Being a newbie, and hopefully a new max owner this year,my question is why buy a 06 lly with LBZ right around the corner? Seems to be alot of tension over the LLY motor issues, so I am wondering what I am missing.

I am also going to be in the market for an 06 shortly and have been weighing this question as well. It appears that GM has attempted to address the LLY overheating issues on the 06. While the LBZ appears to have some nice numbers it is still an unknown new design. Who is to say it will not have its own problems. Mileage is also an unknown on the LBZ. My guess is it can only be on par or worse than the LLY.

Definately a tough decision on the motor. THen you have to ask yourself why the hell am I buying an 06 when the 07 is going to be a re-design. Again something new and unproven. Decision.....decisions......decisions

folks that don't frequent this site or know the difference will buy the 06 LLY with no regrets. Those of us that know about the LBZ will of course wait for it, but also remember that the electronic power adders will be a bit longer for the LBZ because none of the LLY stuff will work on it. The engines are the same just has different programming and different computer. True most of the LLY issues are addressed in the LBZ package which is nice.

There will always be an update, or a better this or a better that. I am in the same boat, but im thinking I might jsut get the early 06' lly. GM has for sure addressed the overheat issue, added a gear in the tranny, giving you a manual shift option on the column. Plus, the newer engine is going to have even MORE emmission crap on it. It my contention that he lly is better than the LBZ, yeah the LBZ may have more TQ/ HP, but hell I dont need what the lly currently puts out,a nd plus if youreally want/need more then buy a chip.

I want a diesel for the MPG, and for the pulling power.

:rant:
trout

The redesigned 2500HD/3500 from GM is rumored to be the 2008 model year,
and should be available in summer 2007. That is two years away. There will be some
more changes to the 2007 model year, I am sure. '06 lly only has $850 power package
discount. Duramax used to have $1000 power package discount. '06 lly has a $2000
rebate until 9/6/05. LBZ will likely have no rebate for a while, probably until after the
new year.

I can't predict future prices, but the '06 lly could be $2850 cheaper than the
'06.5 lbz. That's why I chose the lly now, rather than wait.

-Stuart

folks that don't frequent this site or know the difference will buy the 06 LLY with no regrets. Those of us that know about the LBZ will of course wait for it, but also remember that the electronic power adders will be a bit longer for the LBZ because none of the LLY stuff will work on it. The engines are the same just has different programming and different computer. True most of the LLY issues are addressed in the LBZ package which is nice.Did you read the write up for the new LBZ? Heck of a lot more changes then just a new computer. The block was slightly changed, heads changed, new injectors, I would think it has a new injector pump but I don't know, different pistons for lower compression, new glow plugs with what sounds like independent controlers, heavier duty main bearings, stronger connecting rods and the list goes on.

Looks like March or April "may" be a good time to buy.

Hello, first post here. I have a 2006 GMC on order and I was wondering if anyone knows for sure that the 2006 LLY doesn't have the new ECM and that the current LLY power adders will also work on the 06 LLY? In the press release (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=16955) it isn't clear when they are talking about the changes for 06 if they are only talking about the LBZ or it they are including the 06 LLY as well. In the table at the bottom of the page where they list the specs they have "2006 Duramax 6600 Specifications (LLY, LBZ)" at the top and for compression ratio they only list the lower 16.8 ratio. Is this just a misprint/oversight or is it true? :confused:

On Chevrolet's website they say the new LBZ will be offered after September of 2005.

The 06 LLY that I am looking at has a completly different looking engine than my 2004.5 LLY had. Very quiet runs much better, I am thinking that it is just like the LBZ is. Whats up with this?

The 06 LLY that I am looking at has a completly different looking engine than my 2004.5 LLY had. Very quiet runs much better, I am thinking that it is just like the LBZ is. Whats up with this? Thats weird, maybe GM is mixing a couple of LBZ engines into the crowd now just to get an idea if whether or not they will give major trouble before they start mass producing these things?

I don't think so.
I will be looking at the LBZ more timing than anything else.

Current power adders do not look like they are going to work on the 06 LLY. It has a new PCM that is made by Bosch instead of Delphi, new injectors that are partially controlled by the Glow Plug Control Module, and a different data line than the older LLY...Hello, first post here. I have a 2006 GMC on order and I was wondering if anyone knows for sure that the 2006 LLY doesn't have the new ECM and that the current LLY power adders will also work on the 06 LLY? In the press release (http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gmnews/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=74&docid=16955) it isn't clear when they are talking about the changes for 06 if they are only talking about the LBZ or it they are including the 06 LLY as well. In the table at the bottom of the page where they list the specs they have "2006 Duramax 6600 Specifications (LLY, LBZ)" at the top and for compression ratio they only list the lower 16.8 ratio. Is this just a misprint/oversight or is it true? :confused:

For the new people, you also need to know that ones with problems with the LLY and LB7 are I believe in the minority of dmax's on the road. I have an 01 LB7 and 04.5 LLY, and have had none of overheating or injector problems with mine. My LB7 has over 260,000 on it with no problem to speak of, my LLY is in the 28K range with only the 900 to 1300 rpm surge issue to speak of.

If I could boil it down like silveradoHD indicated ($2800 more for 6.5) it would help. Evereyone wants to know what am I buying and for how much. I think this half yr model thing really sucks. Same discussions will occur in July, 06 for 07 model yr. Window dressing or smoke screen, you pick. Sorry to spin off. I have no problem paying for a better truck, but not sure if change is in right direction at what price. I think the LB's are the only ones happy.

snowsdog

Get your checkbook ready.. Both of my lb7 engines were fine, till 225k, then both required injectors..

Current power adders do not look like they are going to work on the 06 LLY. It has a new PCM that is made by Bosch instead of Delphi, new injectors that are partially controlled by the Glow Plug Control Module, and a different data line than the older LLY...

Thanks Max, that's what I thought.

there are a few more changes other than programing. like stronger rods, differant heads for lower compression. also stronger mains. check out the**********.com

Did you read the write up for the new LBZ? Heck of a lot more changes then just a new computer. The block was slightly changed, heads changed, new injectors, I would think it has a new injector pump but I don't know, different pistons for lower compression, new glow plugs with what sounds like independent controlers, heavier duty main bearings, stronger connecting rods and the list goes on.
From what I read on the chevy site, the compression/bore/stroke is identical to the LLY. They do make a mention of the different rods, but It looks to be a computer bump, fuel pump, oil pump and higher flow water pump.

There was never an issue with the rods or pistons in the motors we have now...big deal they "upgraded". WE all know the lb7 and lly can handle tons more power when added. Just wait when 5th and 6th gears slip and you need a "LEVEL 8,9 or 10" to handle the added power. Everyone ( including me ) thought the lly motor was going to be awesome....hindsight is 20/20! I love my lly, just wish it lasted longer in production....

I guess.......... I was..... Um...... Slightly incorrect. here's the deck sheet on the new motor.
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayS...74&docid=16955

In my defense though, read the chevy site that shows the engine specs. I should know better than to trust that.

For the new people, you also need to know that ones with problems with the LLY and LB7 are I believe in the minority of dmax's on the road. I have an 01 LB7 and 04.5 LLY, and have had none of overheating or injector problems with mine. My LB7 has over 260,000 on it with no problem to speak of, my LLY is in the 28K range with only the 900 to 1300 rpm surge issue to speak of.The polls on this site show 25% or more with injector problems consistent for LB7s and about the same for LLYs. considering the relatively low mileage on most trucks, I don't think think this is a smal number, although technically, you could say it's a minority. There aren't many examples of trucks going over 100,000 miles without needing them.

The polls on this site show 25% or more with injector problems consistent for LB7s and about the same for LLYs. considering the relatively low mileage on most trucks, I don't think think this is a smal number, although technically, you could say it's a minority. There aren't many examples of trucks going over 100,000 miles without needing them.

But how many folks found sites like this just to try to fix the problem? If there's nothing wrong with a truck, someone's a lot less likely to go hunting for information and find a website like this. In my personal experience, I know thirteen people with LB7s and only one of them has had even minor problems. I only know two with LLYs, but neither one of them has ever had these problems. When you take unscientific polls, the results don't really stay constant.

Every Engine has its problems some show their face and some dont show their face.

But how many folks found sites like this just to try to fix the problem? If there's nothing wrong with a truck, someone's a lot less likely to go hunting for information and find a website like this.
Exactly. Same for any vehicle. I just came out of a Tundra, and if you only looked at the Tundra forums, they STILL haven't fixed the brake issues that plagued the '00-'02 models... except I traded my '03 with 125k on it and never had a single problem other than a dead battery at 24 months.
Tundra owners that I talk to on the street... never met one with any braking issues. On the forums, it's close to 50% among the owners of the pre-'03 models.

Now you guys have me worried about my '06 LLY.
As far as overheating, it seems okay... did a run yesterday through the Grapevine on I-5, both directions. Trans and engine temps never went above center scale. Ambient temp was 95-100, brand new (tight) engine, running empty except maybe 100 pounds of tools.

snowsdog

Get your checkbook ready.. Both of my lb7 engines were fine, till 225k, then both required injectors..


I'll keep my fingers crossed, as I hear they are a bear to replace and pretty pricey as well.

The polls on this site show 25% or more with injector problems consistent for LB7s and about the same for LLYs. considering the relatively low mileage on most trucks, I don't think think this is a smal number, although technically, you could say it's a minority. There aren't many examples of trucks going over 100,000 miles without needing them.

That was my point, aporx 24,000 members on this site ( I am sure I will be corrected if I am not that accurate) you say 25% of members have problems. 24k is a small percentage of the trucks on the road. Then again maybe I am lucky, as I dont have any aftermarket equipment on my trucks and I follow the maint. sched in the manual.

I am not down playing the problems many on this site are having with the different issues, just that the odds are in your favor when buying one.

well my lly has 104k miles on it and still pumping on everything original, except, tires, shock, filters and the high pressure line for the power steering pump. I have upgrades as well. I follow the maintenance according to the manual. my injector balancing is really good, compared to some of my friends trucks and my cousin's truck. unlike them, i use stanadyne or an additive every tank ful. i had one instance of bad fuel, forgot to put stanadyne in and once i added the stanadyne, it went away. I had to change the filter as well but no worries.

i monitor my injectors once a month. just to see what if i can notice anything. a couple of my friends have had injectors get up there, but they were using bad fuel, pumped unleaded in by accident or just never ran an additive. 2 of them put in the lucas additive and after that, their injectors jumped close to the failing level.

One that pumped the tankful of unleaded in, got his truck back and then it started acting funny. Came up the with the dreadful P1093 code.

I think some of it has to do with, where you get fuel, when you get fuel, additives or none, filter change outs, environmental driving conditions and the manufacturing process of the vehicle. I would never recommend filling up at a station that has either just been or being fueled by a fuel truck or in an area where flooding may have occured or where there isn't a high turn over of fueling custoers coming through.

On a forum such as this, you will get what people are complaining about, thrilled about and or just curious. Mostly complaints though. This is a very informative forum but to say 24% of them are bad, that is a little harsh, imho. I wouldn't buy any other truck from anyone else as I have been lucky with the GM products.

Every new motor or product will have some issues. Especially with a rush to market things. Some people on this site put their vehicles through some extremes. Others not as extreme and some with no extremities.

Either way, I say if you invested all the money you did in order to buy the truck and/or any product enhancers, you should take care of it, imho. I will wait for the 06.5 and pass this 04.5 down to either my dad or my employees.

With my lly having a build date of 01/04, I find myself lucky to have all parts in god operating condition for the 104k miles that I have been driving it. I am one that runs the truck hard and at high speeds. I drive highway, major cities and off road in dusty and swampy conditions. I will be running 10k lbs generators around this weekend in FL for the hurricane. I know it will hold up nicely.

As for injector balancing, i have 2 injectors around the +1.9 to -1.9 range and the rest around the +.94 to -.92 range. For having 104k miles on them that is great. The threshold for them is +4 to -4, according to GM, in neutral with parking brake on.

One of my buddies had his in due to the injectors being close to the threshold. The reflashed the truck but then had to replace the computer. he didn't go to a good dealership and they fried the computer. They replaced it and tried to blame it on the banks he just installed but that is unlikely as banks doesn't flash the computer. I know they tried to reflash his truck and did it then. But after that he now has it at another dealer with the 1093 code. These are small town dealerships and I wouldn't let them work on my truck's engine. Maybe some of the other stuff but not diesels. There are good techs on here and out there as well. But you need to find them.

Good luck with your trucks.

folks that don't frequent this site or know the difference will buy the 06 LLY with no regrets. Those of us that know about the LBZ will of course wait for it, but also remember that the electronic power adders will be a bit longer for the LBZ because none of the LLY stuff will work on it. The engines are the same just has different programming and different computer. True most of the LLY issues are addressed in the LBZ package which is nice.

I've been waiting for the LBZ engine to be available before I ordered mine. I talked to my Salesman and he showed a directive that stated that after August 15, LLY engine was not available for retail orders and the orders must to be manually updated to show the LBZ engine. As always, something new means a bigger price eh. The price for LBZ is about $500 Cdn more than the LLY. :eek: Well I didn't see any sense in waiting any longer so I ordered it. Now starts the real waiting game. Will it be 8, 10, 13, or 17 weeks before it arrives?

Since many of you already have the current dmax engines, let me ask if any of you have run biodiesel or straight vegetable oil in your trucks? That seems to be the only saving grace with the ever increasing price of fuel, but I don't want a truck, no matter how powerful, if I can't run it on fuel that costs me much less than the prices we're seeing right now

My LB7 has had injectors replaced, head gaskets replaced and now the heads are being replaced.

I would nevery buy an early 06 since it is not quite an LBZ nor is it an LLY. If you ever want to put a chip on your truck you shouldn't go with an 06 until GM settles down on this change cycle.

I will wait until 08 or 09 to get a new one - whenever there is a stable engine with a good aftermarket product selection for at least two years in a row. LB7s are on 4-5 model years. That seems to be the right production cycle. LLYs only out for 12-18 months (assuming the early 06s are not really LLYs since the LLY chips wont work with them). I don't know how long the LBZs will last but the chip makers and other performance modders must be in a tizzy with all this change.

Since many of you already have the current dmax engines, let me ask if any of you have run biodiesel or straight vegetable oil in your trucks? That seems to be the only saving grace with the ever increasing price of fuel, but I don't want a truck, no matter how powerful, if I can't run it on fuel that costs me much less than the prices we're seeing right now

I am curious about this also, my guess is not many if any have. I am very leary about putting it in my $40K truck. I live in Cal and diesel is $3.52-:t I don't think it will ever be under $3.00 again, this is just rediculous. I have been researching a little because I would like to make some home brew.But I have not yet figured out the initial cost of setup, supplies, and equipment. I visited a biodiesel board and a guy ran his 96 cummins of it. He said his mileage dropped a little from from switching from regular diesel. And I think you have to change the fuel filter more often. I just think it would be cool to say you make your own fuel.I'm just not sure what the actual savings would be. Anyway some of these guys make alot of fuel. Here is the link to the site it has it's own forum http://www.biodieselnow.com/ Also try this one http://biodieselcommunity.org/

The "old" LLY isnt going anywhere...its still being used in the ZF-6 manual tranny trucks and it is used in the 2006 Express/Savanna vans...and dont forget the medium duty TopKick's and Kodiak's...they still use the "old" LLY.

--Ben