Looks like it could be as early as 2 weeks from now. H&S is wrapping up tuning and will have the Mini & Black Maxx ready initially with the XRT Pro following soon thereafter. The tuners will have 4 settings, the top offering being in the 130-150+ HP range. Stay tuned for more info......

Did you talk to Bentley?

Yes, Bentley and Casey.

Cool I was just going to call them this week but now I know

Best news I've heard all week!:)

Nice.

Will these tuners have DPF/Urea delete??

^^^Yup....

what brand of exhaust does H&S offer on their website?....Is it their own?

I called yesterday and they told me its a month away.

I don't know how much longer I can wait! :help2:

I am very interested to see what the LML is really capable of!

what brand of exhaust does H&S offer on their website?....Is it their own?

They use flow pro kits iirc but from what I saw exhuast hook up the same so kits from Lmm truck's will work

I don't know how much longer I can wait! :help2:

Me too dude. I will be one of the first on the list to test to get rid of this emissions stuff. It's an engineering feat, what they can do about cleaner emissions, but I prefer to roll coal :ro)

AMEN!! I too will be near first in line to get one of these bad boys!! I can't wait to get rid of all over the gov't crap and make some power, (and get better mileage too!) :)

with the ability to have timing optimized already because of the urea, will there be that much gain in milage? I think the only gain will be from no regen of the dpf, and if that uses @ 1 gal of fuel every 500 miles, you will only be gaining .5mgp at best if my calculations are correct (assuming average milage of 16 currently).

Do the deletes and tuning for the fun factor but I do not see it ever being justified in fuel savings.

with the ability to have timing optimized already because of the urea, will there be that much gain in milage? I think the only gain will be from no regen of the dpf, and if that uses @ 1 gal of fuel every 500 miles, you will only be gaining .5mgp at best if my calculations are correct (assuming average milage of 16 currently).

Do the deletes and tuning for the fun factor but I do not see it ever being justified in fuel savings.

The fun factor is my main reason. 16 mpg was the best I ever got on my deleted LMM and I already get that out of my LML. I think it will do better than .5 mpg, but it all depends on much lead you have in your foot.

I really want them to put a video up with the flo-pro kit on, I'm very anxious to hear how it sounds!

with the ability to have timing optimized already because of the urea, will there be that much gain in milage? I think the only gain will be from no regen of the dpf, and if that uses @ 1 gal of fuel every 500 miles, you will only be gaining .5mgp at best if my calculations are correct (assuming average milage of 16 currently).

Do the deletes and tuning for the fun factor but I do not see it ever being justified in fuel savings.

Just an FYI, a regen uses A LOT less than 1 gal......like around 0.2 gallons.

with the ability to have timing optimized already because of the urea, will there be that much gain in milage? I think the only gain will be from no regen of the dpf, and if that uses @ 1 gal of fuel every 500 miles, you will only be gaining .5mgp at best if my calculations are correct (assuming average milage of 16 currently).

Do the deletes and tuning for the fun factor but I do not see it ever being justified in fuel savings.


You're right for starters, however you are forgetting that those filters (and catalytic converters) are VERY restrictive to exhaust flow. Getting those filters out of there will be like running a second exhaust! The fuel you save due to lack of regen will be lost in the true gain you see the rest of the time! My money is on 2.5-3 mpg overall gain! Right now my truck is 13.8-14.2 city and 16.5-17.5 highway (though nothing is flat up here in upstate ny) I'd like to see 16/20 after the tuner! (you know, what some of the forum is currently getting while towing their 5er!) LOL:rolleyes:

besides, the truck will be a BLAST to drive, more so than it already is!

Just an FYI, a regen uses A LOT less than 1 gal......like around 0.2 gallons.

Where did you find that information?
A little simple math would seem to prove that the source is incorrect.
I think most folks would agree that during regen they are seeing around a 4mpg drop in mileage, thats per the display but I have always found it to fairly accurate or at least close enough for the example. I also think that's a pretty conservative number.
So if you are able to maintain 60mph during the regen (non regen getting 16mpg), assuming that it takes the published 30 minutes to complete the regen you would have traveled 30 miles and used 2.5 gallons at 12mpg; 30/12=2.5.
At 16mpg you would have used 1.87 gallons; 30/16=1.87, so you have used an additional .37 gallons. If you can't run that fast the difference escalates, if you can run faster the difference declines.

Where did you find that information?
A little simple math would seem to prove that the source is incorrect.
I think most folks would agree that during regen they are seeing around a 4mpg drop in mileage, thats per the display but I have always found it to fairly accurate or at least close enough for the example. I also think that's a pretty conservative number.
So if you are able to maintain 60mph during the regen (non regen getting 16mpg), assuming that it takes the published 30 minutes to complete the regen you would have traveled 30 miles and used 2.5 gallons at 12mpg; 30/12=2.5.
At 16mpg you would have used 1.87 gallons; 30/16=1.87, so you have used an additional .37 gallons. If you can't run that fast the difference escalates, if you can run faster the difference declines.

Usually every time I reply to that previous question, I always say it is around 0.2-0.4 gallons per regen. I guess I just forgot the latter part!

Usually every time I reply to that previous question, I always say it is around 0.2-0.4 gallons per regen. I guess I just forgot the latter part!

I just thought I reinforced your point rather nicely.

All I said was "if" it uses 1 gal during regen--I do not have one of these trucks and I do not know how much they are actually using.

I have some friends who have deleted the emmissions from their cummins but didn't do any tuning, and they have not seen significant increases in economy--somewhere in the .5 to 1mpg range. To me, I do not think that the exhaust and emmission system is that restrictive that removal alone will give significant fuel savings.

I'm all for mods, but do I it for the fun factor (and yes, use the economy and hoped for savings are used as a reason why you must do it when talking with the significant other :hug:).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ierOTNXiJF4&feature=player_embedded

Anybody seen this yet?

wow!!!! just hope they get a tranny kit for the LML also soon.

Yeah...it looks like pretty good power....it doesn't hardly smoke at all either

I love it!

watch the other vid the 4min one when its tuned it lets out a pretty good puff. but looks so sweet

That was before when they first tuned it....They just put this video up today so it looks like they have fine tuned it quite a bit

ah gotcha!!!

That was before when they first tuned it....They just put this video up today so it looks like they have fine tuned it quite a bit


I believe that video is of their other LML,they have a lifted one an the stock apearing one in the video.

numbers look outstanding 1k+ ft/lbs!! Can't WAIT for the release date!! I'm in!

Wonder what the 11' trannys will hold for power???

Wonder what the 11' trannys will hold for power???

From what I have seen and read, I don't think they will last long in 5th as the C-3's appear to still only use 4 clutches just like all the others despite them upping the others to 6 now. And the pressure algorithym of the new trans could be a problem from what I have read. Mike L has quite a bit of test data on these as I believe he has already been playing around with his new 2011 he has.

Wow, I just caught the 500/1000 RWHP/RWTQ vid... VERY COOL!!!!!!!! I'm really looking forward to the official release and some more details from H&S. I'm also interested in the transmission question. I'd love to see 500/1000 but I also don't want to run into trans issues.

Anyway, great work H&S keep us posted on progress as you finalize you offerings. I'm really looking forward to it.

-TJ

PS- I wonder what that would put a CC 4x4 at in the 1/4? ;)

If H&S can turn off the DEF and other emissions, does anybody know when the egr delete and other emissions will be able to come off these things?

Does H&S have the emissions blocked on there trucks?

If so, can a person get a tune just to turn off DEF and other emissions without adding power.

It seems that these trucks are such an emissions nightmare. I would love to shut off emissions but keep power level stock.

Been there done that.

If H&S can turn off the DEF and other emissions, does anybody know when the egr delete and other emissions will be able to come off these things?

Does H&S have the emissions blocked on there trucks?

If so, can a person get a tune just to turn off DEF and other emissions without adding power.

It seems that these trucks are such an emissions nightmare. I would love to shut off emissions but keep power level stock.

Been there done that.

I agree 100% - this is what I am after.

I'm impressed, I really didn't think it would be that strong. The fact that they don't appear to be wasting a lot of fuel is a strong testiment to their expertise. Good show guys!

I will admit, seeing that newer 500/1000 vid on the dyno, I am impress to see the higher #'s will little to no smoke. That's impressive to me. I really didn't like the first vid just showing the smoking ability of the LML, but it was just a start. H&S has fine tuned things nicely. If I knew the Allison could hold up to those types of numbers, I'd seriously consider selling my LMM and getting a Denali LML. If I want to see 500/1000 in my LMM, I'm gonna have to spend $4-5K more to get there at this point. I think I'll wait to hear about other's experience and what the final verdict is on what the updated Allison can hold with confidence. Chris

If H&S can turn off the DEF and other emissions, does anybody know when the egr delete and other emissions will be able to come off these things?

Does H&S have the emissions blocked on there trucks?

If so, can a person get a tune just to turn off DEF and other emissions without adding power.

It seems that these trucks are such an emissions nightmare. I would love to shut off emissions but keep power level stock.

Been there done that.


As with all of our other products, we will have a stock horsepower tune available that runs no emissions. For the LML platform this will encompass the DPF / UREA / and EGR systems. The DPF must be removed from the truck, the Urea tank must be unplugged, and the EGR unplugged. You CAN remove both the Urea and EGR systems along with the DPF if you prefer, but is NOT necessary. Instructions will be provided with the H&S products to notify customers what must be done with the emissions sensors and actuators.

Right now the race power levels are looking to be released as:

Stock: 350whp
Mild: 400whp
Wild: 450whp
Hot: 500whp

Emissions present tunes will be slightly less power for each level.

These power levels will NOT be shift on the fly upon first release. We are still in the process of modifying the factory software to enable the use of a shiftable tune. As of right now the tuning takes about 10 minutes to change between power levels.

First release will NOT disable the speed limiter, and will NOT have adjustable tire size. These features will be added as updates as soon as the software is tested and ready for release.

Awesome!

It's getting close now. I will be first on the list. Hopefully I can get away with never having to put any DEF in:D

Wow I am impressed by the power numbers... I'll admit I doubted those numbers when I heard it awhile ago.... has any other duramax put down those kina numbers with a canned tuner? PPE??

Those are definitely some impressive numbers....both for H&S, and the truck itself. Other then the tuner and exhaust, the truck is all stock, correct??? No lift pump, tranny upgrades, etc???????

Sorry to go off topic but does H&S have a product for my 06? I havent been able to find anything.

Those are definitely some impressive numbers....both for H&S, and the truck itself. Other then the tuner and exhaust, the truck is all stock, correct??? No lift pump, tranny upgrades, etc???????

The truck is all stock minus a 5" downpipe back exahust and a tune. The factory air intake system seems to provide plenty of flow for the higher tunes, so long as the filter is clean. 3,xxx miles on the clock (99% of which are tuned). The trans is holding up so far, but will likely not last long at these power numbers. Time will tell the true tale. We would love to find some time to get into a little transmission module reprogramming and see some improvements done.

Sorry to go off topic but does H&S have a product for my 06? I havent been able to find anything.


We have yet to delve into the older models. We started with the LMM and have been busy with all the new emissions present trucks since then. We do plan on going back and working on the older ones, but it will be sometime before we get to it.

booo!!! i really like the looks of your product

The truck is all stock minus a 5" downpipe back exahust and a tune. The factory air intake system seems to provide plenty of flow for the higher tunes, so long as the filter is clean. 3,xxx miles on the clock (99% of which are tuned). The trans is holding up so far, but will likely not last long at these power numbers. Time will tell the true tale. We would love to find some time to get into a little transmission module reprogramming and see some improvements done.

Wow that's awesome. No fueling problems at 500/1000???

No smoke?????? Are you gonna have a tune that will smoke?

No smoke?????? Are you gonna have a tune that will smoke?

Why.....do you have a Cummins or something?????:rolleyes:

Can we see a video with startup and rev?

X2

Why.....do you have a Cummins or something?????:rolleyes:

x2.

I'm really glad there's not a lot of smoke. I live in Smog Nazi Kalifornia where you will get busted quickly for rolling smoke in late-model diesels. Yes, seriously.

I want a strong tune that blows pretty clean without all the smog BS in there. It looks like H&S has exactly what I want. I'm really looking forward to the final numbers, and more videos (I'd love to hear what it sounds like from the outside and in the cab as well). Some pics of the finished exhaust would be really great too.

Like everybody else I'm also curious to see what the trans will hold up to. I'd probably drive it day to day on Mild and probably tow at stock or Mild but would like to be able to use Wild and Hot once in a while at the strip (it'd be fun to tow my 'vette out even though it's a road race car and drag both it and the truck, lol).

-TJ

Tuner vs DEF problems ??? On 2011's the nationwide DEF problems are discouraging, as I have my 1st diesel, on order. Question will a " Tuner " Delete , Help , or Hurt this problem ???

Tuner vs DEF problems ??? On 2011's the nationwide DEF problems are discouraging, as I have my 1st diesel, on order. Question will a " Tuner " Delete , Help , or Hurt this problem ???

With our race tuning, we remove the DEF system from the truck. So unless there are some unforseen programming obstacles, there will be NO more issues with DEF as long as you are running our product. Beta testing is currently moving along nicely and we hope to release next week with a product.

With our race tuning, we remove the DEF system from the truck. So unless there are some unforseen programming obstacles, there will be NO more issues with DEF as long as you are running our product. Beta testing is currently moving along nicely and we hope to release next week with a product.

Are you physically removing the (ugly) tank, or just disabling? Or will that be the user's option?

-TJ

Are you physically removing the (ugly) tank, or just disabling? Or will that be the user's option?

-TJ


H&S posted earlier you have to at least unplug the DEF tank, removing it is owner's option, think on page 4 or beginning of 5. Chris

This is why I didn't want to install my Banks exhaust.

I want the full delete package exhaust and all. I'm ready to buy the day you release it especially if there is a package deal!
Price?

My dealer will be upset I did this, but I buy a car every year from them!

Wow!! I'm impressed!! 500hp and no smoke!! My credit card is out of my wallet H&S and saw zaw has new blade to cut off DPF!:)

X2.. What is the complete package price with exhaust?

X2.. What is the complete package price with exhaust?

I am interested as well

How about an introductory group buy...

:D

The truck is all stock minus a 5" downpipe back exahust and a tune. The factory air intake system seems to provide plenty of flow for the higher tunes, so long as the filter is clean. 3,xxx miles on the clock (99% of which are tuned). The trans is holding up so far, but will likely not last long at these power numbers. Time will tell the true tale. We would love to find some time to get into a little transmission module reprogramming and see some improvements done.

What are you seeing for rail pressure on the big tune?? I take it the CP4.2 actually does flow more volume then the CP3???

Are you guys really ready to lose your warranty?

The decision is not so much of losing the warranty as it is gaining mileage and reliability.

These engines are pretty much the same if you strip them down. So a 2011 LML stripped of it's emission BS is pretty much the same as my LB7 when it comes to engine specs.

If a person were to strip the engine down of just the emissions, what can cause problems?

If you do some reading about DPF and EGR junk, you'll see that these systems have been coming off the trucks since the LBZ and a majority have seen no problems what so ever.

If anything, it will make the engine run and breathe better. How can this be bad?

Also, if you read what H&S said, you have to unplug the system you don't have to remove it. So, if you had some warranty issues that you think are suspect, plug the crap back in, pull the tune and take to dealer.

The only issue would be the counter in the ECM and seeing if the dealers could read that you had a tune.

I myself am willing to lose the warranty just based on the fact that over the next 5 years I'll probably have my truck at the dealership every 3 months just to keep re-flashing the damn ECM for the DEF crap.

If you haven't experienced this yet, just wait. It is a real treat. Nothing worse then going to the people who designed and built this item and getting the deer in the headlight look when you have a problem.

To me, I'll buy there stuff and keep the power level stock. Back to having a real truck with no emissions crap to shut me down when I really need it. This truck had plenty of power already. NO need for the extra power, just extra reliability and finally great mileage.

Good luck!

Dont get me wrong im all for mods! Im just saying in today's age the dealer is looking for any reasons not to fix your truck even if your only improving it!!!

Even though these are proven engines things still go wrong is all im saying. On that note i just took a new LML wit ha 8" lift for a drive from my dealer! so nice. I want it bad.

Are you guys really ready to lose your warranty?

Dude, GM's warranty isn't worth a shit anyway. From past experience, it's always a fight to get them to fix shit that they are obligated to fix under warranty. I think that deleting all the emissions crap, getting better gas mileage and more power is well worth it. Oh and how did that LML drive with that lift on it? You gonna buy it?

The decision is not so much of losing the warranty as it is gaining mileage and reliability.

These engines are pretty much the same if you strip them down. So a 2011 LML stripped of it's emission BS is pretty much the same as my LB7 when it comes to engine specs.

If a person were to strip the engine down of just the emissions, what can cause problems?

If you do some reading about DPF and EGR junk, you'll see that these systems have been coming off the trucks since the LBZ and a majority have seen no problems what so ever.

If anything, it will make the engine run and breathe better. How can this be bad?

Also, if you read what H&S said, you have to unplug the system you don't have to remove it. So, if you had some warranty issues that you think are suspect, plug the crap back in, pull the tune and take to dealer.

The only issue would be the counter in the ECM and seeing if the dealers could read that you had a tune.

I myself am willing to lose the warranty just based on the fact that over the next 5 years I'll probably have my truck at the dealership every 3 months just to keep re-flashing the damn ECM for the DEF crap.

If you haven't experienced this yet, just wait. It is a real treat. Nothing worse then going to the people who designed and built this item and getting the deer in the headlight look when you have a problem.

To me, I'll buy there stuff and keep the power level stock. Back to having a real truck with no emissions crap to shut me down when I really need it. This truck had plenty of power already. NO need for the extra power, just extra reliability and finally great mileage.

Good luck!

Well said!

Well i had close to 9k in warranty work covered on my truck without a problem so i personally like keeping my warranty. But i totally understand where you guys are coming from. To be honest id even consider taking all the shit off.

The Truck drove awesome!!!!

just waiting for my buddy (sales manager) will do for me on the price etc.

The decision is not so much of losing the warranty as it is gaining mileage and reliability.

These engines are pretty much the same if you strip them down. So a 2011 LML stripped of it's emission BS is pretty much the same as my LB7 when it comes to engine specs.

If a person were to strip the engine down of just the emissions, what can cause problems?

If you do some reading about DPF and EGR junk, you'll see that these systems have been coming off the trucks since the LBZ and a majority have seen no problems what so ever.

If anything, it will make the engine run and breathe better. How can this be bad?

Also, if you read what H&S said, you have to unplug the system you don't have to remove it. So, if you had some warranty issues that you think are suspect, plug the crap back in, pull the tune and take to dealer.

The only issue would be the counter in the ECM and seeing if the dealers could read that you had a tune.

I myself am willing to lose the warranty just based on the fact that over the next 5 years I'll probably have my truck at the dealership every 3 months just to keep re-flashing the damn ECM for the DEF crap.

If you haven't experienced this yet, just wait. It is a real treat. Nothing worse then going to the people who designed and built this item and getting the deer in the headlight look when you have a problem.

To me, I'll buy there stuff and keep the power level stock. Back to having a real truck with no emissions crap to shut me down when I really need it. This truck had plenty of power already. NO need for the extra power, just extra reliability and finally great mileage.

Good luck!


Same for me! stock power level with all the emission crap gone! Oh, and the nice sound :D

How is a truck with an 8" lift kit have warranty on it?

I always thought the dealers were highly against these aftermarket upgrades.

How can the dealer squawk about a aftermarket air filter but not bitch about an 8" lift kit?

on my truck i have now they never had an issue period! now they lift there trucks so they do the work no questions asked. They even giving you a letter saying they will not void warrant because of the suspension mods they have done. Its all in the dealer i guess

I always wonder why someone who is worried about voiding their warranty would be looking in this particular forum in the first place?

Just sayin...:rolleyes:

i'm one of the first in line to "challange" my warranty. I too am not looking to boost power. I want that emission crap gone in a big way though. don't get me wrong, an extra 100 horse would be nice here and there, but mainly interested in dumping all the factory emission stuff. Then I can go back to picking on people with hybrid's. Right now we're almost as bad as they are! :D However I have to second the question about a preliminary group buy! I'm in!!

However I have to second the question about a preliminary group buy! I'm in!!

Good point! I'd be in too.

-TJ

Why do you guys want the emission off so Bad? Once you pull it your warranty is gone unless your gonna put it all back on everytime you go to the dealer. You guys pulling the emissions planning on building the tranny?? It sounds like even with the emissions on your gonna be able to toast the tranny.

I am keeping mine on, working on these new trucks is a PITA! That is basically why I got rid of mine now, it gets exhausting working on your DD/work truck all the time when you need it. I can't wait to have a problem with my new truck so I can take it to the dealer point at it and say... fix it.:)

Why do you guys want the emission off so Bad? Once you pull it your warranty is gone unless your gonna put it all back on everytime you go to the dealer. You guys pulling the emissions planning on building the tranny?? It sounds like even with the emissions on your gonna be able to toast the tranny.

I am keeping mine on, working on these new trucks is a PITA! That is basically why I got rid of mine now, it gets exhausting working on your DD/work truck all the time when you need it. I can't wait to have a problem with my new truck so I can take it to the dealer point at it and say... fix it.:)

Probably because we're crazy!?! Seriously though, you make very good points. And there's also something to be said for keeping our DDs clean. However, I'm just not a fan of dealing with the DEF, nor the idea of regen cycles super-heating my whole exhaust (nor the .5 gallons of diesel it wastes every time it happens).

-TJ

Probably because we're crazy!?! Seriously though, you make very good points. And there's also something to be said for keeping our DDs clean. However, I'm just not a fan of dealing with the DEF, nor the idea of regen cycles super-heating my whole exhaust (nor the .5 gallons of diesel it wastes every time it happens).

-TJ

I hear ya on the regen and the DEF.... It would be nice to have it gone... but to me it's just not worth it to lose a 100,000 mile warranty on your DD. If you were competing with it would be different. I know some don't care about warranty cuase they just want a fast DD and I do too, but I tried that and I just got frusterated with it. Some will prolly have better luck then me though. I pulled and raced mine all the time and that cuased most of the problems IMO.

Read the posts from above. H&S makes a program that just deletes the emissions and does nothing to the power. How can stock power with no emissions toast a tranny?

Read the other post, what are the chances that a truck with no emissions will have warranty issues. My 03' with no emissions has been flawless for 230,000 miles. With the emissions off, these engines are fundamentally the same. You must also read that H&S said you can leave the emissions on the truck, you just have to unplug.

If you want to keep your warranty and go to the dealer every three months, leave your truck there for two-three days for DEF issues, then go ahead. Sounds like you don't need a diesel truck then.

Unfortunately for me, I couldn't find a 2010 that had the items I needed so I was forced to get a 2011. So I have to risk the fact that I don't have warranty because GM couldn't get there head out there ass and build a truck that has reliable emissions on it.

You must also read that H&S said you can leave the emissions on the truck, you just have to unplug.

If you want to keep your warranty and go to the dealer every three months, leave your truck there for two-three days for DEF issues, then go ahead. Sounds like you don't need a diesel truck then.



You gonna have to pull the DPF cause if you unplug it then it will just fill with soot cause it will never regen with a chip turning if off. All the past years require a blocker plate for the EGR when turning it off as well.

I have been put into limp mode twice now because of the DEF issues and if it happen another time I will very quickly be inline for a delete. No DEF no software updates needed. Plus the DPF is a fire hazard for those of us that work on farms/ranches.

I believe that H&S has these items.

I could be wrong but I think they have those mods done to there shop truck.

Read the posts from above. H&S makes a program that just deletes the emissions and does nothing to the power. How can stock power with no emissions toast a tranny?
I think you need to read my post again... I said with emissions you can make enough power to toast your tranny... I was asking if everyone planned to build there tranny.... If there not you can't put down anymore power with the emissions off cuase you'll ruin the tranny anyway

Read the other post, what are the chances that a truck with no emissions will have warranty issues. My 03' with no emissions has been flawless for 230,000 miles. With the emissions off, these engines are fundamentally the same. You must also read that H&S said you can leave the emissions on the truck, you just have to unplug.
Beleive me you sart Fauckin with these emission and new ECM you'll have more electonic trouble then a stock truck and you won't be able to take it to the dealer to get it fixed.
If you want to keep your warranty and go to the dealer every three months, leave your truck there for two-three days for DEF issues, then go ahead. Sounds like you don't need a diesel truck then.
Don't give me that BS that you don't think I need a truck, That is exactly why I traded the truck I have now because it wasn't reliable...

Unfortunately for me, I couldn't find a 2010 that had the items I needed so I was forced to get a 2011. So I have to risk the fact that I don't have warranty because GM couldn't get there head out there ass and build a truck that has reliable emissions on it.

If you want to take the emissions off you truck great I don't care it is your $60,000 truck do what you want... I would love to aswell, I just don't want to lose the warranty cause these trucks have almost goten to the point where a normal human being can hardly work on them

To hell with the warranty, if you wanna keep the warranty you better drive it like Ms Daisy, because GM will find a way to say that it's the owners fault. You gotta pay to play, and so long as there is no emissions inspection in Texas (visual only, I believe) I won't be keeping emissions equipment. If the H&S product takes care of all the potential issues that could creep up with the new ECM you should be good to go.

One question would be this. Does anyone think there will be policies put in place for diesels to see if emissions equipment has been tampered with or the stock programming being changed prior to trade in? Could it affect re-sale values? I personally have traded in my last 2 D-Max's and I haven't ran into it. Just curious...

Like I said... I buy a vehicle pretty much every year from the same dealer, I know the owners of the dealer as well as the Sales Manager and most of the Tech staff. They take good care of me and don't bother questioning me. If I were to really mess something up knowing it was my fault I would gladly take care of it. I don't expect the dealer to fix a blown tranny that I knowingly broke! I would pay to upgrade and have a better one built and turn the whick up a little more! haha... I think most of the guys wanting the delete will agree with me on that one.

You had problems with the DEF and DPF on a stock 08 LMM?

Sounds like you had problems because you turned your "WORK TRUCK" into a track truck.

I highly doubt you would of had any problems with that truck if you would have put on Tony's EGR/DPF delete and left power levels stock.

You would probably have been O.K. just turning up power a little bit. I have an 06' 3500 Flatbed with Kennedy's 65 HP tune with the emissions shut off but not removed, It has over 130,000 miles on it and it is flawless.

I know quite a few guys that are driving around everyday with LMM's with the emissions delete that have no problems whatsoever, but they didn't have race trucks either.

Like I said before, you take the emissions off these trucks, they are fundamentally the same across the board. If these trucks were so unreliable without the emissions and it was such a big risk to remove, guys like Tony B would have there hands full trying to explain to customers why there truck broke down right away.

My 03' doesn't have emissions. Why would it matter if my 2011 doesn't. Is there something in the internals that can tell if the motor does or does not have emissions? Does the fuel system act different? Does the timing change? None of these things matter if you leave at stock levels and remove emissions.

BTW, thanks for the permission to do what I want to my truck.

Have fun at the dealer with your DEF issues.

You had problems with the DEF and DPF on a stock 08 LMM?
No... Don't really know what your getting at here:confused: LMM's don't use DEF
Sounds like you had problems because you turned your "WORK TRUCK" into a track truck.
Yes this was part of the problem

I highly doubt you would of had any problems with that truck if you would have put on Tony's EGR/DPF delete and left power levels stock.
I don't get it what is the point of pulling the emissions if your leaving it stock:confused: You honestly think the new emissions are that unreliable??
You would probably have been O.K. just turning up power a little bit. I have an 06' 3500 Flatbed with Kennedy's 65 HP tune with the emissions shut off but not removed, It has over 130,000 miles on it and it is flawless.
Congradulations
I know quite a few guys that are driving around everyday with LMM's with the emissions delete that have no problems whatsoever, but they didn't have race trucks either.

Like I said before, you take the emissions off these trucks, they are fundamentally the same across the board. If these trucks were so unreliable without the emissions and it was such a big risk to remove, guys like Tony B would have there hands full trying to explain to customers why there truck broke down right away.
They are not the same There are way more electronics in the later models

My 03' doesn't have emissions. Why would it matter if my 2011 doesn't. Is there something in the internals that can tell if the motor does or does not have emissions? Does the fuel system act different? Does the timing change? None of these things matter if you leave at stock levels and remove emissions.
Like I said there are way more electronics and way more sensors... the 2011 has a completely different fuel system all together genius:rolleyes:
BTW, thanks for the permission to do what I want to my truck.
No problem.... Need anything else let me know;)
Have fun at the dealer with your DEF issues.
WTF is so bad about taking your truck to the dealer:confused: I take there tell them to fix it and in the mean time they hook me up with another Dmax

You obviously haven't read any of the DEF posts in the LML section.

The new emissions are highly unreliable. Mostly the DEF.

IIRC, there are about 400+ replies regarding the DEF problems people are having.

The major problem is that the dealer has no idea what is wrong. Like I said, wade through the DEF posts in the LML section. I believe there is one guy in Canada that said something about 20+ engineers looking into the problem.

How can you get something fixed if the people who get trained to work on these things cannot fix the problem?

Good luck with any dealer "hooking you up" with another dmax.

I am fortunate to have a fleet of vehicles to replace the one that is getting fixed, but most people don't have that option.

Read some more posts about the DEF problems and maybe you'll be convinced about the emissions delete.

The dealer takes too damn long to get anything done. The techs have so much extra stuff to do aside from the actual work. There are a bunch of really smart folks in some of the dealerships around here but they cant get anything done because GM is telling them how long things should take and how much time they can spend on things. I choose to do my own work because I enjoy messing with this stuff.

I had an LMM before this LML and I deleted the DPF about 2 days after I bought it, best move I ever made. As soon as H&S gets their stuff to market, this emissions stuff will be gone too.

Good luck with any dealer "hooking you up" with another dmax.


No Joke, I always get stuck with a Cobalt or a Malibu:)

I'm new to duramax's. On a new truck with a 150hp tuner, what would fail first in the transmission? Torque converter? I have no experience with allison's. I can tell you about dodge and ford transmissions though.

I'm new to duramax's. On a new truck with a 150hp tuner, what would fail first in the transmission? Torque converter? I have no experience with allison's. I can tell you about dodge and ford transmissions though.

That has been my experience. Clutches start slipping and it's downhill from there. But yes converter and guts is typically first. C2s and C3s go quick

You obviously haven't read any of the DEF posts in the LML section.

The new emissions are highly unreliable. Mostly the DEF.

IIRC, there are about 400+ replies regarding the DEF problems people are having.

The major problem is that the dealer has no idea what is wrong. Like I said, wade through the DEF posts in the LML section. I believe there is one guy in Canada that said something about 20+ engineers looking into the problem.

How can you get something fixed if the people who get trained to work on these things cannot fix the problem?

Good luck with any dealer "hooking you up" with another dmax.

I am fortunate to have a fleet of vehicles to replace the one that is getting fixed, but most people don't have that option.

Read some more posts about the DEF problems and maybe you'll be convinced about the emissions delete.

I am sure GM is working hard to get the bugs worked out of the DEF issues, my truck will be here in a month I doubt I will have much for issues... we have had my old man's truck on the farm now for a month he just pulled a snowmobile trailer 1,400 miles to the mountains with it. It has be running like a top, not one bit of trouble

No Joke, I always get stuck with a Cobalt or a Malibu:)

If you guys get put in a Cobalt when you drop your Dax off you need to find a new dealer period.... that is pathetic
I have never been given a vehicle that wasn't capable of doing what my Dmax could do.... that's the way it should be

I have had my truck since Nov. and just rolled 13,000.

It has been to dealer 3 times.

When everybody on this forum bought these trucks, we all had sunshine and rainbows in our eyes. The reality is, the emissions and DEF are piece of crap.

You can hope all you want about the truck your getting in a month will be problem free, however, if they fixed the problem on the newer builds, then that means they have a re-flash on the older ones. Unfortunately this is not the case. They have 3 or 4 different re-flashs right now and none of them wok. It is a band-aid on top of another band-aid.

Hence the excitement over a company finally making a system that rids these beasts of the restrictive emissions.

If you think that the emissions are going to be no problems, then keep living the dream about a truck you don't even own yet.

Just wait, your Dad's truck will have problems. I promise.

When you go to this amazing dealership you talk about, they will give you the same deer in the headlights the other dealers give the rest of us.

That has been my experience. Clutches start slipping and it's downhill from there. But yes converter and guts is typically first. C2s and C3s go quick

If I was say to put a sun coast torque converter in would that save the transmission enough to hold 500rwhp?

I'm in the process of buying a new truck. I was all about the GM running 37's and 500 rwhp. But this whole tranny not being about to hold up and computer recording tunes has me kind of worried.

I have had my truck since Nov. and just rolled 13,000.

It has been to dealer 3 times.

When everybody on this forum bought these trucks, we all had sunshine and rainbows in our eyes. The reality is, the emissions and DEF are piece of crap.

You can hope all you want about the truck your getting in a month will be problem free, however, if they fixed the problem on the newer builds, then that means they have a re-flash on the older ones. Unfortunately this is not the case. They have 3 or 4 different re-flashs right now and none of them wok. It is a band-aid on top of another band-aid.

Hence the excitement over a company finally making a system that rids these beasts of the restrictive emissions.

If you think that the emissions are going to be no problems, then keep living the dream about a truck you don't even own yet.

Just wait, your Dad's truck will have problems. I promise.

When you go to this amazing dealership you talk about, they will give you the same deer in the headlights the other dealers give the rest of us.

LMAO so you think every Faucking LML on Earth is having the same troubles you are:confused:.... you are just bitter about taking your truck to the dealer 3 times, now your just being a baby about it, guess what.... coming on the internet and crying to everyone isn't going to help your troubles:rolleyes:

LMAO so you think every Faucking LML on Earth is having the same troubles you are:confused:.... you are just bitter about taking your truck to the dealer 3 times, now your just being a baby about it, guess what.... coming on the internet and crying to everyone isn't going to help your troubles:rolleyes:

The bulk majority of them are, mine included. If you're not, consider yourself VERY lucky.

Just delete the crap and be done with it!

If I was say to put a sun coast torque converter in would that save the transmission enough to hold 500rwhp?

I'm in the process of buying a new truck. I was all about the GM running 37's and 500 rwhp. But this whole tranny not being about to hold up and computer recording tunes has me kind of worried.

Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.

Just delete the crap and be done with it!

:ro)

That's what I will be doing. To hell with DPF, DEF, SCR, and DOC. From all these acronyms one might get the idea the government is involved way too much in our trucks. :cool:

:ro)

That's what I will be doing. To hell with DPF, DEF, SCR, and DOC. From all these acronyms one might get the idea the government is involved way too much in our trucks. :cool:


LOL!! I couldn't agree more

http://www.hsperformance.com/2011-lml-duramax-dyno/

H&S released their final numbers for the different levels...found this on their group on facebook

Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.

Okay cool I will hunt him down. After the converter what is the 2nd weakest link?

Sounds like iceman should have the internet toughguy avatar. Calling me a baby because I paid for a truck that has been at the dealer 3 times. Wow!

Like I said before, I use my truck. Look at the mileage. Wow, a whole 1400 miles on your daddy's truck. Wow, how did you rack up so many miles so soon.

Like I also said, just wait until your garage queen is at the dealer more times than you have miles. Then you won't be so tough. You'll be trolling around looking for an answer.

Go give yourself a swirly and cool down. Your talking about a truck you don't even have. Maybe you should STFU and let the big boys on here who have these trucks already talk about there issues. Until you get one and experience what we have to deal with, you have no business even in this section.

Good job H&S, I hope it all works as good as we think.

P.S.- Anytime your ready!

Originally Posted by lgo86 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4217276#post4217276)
Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.


I dont believe lgo86 knows what he is talking about in regards to the Allison. He seems to be a little confused. I am certain that you will need more than just a converter to safely hold 500 rwhp

Originally Posted by lgo86 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4217276#post4217276)
Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.


I dont believe lgo86 knows what he is talking about in regards to the Allison. He seems to be a little confused. I am certain that you will need more than just a converter to safely hold 500 rwhp

Not to start shit. But if the Allison is unable to safely hold 500 rwhp, would it be safe to say that the ford transmission is a stronger? Maybe not as efficient as the Allison, but stronger?

Originally Posted by lgo86 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4217276#post4217276)
Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.


I dont believe lgo86 knows what he is talking about in regards to the Allison. He seems to be a little confused. I am certain that you will need more than just a converter to safely hold 500 rwhp

Just talkin from experience dude. Both of my last 2 Duramax's made 500 rwhp with only a suncoast converter by way of transmission mods, so you my friend can take your opinions elsewhere. If you abuse anything its going to get jacked up. And if you would have read my last post I said after a converter something else may come up. Gotta love these forums, so many experts.

Not to start shit. But if the Allison is unable to safely hold 500 rwhp, would it be safe to say that the ford transmission is a stronger? Maybe not as efficient as the Allison, but stronger?

The Allison is a tough transmission but far from bulletproof. If you run the hell out of anything its going to break at some point. If you are going to run big power, it will always be the next thing to fix...depending on how you use it. I don't abuse my stuff and the tranny work I told you about was what I did and it held up just fine for me.

Just talkin from experience dude. Both of my last 2 Duramax's made 500 rwhp with only a suncoast converter by way of transmission mods, so you my friend can take your opinions elsewhere. If you abuse anything its going to get jacked up. And if you would have read my last post I said after a converter something else may come up. Gotta love these forums, so many experts.

So your saying JUST a Converter and your good to go huh? You obviously have no idea what you're talking about.

They may of made 500 RWHP, but I can guarantee you it won't last long!

Definitely. If you go with a Suncoast converter you will be fine in the clutch part of the scenario. Just remember though, when you make a weak link stronger the next wink link always comes up down the line. But for 500 rwhp you should be good to go. If you want to know more about the Allison contact Mike L on this forum. He is the Allison guru, and he will actually talk to you and answer any questions.

Yo uDO realize that the LML uses an ALL NEW trans now that not many parts inside of it are the same as the old one right? And from what Mike himself has said it is an all new beast and parts for it aren't out yet. He is currently working on a torque converter for them as they ARE different, and he is in the clutch testing phase now as well(the new trans uses all new clutch materials that are still untested at high power levels). Plus the new shifting algo rythims along with TCM controlled line pressure throws a monkey wrench into the whole trans scenario as well. You may want to wait awhile to see what they need to hold-up, but this will require some trucks making big power to break em and see what needs upgrading. Last Mike said was he was devoting most of his time to the new tranny as he sees alot of promise in it.

yah so dont cook your new trannies yet cause you'll be paying for a stock rebuild!!!! Then a built tranny later when kits are made.

Sounds pricey to me!

Sounds like iceman should have the internet toughguy avatar. Calling me a baby because I paid for a truck that has been at the dealer 3 times. Wow!

Like I said before, I use my truck. Look at the mileage. Wow, a whole 1400 miles on your daddy's truck. Wow, how did you rack up so many miles so soon.
You read anything I write?? 1400 miles came from the one trip... I don't not know how many miles it has on it now he has been driving it none stop and is in love with it.

Like I also said, just wait until your garage queen is at the dealer more times than you have miles. Then you won't be so tough. You'll be trolling around looking for an answer.
WTH would I be looking for an answer if I have warranty?? That isn't my job

Go give yourself a swirly and cool down. Your talking about a truck you don't even have. Maybe you should STFU and let the big boys on here who have these trucks already talk about there issues. Until you get one and experience what we have to deal with, you have no business even in this section.
LMAO so your a Big boy now cause you already have your truck... Who's the internet tough guy now?
Good job H&S, I hope it all works as good as we think.

P.S.- Anytime your ready!

Anyways you win... its been fun lol.... I am done now, I think we have derailed the thread enough

I found this on youtube YouTube - PowerLabs Diesel LML duramax, deleted and H&S tuned! I cant wait to get this done to mine.I wonder what kind of 1/4 mile times will I see? I have the reg cab z71 hopefully high 13s i would think.

Holy cow that speedometer needle is nuts.

As far as warranty issues - I wander if one encountered a situation that he would like to challenge the warranty if the DPF and DEF tank were put back on and tunning removed if the foot print would be clear enough for the tech to raise a flag. Say for example the air conditioner failed - would this void the warranty??

no, a tuner will never void any aspect of your warranty that is not directly related to the aftermarket part itself. If you put a tuner in, and your air conditioning stops working, leave the tuner right in, it will not affect you having that warranty repaired. If a tie rod/ball joint etc fail, take it in and get it fixed. The issues arise when you have something that most likely was broken due to the added power, say a slipping transmission, (or god forbid) a hiccup in the tune, and a piston hanging out of the side of the block. Those are the types of issues you are going to have a hard time warrantying.

#08-06-04-006H: Identifying Non-GM ECM Calibration Usages for Duramax Diesel Engines and Power-up Hardware Detection - (Feb 7, 2011)


Subject: Information on Identifying Non-GM ECM Calibration Usages for Duramax™ Diesel Engines RPOs LBZ, LLY, LMM, LML, LGH and Power-up Hardware Detection for Duramax™ Diesel Engine RPO LMM -- Photograph Tech 2® Calibration IDs and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) and Transmission Data Screen Before Removing Engine/Transmission/Drivetrain Components


Models: 2006-2011 Chevrolet Express, Kodiak, Silverado

2006-2011 GMC Savana, Sierra, TopKick

Equipped With Duramax™ Diesel Engine RPOs LBZ, LLY, LMM, LML, LGH

Please Refer to GMVIS


Attention: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain hard part WARRANTY CLAIM, you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This bulletin is being revised to update the model years and RPOs. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-006G (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission, diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) and exhaust particulate filter failures that are the result of non-GM ( aftermarket Power-up Kits ) engine and transmission control calibrations being used. When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any UNAUTHORIZED dealer warranty claim submissions to any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at time of first sale, or subsequently updated by GM or its dealers with approved calibrations. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor performance and or shortened life. Additionally, non-GM issued engine control modifications do not meet the same emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.

This bulletin outlines procedures to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine, transmission, transfer case or rear axle components, and before disassembly, repair or replacement of an engine, transmission, transfer case or rear axle assembly under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be performed whenever diagnostics indicate that the diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) needs replacement.

Note: BEFORE authorizing any Duramax™ diesel engine or transmission replacement, the PQC will require digital photographs of the following Tech 2® screens:

• For RPOs LLY and LBZ only: Calibration ID Numbers and Verification Numbers from the Vehicle Information screen

• For RPO LMM only: Calibration ID Numbers and Verification Numbers from the Vehicle Information AND the Programming History screen.

• For RPO LMM only: Transmission Data screen containing the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter.

Symptoms Caused by Aftermarket Power-up Kit
Some customers may have reprogrammed the engine control module (ECM) with a non-GM released calibration. The Power-Up Kit engine calibration changes fueling and timing parameters and likely contributes to the following vehicle conditions:

• Poor performance

• Driveability concerns

• Increased emissions

• Black smoke (This symptom is not valid for the Duramax™ diesel engine RPO LMM equipped with the exhaust particulate filter. The filter will trap black smoke unless it is cracked, melted or has been removed from the exhaust system.)

• Knocking noise

• Engine damage (Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 06-06-01-007C for additional information.)

2005-2007 RPO LLY and LBZ Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) -- Power-up Kit Detection
Important: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain WARRANTY CLAIM , you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing the engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.

Go to TIS2WEB
Select: Calibration Information (SPS Info)
Enter the VIN
Select: Get Cal ID
Select: ECM Engine Control Module
Select: Next
Select: Complete History
Print
Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2®
Plug in the Tech 2®
Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
Select: Powertrain
Select: Engine
*Select: Engine Control Module
*Select: Module ID Information or I/M Information System if Module ID Information selection is not available.
*If: I/M Information System was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select: Vehicle Information in order to display the calibration information.
*Steps may vary by engine controller.

Compare the Calibration ID and Calibration Verification Number (CVN) to the CVN shown on the TIS2WEB printout. Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it is the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. The CVNs should be the same.
⇒ If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A" , it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

⇒ If the part numbers match and ANY CVNs DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

⇒ If ALL of the CVNs are EXACTLY the same the calibration is GM issued.

Vehicle Information Screen




Take clear digital picture(s) of the Tech 2® Vehicle Information screen(s) showing the VIN, the Calibration IDs and the Verification Numbers. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photographs with the repair order.
18.1. E-mail copies of the digital pictures to tacsnapshot@gm.com. In the subject line of the E-mail include the phrase "Duramax™ diesel", the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the E-mail include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern.


Note: The dealer will receive an email reply after the calibrations have been validated. The email reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

18.2. Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒ If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

18.3. You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the required information for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review the information and set up a case on the request. Be prepared to provide all of the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

2007-2011 RPO LMM Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) -- Power-up Kit Detection
Important: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain WARRANTY CLAIM , you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing the engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.

For 2007-2011 applications, an engine control module (ECM) algorithm was implemented that records the engine calibration part number and calibration verification number (CVN) for the last 10 flash programming events. The ECM records the engine calibration part number because it contains the parameters for increasing torque and fueling rates.

If a vehicle comes in for service for a driveability/powertrain concern as a result of a Power-Up Kit installation, the dealership technician can read the last 10 engine calibration part numbers and CVN history using a Tech 2®.

The dealership technician will input each ECM calibration part number into the TIS2WEB/SPS CVN database to confirm the CVN history information. Refer to the following Tech 2® path table to verify the ECM calibrations.

Build the vehicle with the Tech 2®.
Select F0: Engine Control Module.
Select F5: Module Identification Information.
Select F1: Programming History.
Turn On the ignition, with the engine Off.
Press the ENTER Key to Continue.
Important: An original production engine operation part number programmed in the ECM from the supplier, which is the last part number shown, would not be in the TIS2WEB/SPS database.

Record the Calibration ID Numbers and Calibration Verification Numbers from the Tech 2® Programming History Screen. If the list of Calibration Part Numbers is less than 10, the first Calibration ID Number (bottom of the list) will not be in TIS2WEB/SPS CVN database. In this case, the first Calibration ID Number is programmed at the ECM production factory and is reprogrammed at the vehicle assembly plant.
From TIS2WEB/SPS, record the Calibration Part Number into the CVN Database. Get the CVN.
⇒ If the CVN DOES NOT MATCH the CVN database, an unauthorized engine calibration part WAS PROGRAMMED into the ECM.

⇒ If the CVN MATCHES the CVN database, the calibration/s are GM issued and an unauthorized engine calibration part WAS NOT used.

Programming History Screen




Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® Programming History screen showing the VIN, Calibration IDs and the CVNs. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photograph with the repair order.
Vehicle Information Screen




9.1. Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® Vehicle Information screen. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photograph with the repair order.

9.2. Take a clear digital picture of the Transmission Data screen that contains the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter. The path table is outlined in the following Instructions for Tech 2 Transmission Data Path section. Retain the Tech 2® Transmission Data screen photograph with the repair order.

9.3. E-mail copies of the digital pictures to tacsnapshot@gm.com. In the subject line of the E-mail include the phrase "Duramax™ diesel", the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the E-mail include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern.


Note: The dealer will receive an email reply after the calibrations have been validated. The email reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

9.4. Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒ If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

9.5. You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the required information for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review the information and set up a case on the request. Be prepared to provide all of the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

2007-2011 RPO LMM Instructions for Tech 2 Transmission Data Path -- Power-up Hardware Detection
Transmission Data ONLY Available With GMC Sierra, TopKick, Chevrolet Kodiak, Silverado
An example of this hardware is a propane injection system.

A transmission control module (TCM) algorithm has been implemented that records a maximum calculated input torque. This information is available via the Tech 2®.

Build the vehicle with the Tech 2®.
Select F3: Transmission Control Module
Select F1: Data Display
Select F0: Transmission Data
Highlight: Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque
Transmission Data Screen (Max. Trans Calc. Engine Torque Parameter)




Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® screen showing the Transmission Data and the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter.
Retain the Tech 2® Transmission Data screen photograph with the repair order.
Warranty Information
• The Dealership Service Management must be involved in any situation that would justify the use of labor operation Z1111.

• Notify the Fixed Operations Manager (FOM) (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada) of the situation.

• All claims will have to be routed to the FOM (WM in Canada) for approval.

• Please refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-00-89-016, Labor Operation Z1111 - Suspected Tampering or Vehicle Modifications for important information.

As far as warranty issues - I wander if one encountered a situation that he would like to challenge the warranty if the DPF and DEF tank were put back on and tunning removed if the foot print would be clear enough for the tech to raise a flag. Say for example the air conditioner failed - would this void the warranty??

no, a tuner will never void any aspect of your warranty that is not directly related to the aftermarket part itself. If you put a tuner in, and your air conditioning stops working, leave the tuner right in, it will not affect you having that warranty repaired. If a tie rod/ball joint etc fail, take it in and get it fixed. The issues arise when you have something that most likely was broken due to the added power, say a slipping transmission, (or god forbid) a hiccup in the tune, and a piston hanging out of the side of the block. Those are the types of issues you are going to have a hard time warrantying.

'99vette is correct: law states that any modifications/aftermarket parts may only void the warranty for those systems they effect. However, you better believe GM will take that as far as they can. If they know you've tuned they will void the entire powertrain warranty (rearend included) as well as related systems they could argue were impacted (cooling system for example).

Further, if you tune a LML PCM there is NO way to completely remove all evidence it has been tuned. Even if you "go back to stock" GM will be able to tell the PCM has been tuned.

-TJ

I think the only way might be to buy a new ECM and tune it but even then your old ECM wont have any of the regen's recorded along with other things im sure. I guess it comes down to if you play, dont expect GM to pay.

Something tells me the guys like H&S can remove the record in the ECM that is had been tuned if they want to.....

Thats what I was thinking why dont the tune guys put the CVN #'s GM looks for in the algorithm to truly hide what they and we do haha

EFI Live has said they can(on pre-LML's), but don't want to release that ability to the public for obvious reasons.

Something tells me the guys like H&S can remove the record in the ECM that is had been tuned if they want to.....

EFI Live has said they can(on pre-LML's), but don't want to release that ability to the public for obvious reasons.


Yep, Exactly, that's GM's way of knowing, and I would say you probably could guarantee yourself getting sued if you overrode that function inside the ECM.

Something tells me the guys like H&S can remove the record in the ECM that is had been tuned if they want to.....

Thats what I was thinking why dont the tune guys put the CVN #'s GM looks for in the algorithm to truly hide what they and we do haha

I don't think you'll find any of the tuners going out of there way to obviously circumvent GM's warranty checks. I also don't believe anybody has figured out how to "remove the record" of tunes or otherwise hide all evidence of a tune, but I'm honestly not 100% sure.

-TJ

#08-06-04-006H: Identifying Non-GM ECM Calibration Usages for Duramax Diesel Engines and Power-up Hardware Detection - (Feb 7, 2011)


Subject: Information on Identifying Non-GM ECM Calibration Usages for Duramax™ Diesel Engines RPOs LBZ, LLY, LMM, LML, LGH and Power-up Hardware Detection for Duramax™ Diesel Engine RPO LMM -- Photograph Tech 2® Calibration IDs and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) and Transmission Data Screen Before Removing Engine/Transmission/Drivetrain Components


Models: 2006-2011 Chevrolet Express, Kodiak, Silverado

2006-2011 GMC Savana, Sierra, TopKick

Equipped With Duramax™ Diesel Engine RPOs LBZ, LLY, LMM, LML, LGH

Please Refer to GMVIS


Attention: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain hard part WARRANTY CLAIM, you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.


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This bulletin is being revised to update the model years and RPOs. Please discard Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-006G (Section 06 - Engine/Propulsion System).


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General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission, diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) and exhaust particulate filter failures that are the result of non-GM ( aftermarket Power-up Kits ) engine and transmission control calibrations being used. When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy that prevents any UNAUTHORIZED dealer warranty claim submissions to any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at time of first sale, or subsequently updated by GM or its dealers with approved calibrations. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor performance and or shortened life. Additionally, non-GM issued engine control modifications do not meet the same emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.

This bulletin outlines procedures to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine, transmission, transfer case or rear axle components, and before disassembly, repair or replacement of an engine, transmission, transfer case or rear axle assembly under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be performed whenever diagnostics indicate that the diesel oxidation catalyst (DOC) needs replacement.

Note: BEFORE authorizing any Duramax™ diesel engine or transmission replacement, the PQC will require digital photographs of the following Tech 2® screens:

• For RPOs LLY and LBZ only: Calibration ID Numbers and Verification Numbers from the Vehicle Information screen

• For RPO LMM only: Calibration ID Numbers and Verification Numbers from the Vehicle Information AND the Programming History screen.

• For RPO LMM only: Transmission Data screen containing the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter.

Symptoms Caused by Aftermarket Power-up Kit
Some customers may have reprogrammed the engine control module (ECM) with a non-GM released calibration. The Power-Up Kit engine calibration changes fueling and timing parameters and likely contributes to the following vehicle conditions:

• Poor performance

• Driveability concerns

• Increased emissions

• Black smoke (This symptom is not valid for the Duramax™ diesel engine RPO LMM equipped with the exhaust particulate filter. The filter will trap black smoke unless it is cracked, melted or has been removed from the exhaust system.)

• Knocking noise

• Engine damage (Refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 06-06-01-007C for additional information.)

2005-2007 RPO LLY and LBZ Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) -- Power-up Kit Detection
Important: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain WARRANTY CLAIM , you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing the engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.

Go to TIS2WEB
Select: Calibration Information (SPS Info)
Enter the VIN
Select: Get Cal ID
Select: ECM Engine Control Module
Select: Next
Select: Complete History
Print
Take the printout to the vehicle along with the Tech 2®
Plug in the Tech 2®
Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle
Select: Powertrain
Select: Engine
*Select: Engine Control Module
*Select: Module ID Information or I/M Information System if Module ID Information selection is not available.
*If: I/M Information System was selected in step 15, it may be necessary to select: Vehicle Information in order to display the calibration information.
*Steps may vary by engine controller.

Compare the Calibration ID and Calibration Verification Number (CVN) to the CVN shown on the TIS2WEB printout. Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it is the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. The CVNs should be the same.
⇒ If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A" , it will be necessary to contact the TCSC to obtain the CVN information.

⇒ If the part numbers match and ANY CVNs DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed.

⇒ If ALL of the CVNs are EXACTLY the same the calibration is GM issued.

Vehicle Information Screen




Take clear digital picture(s) of the Tech 2® Vehicle Information screen(s) showing the VIN, the Calibration IDs and the Verification Numbers. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photographs with the repair order.
18.1. E-mail copies of the digital pictures to tacsnapshot@gm.com. In the subject line of the E-mail include the phrase "Duramax™ diesel", the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the E-mail include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern.


Note: The dealer will receive an email reply after the calibrations have been validated. The email reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

18.2. Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒ If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

18.3. You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the required information for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review the information and set up a case on the request. Be prepared to provide all of the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

2007-2011 RPO LMM Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Numbers (CVNs) -- Power-up Kit Detection
Important: In order to process an engine/transmission/drivetrain WARRANTY CLAIM , you MUST photograph the required Tech 2® screen information BEFORE disassembly or removing the engine/transmission/drivetrain components from the vehicle.

For 2007-2011 applications, an engine control module (ECM) algorithm was implemented that records the engine calibration part number and calibration verification number (CVN) for the last 10 flash programming events. The ECM records the engine calibration part number because it contains the parameters for increasing torque and fueling rates.

If a vehicle comes in for service for a driveability/powertrain concern as a result of a Power-Up Kit installation, the dealership technician can read the last 10 engine calibration part numbers and CVN history using a Tech 2®.

The dealership technician will input each ECM calibration part number into the TIS2WEB/SPS CVN database to confirm the CVN history information. Refer to the following Tech 2® path table to verify the ECM calibrations.

Build the vehicle with the Tech 2®.
Select F0: Engine Control Module.
Select F5: Module Identification Information.
Select F1: Programming History.
Turn On the ignition, with the engine Off.
Press the ENTER Key to Continue.
Important: An original production engine operation part number programmed in the ECM from the supplier, which is the last part number shown, would not be in the TIS2WEB/SPS database.

Record the Calibration ID Numbers and Calibration Verification Numbers from the Tech 2® Programming History Screen. If the list of Calibration Part Numbers is less than 10, the first Calibration ID Number (bottom of the list) will not be in TIS2WEB/SPS CVN database. In this case, the first Calibration ID Number is programmed at the ECM production factory and is reprogrammed at the vehicle assembly plant.
From TIS2WEB/SPS, record the Calibration Part Number into the CVN Database. Get the CVN.
⇒ If the CVN DOES NOT MATCH the CVN database, an unauthorized engine calibration part WAS PROGRAMMED into the ECM.

⇒ If the CVN MATCHES the CVN database, the calibration/s are GM issued and an unauthorized engine calibration part WAS NOT used.

Programming History Screen




Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® Programming History screen showing the VIN, Calibration IDs and the CVNs. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photograph with the repair order.
Vehicle Information Screen




9.1. Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® Vehicle Information screen. Retain the printout information and the Tech 2® screen photograph with the repair order.

9.2. Take a clear digital picture of the Transmission Data screen that contains the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter. The path table is outlined in the following Instructions for Tech 2 Transmission Data Path section. Retain the Tech 2® Transmission Data screen photograph with the repair order.

9.3. E-mail copies of the digital pictures to tacsnapshot@gm.com. In the subject line of the E-mail include the phrase "Duramax™ diesel", the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the E-mail include the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC. Include a brief description of the customer concern and cause of the concern.


Note: The dealer will receive an email reply after the calibrations have been validated. The email reply will advise the dealer if the calibrations are OEM.

9.4. Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.

⇒ If the PQC determines that the calibrations ARE aftermarket calibrations, DO NOT contact GM Technical Assistance to discuss warranty concerns on the aftermarket calibrations. ALL questions and concerns about warranty should be directed to the dealers Fixed Operations Manager (FOM), (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada).

9.5. You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the required information for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review the information and set up a case on the request. Be prepared to provide all of the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

2007-2011 RPO LMM Instructions for Tech 2 Transmission Data Path -- Power-up Hardware Detection
Transmission Data ONLY Available With GMC Sierra, TopKick, Chevrolet Kodiak, Silverado
An example of this hardware is a propane injection system.

A transmission control module (TCM) algorithm has been implemented that records a maximum calculated input torque. This information is available via the Tech 2®.

Build the vehicle with the Tech 2®.
Select F3: Transmission Control Module
Select F1: Data Display
Select F0: Transmission Data
Highlight: Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque
Transmission Data Screen (Max. Trans Calc. Engine Torque Parameter)




Take a clear digital picture of the Tech 2® screen showing the Transmission Data and the Max Transmission Calc Engine Torque parameter.
Retain the Tech 2® Transmission Data screen photograph with the repair order.
Warranty Information
• The Dealership Service Management must be involved in any situation that would justify the use of labor operation Z1111.

• Notify the Fixed Operations Manager (FOM) (Warranty Manager (WM) in Canada) of the situation.

• All claims will have to be routed to the FOM (WM in Canada) for approval.

• Please refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 09-00-89-016, Labor Operation Z1111 - Suspected Tampering or Vehicle Modifications for important information.

This appears to focus mainly on added power - I am not interested in adding any power.

I just want to delet all the emissions, lets say for example an injector or two fail. If the tech check the ECM and no high than stock power levels were found would the GM warranty automatically be void or would this more of less be up to the dealer.

I am sure i know the anser to this question but wanted to see what others opinions are on this.

I think it boils down to ignition cycles or some other way of G.M. reading info.

IIRC, they can read anything. When I tuned my 03' I left my stock ecm stock and purchased another from kennedy.

That way if I needed anything, the dealership doesn't have a clue.

I don't know if this the same with the 2011's but I think it might be.

Either way, I don't know if there is a way around it. I'm with you, no power, just emissions gone. I pull around a JD 50D mini-ex w/ trailer that scales just over 16,200 lbs.

This truck does it with no problem. I have made multiple trips to Iowa, SD and to the North Shore, MN.

The only problem I have ever had is DEF.

This appears to focus mainly on added power - I am not interested in adding any power.

I just want to delet all the emissions, lets say for example an injector or two fail. If the tech check the ECM and no high than stock power levels were found would the GM warranty automatically be void or would this more of less be up to the dealer.

I am sure i know the anser to this question but wanted to see what others opinions are on this.

They don't care. If they see a non-GM cal. in the ECM, your warranty will be void. ESPECIALLY on something like injectors. They can tell the torque output through the TCM, but they won't even bother checking if they see a cal. there that shouldn't be. For all they know it could be a fault with the programmer that tuned something wrong, and killed an injector. Trust me, they won't be lenient/give you the benefit of the doubt.

I don't know if this the same with the 2011's but I think it might be.

No, it's not. The bottom line is, there is no possible way to get away with it, IF THEY WANT TO KNOW. If you switch ECM's, the number of regens won't correspond with the miles and will set a red flag for the tech looking at it.

Could you remove the evidence with a Tech2?

Could you remove the evidence with a Tech2?

NO. On top of the TCM tracking torque input, the BCM keeps track of fuel used so they can go one step furthur in checking to see if it was tuned as GM is covering its a$$ now with diesels.

So all the arguing aside - is thie product available yet as a kit. Exhaust / turner and all?

I am ready to get rid of the DPF and DEF.

Yup released today!

So all the arguing aside - is thie product available yet as a kit. Exhaust / turner and all?

I am ready to get rid of the DPF and DEF.

We have everything available now. Let me know if I can help!

where is H&S located?

We have everything available now. Let me know if I can help!

Does that include downpipes/SCR deletes?

-TJ