I have always been a big block fan. I really like the 8.1 I have now. Maybe its a always want more power thing, but I am thinking about a Dmax to pull the 13,000# 5r a little better.


The gas mileage reminds me of pay me now or pay me later. Meaning the extra cost for the diesel will get you better mileage. I would only change for the extra torque and pulling power.


I have been reading on here for a few months, trying to convince myself I need a diesel. Reading about how easy it is to get bad fuel, and use, or not use, addatives. Fuel filters can be a problem. Injectors fail, and are very expensive when warranty runs out.


I am more confused than ever.


I have had no problems with my big block, and would like to feel I could have the same level of confidence with the diesel.


Am I reading to much into this fuel, filter, injector, problem?


Your help would be greatly appreciated.


SteveEdited by: KCSteve

I don't believe they ever have or ever will make a perfect line of trucks. Over the years I've had excellent service from gasoline powered. All that being said, I don't regret buying our current D'max. Knowing what I know now I would have installed an after market fuel filter much sooner. If making any purchase makes you uneasy, why do it? Can only say for me that if I had to purchase a new truck today my only decision would be Chevy or GMC D'max/Allison.


Jim

KCSTEVE,


If you tow a lot and put on higher mileage (over 40,000 miles a year) the diesel is THE choice. For occasional towing, mostly in-town use and lower mileage, stay with the gasser. IMHO.

Steve---It's a call that only you can make for yourself. I can tell you that I've never had a vehicle of ANY kind that I enjoyed driving more than I do this truck! It's simply awsome.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifI may have some kind of problem down the road which I'll deal with when and if it happens. Nothing made by man is perfect. For now I just smile from ear to ear everytime I crank her up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif------------Phil

if you take the right precautions, like secondary filtration, additives and proper maintenance, you can have thousands of trouble free miles. in the end, it is a personal choice. like mentioned above, lots of heavy towing will take its toll on the gasser while the diesel will only get better with time. the posts you read about injectors and other problems represent probably less than one percent of the duramax population.

Don't upgrade to a Duramax for more power, because your 8.1 has more, 340hp vs. 310hp. The Duramax just makes it at a lower rpm is all.

But, it's very easy to add 50% more power to the Duramax. Getting that much more power out of the 8.1 is much more complex and expensive.

Ski1,


__________________________________________________ ______


..."the posts you read about injectors and other problems represent probably less than one percent of the duramax population."


__________________________________________________ ______


Agreed, but that is the 1% with high mileage that's also had near 100% trouble.

Hello Captainmal,


I think is is where you wannabe. http://www.dieseltruckresource.com

The Duramax is probably a state of mind thing. Otherwise there's not much chance of justifying a $6000.00 upgrade.


That having been said, there is not much comparison to the gasser except in a few areas. I see you live in KC, so one of the prime considerations for me, the turbo, won't really show itself as quickly at your altitude. Where I live at 4500 ft. above sea level, the Duramax's will flat out run the gassers. It gets even more apparent in most of the places where I tow things, up to about 9000 ft. above sea level.


It's been awhile since I had a diesel, and I know that fuel can be a problem. But just a touch of care in station selection, filter changes and if you're inclined a secondary filter will prevent that. But there are thousands of people who drive these things and don't know or care about such mechanical items. The group here are ADDICTS for the most part, I plan on joining them SOON.....


I had diesels, went to gassers, I'm about to make the full circle and I don't anticipate any regrets.

If you are getting a new truck now it should be a no brainer (ya I know old expression, but that's what I am LOL). You will be getting the new engine LLY and it has several changes in design to solve some of the higher cost items on the old LB7. No one knows if it will end up being better, but from a repair prospect it will be cheaper to repair if that becomes necessary and maybe even allow us home shadetree mechanics to change our own injectors since they are now accessible from outside the valve covers etc.



I will probably get an '04 or an '05 DMAX myself. My '01 has been basically flawless and there are a few horror stories out there, but majority seem very pleased with their trucks.


Once you get it, come back here and let us all tell you what to add LOL ha ha ha


Go for it, you only live one and once you've tried a diesel you will be hooked. I know I was....





Edited by: Chevysrus

Agreed, but that is the 1% with high mileage that's also had near 100% trouble.








Ya, Ya, and the grass is always greener on the other sidehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Sorry I know of at least 4 Dmax's (1-2001 and 3-2002's) that have 120k + on them with no problems or complaints. They were part of the reason I chose the Dmax.

How many people you know go to forums to say, "My truck ran great this week with no problems"???

I belong to at least 8 different automotive related forums and it’s the same in all of them.

But they will come here to ask anyone if they have had a certain problem and to discuss.

I had a '96 3500 series 7.4 and it ran great! Got a whole 8-9 mgp but would boil the tires to the rims. It was a lot of fun but just killed me in MPG.

Hence the Dmax, out of the box it would leave any stock F*rd or M*rparts I came up against, but with the exhaust and Juice I usually don’t even get out of 3rd gear before they give up and back off.

I bought my Dmax for the fun factor and occasional towing, (see pictures below) and I drive 75 miles round trip to work every day. After only 8 months, I already have over 22k (trouble free) miles on her.

I live in <st1:City><st1:place>Independence</st1:place></st1:City> near you so give me a holler if you have any questions or want to see my truck.

Nathan

HD-Nate,


Thanks for the report on the four trucks you know of that do have higher mileage. When I read of them it is always third hand...someone knows someone that has one with the mileage or heard of a guy etc. Strange that I have yet to talk with anyone who HAS one with high mileage and few problems.


I praised my Duramax to the max when it had 117,000 miles on it. It literally ran ..."great with no problems". After that - kafooey.


Here's wishing you and your four acquaintances the continued best of luck.

Don't upgrade to a Duramax for more power, because your 8.1 has more, 340hp vs. 310hp. The Duramax just makes it at a lower rpm is all.






Horsepower is second to Torque. Torque is where power comes from. You cant beat the Diesel for Torque.

Uh oh....

Uh oh....








http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

[


Horsepower is second to Torque. Torque is where power comes from.

No, power comes from both torque and rpm. Look at the equation, power is literally torque times rpm.

The 8.1's power is made up of higher rpm and lower torque than the Duramax. But that doesn't make it's power somehow weaker than the Duramax's. Torque and rpm have equivalent contributions to the performance.

[


Horsepower is second to Torque. Torque is where power comes from.

No, power comes from both torque and rpm. Look at the equation, power is literally torque times rpm.

The 8.1's power is made up of higher rpm and lower torque than the Duramax. But that doesn't make it's power somehow weaker than the Duramax's. Torque and rpm have equivalent contributions to the performance.

Well, Ya, sorta.
More formally - torque is a measure of force x distance.
Power is a rate of doing work (force x distance/time).

Uh oh....





Can anyone say "Deja Vu"?........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

KC Steve,


I decided to buy the max after we bought a travel trailer last year. The Dodge Conversion Van would tow it, but it was tough at times. Never have owned a diesel before, but have worked for many years for MAST and our Powerstrokes have performed well. Did my research and believe the max is overall a better buy and Chevy has more options than the Ford or Dodge. Go for it.


HD-Nate,


How have the revo's performed? Quiet? Pick up many rocks? I am looking at the 265's for an upgrade when my truck arrives. How is the ride with the 285's? I plan on having the bars cranked 6-7 turns to level her out.

Well, Ya, sorta.
More formally - torque is a measure of force x distance.


No, force x distance = work. Apply a force of 1lb for a distance of 1 foot and you've done 1 ft-lb of work.

That's very different from torque, which is a term to describe rotational force only. Apply 1lb of force at a 1 foot radius and you have 1 ft-lb (or more correctly lb-ft) of torque. You can have torque without any movement whatsoever.

Confusing the two is a common mistake because of the similarity in the units. But they mean two different things.Edited by: ZFMax

Horsepower is for drag racin. Torque is for towin! Put a Kenne Belle blower on that 8.1 and we get beat in both categorys.

i work on d/max every day dont have the money to buy on but if i did i would have a 4 door shorty...the best dam truck out there.. just maintain it
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Horsepower is for drag racin. Torque is for towin!

The vehicle with the most horsepower always puts the most torque to the rear wheels at any given rear wheel rpm.

Horsepower made of high torque and low rpm (i.e. diesel) is great for towing because we don't have to scream the motor to make it go. It's why I'm willing to pony up several thousand dollars extra to get a diesel.

But it's not any stronger or weaker than the same amount of horsepower made with lower torque and higher rpm (i.e. a gasser). Torque and rpm make equivalent contributions to performance and in fact they can be easily interchanged with gearing. Gear something taller, torque drops and rpm rises. Gear something shorter, torque rises and rpm drops. Ultimately what matters for performance is how much of both you have to work with. That's why the term "power" is useful, it gives a more complete description than either torque or rpm by itself.

My whole point to Steve is really that if it's power he seeks, he has more with his 8.1. The fact that the Duramax's power is made up of higher torque and lower rpm doesn't change the fact that it's down 30hp on an 8.1. But then again, it's cheap and easy to take the Duramax's power beyond the 8.1.

The other thing, too, is that being turbocharged, the Duramax doesn't lose power at altitude like the 8.1 does. So if he's pulling in the mountains, it may very well have the 8.1 covered, even in stock tune.

I battled the same question. I was very happy with my 02 CC 4X4 8.1. It pulled like a mule and outside of a few warranty problems was perfect. What sold me was longevity of the engine. (hoping the injectors last too.) That and fuel mileage. Now looking back I'd be happy with either one. I find myself happy with the diesel only because I love trucks and love how she drives, sounds, and I get to putter around. The big difference in driving (bone stock trucks with 285 rubber) is responsiveness. The 8.1 was there when the peddle was pushed. The diesel just takes a minuet to get things in line then hold on charlie! Sure a aftermarket toy can fix that but I can personally say the owning my diesel has kept me from two speeding tickets. Passed through two speed traps on the way to work over the last few months and was trailing way behind the pack. They got the last few vehicles. I was able to just putter on by counting my lucky stars. With my 8.1L I was always right up there in the pack...


Last thing that made me choose the diesel was I could get into one so cheap with my GM retirees discount and all the incentives they had. It lowered my payment and with a new baby last Sept. it's helped out.


Again I'd be happy with either one. Sorry that doesn't help but maybe it does.





cmc

Well one thing is for sure I owned a 1999 Chevrolet Silverado Z71 and towed a 7000 lb tandam axle car hauler with it fully loaded a fair share of times. It was a great truck. But when you hit the interstate with that big of a load on a half ton truck you always have your foot in it. When I bought my new Duramax w/ Allison 1000 series trans Crew Cab in March of 2002, I was transformed to a Diesel fanatic almost instantly. I now have over 50,000 miles on it and tow that same trailer like it isn't even behind me. I have taken it up Jelico Mountain several times at 70 plus mph, with a fully loaded trailer with no problem. I have the K + N FIPK Generation 2 on it and it is straight piped. I love this machine. It is a marvel of modern technology. I change the fuel filter four times a year with no problems and it has been exceptional. In all honesty, it is the best truck I have ever owned. Remember Real Trucks Don't Have Spark Plugs. Drive ONhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Guys, thanks for all the great replys. I'm feeling a little more relaxed about the injector thing.


I have been around high performance engines my whole life and still have a little trouble understanding the difference between horsepower and torque. Meaning what will I feel in the seat of my pants if I increase them. I realize if you increase HP in a car it will be quicker.


I'm having trouble figuring out how to ask the question but. What might I notice pulling my 13,000# 5r with a stock diesel VS my stock big block?

Guys, thanks for all the great replys. I'm feeling a little more relaxed about the injector thing.


I have been around high performance engines my whole life and still have a little trouble understanding the difference between horsepower and torque. Meaning what will I feel in the seat of my pants if I increase them. I realize if you increase HP in a car it will be quicker.


I'm having trouble figuring out how to ask the question but. What might I notice pulling my 13,000# 5r with a stock diesel VS my stock big block?





Can't speak for the duramax but as for the dodge/cummins you would notice that the diesel pulls with much less effort and when you come to the hills the diesel just keeps pulling while the gasser will start to drag down and you will need to shift down much sooner than the diesel. I would suggest you to look around at your different dealers and see if any will let you hook a trailer to one of thier trucks and see how the pull in comparison to others. We had a dealer here that would let you pull with one of thier trucks also I would suggest you look at the others I did and bought the cummins why did I buy the cummins well because most are getting very high miles on the engine some with a million miles not saying they all will do it but I have personally seen a half a dozen or more with over 300,000 and still going strong with no oil usage and the pulling power is unbeleaveable. The other day I was called by a freind that has a chevy extended full size van we got about fifteen inches of snow and he could not make the hill to his house and slid back into the ditch I hooked on to him and in high range 4x4 I pulled him out of the ditch without even touching the throttle just idled up the hill pulling him out. The torque of these engines just amazes me. Try them all do your research then make your decision but as far as diesel vs gas I think any of the diesels are better than the gassers .

I'm in a similar situation - much of the same reasoning as KCSteve debating weather to switch from gas to diesel. Most everything I hear about the Durmax/Allison combination is great ... having never owned a diesel, I just want to be sure there aren't other factors that would make a gas engine better ...

so as not to hijack a thread, I posted my thoughts in a separate thread (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4251&PN=1)