Well I've broke or bent something for the third and final time,god for bid actually using my truck as,well, a truck! Last night at the local pulls I managed to break my left outer CV joint,split the boot on the right,bent both outer heim joints on the Cognito tie rods,and bent my Cognito steering supports. I just went to the trouble and expense of removing my 8" lift and installing $1800 worth of Cognito parts(dual shocks,Bilstiens,HD tie rods,upper control arms,and center link supports) and some 305/70/16 Pro Comp Extremes,also regeared back to stock.I even had the torsion bars dropped about 2 inches in the front,not quite stock height,but almost. The truck pulled great until front end death wobble set in at the 150ft mark and then all the above parts were damaged within 2 seconds of each other. I'm tired of throwing good money after bad to just be a diappointed loser(ended up second to last out of 32 trucks in my class). I'm finally going to pony up and put a Dana 60 under my truck with enough lift to clear 35's and never look back. Anybody want some slightly used Cognito parts?BTW,there was another Dmax in line behind me to pull,after I broke he or she got out of line and parked it,opting not to pull.

lemme know the $$$$$$$ for the parts and what is still good.......

Thanks.......you have a PM too...........;)

T:D NY
.
.
.

This is exactly why it's good if Chevy does go back to SFA.Post pic's as you build.Are you only going with an ORU kit or building your own?

Guys, I am gonna get flamed here, but I don't think these trucks were designed with doing truck pulls in 4wd running big boost (hp and torque) from aftermarket in mind. If you are putting your truck through that mind of enviroment and break parts, can you really feel the truck itself let you down?

lemme know the $$$$$$$ for the parts and what is still good.......

Thanks.......you have a PM too...........;)

T:D NY
.
.
.

I'm going to order replacement parts on Monday so I can drive the truck until I round up all my conversion parts. I'll have upper control arms,shock hoops,green keys,and 4 front,two rear Bilstiens for sale. I'll price them out tomorrow.

This is exactly why it's good if Chevy does go back to SFA.Post pic's as you build.Are you only going with an ORU kit or building your own?

I'm actually using one of Fabritech's new kits. Much nicer stuff and much nicer people. ORU wouldn't even answer my questions,guess they don't need anymore money.I'll post as many pics as possible,just bought a new camera today.

Guys, I am gonna get flamed here, but I don't think these trucks were designed with doing truck pulls in 4wd running big boost (hp and torque) from aftermarket in mind. If you are putting your truck through that mind of enviroment and break parts, can you really feel the truck itself let you down?

My answer is yes. More so after I "fixed" all the weak links in the front and was running what I thought to be a good set-up.

what 8" lift did you remove I am interested in it and your bilstiens too, let me know when you have a price figured. Thx!

Guys, I am gonna get flamed here, but I don't think these trucks were designed with doing truck pulls in 4wd running big boost (hp and torque) from aftermarket in mind. If you are putting your truck through that mind of enviroment and break parts, can you really feel the truck itself let you down?

Funny how the Fords and Dodges don't have these problems... SFA might be ok for 90% of the owners that never actually WORK their trucks, but that doesn't mean the other 10% should have to deal with unreliable, poorly designed junk for suspension.

Ah but they sure do ride nice :lol: ;) :stirthepo

c'mon guys give me a break.......there are alot of guys running alot of power with very minimal breakage.

what 8" lift did you remove I am interested in it and your bilstiens too, let me know when you have a price figured. Thx!

The lift was a Fabtech,but it has been sold. Bilstiens are 5100 series and are for a truck with 0-3" lift.

c'mon guys give me a break.......there are alot of guys running alot of power with very minimal breakage.

I seem to be the unlucky bastard who broke everything at once. Too much power and traction combined with an overgrown S10 front suspension IMO.

Guys, I am gonna get flamed here, but I don't think these trucks were designed with doing truck pulls in 4wd running big boost (hp and torque) from aftermarket in mind. If you are putting your truck through that mind of enviroment and break parts, can you really feel the truck itself let you down?

I agree with you, GM built these trucks with on road work in mind with occasional off road use. If your gonna thrash it and modify it problems are expected. If your gonna pull with it going solid front is prob a very wise decision.

I agree with you, GM built these trucks with on road work in mind with occasional off road use. If your gonna thrash it and modify it problems are expected. If your gonna pull with it going solid front is prob a very wise decision.

My main b!tch is that I bought a heavy duty 3/4 ton "truck" with the intent of using it like a truck. I'm not trying to "trash it",just use it as intended. If a wanted a "road" truck I would of bought a 2wd. The truck pulling may have been a little extreme,but the two times it broke before were on very mild trail rides,probably much less abusive than most company trucks ever see on the job site. I'm just very disappointed in my return for a rather large investment.:(

Not to flame or throw rocks, Bill, but I've got to agree that you are expecting too much outside the design of the front end for high performance additions, lift kits, oversize tires and pulling. If that's your intent or definition of "truck" you should have shopped accordingly and purchased an SFA truck or maybe even a medium duty chassis. I feel your pain, but you've got to admit that you're really going where the front end was not designed to go. An Escalade is a significant cash investment, too, but are you going to buy one and complain that it won't haul much manure?

Yep, gotta agree... too much being asked of a "truck". I'll never sled pull with my truck or do 4x4 drag starts with heavy boost. Do I think Chevy let me down? No, Chevy offered a better ride, there are other trucks with solid axles, do those owners feel let down when the front end shakes and shimeys? (their ARE down sides to solid axles too!!)
Stock is not meant for races, drags, pulls, etc. I know a lot of guys with rock crawlers, none of them are stock jeeps off the shelf. They do a lot of work and STILL break stuff. That is why they all stick to the basic rule, don't mosh what you drive. (meaning, they all beat their off road rigs but then put them on a trailer and enjoy the ride home in their comfy new trucks) If it broke, no worries... that is why it comes and goes from the event on a trailer.
Just my thoughts... sucks that you did all that work and are still breaking stuff.
:ro)

I guess I didn't give all the details. The times it broke before it was mostly stock and far from abused. I've beat on Rangers and S10s more than I have this thing with no problems. I just feel the IFS is a good design as far as handling and ride,but a little short in the strength department. I know what I do may be a little extreme compared to most other HD owners,but I can't bring myself to buy a Furd or Dodge. This is why I'm going solid axle. Also what do you think would happen if I was trying to pull somebody out of a bad situation and the truck broke,or pulling my trailer up a muddy hill in 4wd and it broke. I don't feel I'm that far outside the intended use of the truck,I even tried to "fix" the "weak links " in the front-end so it would take a little more abuse. What I'm trying to do with all of this is find people which have had similar problems so I don't feel so bad about breaking mine and then moving on to a solid axle,I'm not trying to start any fights or flame anybody.

Well said.

BIGBLOCKBILL,has the right idea.A truck is meant to be used like a truck.We're not talking abuse even though some of us might when we wheel' them.They sure shouldn't break when pulling.I've jumped my IFS trucks in stock form but never very high.They aren't meant to use hard,only to drive on the street.I plan to install a strait axel in mine as well.I'm eager to see how BigBlockBills turns out.

Bill,

Sorry to hijack the thread. How do you "remove" the lift and get back to stock height. There is a fair amount of cutting involved when installing the lift.

Thanks
Mike

Bill,

Sorry to hijack the thread. How do you "remove" the lift and get back to stock height. There is a fair amount of cutting involved when installing the lift.

Thanks
Mike

Not on a "spindle" kit. You only cut one mount off the frame for the front diff and one mount from the top of the diff itself. I just swapped front diffs with the guy that bought my lift and welded his old frame mount back onto my truck. On the other hand there is alot of cutting on a "bracket" kit,like a Pro-Comp 6".
Thanks,Bill

Good luck on the redesign of the front suspension. I have heard of others doing the same thing.
But I am going to side with the others on these trucks (even the competitors) are not designed to be used the way some of us do on this forum.
The last time I looked the Ranger and S10 were not solid axles. And being an owner of Bronco II once, I don't see how the front ends on those vehicles would hold up better then our 2500HD's.
Maybe the front end on your HD was getting abuse and stress cracking on other types of driving and the "Staw that broke the camels back" persay was the times it broke.
GM has had this set up for over 15 years while the others stayed with the solid set up. People like you that go above and beyond to make they set up better may make GM change their minds in designing their trucks if they see a marketable value in it. But as mentioned before the majority want a vehicle that drives nice, and most owners don't even take it off road and I am talking about no roads not dirt roads.

I guess I didn't give all the details. The times it broke before it was mostly stock and far from abused. I've beat on Rangers and S10s more than I have this thing with no problems. I just feel the IFS is a good design as far as handling and ride,but a little short in the strength department. I know what I do may be a little extreme compared to most other HD owners,but I can't bring myself to buy a Furd or Dodge. This is why I'm going solid axle. Also what do you think would happen if I was trying to pull somebody out of a bad situation and the truck broke,or pulling my trailer up a muddy hill in 4wd and it broke. I don't feel I'm that far outside the intended use of the truck,I even tried to "fix" the "weak links " in the front-end so it would take a little more abuse. What I'm trying to do with all of this is find people which have had similar problems so I don't feel so bad about breaking mine and then moving on to a solid axle,I'm not trying to start any fights or flame anybody.

Perhaps a bad setup or unlucky. It is not uncommon for a correctly prepped Dmax front suspension to handle 600HP in sled pulls and drags.

Go ahead with the straight axle. Hopefully you don't find that they are not bulletproof either. Seems they sell a lot of "hop up" parts for them. Hmmm...

I agree that these trucks could have been designed with a much stronger IFS setup. I have replaced so many ball joints, tie rod ends, bushings, CV boots, and wheel bearing assemblies, pitman arms, idler arms, and tires that sometimes I want a straight axle too. But then I remember how they drive and ride. If they could have just added a little more bulk to what we already have, I think we would have something equal to the rest of the truck. My truck just has a little 6.5, I can just imagine what a built Duramax does to the front end. I guess there's always a compromise.

akdiesel,
My comment about S10s and Rangers was not about them being solid axle,but to show that with a proportionatly sized IFS front end they hold up just fine,even with V8 power and slightly larger tires.Yes stuff wears out and breaks,but my truck only has 17,000 miles on it and still looks like new inside and out.I've only had it off the "pavement" 4 times and it broke 3 of those.

McRat,
That is the whole point of this thread,I'm bummed because I felt like the only guy in the world who did so much front end damage at one time. Other people abuse theirs with more HP and don't seem to break parts.

I feel good about the Dana 60 swap(other than the expense). I've owned and thrashed 9 different trucks with Dana 60 fronts and never had an axle related failure,one truck even has a 550hp 468 BBC and 3500 stall converter with full spools front and rear and it hasn't broken yet.

Hey bill what was the cost from fabritech? I was looking at ORU's stuff, and thier SFA kit is almost $2000. Seems high. I called full throttle, and their kit will be a little more for the same stuff. If all you got from them was the hanger brackets it would be about 700. I have been seriously considering doing a SFA. My only problem is having a stinking -:t ford part on my truck, and having stupid locking hubs... I use my 4wd a several times a week on the farm and it's damn nice being able to just go in and out of 4wd when you hit the muddy spot. Could just leave the hubs in all the time I suppose... Also I would have to find an axle, but I doubt that will be really hard...

Hey bill what was the cost from fabritech? I was looking at ORU's stuff, and thier SFA kit is almost $2000. Seems high. I called full throttle, and their kit will be a little more for the same stuff. If all you got from them was the hanger brackets it would be about 700. I have been seriously considering doing a SFA. My only problem is having a stinking -:t ford part on my truck, and having stupid locking hubs... I use my 4wd a several times a week on the farm and it's damn nice being able to just go in and out of 4wd when you hit the muddy spot. Could just leave the hubs in all the time I suppose... Also I would have to find an axle, but I doubt that will be really hard...

The Fabritech with all the options,dual shock hoops,sway bar,transfer case slip yoke eliminator,spring mounts,panhard bar,crossover steering,ect(alot of which ORU charges extra for) should come in under $3000. All I have to supply is the axle(78-78 Furd high pinion 60),73-87 Chevy front springs, and a front driveshaft. I think I can pull the whole thing off for less than $5000 including Dedenbear knuckles,some sort of traction device,and gears front and rear. I'm also going to use Chevy outers so it won't be so bad,trying to minimize the stinkin Furd parts.:D

Yeah the ORU and FT kit don't include the crossover steering, swaybar or SYE... I asked FTS just for ****s and giggles what the coilover setup shown on their site would cost... Definately a ****, not a giggle.... 18k he said, with the axle...

Yeah the ORU and FT kit don't include the crossover steering, swaybar or SYE... I asked FTS just for ****s and giggles what the coilover setup shown on their site would cost... Definately a ****, not a giggle.... 18k he said, with the axle...

I think I have that much credit on my card:D . I'm going to finalize my order with Fabritech tomorrow so I'll let you know the total damage.

I got the order placed today and everything is in the works,it will take 3-4 weeks for delivery. Eric said they are a little behind and build their kits on a as needed basis. All my parts including,sway bar,panhard bar,traction bars,slip yoke eliminator,and front CV joint plus the basic kit came to just over $3500. All I have to supply are the front springs,brake lines,axle,and driveshaft slip yoke and lower joint.I think I can still make it for under $5000 including the traction bars. Very nice guy(Eric) BTW. Talked to him 3 times today,at least 1/2 hour each time,couldn't ask for a more helpful guy.

I have a few Ford dana 60's in my yard if you are looking for one.

PM sent.

With their kit do you still have to keep your 4wd actuater in the engine compartment somewhere of do they have a wiring thing to fix that? I would think you could maybe cross the right wires so it will show up right on the dash...

So you think you would just leave the hubs in most of the time when not cruising on the highway? I used to do that sometimes on my 76 GMC. Part of the reason I was thinking about this is driving on the farm I end up needing 4wd a lot, so being able to shift in and out of 4wd is nice. Also in the winter when I see any icy patch in a curvy road I sometimes shift in then...

Censored I can't post into this thread without going advanced and adding asmilie.. Odd.

I got the order placed today and everything is in the works,it will take 3-4 weeks for delivery. Eric said they are a little behind and build their kits on a as needed basis. All my parts including,sway bar,panhard bar,traction bars,slip yoke eliminator,and front CV joint plus the basic kit came to just over $3500. All I have to supply are the front springs,brake lines,axle,and driveshaft slip yoke and lower joint.I think I can still make it for under $5000 including the traction bars. Very nice guy(Eric) BTW. Talked to him 3 times today,at least 1/2 hour each time,couldn't ask for a more helpful guy.


Are you going to do a write up on this with alot pics for us please?

Bigblockbill....sorry to hear about your ORU experience. I can tell you that they just converted my truck and did an oustanding job. Everything was done in a very professional manner. Try talking to "chris" there, if you are serious he is the guy to contact. I use my truck in a different manner, but hvaing the same problems and failures as you....

With their kit do you still have to keep your 4wd actuater in the engine compartment somewhere of do they have a wiring thing to fix that? I would think you could maybe cross the right wires so it will show up right on the dash...

So you think you would just leave the hubs in most of the time when not cruising on the highway? I used to do that sometimes on my 76 GMC. Part of the reason I was thinking about this is driving on the farm I end up needing 4wd a lot, so being able to shift in and out of 4wd is nice. Also in the winter when I see any icy patch in a curvy road I sometimes shift in then...

Censored I can't post into this thread without going advanced and adding asmilie.. Odd.

Fabritech told me to mount the actuator to the frame somewhere and I won't have any issues. I might try to cross some wires to kill the light thoough and remove the actuator.

I won't be able to leave my hubs locked because I'll be running some sort of traction device. If it was open or a selectable locker I would run them locked in.

Are you going to do a write up on this with alot pics for us please?

I'll do the best I can,probably won't start for a few weeks. My kit won't ship for about three more weeks.

Bigblockbill....sorry to hear about your ORU experience. I can tell you that they just converted my truck and did an oustanding job. Everything was done in a very professional manner. Try talking to "chris" there, if you are serious he is the guy to contact. I use my truck in a different manner, but hvaing the same problems and failures as you....

Thanks for the help,but my kit is already ordered.If I need something in the future I'll try giving Chris a call. Glad to hear everything went smooth on your truck.BTW Fabritech also included free shipping,can't beat that!

I'm still confused on how the hell all that stuff broke. I know your doing 4 wheel sled pulls, but you have an 8.1 with a predator. The parts you destroyed would indicate that there was a ton of power going through the front end, or REALLY poorly designed parts. There are tons of guys on here running much higher levels of power doing much worse things to their trucks and they are holding together far better.

Maybe i'm just missing something? :idea:

This is on my Duramax,not my 8.1. In the beginning of the thread I talked about removing my Fabtech lift so I could pull with the truck. Guess I need to update my sig.

even so DMAX's have been subjected to far more abuse, and lived to tell about it. I just can't grasp why/how so many parts broke.

Hey bill what was the cost from fabritech? I was looking at ORU's stuff, and thier SFA kit is almost $2000. Seems high. I called full throttle, and their kit will be a little more for the same stuff. If all you got from them was the hanger brackets it would be about 700. I have been seriously considering doing a SFA. My only problem is having a stinking -:t ford part on my truck, and having stupid locking hubs... I use my 4wd a several times a week on the farm and it's damn nice being able to just go in and out of 4wd when you hit the muddy spot. Could just leave the hubs in all the time I suppose... Also I would have to find an axle, but I doubt that will be really hard...

The way I look at it is not that its a Ford axle but a Dana axle, but im with you on the locking hubs issue. I rarely use 4WD and the strength makes it worth it to me.

This is on my Duramax,not my 8.1. In the beginning of the thread I talked about removing my Fabtech lift so I could pull with the truck. Guess I need to update my sig.

Hey Bigblockbill, great thread--I will be following it closely to see your results. I am also going to do a solid axle conversion using a Dana 60 from a 79 F-350(kingpin style). Are you using an older or newer axle? Why I ask is related to abs, are you going to try to retain abs or just unplug the bulb. I hear Danatrac makes a kit for the abs but not sure if it can be installed on an older axle or not. Was wondering if you had looked into this or not. I dont really even think the abs will work properly with the size tires I am going to use but safety inspection laws are very strict where I live and wanna comply as much as possible.

even so DMAX's have been subjected to far more abuse, and lived to tell about it. I just can't grasp why/how so many parts broke.

I think that is my main complaint,I can't believe it broke so easily either compared to other trucks that have been beat on even harder than mine..I think part of it may have been caused by the Edge J/A. It does not seem to come on very smooth,I think the instant shock on the drivetrain when combined with the sled weight may have overloaded the drivetrain. I just ordered a VA box,so we'll shortly see if it's any smoother.My tires are another concern,almost new Pro Comp XT's,they may have gotten to much traction. All the people that were watching me said the truck never spun,even after the boost came up.Anyway I'm tired of spending money looking for answers,I pretty sure SFA will be the fix.

DST,
I'm not going to worry about the ABS,I'm not a big fan. When I had 37's on my truck before the ABS acted really weird under hard braking.I'm going to be using a 78-79 HP 60 to try and keep cost down,so I don't think working front ABS is an option anyway.

I'll take IFS and a few broken parts because it helps you stop faster then SFA

It would be nice to find a way to unplug that Censored ABS light,so I could unplug the system.I hate the way it worked on my 97 2500 4x4 and I unpluged it and lived with the Censored light.It's better on my D-Max but still isn't as good as my strait axel truck with 4wheel disc's and no ABS.

Gm needs to make a switch to turn off the ABS like am airbag there are many instances when it's a real hazard. In my 92 S10, the ABS computer failed (thanks to a little 3' deep puddle), I didn’t replace it because of my dislike of ABS. A few months latter doing 55MPH coming to a red light down a hill and what... no brakes at all.

Well,any report yet? I'd like to see some pic's? I'm considering doing mine this winter.

Still no kit,I ordered it about a month and a half ago. They said they are really behind with backorders and it's taking longer than usual. At this point I'll be happy to have it done by Christmas:grd: . I didn't forget about you guys, I'll take plenty of pictures through the process.

I got in on this late but talk to "Tim" at www.Shakerbuilt.com (http://www.Shakerbuilt.com) They do soild front axle swaps into independent front suspension trucks all the time. Thay may be able to help and they are here on the East coast. I have his cross over steering on my truck and they are great guys.

My good buddy does these all the time at his shop.... but the sweet part of his swap over is the either a: coil overs!!! or b: Air bag 4-link setup(peterbilt mono leaf bags)

Keeps telling me to bring mine over... but I havn't had too much back luck with my IFS yet ( I'm running 38's) I've only torn up 1 set of upper ball joints...

I justed talked to them today,my stuff should ship out on Monday.They were waiting on a steering arm for the crossover sterring. I guess I need to get my 60 finished so I can get it done ASAP.I'll keep you guys posted. I thought about 4 link and coilovers,but you can't beat the simplicity of leaf springs. Besides they've been around almost as long as the wheel.):h

My good buddy does these all the time at his shop.... but the sweet part of his swap over is the either a: coil overs!!! or b: Air bag 4-link setup(peterbilt mono leaf bags)

Keeps telling me to bring mine over... but I havn't had too much back luck with my IFS yet ( I'm running 38's) I've only torn up 1 set of upper ball joints...

That sounds affordable...:rolleyes: Actually it would be really cool if it was, I saw a truck with the air ride on another site and it was pretty neat.

When I asked FTS about the coilover setup they had, they quoted it at $22000 with the axle...

That sounds affordable...:rolleyes: Actually it would be really cool if it was, I saw a truck with the air ride on another site and it was pretty neat.

When I asked FTS about the coilover setup they had, they quoted it at $22000 with the axle...

HOLY F_ING WITHOUT LUBE!!!!

that is outrageous!!!

WOW!!! the airride setup is getting cheaper now that he has done so many and can get all the parts for much cheaper..... 5-6K(I'd have to find out for sure.. pretty sure) ready to roll

With the front axle or without? I would think that would be with it.

thats price is a ball park... I'd have to ask him what hes charging now a days.... but hes including the air tank, pump, reglators valves relays and in cab lcd readout to let you change it all you want(if you go all four corners)

He is using a ford style... "high pinion"(like you see from Currie enterprises, or moser) "NON SUPERDUTY"(since they are garbage axlles) 60

On a side not there is also a company making a full fourlink with bags for the rear with auto levelers of course.... as a kit package... just saw it in amagazine("Trucks") when i was at the store the other day but I can't find their website to save my life at the moment

Sounds cool. What's the shop name and number?

Sounds like you are going to have a real nice setup. I am planning on doing the same thing to my new truck. I figure I can do a SFA for about the same cost, maybe a little more, of a big ifs lift, and be alot stronger. I have a couple pics I took of a fabritech kit installed using a dana 70 front and a rear 14 bolt ff. I'll look for them and post them up, it didn't look all that bad to install.

For anyone looking for a front axle Quigley 4x4, the company who does the 4x4 conversions to vans, had some dana 70 front axles not to long ago they were trying to unload. They were at the 4 wheel jamboree in PA this summer with them and I know they had them last year as well.
I forget there number but they are in PA

Hey Joe,any word on some Ford or Chevy 60's? Never heard if you found anymore or not. Let me know.
Thanks,Bill

dana 70 front axles not to long ago

You mean 60 right??

as I recall a 70 is a dually rear......

You mean 60 right??

as I recall a 70 is a dually rear......

No,some conversion companies had disc brake Dana 70 front axles specificly built for them for use in larger vans and motor homes. They are few and far between. I've only seen one in a magazine in the front of a motor home. I think they even have larger outers on them than a 60 does.

What became of the SFA swap? I'm interested in seeing how it turned out.

Well no sig change so far so I think he must not have gotten it done yet.. He better take lots of pics of the buildup...

IIRC doesn't the ferd bunch have a new XHD frt axle optional? Heard it is a 60 outer with 70 gears and axles..... that would be a sweet set-up... too bad the general is so far outa touch with HD trucks...WE should have this

PLEASE GM.... make a SFA optional, don't care if it uses leafs,coils or air bags