So tonight was My first time "really" towing with my lml I was towing my toyhauler and a bed full of wood =ing over 16k lbs. And can I say wow I don't know how many of you are familiar with the kahone pass hear in so cal. But it pulled it up like a champ even with the dumb asses who pulled out infront of me as I was doing 55 the whole way. But once I got to my destination I felt a little let down by the 4wd I ended up getting stuck in some loose sand :( but all in all very happy with the power but deffinetly need to get wider tires in a BFG a/t rather than these 265/70/18 Michelin a/t2 they just kinda dug into the sand

So tonight was My first time "really" towing with my lml I was towing my toyhauler and a bed full of wood =ing over 16k lbs. And can I say wow I don't know how many of you are familiar with the kahone pass hear in so cal. But it pulled it up like a champ even with the dumb asses who pulled out infront of me as I was doing 55 the whole way. But once I got to my destination I felt a little let down by the 4wd I ended up getting stuck in some loose sand :( but all in all very happy with the power but deffinetly need to get wider tires in a BFG a/t rather than these 265/70/18 Michelin a/t2 they just kinda dug into the sand

Brings a big smile to your face when you're towing with this rig doesn't it?

Hey, do you have any pics with your lift kit on?

both of you should put pics in your sig /garage section as they are nice trucks! : )

sand is a bitch when you are loaded up that heavy. have had my dually stuck in sand a few times

both of you should put pics in your sig /garage section as they are nice trucks! : )

Thanks Fastoys... I didn't know about the Garage. Just uploaded some pics.

sand is a bitch when you are loaded up that heavy. have had my dually stuck in sand a few times

Yep, Sand is near impossible with any normal tires.

So tonight was My first time "really" towing with my lml I was towing my toyhauler and a bed full of wood =ing over 16k lbs. And can I say wow I don't know how many of you are familiar with the kahone pass hear in so cal. But it pulled it up like a champ even with the dumb asses who pulled out infront of me as I was doing 55 the whole way. But once I got to my destination I felt a little let down by the 4wd I ended up getting stuck in some loose sand :( but all in all very happy with the power but deffinetly need to get wider tires in a BFG a/t rather than these 265/70/18 Michelin a/t2 they just kinda dug into the sand

Yup, know all about the Cajon pass. Where were you headed...Dumont?

And getting stuck is because of the stock tires. Throw some Toyo M/T's on that bad boy and you'll be set for life.

Yup, know all about the Cajon pass. Where were you headed...Dumont?

And getting stuck is because of the stock tires. Throw some Toyo M/T's on that bad boy and you'll be set for life.

Another choice for a great all around tire which is not noisy is the Nitto Terra Grapler. Bothh the Toyo's and the Nitto's are highly rated. The Terra Grapler is not quite as aggressive as the M/T's.

Good to hear your towing went well, these trucks are towing beasts.

Truth be told the A\T2's are pretty good tires!

I live where there is plenty of sand and have found the at2 to be every bit as good as the BFG A/T tires I used to run. It sounds like you may need a wider tire if you are pulling through sand on a regular basis, especially with that sort of weight.

Personal opinion, but the at2 is just as good in every condition I have used it in as the bfg or Toyo a/t tires I have run, and I am getting more miles out of them and fewer problems with balancing than any tire I have ever run. I have 70,000 miles on mine and expect 20-30k more before they wear out.

The Toyos seemed to me when I had them on a previous truck like they worked everywhere but sand, I buried my 04 with 37" MTs in Glamis and Dumont multiple times.
I haven't towed my 37' Weekend Warrior yet, but the Duallys are a curse in the sand, so I won't go unless my group has a few monster trucks to give me a tug should I need it. Glad to hear it towed good though, the Cajon, Kahone (Spelling) is definitely a FULL PULL

The truck pulled awesome and ya I spelled it wrong I was drunk and in the middle of the desert. We where @ rasor rd. And those tires where like shovels just digging into the sand I am defitnley going to be going to a wider tire in BFG that's what I had inky last truck and it was 2x4 and I never got stuck with them towing the same load.

I'll try to remember to take a new pic and get it up

Did the leveling kit change the ride quality at all? I've been thinking about getting one but don't want to change the nice ride it has.

Thanks,
El

Ya a little just depends on how much you turn them up. I turned mine up to where if you measure @ the center for the wheel from the ground to the top of the wheel well is 41.5 inches

Truth be told the A\T2's are pretty good tires!

X2.

X2.
im sure they are great tires in most all conditions but in sand they very much so under preformed.

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN ASKING TO SEE THE TRUCK WIT THE LEVELING KIT ON HEAR YOU GO http://www.wagonwheelforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=8

FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN ASKING TO SEE THE TRUCK WIT THE LEVELING KIT ON HEAR YOU GO http://www.wagonwheelforums.com/picture.php?albumid=4&pictureid=8

Can you post up some bigger pics? Looks awesome!

HOWS THAT FOR BIGGER
http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o112/UKNOWME8/TRUCK5.jpg

Ok figured out part of why I got stuck. When you put the truck into 4x4 it does not turn off the traction control and in sand you need wheel spin not traction so I got stuck last time. Now I am in glamis and turned that crap off and no problems :)

I live where there is plenty of sand and have found the at2 to be every bit as good as the BFG A/T tires I used to run. It sounds like you may need a wider tire if you are pulling through sand on a regular basis, especially with that sort of weight.

Personal opinion, but the at2 is just as good in every condition I have used it in as the bfg or Toyo a/t tires I have run, and I am getting more miles out of them and fewer problems with balancing than any tire I have ever run. I have 70,000 miles on mine and expect 20-30k more before they wear out.

It's not just your opinion, it is my opinion as well. The AT/2 is an outstanding tire which will outlast any tire mentioned in this thread, I wish I could get it in 325/65/R18 (35 inches).

So tonight was My first time "really" towing with my lml I was towing my toyhauler and a bed full of wood =ing over 16k lbs. And can I say wow I don't know how many of you are familiar with the kahone pass hear in so cal. But it pulled it up like a champ even with the dumb asses who pulled out infront of me as I was doing 55 the whole way. But once I got to my destination I felt a little let down by the 4wd I ended up getting stuck in some loose sand :( but all in all very happy with the power but deffinetly need to get wider tires in a BFG a/t rather than these 265/70/18 Michelin a/t2 they just kinda dug into the sand


What trans temps were you seeing pulling your toy hauler up the Cajon Pass? Thanks, J.

Sand is tough. I got my truck hung up backing into my campsite first pull here in Florida. 'Course it's two wheel drive.

60 to 70 psi in sand and you will get stuck, regardless of the tires you have. The less aggresive tread the better is sand, as well as about 20 psi. definately turn off the traction control and if you continue to hold the tc button for about 10 seconds the stabilitrak will turn off as well. When the stabilitrak engages it will cause problems in sand.

What trans temps were you seeing pulling your toy hauler up the Cajon Pass? Thanks, J.

Up the Cajon pass.... Towing a 12000lb Stacker
1. 62 mph
2. Outside air temp 82
3. Engine temp 188
4. Trans temp 165.
5. Egt 1070-1185

What trans temps were you seeing pulling your toy hauler up the Cajon Pass? Thanks, J.
towing 16k @65 trans temp never got over 165

60 to 70 psi in sand and you will get stuck, regardless of the tires you have. The less aggresive tread the better is sand, as well as about 20 psi. definately turn off the traction control and if you continue to hold the tc button for about 10 seconds the stabilitrak will turn off as well. When the stabilitrak engages it will cause problems in sand.
once i turned all that crap off i had no problems with getting stuck even without airing down. my 07 did not have all that b\s so i didn't even think about it that first few times but now i know and t tern it off as soon a i leave the highway. but i am still going to go to some BFG's

Everytime I start the truck I aways turn off traction control and stabilitrak.
Michelin makes great long lasting tires. IMO They make the best highway all season tire. My A/T 2s iv never had a problem with them in snow, gravel, and sand. Just my :2cents:

I love my BFG's. Best A/T tire out there IMO.

Sent from my DROIDX

I love my BFG's. Best A/T tire out there IMO.

Sent from my DROIDX
^^^^what he said^^^^

Everytime I start the truck I aways turn off traction control and stabilitrak.
Michelin makes great long lasting tires. IMO They make the best highway all season tire. My A/T 2s iv never had a problem with them in snow, gravel, and sand. Just my :2cents:

You will do that until someone cuts in front of you on a rainy day and you have to Zig zag to avoid an accident with people in the car. I wouldnt turn it off if I were you unless your off-highway, just my.02 to keep you safe!

that system is pretty amazing in freeway/road hazard testing. I would never have car/truck without it. It is nice to be able to shut it off when at glamis or the mountains etc. But please people keep it on while driving on roadways!

for my sake!

Yeah.....what they said!^^^^^ The system really is amazing....especially when towing. Just for fun, on a closed course, try some significant evasive maneuvers while towing heavy both with it on and with it off. Do that and I pretty much guarantee you'll leave it on everyday and be thankful for it everyday. People are correct about the off-road performance....best to turn off the traction control in sand or mud. Snow and ice....leave it on unless plowing. Since we're usually going pretty slow off-road, I leave the Stabilitrak on.

Only problem I have is I am used to driving the vehicle when out of control, with any kind of roll over control I find myself over-driving because the computer is doing it for me. Just give me one or the other is all I have to say.

Only problem I have is I am used to driving the vehicle when out of control, with any kind of roll over control I find myself over-driving because the computer is doing it for me. Just give me one or the other is all I have to say.
The system is intended to keep you from getting out of control in the first place.

Go to a safe location and try it 'on' vs 'off'.

Stabilitrak isn't just a simple roll-over protection...effects power and breaking independantly to all four wheels during evasive steering with the intent of keeping you in control. As noted, the idea is to stay in control on the road during emergency evasive steering and/or breaking. Granted, purposely drifting through turns on dirt, sand, mud wouldn't be as much fun....good news is you can turn it off if you really want to. Bonus plan, it even works on your towed load(as long as it has electric breaks)....intelligently applies breaks to keep the load behind you instead of next to or in front of you. No need for sway bars either...controls trailer sway with or without electric breaks on the trailer...aka....fishtail of death. It really is an amazing system that makes both we drivers and those around us safer. Stabilitrak stays on in my rig...all the time. On the other hand, Traction Control may or may not be on depending on what type of surface I'm on. My advice...leave it all on unless you have a very specific reason for turning it off for a finite period of time.

No need for sway bars either...controls trailer sway with or without electric breaks on the trailer.
Have you bumper pulled 11k or more without sway bars & you trailer stayed in place? Cause I havent. I bumper pulled 11K & if I didnt have sway bars I would have been fighting it & not been able to drive 68mph. (with traction control & stabilitrak on) You will need sway bars when bumper pulling heavy.

Weird - my 3500 SLT (same as Chevy LTZ), didn't come with it. I thought I had every option except nav and sun roof.

Weird - my 3500 SLT (same as Chevy LZ), didn't come with it. I thought I had every option except nav and sun roof.
it is not available on DRW trucks.

Ok, thanks.

there is no way in hell i would even a attempt to tow my trailer with out a sway bar it is a 36foot bumper pull and weights 16k fully loaded. even with Stabilitrak. do i feel the difference between my 07 without and my 11 with yes on the windy day and when passing or getting passes but still wouldn't try it with out the sway bar.

I'll take my TPMS and Stabilitrak free trucks anyday.

Sent from my DROIDX

no way i love my tpms

Have you bumper pulled 11k or more without sway bars & you trailer stayed in place?

When I'm fully loaded, hitch pulling, it's about a carefully loaded 9-10k +/- a little depending on water load, bikes, gear, generator, fuel, and misc stuff. Tows steady as a rock without sway bars...zero sway experienced so far, even during high winds or evasive steering around deer and dumb drivers. Same set up on my '06 got a little hairy sometimes without sway bars. I certainly can't speak for everyone in every circumstance, only my humble experience with my '11...no need for sway bars any more. The 2011 truck's updated onboard stability system, heavier frame, and revised suspension are a significant improvments over years past. I know you know this, no intent to insult, but other may not know...careful loading and appropriate weight distribution are hugely important in terms of trailer sway. Bottom line, if you need sway bars then use sway bars.....the underlying point of what we've been discussing is towing safely. Use whatever works best to arrive as intended.

you do know that the built in sway control on your truck works by pulsating the breaks on your trailer. so by not running a sway bar you are going to wear out your trailer breaks sooner than if you used one. and im pretty sure breaks are more expensive than a sway bar. if running a sway bar gets me more miles out of my breaks than even more reason to use one. no need to put excess wear and tear on my trailer.

When I'm fully loaded, hitch pulling, it's about a carefully loaded 9-10k +/- a little depending on water load, bikes, gear, generator, fuel, and misc stuff. Tows steady as a rock without sway bars...zero sway experienced so far, even during high winds or evasive steering around deer and dumb drivers. Same set up on my '06 got a little hairy sometimes without sway bars. I certainly can't speak for everyone in every circumstance, only my humble experience with my '11...no need for sway bars any more. The 2011 truck's updated onboard stability system, heavier frame, and revised suspension are a significant improvments over years past. I know you know this, no intent to insult, but other may not know...careful loading and appropriate weight distribution are hugely important in terms of trailer sway. Bottom line, if you need sway bars then use sway bars.....the underlying point of what we've been discussing is towing safely. Use whatever works best to arrive as intended.
You must not be going far if you dont need sway bars. The point is you cant just say "no needed for sway bars."

no way i love my tpms

TPMS IMO, was for the soccer moms and Honda drivers who don't notice they have a flat. I am always looking at my truck tires visually to see if there is an issue.

Just had a screw in my tire the other day and had to get it replaced.
Sent from my DROIDX

Only problem I have is I am used to driving the vehicle when out of control, with any kind of roll over control I find myself over-driving because the computer is doing it for me. Just give me one or the other is all I have to say.

the system starts to correct pre loss of control, so u the worlds greatest stunt driver wont be horribly affected ;)

ok here goes.... the sway systems is intended as an add on safety feature. Rule of thumb, its great for a 5th wheel but not enough for heavy (car loaded) ball/hitch style pull trailers. Sway bars significantly distribute the overall tongue wait (there is no brake assist substitute for that as they do completely different things) use both if heavy end of story.

When I'm fully loaded, hitch pulling, it's about a carefully loaded 9-10k +/- a little depending on water load, bikes, gear, generator, fuel, and misc stuff. Tows steady as a rock without sway bars...zero sway experienced so far, even during high winds or evasive steering around deer and dumb drivers. Same set up on my '06 got a little hairy sometimes without sway bars. I certainly can't speak for everyone in every circumstance, only my humble experience with my '11...no need for sway bars any more. The 2011 truck's updated onboard stability system, heavier frame, and revised suspension are a significant improvments over years past. I know you know this, no intent to insult, but other may not know...careful loading and appropriate weight distribution are hugely important in terms of trailer sway. Bottom line, if you need sway bars then use sway bars.....the underlying point of what we've been discussing is towing safely. Use whatever works best to arrive as intended.

at 10k, you must have some sag correct?

OK 5th Wheel....I get it now, didn't realize it was a contest. You're right...I only drive to the end of my driveway....you're bigger, badder, and smarter then I'll ever be....you win. I only fight the battles that need to be won...not the ones in your mind. Safe travels, take care.

Uknowme8....good point. I knew that but your point is valid, honestly hadn't been concerned about the trailer breaks wearing out prematurely because of sway control. Never really noticed enough of it to raise a concern in my mind. My coments were primarily focused on the stability of the tow but that's certainly something to consider. Thanks.

Just for clarity, I do run a weight distribution hitch, no separate sway bar(s). There are a couple companies out there making integrated weight disto/sway control hitches but that's not what I have. Sway control in a wide variety of driving conditions just simply hasn't been a concern for me since I got the '11. For those of you with the integrated unit, this tangent conversation obviously doesn't apply.

at 10k, you must have some sag correct?
Nope, no notable sag....with the weight distribution hitch and careful loading to maintain the tounge weight within limits hasn't been a problem. No bags in the back...stock suspension. I'm very happy with my current set up.

Uknowme8....good point. I knew that but your point is valid, honestly hadn't been concerned about the trailer breaks wearing out prematurely because of sway control. Never really noticed enough of it to raise a concern in my mind. My coments were primarily focused on the stability of the tow but that's certainly something to consider. Thanks.



Just FYI the system is designed to work seamlessly with your trailer. SO you will never know when its doing it but it does. and for your safety and mine please use a sway bar so that on you next long trip your breaks dont go out prematurely and end up hurting someone like your own family just because you thought you didn't need one. Just looking out man.

Nope, no notable sag....with the weight distribution hitch and careful loading to maintain the tounge weight within limits hasn't been a problem. No bags in the back...stock suspension. I'm very happy with my current set up.
your suppose to have 60% of your weight in front of your Axel center line. if you dont than your not loading correctly per the U.S.-D.O.T.

Uknowme8....Got it, thanks. Another school of thought that works out the roughly the same, after doing the math, is tongue weight should be 9-15% of GTW for a tandem axle rig. There's a complex sounding but apparently simple way to figure it out, quoted below. Me, I just went to the local scales to do my set up then load pretty much the same way every time.....again, no stability problems. Around here, states scales are open 24/7 as a "public service". Anyone can use them at any time. I cannot attest to this from personal experience but there are numerous identical mentions of this method all over the web. Here's the "how to" for those interested....

"To do this, you'll need a two-by-four cut to a five- or six-foot (1.5- or 1.8-meter) length, two pipes, your bathroom scale, and a brick. Lay one of the pipes across the scale and the other across the brick. Position the scale and the brick so the pipes are exactly three feet apart. Now, lay the two-by-four across the pipes, and find a suitable way to support the tongue of the trailer at the same height as the tow vehicle's hitch ball. Place the tongue (and hitch-height support) on the two-by-four exactly 2 feet (0.6 meters) away from the pipe lying across the scale and 1 foot (0.3 meters) away from the pipe lying across the brick. Read the weight displayed on the scale, and then multiply the weight by three. This is your tongue weight. You can adjust the weight of the cargo forward or rearward of the trailer axle to reach your target tongue weight. Just watch the scale -- and don't forget to multiply the displayed weight by three."

I'm sure someone out there has tried it to check validity. Perhaps they could verify...

Thread moved to towing forum.

OK 5th Wheel....I get it now, didn't realize it was a contest. You're right...I only drive to the end of my driveway....you're bigger, badder, and smarter then I'll ever be....you win. I only fight the battles that need to be won...not the ones in your mind. Safe travels, take care.

Uknowme8....good point. I knew that but your point is valid, honestly hadn't been concerned about the trailer breaks wearing out prematurely because of sway control. Never really noticed enough of it to raise a concern in my mind. My coments were primarily focused on the stability of the tow but that's certainly something to consider. Thanks.

Just for clarity, I do run a weight distribution hitch, no separate sway bar(s). There are a couple companies out there making integrated weight disto/sway control hitches but that's not what I have. Sway control in a wide variety of driving conditions just simply hasn't been a concern for me since I got the '11. For those of you with the integrated unit, this tangent conversation obviously doesn't apply.

If you have a weight distribution hitch then you are fine, Believe it or not that is the most major cause for sway. If you have a weight distribution hitch which ratchets tongue weight (the only way to have distribution) using any sort of bar you technically have a sway bar set up. Those running an anti sway shock are just using an added feature. If your using a device other then one im talking about please share with us what it does? as I am curious how it distributes weight correctly/effeciently. Safe travels!

R u running a similar setup?
http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Pro-Series/49586.html

Uknowme8....Got it, thanks. Another school of thought that works out the roughly the same, after doing the math, is tongue weight should be 9-15% of GTW for a tandem axle rig. There's a complex sounding but apparently simple way to figure it out, quoted below. Me, I just went to the local scales to do my set up then load pretty much the same way every time.....again, no stability problems. Around here, states scales are open 24/7 as a "public service". Anyone can use them at any time. I cannot attest to this from personal experience but there are numerous identical mentions of this method all over the web. Here's the "how to" for those interested....

"To do this, you'll need a two-by-four cut to a five- or six-foot (1.5- or 1.8-meter) length, two pipes, your bathroom scale, and a brick. Lay one of the pipes across the scale and the other across the brick. Position the scale and the brick so the pipes are exactly three feet apart. Now, lay the two-by-four across the pipes, and find a suitable way to support the tongue of the trailer at the same height as the tow vehicle's hitch ball. Place the tongue (and hitch-height support) on the two-by-four exactly 2 feet (0.6 meters) away from the pipe lying across the scale and 1 foot (0.3 meters) away from the pipe lying across the brick. Read the weight displayed on the scale, and then multiply the weight by three. This is your tongue weight. You can adjust the weight of the cargo forward or rearward of the trailer axle to reach your target tongue weight. Just watch the scale -- and don't forget to multiply the displayed weight by three."

I'm sure someone out there has tried it to check validity. Perhaps they could verify...

It works

R u running a similar setup?
http://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Distribution/Pro-Series/49586.html

This is what I use. Model #07036
http://www.huskytow.com/FTP/PDF/P01040_HTCH_Pg14-16.pdf

If you have a weight distribution hitch which ratchets tongue weight (the only way to have distribution) using any sort of bar you technically have a sway bar set up.

Well, not technically. Yes, a WD hitch will sure help reduce sway, but it's because of the fact that the weight is now distributed better across the tow vehicle, in turn reducing it's bad behaviour that would induce sway to begin with, not necessarily because it's acting specifically in any fashion to mute sway.

There is nothing in a standard torsion-bar WD hitch setup that provides any notable amount of direct sway control as you would find in a friction bar or cantilever WD hitch setup with specific features designed to mute sway.

Yes, any WD hitch will help reduce sway, but calling it a "sway bar" setup is a bit of a misnomer IMHO.

eh, agree to disagree. If weight distribution is the LEADING cause of sway and a weight distribution mechanism directly inhibits sway, I consider it an anti sway device whether or not it you are running an added "anti-sway" shock or mechanism.

I consider torsion bars which directly inhibit sway via distributing weight, Sway Bars.

eh, agree to disagree. If weight distribution is the LEADING cause of sway and a weight distribution mechanism directly inhibits sway, I consider it an anti sway device whether or not it you are running an added "anti-sway" shock or mechanism.

Ok, looking at it that way, I see your viewpoint. :beerchug:

LMM....similar. Actually run the Eaz Lift Elite 1400......max 14000 GTW with hitch and torsion/trunion bars. Overkill for my current ~10K application but it's better to have too much than not enough. Works very well and very stable.

Again, I was very specifically speaking about the seperate sway bars that I don't need since I got the '11. Conventional wisdom, with a couple new exceptions, is that weight distributing hitches and sway bars are two seperate things. I was speaking of only the sway bars.....not the hitch and torsion/trunion bars. The considerable advancements in the '11 have made them unnecessary for me. If I develop a significant case of OCD, maybe I'll measure trailer break pad thickness both before and after a long tow, as someone else mentioned that there may be an impact on break wear. Others may still need sway bays given their application....never said people shouldn't use them. If their configuration or comfort level necessitates their use, then by all means they should use them.....safety first.

Obviously there seems to be some confusion out there in this thread. Somehow my intended helpful comments were turned into something else by a few that didn't understand what I was talking about.

This ain't my first rodeo, been safely towing for many, many years. I've never had a problem because I take it seriously, do research, buy good gear, load correctly, and don't drive like an idiot. I'm not the newbee that started this thread....some other guy did. I started towing stuff over 30 years ago...hay, horses, cows, sheep, water, implements, cars, equipment, boats, travel trailers, whatever...in various combinations, weight configurations, and hitch set-ups.

My humble experience....loading has more to do with it than just about anything else....uneven loads, unstable loads, exceeding or light loading tongue weight, and/or GTW exceeding tow vehicle capability cause most of people's problems. Someone mentioned the DOT guidance of 60% of the weight should be forward/centered from the axles. Because the axles act as a fulcrum, that's decent but very rough guidance that puts roughly 10% GTW on the tongue. Farther outward from the fulcrum point increases weight disproportunatly at the ends of the lever(trailer). However, given the almost endless trailer, axle position, load, weight possibilities....that's not specific enough for my taste. The only way to know for sure that you're within limits is to load, GTW weigh, tongue weigh, do the math, and adjust load as necessary. I shoot for 10-12% of GTW as my target tongue weight. That's exactly what I do when I set up a new rig....then duplicate loading as close as possible every time.

Pretty sure I'm done with this thread. Go with what works best for you, I'll do the same. Sail safe everyone.....enjoy the great outdoors.

Pulling out on the sand loaded with out airing down?!?! you cali guys are spoiled... even with a single axle flatbed with 2 bikes you wouldnt make it 15 on the oregon coast dunes...

I drop mine to 15 psi in the front 10 in the back and 15 in the trailer and hope for the best.... havent gotten the duramax stuck yet, but the old 6.0 gasser hopped like crazy

LMM....similar. Actually run the Eaz Lift Elite 1400......max 14000 GTW with hitch and torsion/trunion bars. Overkill for my current ~10K application but it's better to have too much than not enough. Works very well and very stable.

Again, I was very specifically speaking about the seperate sway bars that I don't need since I got the '11. Conventional wisdom, with a couple new exceptions, is that weight distributing hitches and sway bars are two seperate things. I was speaking of only the sway bars.....not the hitch and torsion/trunion bars. The considerable advancements in the '11 have made them unnecessary for me. If I develop a significant case of OCD, maybe I'll measure trailer break pad thickness both before and after a long tow, as someone else mentioned that there may be an impact on break wear. Others may still need sway bays given their application....never said people shouldn't use them. If their configuration or comfort level necessitates their use, then by all means they should use them.....safety first.

Obviously there seems to be some confusion out there in this thread. Somehow my intended helpful comments were turned into something else by a few that didn't understand what I was talking about.

This ain't my first rodeo, been safely towing for many, many years. I've never had a problem because I take it seriously, do research, buy good gear, load correctly, and don't drive like an idiot. I'm not the newbee that started this thread....some other guy did. I started towing stuff over 30 years ago...hay, horses, cows, sheep, water, implements, cars, equipment, boats, travel trailers, whatever...in various combinations, weight configurations, and hitch set-ups.

My humble experience....loading has more to do with it than just about anything else....uneven loads, unstable loads, exceeding or light loading tongue weight, and/or GTW exceeding tow vehicle capability cause most of people's problems. Someone mentioned the DOT guidance of 60% of the weight should be forward/centered from the axles. Because the axles act as a fulcrum, that's decent but very rough guidance that puts roughly 10% GTW on the tongue. Farther outward from the fulcrum point increases weight disproportunatly at the ends of the lever(trailer). However, given the almost endless trailer, axle position, load, weight possibilities....that's not specific enough for my taste. The only way to know for sure that you're within limits is to load, GTW weigh, tongue weigh, do the math, and adjust load as necessary. I shoot for 10-12% of GTW as my target tongue weight. That's exactly what I do when I set up a new rig....then duplicate loading as close as possible every time.

Pretty sure I'm done with this thread. Go with what works best for you, I'll do the same. Sail safe everyone.....enjoy the great outdoors.

Ok that is what I thought, and you are correct. With the new 600lb heavier frame, all the electronic sway control breaking there is absolutely no need other then a Weight distribution hitch (Sway Bars) for any other sort of sway control. Everything else is simply over kill and to be honest think about it this way.... With the electronic system, the system will counteract any sway faster and before an added sway dampening device will serve its function. Meaniing unless your trailer doesent have trailer breaks the electronic sway control will begin counteracting the sway before an added sway dampening device can work. Just my .02