I have a 2007 classic ext cab 4x4 2500 hd diesel-allison. I am looking at a 2007 Montana Big Sky 5th wheel. Trailer weights 12,595lbs dry, 15,500 or more loaded. Hitch weight 2105 dry and close to 3000 loaded.Am I getting to much trailer for the 2500. I have ride rite air springs on the truck. I know it will pull it ok I am wonderning about the weight. Checked on Montana owners forum and plenty of people pulling close to same weights with 2/3 ton trucks but still wonder about it.
Thanks for any and all advice

You are going to be over your GVWR when your 5th wheel is attached. Your truck will pull it, but you won't be legal. If you are in a wreck, your insurance company would deny coverage IF they could prove you were over weight. Truck will probably pull the Montana just fine with a few suspension mods, and you may never have a problem. I would consider a smaller/lighter trailer for your current truck, or, a different truck with more weight capacity if you want the Montana.

With my 5er attached to the truck on the last trip, I weighed the truck as I was returning home and it was 10,125 lbs with only 1/2 tank of fuel. I have the same problem, and risks, you are about to have.

Always assume loaded weights on the trailer - nobody ever pulls one at the stated "Empty" weight except for the first time they leave the dealership with it when it's new...and that stated empty weight includes NONE of the accessories (such as A/C, options added to the base model, even empty LP cylinders) so you will NEVER get it down to that sort of weight.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure you are going to be grossly over some weights, if not several - I think the main one you're going to have issues with is your rear axle GAWR - 3000# of Pin weight is a lot for a 2500 SRW.

GCWR will eventually be brought up, but isn't a legally enforceable figure. GRVW is adjustable in most states so you can technically be legal just by registering your truck heavier so long as you can stay legal on axle weights.

The jury still out on the legality issues of being over your GVWR. It depends on region, but isn't as big of a problem as many would make you believe. IMHO it's a misnomer to say that an insurance company will deny or somehow pull coverage should you be involved in an accident that they can prove you were over one of your figures. They WILL pay, the are legally required to do so. That's not to say they won't immediately cancel your insurance afterwards, or perhaps even decide to drag you to court after the fact, but it's not exactly legit to suggest that an insurance company can simply leave you out to dry should you find yourself 1 Pound over a placarded figure, either.

Anyhow, IMHO, that's way too much trailer for your truck. As mentioned, it'll pull it (and the Allison/Duramax combo will probably even do a great job of it), but that doesn't mean it's a wise idea.

Scuba Dude, do the math real quick. If your CGVWR is 22,000 lbs...you subtract the GVWR of your truck and that will give you what you CAN tow and be within your limits from the manufacturer...but that is only for the GCVWR...like stated above that does not cover you on the actual AXLE limits. I would encourage you to put the trailer on a scale to get the actual no joke weight...those sticker often do not include options installed on the trailer it's more of a skeleton weight. If you roll your truck over a scale with the a full tank of fuel and add in the weight of your normal road trip passengar configuration you will know what kind of weight you actually have to play with. Those actual numbers are key when you start gettign close to your manufacturers limitations on weight ratings. I pull a 38 ft Fifth wheel toy hauler with the same truck you have but I have a crew cab.....the sticker says my trailer is 15,000 GVWR....but i have yet to get it that heavy with all my stuff in it for a trip. CHECK YOUR ACTAUL WEIGHTS before you make the decision. OH and don't get caught up in the DUALLY thought...the Chevy dually really doesn't gain you that much over the 3/4 ton

That's too much weight and bulk for a 3/4 ton, especially if it's a short bed.
It's true, a lot of people do it, but a lot of people smoke too. After they get lung cancer, they wish they hadn't.

OH and don't get caught up in the DUALLY thought...the Chevy dually really doesn't gain you that much over the 3/4 ton
What??????
What about pin weight. I'll show you mine. Let's see what your sticker says....
http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/Hicksra/tag.jpg

I have a 2007 classic ext cab 4x4 2500 hd diesel-allison. I am looking at a 2007 Montana Big Sky 5th wheel. Trailer weights 12,595lbs dry, 15,500 or more loaded. Hitch weight 2105 dry and close to 3000 loaded.Am I getting to much trailer for the 2500. I have ride rite air springs on the truck. I know it will pull it ok I am wonderning about the weight. Checked on Montana owners forum and plenty of people pulling close to same weights with 2/3 ton trucks but still wonder about it.
Thanks for any and all advice

Greatest problem is going to be keeping the rear axle weight at or below the stock tire rating. Stock tires -LT245/75R16 LRE gives you 3042 per tire capacity or 6084 Axle Capacity.

Always calculate "what if's" based on trailer GVWR to avoid surprises at the first scale.:)

what comes stock on a 2500hd 65psi max or 80 psi max?

Just going to have the dealer let you hook up to the new trailer, and drag it across a scale BEFORE you sign on the dotted line.

My unit (pictured) puts the truck rear axle at or near the tire limit on the door sticker:mad:. Yes the truck & trailer only weighed 18,000 empty, but we run about 21,500 loaded for a winter vacation. Never seem to get the trailer tires overloaded, but the truck is over. If I load the trailer basement, then I have to put water in the rear grey tank to balance it so the pin weight isn't to heavy. Always a challenge. Same game I play when driving over the road.

Insurance coverage... depends on the jurisdiction you are in, and the insurance laws for that state/province. Canada likely covers the first over weight related accident. Some states may allow the insurance to not pay out for over weight problems. Just like DUI accidents.

what comes stock on a 2500hd 65psi max or 80 psi max?

Load range E tires are 80 PSI. Mine is a 2008 and that's what they come with.

what comes stock on a 2500hd 65psi max or 80 psi max?
2006 it would be LT245/75R16 LRE an 80 psi max tire. Look at the load rating sticker on the drivers door frame to verify.

Later years could have 17' wheels and tires. 2011 has changed again.

Upgrading to 265/75/16 E tires gives you an additional 750+- lbs of tire capacity safety. When my 30' 5er is fully loaded with additional water and fuel, I am right at 7000 lbs on my rear axle and 4300 on my front, a bit overloaded for a 9200 gvw truck, but it handles it fine.

As far as legality goes, in Wyoming you can only tow up to 26001 lbs with a class C license. That rating isn't the actual weight of your rig, but the total of the GVW on the placards of the tow vehicle and trailer. So if the tow vehicle has a GVW of 9200 and the trailer is 15000 you are under 26000 and legal with a class C license. But if you happen to have a dually with a 13000 gvw and the same 15000 gvw trailer, you have too much weight for your class C license and a State Trooper can and will give you a large citation and make you park the trailer until you have the proper license. THIS IS A FACT as my running mate is a State Trooper that enforces these laws often!

Upgrading to 265/75/16 E tires gives you an additional 750+- lbs of tire capacity safety. When my 30' 5er is fully loaded with additional water and fuel, I am right at 7000 lbs on my rear axle and 4300 on my front, a bit overloaded for a 9200 gvw truck, but it handles it fine.


Problem is, your stock 6.5" wheels are not wide enough to safely/legally accommodate a 265 tire. And they're only rated for 3450 lbs IIRC, so your wheels are overloaded as well. What does your state trooper friend say about that?

Scuba Dude, check the weight sticker on the inside cabinet near the kitchen sink. This will give you the actual weight (UVW) of the rig as it left the factory. Weights listed in brochures may not include "accessories" like A/C. The sticker will also include the GVW rating of the rig, which is the UVW plus the CCC (cargo carrying capacity). The better the rig, the better the CCC and thus the higher the GVW. I used to sell rv's for a living (ugh) and it used to piss me off when an old cogger would walk in, go right to the sticker, read the GVWR and say, "Too heavy, lets go Martha."

I agree with the previous poster, do the math. Do you really think you will put 3,000 lbs of stuff into that 5th wheel? If so, you better get a bigger truck or a lighter 5th. But be careful, lighter 5th wheels often have lower CCC and if you end up putting 3,000 of crap into a lighter 5th wheel you may be over the GVW of the trailer.

According to the Trailer Life tow "Guide" (emphasis on guide) your truck should handle 15,400 lbs of 5th wheel.

Whatever you buy, it's a good idea to periodically weigh your rig, as mentioned earlier.

Also mentioned earlier, pulling won't be the problem, stopping will, and always is. I recommend a good braker controller (Prodigy used to be the hot product a few years back) and I also recommend installing some form of exhaust/turbo/engine braking. It will give you tremendous peace of mind and control.

I hope this helped, good luck and have fun. Those Big Sky's sure are nice.

it used to piss me off when an old cogger would walk in, go right to the sticker, read the GVWR and say, "Too heavy, lets go Martha."

Perhaps I'm just interpreting what you wrote incorrectly, but why is this?

The placarded GVWR of the trailer is the weight that the trailer should never actually surpass if loaded correctly...and based on lots of RV experience, most people haul around enough crap in their trailers that they are usually near or at the GVWR most of the time.

Therefore, my thought is that it's a very important figure to look at right out of the gate. UVW has little relevance to what the trailer can/will actually weigh once you put all your stuff in it, and if you're relying on UVW to determine if you can/can't buy a certain model of trailer out of the gate, chances are good you're going to eventually end up overloaded down the road once you creep towards that GVWR number.

Scuba Dude, do the math real quick. If your CGVWR is 22,000 lbs...you subtract the GVWR of your truck and that will give you what you CAN tow and be within your limits from the manufacturer...but that is only for the GCVWR...like stated above that does not cover you on the actual AXLE limits. I would encourage you to put the trailer on a scale to get the actual no joke weight...those sticker often do not include options installed on the trailer it's more of a skeleton weight. If you roll your truck over a scale with the a full tank of fuel and add in the weight of your normal road trip passengar configuration you will know what kind of weight you actually have to play with. Those actual numbers are key when you start gettign close to your manufacturers limitations on weight ratings. I pull a 38 ft Fifth wheel toy hauler with the same truck you have but I have a crew cab.....the sticker says my trailer is 15,000 GVWR....but i have yet to get it that heavy with all my stuff in it for a trip. CHECK YOUR ACTAUL WEIGHTS before you make the decision. OH and don't get caught up in the DUALLY thought...the Chevy dually really doesn't gain you that much over the 3/4 ton

Good information except the last sentence. Look at the Tire and Loading Information sticker on the driver's side of the frame. The dually picks up an average of a ton in cargo capability over a 3/4 ton..my sticker says 4,257 lbs...double what the average 3/4 can haul.

BTW...I just sold a Montana 3400RL...it was way too much for a 3/4 ton...a Big Sky is even heavier.

...

The placarded GVWR of the trailer is the weight that the trailer should never actually surpass if loaded correctly...

Therefore, my thought is that it's a very important figure to look at right out of the gate. UVW has little relevance to what the trailer can/will actually weigh once you put all your stuff in it, and if you're relying on UVW to determine if you can/can't buy a certain model of trailer out of the gate, chances are good you're going to eventually end up overloaded down the road once you creep towards that GVWR number.

Yep, GVWR is the first thing I check once I find a floor plan that I like.

Just to make sure you are clear on a few things... Dry weight is from the factory unloaded. The weight you listed as 'loaded' is really the maximum weight rating of the trailer, and may or may not be representative of what yours will weigh loaded. FWIW, my trailer (Montana 3700RL) has never reached the recommended max, even with the water tank full. Also, pin weights are 'fuzzy'. The dry pin weight should be pretty accurate, but the loaded pin weight is dependent on how it's loaded. The axles act like a fulcrum, so weight added to the rear of the trailer will actually take weight off of the pin.

As for the truck's capabilities, you can meet the pin weight easily by adding the springs from a 3500 and changing to "E" rated tires if you don't have them already. Your truck's weight should be around 7,600 lbs. Subtract that from 22,000 and you have 14,400 lbs of weight rating left, leaving you with a potential of being 1,100 lbs overweight. As others have stated, the truck will pull it just fine because the drive train between the 3/4 and 1 tons are identical.

BTW: You might want to look on the Montana Owners forum website. You have to join, but it's free. http://montanaadministrator.forumco.com/

Thanks OLD SOLDIER...The thing I was going off of is basic GVWR for the dually versus the 3/4 ton. Curb weight on the dually is 6552 lbs GVWR is 11400LBS leaving payload of 4848. The 3/4 ton curb weight is 4924 lbs with a GVWR of 9200 lbs that leaves 4658 payload. The original question was regarding pin weight and stuff like that so to me 266lbs isn't much of a differnece when you are dealing with over 2700 lbs of potential pin weight....if you are like me and have a family of 4 with an 85 lb Labrador and a bunch of tools and what not the room for MAX payload get's eaten up quick but the dually doen't gain you much at all in that department. That was what I was saying in my post. Now that being said the tire sticker is basicly worthless unless you plan to tow with the stock pizza cutters that GM puts on these trucks. First thing I did was upgrade to "E" rated tires to support all that weight while towing. The sticker goes out the window when you do that.

Thanks OLD SOLDIER...The thing I was going off of is basic GVWR for the dually versus the 3/4 ton. Curb weight on the dually is 6552 lbs GVWR is 11400LBS leaving payload of 4848. The 3/4 ton curb weight is 4924 lbs with a GVWR of 9200 lbs that leaves 4658 payload. The original question was regarding pin weight and stuff like that so to me 266lbs isn't much of a differnece when you are dealing with over 2700 lbs of potential pin weight....if you are like me and have a family of 4 with an 85 lb Labrador and a bunch of tools and what not the room for MAX payload get's eaten up quick but the dually doen't gain you much at all in that department. That was what I was saying in my post. Now that being said the tire sticker is basicly worthless unless you plan to tow with the stock pizza cutters that GM puts on these trucks. First thing I did was upgrade to "E" rated tires to support all that weight while towing. The sticker goes out the window when you do that.

Don't know where you are getting the numbers for your truck. A 3/4 ton D/A 4 x 4 will have about 2,300# of cargo capacity. Your curb weight is around 7,000...look at the sticker noted above...even a gasser weighs more than 4,924.

As far as legality goes, in Wyoming you can only tow up to 26001 lbs with a class C license. That rating isn't the actual weight of your rig, but the total of the GVW on the placards of the tow vehicle and trailer. So if the tow vehicle has a GVW of 9200 and the trailer is 15000 you are under 26000 and legal with a class C license. But if you happen to have a dually with a 13000 gvw and the same 15000 gvw trailer, you have too much weight for your class C license and a State Trooper can and will give you a large citation and make you park the trailer until you have the proper license. THIS IS A FACT as my running mate is a State Trooper that enforces these laws often!

And I find it REAL interesting, when that State Trooper has your unit on the scales, how people try to explain the brochure weight, curb weight, the empty weight, along with any other weight number they can think of and the supposed CCC weight....then the Trooper looks at the GVWR for the truck and the trailer, looks at the scale :D and hands you the ticket:( then tells you to park it and split. The ticket is cheap compared to the wrecker/rental truck to pull the trailer thru the state, or the price of a bigger truck/licence to pull that trailer in state.

For the record, the scaled weights of the pictured unit loaded for three season 5 months use weights: Front axle 4000, Drives 6000, and trailer tandem 12000. The placard is 9200 on the truck ( I'm over weight there ), and 13,800 on the trailer. I do have a CDL, still learning, but with 40+ years of CDL, I have learned a few things from experience;)