sure play with the air in the bags. Also might play with the placement of the weight in the trailer if you can. I like to run with a heavier pin weight if possible and add a bit of air to the bags. Put the beer in the front basement area, not in the back of the trailer. Otherwise let a bit of air out of the air bags. I find loaded for a 4 month trip is different than week-end warrior trips (lighter trailer).

Also, I'm not sure what it would take to move the 5th wheel forward a bit. This will squat the truck horizontally rather than pound the rear end down/front end up causing you to feel the chucking motion more. Safety wise it will lead the trailer around corners rather than push the trailer out then back into the corner, T/T style.


But I think you will soon understand the motion of a 5th wheel, and how it doesn't play around in the cross winds, & etc.

What's really funny is I took the trailer out after I got it home from the dealership and it rode fine but it was empty and it was before I installed the air bags. Maybe I dont need the air bags after all. This next trip I will start out with 25psi in the bags and go from there. I will be taking the same route as last time so it will be a goood comparison. Again guys, thanks for the help so far!:)

UPDATE....



I just returned from my trip to Utah and the ride was excellent! I took off the 315/75/16s and replaced them with 295s and I added a little more pin weight using two 94lb AGM batteries up in the front basement. I also aired the bags to 20psi and it rides 10x better.

Glad to hear that you get it nailed.:D:D:D:D.
Happy Camping.

Glad to hear that you get it nailed.:D:D:D:D.
Happy Camping.





Thank you sir!

Glad you also had a good trip. Having a trailer pushing and pulling you around, can make for an uneasy trip. It took me a while to find the right psi in my air bags. When I am only pulling the 5th I have the bags at one psi. When I am towing the 5th and the boat I have another psi.

Hello Glad to see that you worked out the problems.

you said you went to 295s are they load range E or D just curious

Chris

Hello Glad to see that you worked out the problems.

you said you went to 295s are they load range E or D just curious

Chris


I went from 315s D rated to 295s D rated as well. The 295s have 200lbs each more capacity then the 315s.


315= 3195
295= 3415

It made a huge difference going to a smaller sidewall. My gearing is off a little as I'm at 2100 rpm at 65-66mph but the truck still gets 12mpg towing my rig so no complaints.