I need help wiring my garage.

I have some electrical work to do and I know just enough to electrocute myself. I think what I want to do is simple, but I need some guidance. And please for the love of god dumb down you answers for me. I will try and lay out what I am attempting to accomplish.

My laundry room is next to my garage. There is a door that leads to the garage from the laundry room. On the wall by the door are two switches. One controls the light in the laundry room and the other controls a single light fixture that use to be in the garage. Right now the wires are capped off and not being used. I am tearing all the wood decking up in the attic above the garage so I can lay down some insulation. While I am at it I want to get the wiring repaired. I also want to install a power outlet and some lights with a switch in the attic. There is also an electric exhaust fan with some real bad wring. The switch is just dangling and the wires are just thrown where ever. I do not even think the fan works. While I am at it I want to clean that up by hard mounting the switch and routing that wire so it is not just hanging in the way. First, how do I install the two single bulb light fixtures approxemently eight to ten feet apart, the switch to control them, and one power outlet in the simplest way? I was thinking about installing the switch and the power outlet in the same box (or whatever) right by the opening that goes into the attic.

I also want to run some wires so I can have some florescent lights above the work bench I plan to build. But right now one thing at a time.

so what are you looking for? best way to run the wires? what wire to use?
first off is it legal for u to do your own wiring?
if it is you need to find out where you will be getting power from. then make sure you are installing the correct size wire.

as far as the switch in the attic and the plug thats all i would do.

now for the lighting what will your garage be used for? just parking with weekend home owner projects? or do you work on cars? i dont mean oil changes

if its just for parking i would put the lights over where you would be walking. and put more lights where your bench is going. now if u work in your garage and take them lights and junk them go out and buy some 8 foot t8 fixtures and install them.
pm me with any questions

Thw rieing I want is simple so I think I am do it legally myself. Any information on wires and the other deatils I would like to hear. Er, I mean read. My garge is tiny. It is more like a closet with a roll down door. I tear my trucks down in the driveway right out side the door. My bikes and ATV's get torn down in the garage. I am also running my air lines into the garage from my big compressor on the other side.

This is what I have to work with. The existing wiring you see is how it was when we bought the house. I plan to clean all that up. The loose capped off wires are the ones I mentioned before that use to go to an old light fixture. The blue boxes are the ones I bought today and went and installed. I tried to get a photograph to give you all an idea of the distance. But I could not get far enough back. I also wanted to illustrate where I plan to install the new outlet and switch combination. That is not how I plan to install it. I just wanted to get it close to its new location. The switches are the two I mentioned before and I posted photographs of my fuse panel. The supplies on the floor are what I have to work with so far. I did find a partial roll of 12/2 wiring so that will save some money. I also found the wire pictured with it. What is that kind of wire for? I am hoping all this will help you all help me.

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Not trying to sound like an #$% hole, but take a run to your local library and check out the books about home wiring. That may help you to understand what ya have and what ya want to achieve.

A nice little book that you can get at Lowes, Home Depot, etc is "Wiring Simplified." It's a paperback and comes out every 4-5 years to reflect the latest code requirements. Lotta good info in there. About $7-8.

Hope this help a little.

Bill

I bought a book called Wiring Complete. But it has not been all that helpfull. I thought the big colrfull pictures would help. But you already have to have a working knowledge to understand it.

First thing I would do is go get some 12/2 wire from lowes or somewhere (http://www.lowes.com/pd_70012-295-28828221_4294821905_4294937087_?productId=1098043&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_product_quantity _sold|1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Electrical%2BWire%2B_4294821905_4 294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr|0||p_p roduct_quantity_sold|1 (http://www.lowes.com/pd_70012-295-28828221_4294821905_4294937087_?productId=1098043&Ns=p_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C%7Cp_product_qu antity_sold%7C1&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl_Electrical%2BWire%2B_4294821905_4 294937087_%3FNs%3Dp_product_prd_lis_ord_nbr%7C0%7C %7Cp_product_quantity_sold%7C1)). Its like a catch all wire and pretty cheap. If you want better they make fire resistant stuff that is meant for going up walls and such to prevent the spread of fire and other things but it will cost you.

can you get new wires to your breaker box? if so.....

You can take the inner plate out of the breaker box you showed in a picture earlier. If you have breakers that are not used you can use those. If not you can just pop one out and take it with you to lowes and pick up a couple more. You can pop new ones into empty slots and pop the metal plate out of the cover you took off. (http://www.lowes.com/pd_94433-82364-BR120_0__?productId=1114091&Ntt=breaker&pl=1&currentURL=%2Fpl__0__s%3FNtt%3Dbreaker). If you have questions ask the people at the store

When you take the panel off you can follow the wires and see how they are hooked up. Each side is a 120vac panel. Coming into the panel is a 240vac line. You will be able to see where the line gets divided up into two. If you can pull the old line back through you can see how its hooked up and just repeat that.

Best thing to do is run new wires starting from the breaker box and attach them to the rafters every foot or so. You can use U-nails if you dont break the insulation on the wire. Figure out where you want your light/fan then run the wires.

As for the switch and plug I would put them in the same box. Now you need to figure out if you want the switch to turn the plug on and off or if you want the plug to have power all of the time. If you want the switch to turn the plug on and off run hook the wire from the breaker box up to the switch fist. then jump that to the plug with some short wires, and then hook the wire that goes to the light/fan to the other side of the plug. Wire the plug in first and jump that to the switch if you want it the other way.

Hope this makes sense.......

I was just at HD the other day looking at 12/2 wire by the foot. I am trying to get only what I need. I do plan to run new breakers for the new outlets and my new welder. I am still al little hazey on which ones I need though. Thanks for the brake down. I get what you are saying so hopefully I can translate it into s quality finished product.

I was just at HD the other day looking at 12/2 wire by the foot. I am trying to get only what I need. I do plan to run new breakers for the new outlets and my new welder. I am still al little hazey on which ones I need though. Thanks for the brake down. I get what you are saying so hopefully I can translate it into s quality finished product.

Is your welder a 120vac or 220vac unit?

I was just at HD the other day looking at 12/2 wire by the foot. I am trying to get only what I need. I do plan to run new breakers for the new outlets and my new welder. I am still al little hazey on which ones I need though. Thanks for the brake down. I get what you are saying so hopefully I can translate it into s quality finished product.

Get a 20 amp breaker for 12/2 wire. Black wire goes to the breaker white goes to one ground bar in the box and copper ground goes to the other bar unless your box doesn't have an isolated ground then they can both go on the same one. Run the wire to the box in your attic where the switch and receptacle will go. Its kind of tough to explain how you need to hook it up inside that box you will need to hook the whites together from the breaker panel and the one from your light hook in a 6 inch white jumper wire as well red wire nut them together, hook all the blacks together with 2 jumper wires sticking out, twist the grounds together back in the box and leave enough sticking out to hook to the recep and switch. Hook one black jumper to a brass screw on your recep the white wire will go on silver and bare copper onto the green. Then taking the remaining black wire hook to one side of the switch then you're black wire from the light onto the other side. As for your welder you'll have to see if its 220 or 110 and what it needs as far as power before we know what to tell you you need for it. If you have any questions PM if you need to talk on the phone to walk you through it just let me know I can give you my number it sounds confusing but its really not that bad.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w176/jrmsoccer32/attachment.jpg

Make it look like this

In your case, I would just hire an electrician. It will work and be up to code. Not that expensive and it will be done fast.

In your case, I would just hire an electrician. It will work and be up to code. Not that expensive and it will be done fast.

That's probably good advice if I came to your house to do that it would probably take an hour and cost less than 100 bucks depending if you had the fixtures or not

I have Miller matic 252, it takes 220 to run.

That picture makes this soooooooooooooo much easier to understand thanks man.

I plan to get some esimates form a proffessional. But I doubt I will be able to afford it.

I have Miller matic 252, it takes 220 to run.

That picture makes this soooooooooooooo much easier to understand thanks man.

I plan to get some esimates form a proffessional. But I doubt I will be able to afford it.

Call around to 3-4 places and get a rough estimate. In this economy, there is usually someone that is looking for work.

I have Miller matic 252, it takes 220 to run.

That picture makes this soooooooooooooo much easier to understand thanks man.

I plan to get some esimates form a proffessional. But I doubt I will be able to afford it.


If you don't have a 220 line ran into the garage yet you will have to run a separate line. Now you are talking about playing with live electricity unless you have a breaker outside that you can turn off the input to the house with. You may want to hire someone in that case.

If you don't have a 220 line ran into the garage yet you will have to run a separate line. Now you are talking about playing with live electricity unless you have a breaker outside that you can turn off the input to the house with. You may want to hire someone in that case.

It's called the main every breaker box has one shut it off and walla no more power.

It's call the main every breaker box has one shut it off an walla no more power.

Shit your right I was thinking of putting in a new box. The new box would have to be put in the garage. you can't just run a 220 line, well you could but if it popped it would take out the whole house. It would be better to run a 220 line to a new box in the garage and have a 220 breaker there.

I was planning on installing a new breaker and running new wireing for the welder. I just got down from taking the measurements. I will require 34 feet. My welder is buried right now. Would any one here know what kind of power outlet I will need?

the "12/2" wire you have is no good, you can not run 3 seperate wires, and the groung should not be bare like that! just buy a full roll of wire...250 feet, you will be suprised how fast it gets used up!

is the welder 220v or 110v? how many amps? is it a twist lock plug? or does it look like a plug end from a clothes dryer?

I was planning on installing a new breaker and running new wireing for the welder. I just got down from taking the measurements. I will require 34 feet. My welder is buried right now. Would any one here know what kind of power outlet I will need?

Good plan, there are like three different plugs it could be, at least there are for dryers. It would be good to dig it out and check, or wait and buy a plug once you figure it out

best idea is a sub panel in the garage.....feed it with like 60amps and then pull all your new circuits off that panel.

best idea is a sub panel in the garage.....feed it with like 60amps and then pull all your new circuits off that panel.

I would say to keep the cost down to run the 120vac lines from teh existing box and only run a new 220vac box....guess that depends on teh price of the boxes though.

If he is jumping the second box off of the first it doesn't matter if the 120vac line come from either box. The power will all be pulled through the same main breaker.

The ideal option is to run a new line from the outside box.

the "12/2" wire you have is no good, you can not run 3 seperate wires, and the groung should not be bare like that! just buy a full roll of wire...250 feet, you will be suprised how fast it gets used up!

Huh? Are you talking about for the welder? I would hope that's what you're talking about we told him we need the specs before we choose wire for the welder. All 12/2 for residential the ground is bare that's the way it is.

Huh? Are you talking about for the welder? I would hope that's what you're talking about we told him we need the specs before we choose wire for the welder. All 12/2 for residential the ground is bare that's the way it is.

I think he was talking about the picture of wire that he already has.....

I think he was talking about the picture of wire that he already has.....

Yea that's 10 gauge bare wire for the ground from breaker panel to the ground rod outside certainly not for anything in the house. That's why he's getting a roll of 12/2 snocross must have missed that part of the thread.

Edit: just looked it's not 10 it might be single strand bare 12 or something but he said he's getting new wire so it's a moot point.

tapping the main lug on the load or line side of the meter pan a second time is not code! the meter pan, is the "outside box"you are reffering to?

http://www.make-my-own-house.com/diagram-electrical-wiring.html

This site looked interesting and might help

tapping the main lug on the load or line side of the meter pan a second time is not code! the meter pan, is the "outside box"you are reffering to?

What are you referring to? I assume post 23? If that's the case I agree.

yes

#23

#23

10-4 that makes two of us

tapping the main lug on the load or line side of the meter pan a second time is not code! the meter pan, is the "outside box"you are reffering to?

Not always true. My last place had a meter pan on a pole about 30ft from teh house, there was then a breaker box right behind the house and then one inside also. I am not saying to tap into the meter pan...just didn't think that may be the only box outside. The way my last house was fully up to code.

that would be a "sub panel" and yes its code.... as long as all grounds and neutrals are seperate. by looking at the panel pictured i am pretty sure there is no sub panel.

you may have had whats called a meter main(pretty sure thats the correct term) thats pretty much for safety, so the pwr can be turned off in case of emergency.

Thanks for all the input. I was thinking because I have the space in the panel I already have I can just punch ou the slots and use it. Is that not a good idea? Also, thanks for that link it doea look very helpful.

Thanks for all the input. I was thinking because I have the space in the panel I already have I can just punch ou the slots and use it. Is that not a good idea? Also, thanks for that link it doea look very helpful.

That works fine for the 120vac stuff.....as for your welder there will have to be a new box

WOW.....there seems to be a lot of confusion in this thread.

The main box is where you have to get the power from(you'll have to knock out one "slot" for the breaker for a 110 line and two slots for the breaker for a 220 line). You can either run a bigger breaker than you need(50-60 amp) in the main panel, and run a sub-panel in the garage with everything coming out from there. OR, you can keep your 110 lines as they are, and just run a new wire for your 220v for the welder. If you do the second option, you won't need a sub-panel, but I would recommend at least a shut-off in case you need to kill the power for some reason.

As far as the plug on your welder......unless you talk to someone with the exact same one, you'll have to dig it out and see what plug it has. There are at least 3, and maybe even 4/5 different plugs that could be on it. It all depends on the amperage rating for the plug. My welder(Lincoln Mig) only draws something like 22 amps max, but the plug is a 50 amp plug for some reason.


And the last thing, and please don't take this the wrong way(no offence intended)......but you really should get someone to do this for you. If you don't know that you have to get the power from the main panel, you're just asking for problems since you don't have the knowledge for this stuff. Again, I'm not trying to be an ass, just wouldn't want to see you or your family get hurt because of something you forgot/a mistake you made. If I were you, I'd get a quote from a few different electricians, and ask them if they'd let you run all the wire, and they could just come to do the final hook-up. It should be really cheap if you do it that way.

In the meantime...check this thread I started a while back, it may answer some questions you have regarding residential wiring/welders.......
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345185
http://www.thetruckstop.us/forum/showthread.php?18684-Question-for-the-electrical-guys!

Thanks for the clarifications. I agree that I have to dig out the welder. I plan to do so as I get the garage in a more work friendly condition. Thank for the links. I will study them here shortly.

I cleared away the insulation from where all the wires are coming from the breaker box in the attic. I also look a good long look at the breakers and what they are for. One example is my garage door opener. It has a breaker just for that. Would it be a good idea to maybe tie into that power source for the lights and out let in my attic instead of running new wires and breakers?

Garage door opener can take a few amps to operate.. Outlet or light in the attic would probably be just fine.. Lights in garage need to be on another circuit.

I agree. I am now planning to use the light switch in the laundry room for the lights in the garage. All the new poer outlets will be on a new breaker.

That works fine for the 120vac stuff.....as for your welder there will have to be a new box

That could not be more wrong... He does not need a sub panel for a welder. Do you think a welding shop with 10 welders has 10 sub panels Mmmmmmm no.

If all I need is a new breaker than can handle the welder and I have room for it in my existing breaker box, why would I need a seperate breaker box? I am just trying to understand this.

If all I need is a new breaker than can handle the welder and I have room for it in my existing breaker box, why would I need a seperate breaker box? I am just trying to understand this.

You don't.......IF you don't plan on wiring everything in the garage to one sub-panel.

Scenario 1: Leave 110v stuff as is, buy new breaker for welder, run the wire, and wire the new wire/breaker into two of the open spot on your main panel.

Scenario 2: Run a bigger breaker than needed(bigger than what is required for the welder) in your main panel, run the wire to your garage, install sub-panel, and then from the sub-panel - run a 220v line to your welder, and 110v line to everything else.

The first option is what I had in mind.

Okay so I cut the breaker to my door opener and sure enough, it wil not open now. So I thought I was ready to pull the wiring and get to work getting it hooked into the new wireing. I used my hand dandy non touch tester just to varify and guess what. It tells me the wire is still hot. I do not get it. The door opener plugs into a recepticle on the ceiling and neither the light on the opener comes on nor does the opener itself. How is it with the breaker off the door opener does not work but the outlet it is plugged into is still getting power?

Okay so I cut the breaker to my door opener and sure enough, it wil not open now. So I thought I was ready to pull the wiring and get to work getting it hooked into the new wireing. I used my hand dandy non touch tester just to varify and guess what. It tells me the wire is still hot. I do not get it. The door opener plugs into a recepticle on the ceiling and neither the light on the opener comes on nor does the opener itself. How is it with the breaker off the door opener does not work but the outlet it is plugged into is still getting power?

No touch testers will pick up less than 110 voltage and sometimes even though the breaker is off they will show power. You are good to work on that outlet

Would you touch the bare wire even after the tester reads hot?

Yes if the opener doesn't work then id be just fine with it you can get a volt meter and see what it's putting out if it makes you more at ease.

Just for shits and giggles......shut of the main power and try it again. The way the wiring looks, who the hell knows what is going on in there. And before that, get a light or something and try plugging it in.

I plan to try that tomorrow when I am on it again. I hope this turns out to be something simple.

I just turned it all on. Nothing sparked or caught on fire. And... it all seems to work propperly. It feels good not to fry myself.

I just turned it all on. Nothing sparked or caught on fire. And... it all seems to work propperly. It feels good not to fry myself.

Good to hear you got it all taken care of

That was just the first part. Tomorrow I will be tacling the bird's nest of wires near my attic fan. Then I will be running the wires for the welder.

I am not going to have the money to get the new wire and other materials for my welder and additional outlets for a while. So, I want to get my three one foot florescent light fixtures and maybe that one ceiling fan installed. Or at least in place and ready to be wire in. Is there anything I should be aware of before I start making holes and attaching this stuff to my ceiling?

Make sure to put solid blocking in to hang boxes off of so none of your lights come crashing down. Nothing to serious to worry about.

I was up there yesterday and it looks as though I may have to scab in a 2x4 or two. But other than that I think it will go easy. All I have to do now is get the measurements and make sure they are centered.

These are the lights I plan to install. I had them in a shed I had about ten or so years ago. They have been on a shelf ever since I moved from there. The two two row lights worked great. I am assuming they still do. The other one looks like it is missing something inside. Can someone tell me what that is? Also, the wires inside are different colors then what I have messed with so far and the wires coming out are both white. How do I know which wire goes to what color? Also, where do I hook the ground? Can someone walk me through the wiring part of this from beginning to end? I am assuming it is pretty simple.

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I forgot to ask, what are the single boxes used for? They look as though they install differently. And, what are the small, flat and long pieces used for. I am not sure how I ended up with them but they were in my electrical stuff.

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Single boxes are for one receptacle or switch the long pieces look like they are the metal pieces that go onto a stud to keep screws from poking wires or pipes tough to tell from the picture. There should be a black Or red wire on those lights somewhere tough to tell from your pictures. All the other colors just go from the ballast to the light sockets.

How do they protect wires?

How do they protect wires?

take a better picture of them they look like the metal straps that nail onto a stud to keep screws from penetrating they go on before you put drywall on. I can't really tell from the pic.

When I get my camera back I will. I think I know what you are saying now though.

New problem. I am trying to wrap up the florescent light install. However one of them is not working. I have not wired in the third light yet but the first two are. The first one went it easy and worked right off the bat. The second one is not working. I tried to get close so you can see the orange glow coming from the end of the bulb. That tells me it is trying to work. I did switch the bulbs around to see if that was the problem and it is not. Also the first light takes a lilted longer to come on now. I pulled the junction box opened and everything appears to be installed correctly. What should I look for now? Also, let us say I did connect the wrong wires somewhere. What would the symptoms be for that?

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Hard to say, but it's most likely the ballast(as long as everything is installed properly).

I figured as much. If it was not installed properly would I still see the lights trying to come on?

you're ballast is junk any electrical supply store should have them i think lowes does they are cheap like 12-20 bucks. Just get the numbers off your's and take them with you then wire in the new one.

I just finished up doing that. It works great now.

I just finished up doing that. It works great now.

good deal its pretty straightforward and easy glad its all going well

Now I will start running wire for the fan.