well this time i am pi$$ed this is the third time in less then 9 months not including when it was stock that my trans has bit the dust and this time it grenaded, I have taken every step to make my trans live drive it at full power(no learning), little drag racing and no boosted launches on the street, i have had 6 or seven hooks and thats it, well since I have had the charger on I have not been able to build more then 41psi of boost, i did every thing with fuel and air flow that I could so I took it to the track tonight to see if it was just my imagination, to see what it would run FIRST pass 3 to 4 shift its gone nothing no forward no reverse. whats the answer i give up

well this time i am pi$$ed this is the third time in less then 9 months not including when it was stock that my trans has bit the dust and this time it grenaded, I have taken every step to make my trans live drive it at full power(no learning), little drag racing and no boosted launches on the street, i have had 6 or seven hooks and thats it, well since I have had the charger on I have not been able to build more then 41psi of boost, i did every thing with fuel and air flow that I could so I took it to the track tonight to see if it was just my imagination, to see what it would run FIRST pass 3 to 4 shift its gone nothing no forward no reverse. whats the answer i give up


Cooked C1 and possibly C2

What is in your transmission? ATS makes a trans that is guaranteed to hold 1000hp. And it is a bargain at just over $7000. :D

everything is in my trans, I broke hard parts this time, i thought it was my driveshaft when it went.

everything is in my trans, I broke hard parts this time, i thought it was my driveshaft when it went.

Just wondering

How do you know? Have access to a Tech II?

REMEMBER BROKER (Tom L)? I REALLY DO THINK HE'S GONE QUEER,HE CAN"T
KEEP HIS MIND OFF OF ME!
:Nonono:


What is it Paul Harvey always says when he comes back from commercial?

And now, the rest of the story...

Last I checked this thread wasn't about Mac's signature.

Hard part damage is very rare on the Ally under any circumstances. Maybe a defective needle bearing was overlooked.

have not hooked up a tech2 did reset codes with the ppe had 2 codes both 700s when it went it went it went, if it was not hard parts it sure sounded like it, when i put it into gear nothing no engagement forward or reverse, I guess we will see but the bottom line is my truck has been down for trans failure way to many times and I have kept it to myself for the most part but the cost is adding up and now I have to make a decision to spend another 5000 to 6000 something I nor my wife are happy about especially since I told here when the levelIII went in the first time that there would be no worries it would be bullit proof, hell i nuked that one running the 1/4 in 13.3s how many trucks out there keep blowing there trans out like mine first time c1s were wasted 2nd time c3s now I have no idea what happened but that allison will never go back under my truck it will be something with a full warrenty which I would strongly recommend to any one who is getting a trans go full blown with a warrenty and do not look back. this current trans has the mikel trans cooler the copilot and had line pressure in the 300s, it also had the TTS convertor so i put good stuff in but I was compensating for stuff that should have been right the first time.

Well I have a long day ahead of me on the phone and what not.

that sucks man:(

It is unfortunate. By the looks of your signature it doesn't surprise me though. Have you had the truck dyno'd? You are going to need a pretty rock solid transmission to hold what you are putting through it.

What is it Paul Harvey always says when he comes back from comercial?

He also sold JB Weld, maybe that`s what it needs!;)

On a serious note, sorry to hear about you trouble!

I got the truck back for the wauseon pull, hooked twice, then irp hooked twice made one pass down the strip, then a kentucky pull, then it went down for the charger and injector install, made three hooks and one attempt down the strip + trying to dial it in for the charger on the street so it has not seen much, but yes my truck should make lots of power but my trans should be holding up longer then it has, ryanu how many trans ? tomac? kyle? moss?ratlover? mine has been out three times already this year $3700,$2200,$1300(copilot,trans cooler, and brace included in upgrades)eric lives 3hours away so its a pain +when its down I do not to get to use it for what I built it for two pulls this weekend scratched, now its going to cost me another 5000 so it hurts but mostly it hurts my pride as my already poor justifications to my wonderful wife come back and sock me right in the gut, she has been growing tired of my hobby on top of that i got pulled home by a couple of powerstroke boys who think the torqueslip is a much better trans then the alli, same guys whos 120hp chipped 6.0 beat me at fair in my 600hp max(driver error but that does not matter to them) thats OK cause eventually they will get it +they gave me beer to drown my sorrows so anyways my mood is getting better just talked to eric and i think we will get it sorted out.

Egads that sucks. I hope everything works out!

You got worse luck than PC man:( Trans shouldnt have let go. Either a premature part failure or an installallation error. Was it a drop in SC this time or what? It shouldnt have blown up IMO and you shouldnt be footing the bill on this one unless there is something else wacky here going on.

Dale, that sucks...........

I know what I have put my SC-III thru for the past year..........with close to 100 passes on it it has worked flawlessly........

I am running just the 190 psi booster valve and recently added the Co-Pilot.........but I only use the Co-Pilot for drag racing......

Hope you get it sorted out.......:cool:
.
.
.

there have been "smaller" trannys holding up to the 500hp mark, and you havent quite hit that with the new setup and it cant hold that. look at me for instance, i dont have a clue whats been done to mine and its been one full year to the day and its still in there. maybe your truck dont like your emissions crap?? no pun intended but if anyone was to have bad luck, it seems that dale is on the top of the list!

Is this an LLY? McRat claims an LLY tranny will not hold what an LB7 tranny will. I have no idea if this is true or not.

I disagree with McRat on the LLY Ally not holding as much.

lb7 with cal emissions

McRat claims an LLY tranny will not hold what an LB7 tranny will. I have no idea if this is true or not.

What's funny about the LLY Vs LB7 trans issue is they use the same parts! The '05 uses a slightly different pump but that's it. Since the pumps job is to create fluild flow and pressure and it does that just fine I think someone is full of it.

Maybe I am mistaking but I am pretty sure I saw him post that somewhere.

It is irrelevent to this post anyways as bigd has an LB7.

well the days news on my trans problems went so-so i have not recieved some of the support i was hoping for but all in all I think eric is going to come thru for me, tommarrow it will head to erics and get torn down and maybe we will have a answer to what failed and why(not that it matters why anymore), then i will more then likely be having a order put in for a new trans with a god awful color to it, but things could change.Thanks to those that I was intouch with today I appreciate it especially those who I have pi$$ed off before. Hopefully I can have this thing back on the road for schieds but the way it sounds it may be somewhat tricky for every thing to work out right. Since I went public with this (those that were aware that I had previousaly nuked 2 other trans the last couple months know I have been pretty reserved about this) I will keep this thread informed to let you know the details.

then i will more then likely be having a order put in for a new trans with a god awful color to it, .

It aint so bad,the warranty sold me as I have worn your shoes!

Purple ain't so bad!!!

Good luck with everything. I was down this road a little over a year and a half ago with a cummins. Its better a tranny grenades and not a motor....trust me. Its frustrating when you do your homework and things explode anyway. Especially when folks aree holding things together with much less fore thought and investment. It will get better....let us know how it turns out!

ps: I thank you for sharing this with us.....its something the whole board may be able to learn from. Those powersnorter boys will be singing a different tune in no time at all....

For another $1000 you can get in black...

















:joke:

Purple holds up fine.:ro)

Is this an LLY? McRat claims an LLY tranny will not hold what an LB7 tranny will. I have no idea if this is true or not.

So far, nobody with an LLY in our area has had repeatable performance from the transmission when exceeding 500 RWHP, and a few have had erratic results after 440HP.

Typically the trans will misbehave at random on the 3-4, and never really clicks off a 4-5 shift.

If someone with an LLY with more than 500HP in an LLY is having flawless behavior from the trans, please tell us what you're running.

What's funny about the LLY Vs LB7 trans issue is they use the same parts! The '05 uses a slightly different pump but that's it. Since the pumps job is to create fluild flow and pressure and it does that just fine I think someone is full of it.

Guess you had to editorialize a tech thread.

OK...

13.71 @ 97.4 on a 2.0 60' in a 2WD LLY truck.

You are going the same MPH, same 60', so apparently your trans isn't working as good as mine, and mine needs some help.

Or do you want to explain where the rest of the ET went? .3 is a bunch.

I'm far from an expert on the hydraulics of the Allison, but let's see (correct me if I am wrong) if I have this right:

The later model transmissions do not accept the Transgo "cutback" valve in them as the OE unit has changed and Transgo has not yet produced one. Not sure if ATS has one or not.

This valve reduces the pressure cutback when TCC is locked correct?

Now, if the OE cutback valve is reducing pressure below what a transmission equipped with the modified valve, would this not reduce the pressure to the clutches therefore reducing holding capacity?

Guess you had to editorialize a tech thread.

OK...

13.71 @ 97.4 on a 2.0 60' in a 2WD LLY truck.

You are going the same MPH, same 60', so apparently your trans isn't working as good as mine, and mine needs some help.

Or do you want to explain where the rest of the ET went? .3 is a bunch.

Since you want to bring it up it's pretty simple

You ran your times last night at Fontana. Sea level track air temp in the 70's

I ran my times at LACR. 2600' above sea level air temp 108 with tire spinning 2.11 60' times @ 98.2 mph

So let's see comparing a sea level track in the high 70's air temp to a 2600' track with 108 air temp. It must be rocket scientist math to figure this one out! I guess we will see in Sept.................... unless of coarse you back out on another bet, again.

on edit: my transmission is just fine, sorry you cannot seem to fix yours

Since you want to bring it up it's pretty simple

You ran your times last night at Fontana. Sea level track air temp in the 70's

I ran my times at LACR. 2600' above sea level air temp 108 with tire spinning 2.11 60' times @ 98.2 mph

So let's see comparing a sea level track in the high 70's air temp to a 2600' track with 108 air temp. It must be rocket scientist math to figure this one out! I guess we will see in Sept.................... unless of coarse you back out on another bet, again.

on edit: my transmission is just fine, sorry you cannot seem to fix yours

Same 60', same MPH, auto trans, different ET's = different mid-track behavior.

Either different shift RPM, lack of area under the curve, or different shift operation.

Or do you have some special math that explains it? 4018' DA when the pass was done.

Are you implying you are happy with your LLY trans performance? That there is no room for improvement? That the LB7 does not shift better?

Pro tree Steve. Heads up. Neutral party holds the money before the event date. I have to show up. You aren't racing so it's optional for you.

PS - Fontana is neither sea level, nor 70 deg in August. 95 yesterday.

Same 60', same MPH, auto trans, different ET's = different mid-track behavior.

Either different shift RPM, lack of area under the curve, or different shift operation.

Or do you have some special math that explains it? 4018' DA when the pass was done.

Are you implying you are happy with your LLY trans performance? That there is no room for improvement? That the LB7 does not shift better?

Pro tree Steve. Heads up. Neutral party holds the money before the event date. I have to show up. You aren't racing so it's optional for you.

Let see in your new math a 2.0 60' is the same as a 2.11 60', 97 mph is the same as 98 mph, and a sea level track with air temps in the 70's is the same as a 2600' track with air temp. at 108. My transmission shifts no better and no worse than my old LB7 truck did. Is there room for improvement, sure there is always that but it's got nothing to do with why your slooooow. Make sure you bring enough money to cover all the bets you've made. You got $500 again me, $250 against Nick on the drag strip and another $250 against Nick on the pulling track. Your using two different trucks one for pulling and one for drags and Nick's running the same truck for both events. Seems like we have given you just about every advantage we can.

Let see in your new math a 2.0 60' is the same as a 2.11 60', 97 mph is the same as 98 mph, and a sea level track with air temps in the 70's is the same as a 2600' track with air temp. at 108. My transmission shifts no better and no worse than my old LB7 truck did. Is there room for improvement, sure there is always that but it's got nothing to do with why your slooooow. Make sure you bring enough money to cover all the bets you've made. You got $500 again me, $250 against Nick on the drag strip and another $250 against Nick on the pulling track. Your using two different trucks one for pulling and one for drags and Nick's running the same truck for both events. Seems like we have given you just about every advantage we can.

I never bet Nick money. I said an LLY will be the quickest truck at the event.
This got certain people upset because of the brand of tuner on Nick's truck.
I'm sure if all the LLY guys work together, we could catch up to the LB7's, but some folk have too much invested in the LB7 to give a ****about the LLY.

I want the LLY's to beat the LB7's. Which side are YOU on? Or do we already know?

Your denial that the LLY's have problems shifting with LB7 performance mods is not only wrong, it deliberately attempts to restrict people from looking for a solution.

I have nothing against you personally Steve, I think you're a great tuner and a true gearhead. It would be in all LLY owner's interest if you would just drop the politics and get on our side. Sadly, I don't think that will happen.

Let's find a solution, not deny there is a problem.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39937

Seems as if a member here (farmboystoy) has got the lly to the next level. A set of injectors an upgraded cp3 and a big ole hair dryer seems to be gettin the job done out here in the east.....ppe programming to boot.....

and another sighting.....
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40777

I would not want to bet against Mcrat....even with more power...you better be damn good on that pro tree or its gonna be all over before it even starts....

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39937

Seems as if a member here (farmboystoy) has got the lly to the next level. A set of injectors an upgraded cp3 and a big ole hair dryer seems to be gettin the job done out here in the east.....ppe programming to boot.....

and another sighting.....
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40777

The LLY trans and midrange torque give it an advantage pulling and towing, IMO. We have nearly LB7 HP in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, but with more area under the curve. Drags? We need some problems solved before we can catch up.

We are starting to get some of the shops (to remain nameless right now) to show an interest, and I'm optimistic if we share info the problems will be solved. Certainly saying there is no problem is not going to help much.

...I would not want to bet against Mcrat....even with more power...you better be damn good on that pro tree or its gonna be all over before it even starts....

I'm certainly no professional drag racer. But I have developed a reputation for beating faster cars with slower ones. He better bring his A game. :D

I never bet Nick money. I said an LLY will be the quickest truck at the event.
This got certain people upset because of the brand of tuner on Nick's truck.

I want the LLY's to beat the LB7's. Which side are YOU on? Or do we already know?



There are witnesses to you betting Nick, remember you two were not alone in the room! That said, the problem your looking for is not what side I'm on as there is no side to be on other than making the Duramax run to it's potential. What I refuse to do is go and run my mouth about something I know nothing about and you seem to have a habit of it. There is a problem with the LLY and the performance that "others" have made. It takes time and effort to solve these issues and you want a quick fix to go fast regardless of the consequence, I'm not willing to do that. I will plow along until I fix it or give up trying. What I can tell you is there is nothing wrong with the LLY transmission that is not the same as the LB7 transmission, sorry but those are cold hard facts. They are one in the same between the two. If you think I'm wrong quit running your mouth and develop your own products to fix the problems? You seem to have an answer to everything so just go do it and prove me wrong. See you at the track as long as you bring you $1000 were on for September at the High Desert Round Up!

broken input shaft

There are witnesses to you betting Nick, remember you two were not alone in the room! That said, the problem your looking for is not what side I'm on as there is no side to be on other than making the Duramax run to it's potential. What I refuse to do is go and run my mouth about something I know nothing about and you seem to have a habit of it. There is a problem with the LLY and the performance that "others" have made. It takes time and effort to solve these issues and you want a quick fix to go fast regardless of the consequence, I'm not willing to do that. I will plow along until I fix it or give up trying. What I can tell you is there is nothing wrong with the LLY transmission that is not the same as the LB7 transmission, sorry but those are cold hard facts. They are one in the same between the two. If you think I'm wrong quit running your mouth and develop your own products to fix the problems? You seem to have an answer to everything so just go do it and prove me wrong. See you at the track as long as you bring you $1000 were on for September at the High Desert Round Up!

So your LB7 truck ran just like your LLY? :D

Seriously Steve, have you driven a LLY with more than 500rwhp? If not, your "opinion" that the transmission holds just fine is a little pointless, eh?

I have never claimed to diesel tuner. I run "off-the-shelf" parts on my trucks with stock engines. You'd think a "tuner" would own me pretty hard. We'll see. Right now, you'd be struggling to beat Kat in her 7500lb Kidmobile on all terrains.

I'm out of this thread now, so it can get back on course, which is transmission problems.

broken input shaft

I guess that is both good and bad. You're not the first but you definately are in a limited group.

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/brokeninputshaft.gif

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/brokeninputshaft2.gif

broken input shaft

As the power goes up the next weakest link will show up. It looks like the input shaft might be the next part inline for replacement.

What is that input shaft worth?

that allison will never go back under my truck it will be something with a full warrenty which I would strongly recommend to any one who is getting a trans go full blown with a warrenty and do not look back.

Well I am going to contradict myself we(I) have decided to put it back together so I can go home and pull tommarrow(MY ADDICITION IS NOW FULL BLOWN)we will tweak a few things, i am going to order a ATS and sell this one for a good deal less then what it should be worth full discloser of course do not know if this is the right decision or not but it will save me money and the trans will be torn down and inspected before resale, Eric has done a supereb job as this will not cost me anything for todays work and if it fails in the meantime I will have to take full financial responsibility , it will be tested as early as tommarrow morning thanks to all who have helped and posted positve MikeL, Tony, nodmax, mackin, mcrat, da burgh tomac...others as well and of course Eric I will hopefully be able to follow this up with more good news as the trans is not even back together yet

That is pretty good of eric to look after todays R&R considering it is definately not his fault that your input shaft broke.

we are on the fence of why it broke I broke down track around 1/8 give or take and the rear wheels locked up, the engine stalled this in my belief is how it snapped with the motor running wide open and a sudden bind dragging rear wheels bing the weakest link was the input shaft.

Paul Harvey, good day...

the rest of the story would be what caused it to bind we did find a score mark on a drum, c2s are burnt

P1 planetary splines are twisted this area mates with the score on the drum, it may have cocked sideways causing the bind, blowing out the input shaft,.

transfercase inspection passed as well as rear diff.

Got any pictures?

yep eric will post them later

Its running right now, waiting for a road test, gauge is installed and we are waiting for it to get some heat in it. Took a moment to post some pics of the other damage we found. C2's were burnt so they were replaced. Tore the back end down for good measure and thought it was odd that I could not pull the P1 carrier out, wiggled and played and it finally come up, close inspection revealed Dale managed to twist the splines on it, pics below.

We decided to really inspect things carefully for any damage outside the trans, pulled the rearend cover, all looks good, drained the transfer case and found part of the pump clip broken off, fluid pretty black. Tore down the case and gave it a good inspection, all looked good outside the broken clip, installed a new clip and put it backtogather and bolted it all back in place, installing Dale's new Stroud bellhousing blanket as we went. Road test is next, I think all will be good for Dale to hook it tomarrow morning.





http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/p1splinetwisted1.gif

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/p1splinetwisted.gif

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/p1splinetwist1.gif

http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/p1splinetwist.gif

:eek: damn.!!

Crazy. Anyone ever seen that before?

Its running right now, waiting for a road test, gauge is installed and we are waiting for it to get some heat in it. Took a moment to post some pics of the other damage we found. C2's were burnt so they were replaced. Tore the back end down for good measure and thought it was odd that I could not pull the P1 carrier out, wiggled and played and it finally come up, close inspection revealed Dale managed to twist the splines on it, pics below.





http://www.gmdieseltech.com/images1/p1splinetwist1.gif



Eric,
You said that was the P1 carrier. Is that a typo? Kinda looks like the P2 carrier. :D

I came here today to just drop off my truck and thought i would be down for weeks, can't argue with the days end result, eric busted his ass, and i drank beer, he went beyond my expectations I hope i handled this in a appropriate manner as when it started out I was very upset but as it ends here i leave tired but happy.

Splined shafts can do 2 things when stressed, twist or break. Twisting is better. Whether it twists or breaks is dependent on heat treat and material. Typically stainless parts will twist, as will mild steel parts. Alloy steel that is heat treated to the point it will not twist, will break.

Oddly, I've seen a lot of twisted and broken stuff while playing with Vette. :(

Trippin, the splines that are stripped go to the C2 hub. Kind of gets confusing as there is different components on there, the P1 planets, P2 ring gear etc.
Besides, its late and it took alot of beer for this job... and alot of hard parts out of an old core. Man those parts I always horde come in handy for these situations

Road test finished, thing shifts clean and crisp like it should. Did take out the transgo cut back valve and installed an ATS cutback valve, I am happy with final line pressure results. 280 psi locked and 300 and spikes to 320 unlocked.

I hope i handled this in a appropriate manner as when it started out I was very upset but as it ends here i leave tired but happy.

I'd say reading between the lines you were breaking the guys nuts (over a problem that surfaced without knowing how or what happened) that ended up staying up late on a Saturday to get your truck going so you can make that pull the next day you are going through withdrawls over.....

..... why would you trade up with support like that...sounds like your resident SUNCOAST distributor didn't delaminate on you....service like that is hard to beat...;)

Crazy. Anyone ever seen that before?

You guys will find that the casting of the P1 is actually on the soft side and hardened only where the splines are at. (High tech metallurgy IMO)
I bet if pics where shown of the planetarys they would be bent as well.

This is a good example why it's not a good idea to make statements that a rebuilt transmission can hold 1000 hp. The GMC-Allison is a cool transmission design but it wasn't designed to hold the power the Duramax's are now approaching. Nor is the P1 and input shaft the cure all or end of the weak links.

bigd I have been in simular shoes more than once and you handled it pretty well with the beer and all!


Opie

Interesting. Takes a lot of power to do that much damage. Way to go Eric getting it all put back together....

Splined shafts can do 2 things when stressed, twist or break. Twisting is better. Whether it twists or breaks is dependent on heat treat and material. Typically stainless parts will twist, as will mild steel parts. Alloy steel that is heat treated to the point it will not twist, will break.

Oddly, I've seen a lot of twisted and broken stuff while playing with Vette. :(

You win the prize for breaking the most stuff with the Vette. :(

eric busted his ass, and i drank beerI just wanted to say I helped Dale drink beer and got in Eric's way.):h Glad to see you guys got her back together. Good luck at the pull Dale.

Interesting. Takes a lot of power to do that much damage. Way to go Eric getting it all put back together....

Actually, the spline twist doesn't take a lot of power. Joe has a planet of mine ( from my LLY) with twisted splines just like that. It was caused in my case by installer (read as ME) error that had the transmission doing odd things. I doubt Dale's was install error, but I'd bet something was applied when it shouldn't have been. I did not take the input shaft, but mine only occurred at <20mph and light pedal.

You guys will find that the casting of the P1 is actually on the soft side and hardened only where the splines are at. (High tech metallurgy IMO)
I bet if pics where shown of the planetarys they would be bent as well.

This is a good example why it's not a good idea to make statements that a rebuilt transmission can hold 1000 hp. The GMC-Allison is a cool transmission design but it wasn't designed to hold the power the Duramax's are now approaching. Nor is the P1 and input shaft the cure all or end of the weak links.

bigd I have been in simular shoes more than once and you handled it pretty well with the beer and all!


Opie

Hmmmm..... I.E. Time?;)

I'd say reading between the lines you were breaking the guys nuts (over a problem that surfaced without knowing how or what happened) that ended up staying up late on a Saturday to get your truck going so you can make that pull the next day you are going through withdrawls over.....

..... why would you trade up with support like that...sounds like your resident SUNCOAST distributor didn't delaminate on you....service like that is hard to beat...;)

Eric did a hell of a job, at the time that this happened I did not care why or what just cared that my trans failed, remember 3rd time, so being upset would seem natural don't you think.

How'd the pull go today?

Hmmmm..... I.E. Time?;)

I.E. already has enough things in the works. :cool:

Hopefully another company will take this one on and add another planetary gear in the design while they are at it.

I.E. already has enough things in the works. :cool:

.

Hmmm. Cool. I'll send them an email..... I have some questions.... they might have the answers I am looking for
:ro)

Just got a call from Dale, he broke it again.

Talked to Toman, it grinds in park and nuetral and noise goes away in gear.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is someting going on inside that trans that is invisiable... a cracked/porus case, crossleak in the valve body or something. I dont know. I really thought we had it licked last night, that trans was working flawless and line pressure was rock on. Talked to Dale and we are both lost. I've built ~75 of these transmissions and I have alot of these out there getting pushed harder/more often and no problems at all..... Tomac comes to mind first and foremost.

Dunno where the problem will lye in the end, but I am going to send the trans to Joe or Clint and have them tear it down and see if they can see something I can not. We discussed the option last night of building another core up to eliminate the case and valve body, but it would not have been done until mid week. Its too early to tell, but may have a TTS converter, Co-Pilot and some assorted internal upgrades for sale. Case and hard parts not avail at this time... LOL.....just trying to keep an up attitude on all of this. ...............Thanks for listening...

How'd the pull go today?
the truck was running like a frieght train 4000rpms 3rd gear locked then it just let loose still got 2nd place would like to know what my ground speed was, looks like it will be down for awhile again i made the call to reinstall i will accept the cost that lays ahead.

Just got a call from Dale, he broke it again.

Talked to Toman, it grinds in park and nuetral and noise goes away in gear.

There is no doubt in my mind that there is someting going on inside that trans that is invisiable... a cracked/porus case, crossleak in the valve body or something. I dont know. I really thought we had it licked last night, that trans was working flawless and line pressure was rock on. Talked to Dale and we are both lost. I've built ~75 of these transmissions and I have alot of these out there getting pushed harder/more often and no problems at all..... Tomac comes to mind first and foremost.

Dunno where the problem will lye in the end, but I am going to send the trans to Joe or Clint and have them tear it down and see if they can see something I can not. We discussed the option last night of building another core up to eliminate the case and valve body, but it would not have been done until mid week. Its too early to tell, but may have a TTS converter, Co-Pilot and some assorted internal upgrades for sale. Case and hard parts not avail at this time... LOL.....just trying to keep an up attitude on all of this. ...............Thanks for listening...

Damn,

Sorry to hear that. I was hoping you had it licked. :(

Just got a call from Dale, he broke it again.

Talked to Toman, it grinds in park and nuetral and noise goes away in gear.



I had that problem before on my truck, one of my converter bolts threaded out, and like one or two others were loose. Most likely will need a flex plate if this is the problem, atleast I did.

Jason

I had that problem before on my truck, one of my converter bolts threaded out, and like one or two others were loose. Most likely will need a flex plate if this is the problem, atleast I did.

Jason

Thanks, but the problems lie much deeper then a flexplate..

:cussing: S**t happens. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. You'll get it all worked out, it's good to have Eric on your side.

I don't know nuthin, but when it broke, was it about to downshift? Think a clutch pack stuck? Just thinking....TCM?

I would not rule out an electrical problem.

Pehaps beer drinking should have waited?

Pehaps beer drinking should have waited?

And you call yourself a transmission tech? Shame on you Mike L.

Allison wil smack you down when you feel her up and she smells beer on your breath.

Maybe you're not as smooth as some of us younger guys. I'd hate to think that the master is loosing his magic touch. :eek: :joke:

Allison wil smack you down when you feel her up and she smells beer on your breath.This little honey is whoopin my a$$. I cant even look at her anymore and she just starts grinding her teeth):h

Knowing the little you do MikeL, any thoughts?

Tony
Define smooth.

I'll let this thread get back on track. Sorry guys.

We were gangbangin' her last night, maybe that pissed her off...whoooops, so much for being on topic. I'm gonna go back under my rock.

This little honey is whoopin my a$$. I cant even look at her anymore and she just starts grinding her teeth):h

Knowing the little you do MikeL, any thoughts?

Must be all the power Joe at PPE is puting into the engine. I sure wouldn't want all that power in my truck, I might break something.

I would not rule out an electrical problem.


Has it thrown any codes?

Must be all the power Joe at PPE is puting into the engine. I sure wouldn't want all that power in my truck, I might break something..:blahblah: :blahblah:

Has it thrown any codes?not even when it wouldnt move.

That's odd. If you guys were doing the gang banging why did she explode and not you guys?:lol:
:Nothing_f

not even when it wouldnt move.


Thank's Eric

I was wondering if perhaps prior to total distruction if he was getting some TCM codes which would make you believe it was electrical.Solenoids stuck on,etc-


4000rpms 3rd gear locked

It was screaming along ,Hopefully it gets figured out.

Perhaps an ohm meter and a wiring trace would be in order...........see if something is shorted ??????

;)

I was thinking a flaw in the adaptive shifting.

I am thinking a new tcm may be in order

The last thing you want to do is throw money at the problem. It's not the TCM.

whats your thoughts electrical wise

4000 RPM seems like it might be off the tables. But I am guessing. I am also guessing about the shift transient without looking at the carnage.

Stared at the tranny prints for a while. Even though it was in 3'rd per Dale's descripition, it looks like the TCM tried to grab 4'th. The twisted splines and burnt C2's bear that out. Either it was a gear to far or C3 didn't release or just a sloppy shift. I vote for the first, but a harsh shift would also make sense since I doubt the tranny had a chance to learn that shift.

I know I'm late to the conversation, but we had seen one of these broken shafts a while back and the fracture surfaces are the same IIRC.

Rotating shaft breakage with a 90 degree fracture like Dale's are from ductile fracture.

Whatever happened, the torque simply exceeded the yield stress of the material and ultimately went beyond the ultimate strength of the steel to rupture. I think the twisted splines also support that the shafts are soft enough to stay in the ductile range.

McRat is right, though....with few exceptions, as you take the yield strength up, you start decreasing ductility. There are materials that provide compromises, however.

Dale / Eric, if you want to send me the snapped off butt end of the shaft, I might be able to tell you what steel it is and what kind of heat treatment it might have. No promises on how exact I can be, but I'll get 'er in the ballpark.

I talked to tomac and he has hit the same rpms pulling the sled ground speed around 25mph, when i left erics we reset tap cells and on our test drive we put a good beating on the truck actually hitting the most boost I have so far around 44psi, i pulled a empty trailer half way home 1hr 1/2 approx, then I loaded my wifes impala on it and pulled that the rest of the way home, 3: 45 am I hit the sack woke up at 6:30am set up the truck and was off to pull which was about 25 to 30 miles away. I had no complaints with the trans. The way it let go every one thought I threw it in neutral, there were already egr codes and maf codes set and i reset them inadvertanly reseting all codes that were stored,( i had the PPE hooked up while pulling as I often reset codes before i start the pull) then me and toman took it for a ride and it limped as soon as it tried to shift to 4th codes were 700 and 776 the rear of the trans was whinning(think supercharger) and had slow engagement when shifting from D to R, 3 to 4 secs before it would clunk and engage with the whinning noise. When it would limp there was no noise and all sounded good.

It isn't an rpm issue or anything caused by upshifting or downshifting under load hooked to the sled. I've seen 4000 rpm in 3rd low, 3500rpm in 4th low, kyle has seen up to 4400 in 3rd low. Also, on a funky track I've upshifted from 3rd to 4th gear at 300' with the box on the sled topped out. I run 2nd gear up to 4000rpm then shift to third on tight tracks all the time. I've downshifted from 4th to 3rd several times under full power and even 3rd to 2nd a couple times under full power.

I'm far from an expert on the hydraulics of the Allison, but let's see (correct me if I am wrong) if I have this right:

The later model transmissions do not accept the Transgo "cutback" valve in them as the OE unit has changed and Transgo has not yet produced one. Not sure if ATS has one or not.

This valve reduces the pressure cutback when TCC is locked correct?

Now, if the OE cutback valve is reducing pressure below what a transmission equipped with the modified valve, would this not reduce the pressure to the clutches therefore reducing holding capacity?

Anybody????

Dale / Eric, if you want to send me the snapped off butt end of the shaft, I might be able to tell you what steel it is and what kind of heat treatment it might have. No promises on how exact I can be, but I'll get 'er in the ballpark.

From what I could tell the hardening of the shaft in the spline area is done probably by a chemical process and not from heat treating. But like I mentioned earlier the casting itself is soft. Being exact on the type of steel isn't really important. Making one would be though.

Anybody????


As you know that was a problem "cut back " pressure with the Allison.So I have to say most certainly it would be a problem today if there was no way to raise line pressure after converter lock up.

Has anyone limped it in 5th although after extended abuse with some internal modes? Wouldn't that be the worse case or possible cause if your losing time at the track?

I agree with Mike not electrical

I would think possible bushing wear, possibly bearing and improper angle.Add some high RPM and a bounce and zing!
Snap right off at the TC

That's my guess :o:

Isn't max input rpm 4600?

As you know that was a problem "cut back " pressure with the Allison.So I have to say most certainly it would be a problem today if there was no way to raise line pressure after converter lock up.

Has anyone limped it in 5th although after extended abuse with some internal modes? Wouldn't that be the worse case or possible cause if your losing time at the track?

A few pages back they were emphatically saying that they have the same capacity, or did I misunderstand? :confused:

A few pages back they were emphatically saying that they have the same capacity, or did I misunderstand? :confused:

Sorry I had dinner so reel in the bait :D

max input speed is 5000rpm

I agree with Mike not electrical

I would think possible bushing wear, possibly bearing and improper angle.Add some high RPM and a bounce and zing!
Snap right off at the TC

That's my guess :o:

Isn't max input rpm 4600?

Ordered a level V today from Joe, told him to build it for sled pulling.

Joe will have the next opportunity to look at it. I am going to send the trans to him for eval exactly as it is removed. If he dont find anything, that leaves two things, converter and the co-pilot. I cant image a converter doing it so.......Seems there is some talk in another thread about co-pilot issues when sled pulling..

From what I could tell the hardening of the shaft in the spline area is done probably by a chemical process and not from heat treating. But like I mentioned earlier the casting itself is soft. Being exact on the type of steel isn't really important. Making one would be though.

Well, for chemical processes, you'd be talking something like nitriding where you go to high temperature and infuse nitrogen into the steel to form a new, harder compound (Fe3N). For hundreds of years we have been doing that with carbon, and is widely known as "case hardening."

I would bet a lot that it's simply induction heat treated. Induction coils heat the skin of the metal (or all the way through if you want) and is controllable, precise, and fast. 30 seconds with the coil on at X frequency and Y kW input power and then dunk directly in oil. No atmosphere control required. Very little distortion as well, compared to high temp surface treatments. You can do internal holes as well as the exterior of shafts, etc. It doesn't get much easier than that.

Ordered a level V today from Joe, told him to build it for sled pulling.

Joe will have the next opportunity to look at it. I am going to send the trans to him for eval exactly as it is removed. If he dont find anything, that leaves two things, converter and the co-pilot. I cant image a converter doing it so.......Seems there is some talk in another thread about co-pilot issues when sled pulling..


Hope he looks at it better than he did mine and I hope you will tell us what really happened.I have a hunch it was a out of mechanical tolerance issue some where,just a hunch.We'd all appreciate a update ,TIA

I talked to the party about the Co-Pilot track issues.I cannot see how it relates when he BigD was just screaming along at 4k and it just let go.

Maybe I'm misunderstanding,did he say he wasn't getting or hunting or waiting for a upshift?Shifted and went bang,I didn't see that -

Hope he looks at it better than he did mine and I hope you will tell us what really happened.I have a hunch it was a out of mechanical tolerance issue some where,just a hunch.We'd all appreciate a update ,TIA

-

Speaking of your transmission, how's it doing for you?

Joe will have the next opportunity to look at it. I am going to send the trans to him for eval exactly as it is removed. If he dont find anything, that leaves two things, converter and the co-pilot. I cant image a converter doing it so.......Seems there is some talk in another thread about co-pilot issues when sled pulling..

Once the converter clutch gets locked in second gear the converter is pretty much over and done with things changing, so I have to agree not a converter issue. The fact that he was locked in one gear would lead one to believe an internal failure of the components that make up that gear. I did not see any comment about it trying to up or downshift prior to the failure so until its apart were all guessing.

Speaking of your transmission, how's it doing for you?


Very well I was out whipping around today as a matter of fact :D

Better the second time around?

Better the second time around?

If it happens, to be, I'll let you know first ,promise. :thumb:

Maybe I'm misunderstanding,did he say he wasn't getting or hunting or waiting for a upshift?Shifted and went bang,I didn't see that -

I was contemplating upshifting to 4th, but it started(pan was dropping) to load up , then it sounded like a burst(engine) then just seemed like it went into neutral.

if the input shaft was stronger who knows what would of busted, sometimes its good to have a weak link,

I was contemplating upshifting to 4th, but it started(pan was dropping) to load up , then it sounded like a burst(engine) then just seemed like it went into neutral.


the truck was running like a frieght train 4000rpms 3rd gear locked then it just let loose

Ya my bad :o:

Good luck with the Suncoast V.

If it happens, to be, I'll let you know first ,promise. :thumb:

I figured you'd have upgraded to the ATS Extreme while you had it out...

I figured you'd have upgraded to the ATS Extreme while you had it out...

You claimed a test on the ATS extreme. Where is it? Late coming? Maybe real late.

As soon as Clint sends it. I told him that if he had any revisions in the works I'd wait until finalized. My Suncoast V sat on the shelf for almost a year while I worked with the first ATS so I have no problem doing the same for Suncoast.

My DTT trans has a no questions asked warranty.

My DTT trans has a no questions asked warranty.

That worked out really well for Chad! :mad:

My DTT trans has a no questions asked warranty.

Until it's installed....

any succesful business that has been around will have its horror custumers,just human nature

any succesful business that has been around will have its horror custumers,just human nature

Some more than others ;)

My DTT trans has a no questions asked warranty.

So are you saying that you personally will put up a bond to insure that if a DTT-prepped Allison fails, and DTT won't stand behind it, you'll foot the bill?

If so, I'll consider testing one. If not, I'm not convinced that a DTT Allison will function correctly or will be warranteed if it fails, so I'll stick with the proven products.

So are you saying that you personally will put up a bond to insure that if a DTT-prepped Allison fails, and DTT won't stand behind it, you'll foot the bill?

If so, I'll consider testing one. If not, I'm not convinced that a DTT Allison will function correctly or will be warranteed if it fails, so I'll stick with the proven products.


92 dodge w250 4x4 clubcab..ctd enhanced with p.o.d. injectors,p.d.r hx35/16,cut fuel pin,4" exhaust, DTT trans/91% torque converter.

I do believe that he is talking about a dodge transmission here.....

Well My DTT is running like a champ so far.

any succesful business that has been around will have its horror custumers,just human nature

Owning my own business for 30 years I have learned that if I made a comitment to keep up with the latest tech and procedures and use the best parts, I could skate through repairing customers vehichles without much trouble and keep everyone happy. Every once in a while we get a problem child that stumps us for a while. We always get through it and solve the problem. It helps a lot to be honest with the customer and not b/s him and he will support your efforts. I do not call this horror. Just another tricky day.
mike

Well My DTT is running like a champ so far.

Nick, I think we're all just waiting to see it hold up to a low 12 second pass.

Oh Chad so am I. As soon as my lift pumps arrives and I install my Westers tune I'm heading to the track ASAP. My goal this season was to hit the 12's. It's frustrating being so close yet so far away.

Nick, I think we're all just waiting to see it hold up to a low 12 second pass.

What about a low 11 second pass or even a 10?

See how Mark and the no limit guys do w/ one ):h

What about a low 11 second pass or even a 10?

See how Mark and the no limit guys do w/ one ):h

Always a comedian ;)

My goal this season was to hit the 12's. It's frustrating being so close yet so far away.

I got a 15# blue bottle that says your not far away from deep 12's, dont be a weenie:grd: ):h

I got a 15# blue bottle that says your not far away from deep 12's, dont be a weenie:grd: ):h
I just got a blue bottle too but it says "don't be a puCensored y. :confused:

I have a big black bottle and it;s hard. Doesn't say a thing on it. Guess I am on my own on this one. :cool: :ro) ):h

I have a big black bottle and it;s hard. Doesn't say a thing on it. Guess I am on my own on this one. :cool: :ro) ):h

):h I won't touch that one ...as it could go too many places. :badidea: