Since I see a picture of an LLY setup with a deep one on a stock truck....


What's the pro (or con) for going with the deep allison pan over just adding the amount of oil?


Please post a link if this has been discussed in depth before. A quick search didn't illude to a post.





thanks


cmc

Deep pan gives you 2 extra QTS. of fluid circulating in the tranny and cooler. More capacity should keep things a little cooler when towing.


Drawback is pan sits just a tad lower, but still above the skid pad. Just hanging lower might mean something is more likely to hit it, but probably would also hit the stock pan as well. I think it's an inch and a half lower, but been a while. Mine has been on just about 2 years.


Some would argue that when the tranny temp is at 200 all the fluid is at 200 and that's true, but if you are towing up a hill and the tranny temp is climbing, I believe the tranny temp will always be lower with the 2 extra QTS. than it would be without the 2 extra Qts.


If it's 200 with the deep pan, it's likely to be 210 or 220 with the stock pan due 2 QTS. less capacity.


I suppose someone could argue this, but I just use the simple formula "mo is beter".


If you are doing a lot of off roading with high center stuff, you might want to think about it for a while otherwise for the towing asphalt queens, it's great to have the deep pan option. I believe the deep pan was put in play for those motor homes using the allison and the high temps they generate climbing over the "continental divide".


Like all good car guys someone figured out "hey this will fit my truck" and a new "option" was created.


Besides it's real cheap way to add 2 QTS. capacity to the Ally.


Interesting if you say it's standard on the new LLY. Must be due to increased HP and beefed up tranny if you can call it that. Nice to see anyway and if GM did it standard then it must be needed as they don't waste any money building these puppies.


Good Luck





Edited by: Chevysrus

I would agree with you in that more fluid and more surface area (larger pan) would dissipate more heat. I only pull a 9000lb 5th wheel and my temp rarely sees 200* unless I'm not in Tow/Haul mode. Larger pan and extra fluid may be unneccessary if not pulling big loads all the time. However, it is hard to argue with " mo' is better"......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


JP

What's the pro (or con) for going with the deep allison pan over just adding the amount of oil?


cmc





Do not (I repeat DO NOT)ever over fill an automatic transmission! two additional quarts will most deffinatly distroy the tranny pretty quickly.

Hmmm, didn't know about the deep pan perhaps being standard on the '04s. This is surprising since on the '04s Allison made some changes in the fluid flow (putting more of it through the transmission cooler) to provide some additional cooling as well.


Hmmmm, again http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

Honestly when i put my deep pan on i couldn't tell any difference in temps...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif

Honestly when i put my deep pan on i couldn't tell any difference in temps...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Thanks for the candid input. Also, I've heard that tow/haul will reduce operating temps. On my recent 3600mile tow ~ couldn't see a difference w/tow/haul engaged. Admittedly, its winter, right? and my tow was a meager 4,000#'s but there wasn't even a hint. Anyone have comments?Edited by: ShumDit

Have found that running in tow/haul while towing in summer, city traffic helps keep both engine and transmissions temperatures down. Have found no difference under same conditions during the winter. I considered a deep pan but simply can't see how adding a couple of quarts of fluid could have much impact on transmission temperatures. Can see how it would take a little longer to warm up and cool down but that is about it. If the deep pan had special cooling fins (which I don't believe it does) I could see a possible difference there.


Jim

Have found that running in tow/haul while towing in summer, city traffic helps keep both engine and transmissions temperatures down. Have found no difference under same conditions during the winter. I considered a deep pan but simply can't see how adding a couple of quarts of fluid could have much impact on transmission temperatures. Can see how it would take a little longer to warm up and cool down but that is about it. If the deep pan had special cooling fins (which I don't believe it does) I could see a possible difference there.


Jim

It's simple physics. More fluid volume takes longer to heat up. More fluid volume will maintain it's properties for a longer time. The larger pan has more "wetted" area to dissipate heat.

The best part is the pan itself only costs $46. That's what made the decision for me. Plus I was bored.

Also back in the early days many of us were more concerned about the Allison's durability and had no clue there were fuel/injector issues down the road.

Edited by: hoot

i'm with hoot...i add all sorts of potentially useless (neat) things to my truckhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif...

Funny thing.


I just got done helping Jerry at Mag-Hytec do some final measuring on his new Ally pan. (should be ready to ship tomorrow). We also measured the deep factory Ally pan and noticed that it does not hold filter the way i like. It can cock under G force and pull out of the case enough to worry me. The weight of the fluid sitting on top of the filter should push down on back of filter and push suction tube back up into case. Does this work ok? I don't know. Can the filter wiggle its way out of case in the factory deep pan. I don't know. It scares me enough to where i would not use the deep Ally pan. The Mag-Hytec and PML pans won't let this happen. Now it make me wonder about the shalow pan.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


mike

Mike L, as if I wasn't confused enough on this subject...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif





And thanks for the input guys.


Since I don't tow big stuff to much I'm going to stick with the stock pan. I was only worried about the heat pulling in Arizona. And wondering what all the tech stuff was about. I haven't had any temp issues pulling so we'll follow the motto "if it ain't broke - don't fix it" on this one.


cmc

I have noticed on my truck that the trans temp gauge moves up quite a bit in stop and go driving. How about you guys?

Noticed the same with mine. On a real warm SoCal day in the Summer, it goes to around 200. Most noticeable when mixing in a few of the foothills we have around here.


Also noticed the tranny fluid heats up fairly quick and but takes a long time to come back down in temp.Edited by: OC_DMAX

Well we didn't have a choice on the Mag-Hytec as it did not exist back then, figured if the deep pan was good enough to keep those big A#$ motor homes cooler (tranny that is) then it had to help my little old Ally "run silent and run deep" LOL. Besides for the little cost to improve the tranny capacity what the hay! Probably the best thing I could do dollar for dollar.


Now here comes GM along and makes the deep pan standard on the LLY (not confirmed yet). Now why would GM do something like that? Not your typical GM action so we hear. I suppose they left it 2 qts light so the dealer could top it up LOL ha ha ha.


The fact they thought about it and did it (hopefully) seems to put me and everyone else who went to the deep pan, ahead of the curve since I did it almost 2 years ago.


Hard to compare exactly, but if you have the stock pan and I have the deep pan and we are sitting at a light in Phoenix in 110 degree heat and all things are equal, I am willing to bet my temp gauge is reading a little less than yours!


But to each his own and so be it.


Most put 10 qts in the oil pan because the book says so, but my dipstick doesn't read full until I put in 11 qts. Put in 10 every time and the last little "bar" on the stick is not wet. Add 1 more QT and the bar is wet up to the end of the last mark. Been through this many times and that's just the way my truck is. Full is full in my book and not "down a notch, but it's OK".


Happy Motoring!

I think a second cooler would do more than a deep pan. I am not sold on the stack plate design of todays coolers. they clog too easy, heat up too fast. Both would be the ultimate

I think an extra two quarts is significant and worth the few bucks to do the mod.

hoot


i have reservations about the deep pan thing. I don't think the fluid in the bottom of the deep pan does squat. I have been lectured by Steve Cole and Transgo about the good it does. i don't think that the fluid in the bottom of the deep pan ever gets picked up and circulated. Now, people will say that that extra fluid helps cool the trans even if it is not circulated. i don't agree. I will put a pan on my truck for show. Some one is going to have to really show me some proof that it works. Keep in mind i could be wrong guys.

It's my belief the Deep pan is an Allison severe duty Transynd extended drain interval thang ..... Your adding 15% overall fluid capacity ....
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

There's a new Sheriff in town ,Mac Edited by: Mackin

I thought by changing to the longer internal filter (when switching to the deep pan), it would still pick up fluid from the bottom of the pan..isn't that why we had to change the internal filter to the longer one?? My Allison runs about 20-25 degrees cooler when towing. Empty I haven't seen to much of a difference.


Bob

hoot


i have reservations about the deep pan thing. I don't think the fluid in the bottom of the deep pan does squat. I have been lectured by Steve Cole and Transgo about the good it does. i don't think that the fluid in the bottom of the deep pan ever gets picked up and circulated. Now, people will say that that extra fluid helps cool the trans even if it is not circulated. i don't agree. I will put a pan on my truck for show. Some one is going to have to really show me some proof that it works. Keep in mind i could be wrong guys.
Are you kidding me?

When you do the swap you install the longer pickup filter. How can you say it doesn't get circulated? Where does the fluid come from that circulates through the tranny? What about what happens when you are driving? Shakes it all up... Even if you reused the shorter pickup filter and found a way to support it on the bottom, you still would circulate all the fluid just as much. That's because the full level is still at the same height below the valve body. The dip stick comes down from above. It fills from the bottom... up to the dipstick level, just takes more to get there. The suction tube is still just as submerged. With the longer suction tube it's even more submerged than the stock one.

Take a 55 gallon barrel and fill it with water. Put a pump on top and only pump off the first 1" of water and pump it back into the drum. I will guarantee you all 55 gallons will get circulated through the pump in no time. Now put that setup in the bed of your pickup and drive around... no pump... it's still mix itself.

What about these guys (professionals) that put large capacity oil pans on their engines? Dumb? For show?





http://www.cantonracingproducts.com/pans/drag/13104.jpg

Read this (http://www.gilmarine.com/products/oilpans/)
"Reduce oil operating temperatures and engine failures by increasing oil capacity. Get longer oil life and extend the life of all lubricated components."

Actually I can't believe I'm typing this.

Now go back to engineering and start with a dry transmission before the sump and fluid capacity is specified. What determines how much fluid the transmission should hold in excess of it's working capacity (hyd system total volume)?

Which transmission would have longer lasting ATF? One with a one quart sump or one with a five quart sump? Which one will handle abuse better?

Don't get me wrong, a bigger cooler might help too but there is no doubt in my mind using a larger quantity of oil/cooling increases fluid life and transmission life.

BTW: My trans almost always is on the cool side, even on hot summer days. When my truck is at operating temp on a cold morning, my trans is barely starting to warm up, so my gauge says.

Can you imagine GM changing to a larger pan and adding more fluid for no reason?
Edited by: hoot

Hoot


I have installed a lot of deep pans and seen some transmissions burn up even with the extra fluid (i still dont believe a couple of extra quarts means very much). I solved the problems with a better cooler, and better fluid. The trans fluid is at its hottest point coming out of the torque converter and it goes into the cooler from there. If the cooler did not do its job you have red hot fluid being dumped back into the trans. The extra couple of quarts and aluminum pan might help a little but its not the answer. Bigger cooler, better fluid will. If you hooked up two good trans coolers in parallel(not series) that would be the most beneficial of all. You can read all you want but i know what it takes to keep a 35 passenger bus fully loaded, lugging around the California hills cool.


mike

I agree. No doubt it won't be the cure all but it does add pure volume.

hi! whats the gm part # for the ally deep pan and the part# for the filter to go with it? thankshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

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