I met with the dealer again today to place my order and he still can't tell me when the LBZ will be available. I asked if he could contact his regional GM rep to see if he would know and he said that this guy wouldn't even know. I've seen some things that state last quarter of this year. Has anyone heard anyhthing definite?

The press release from GM says 4th quarter of 2005. GM 4th quarter starts 1 Oct.

The LBZ sounds awesome from what I've heard but you know there are going to be start up issues - there always are.

One thing I am really curious about is whether the same allison 1000 being used now will come with the LBZ or if they will make any changes to handle the extra power. Looks to me like the LBZ would be like the LLY with a level 1 tune or chip setting. I know the 1000 can handle this level or power but I was just wondering if anything was changed.

If the alison is not upgraded, with the higher LBZ power levels stock, adding a chip or tuner (when they are ready) to increase power over stock will quickly hurt the trans.

1 1/2 year production run for the LLY. I wonder if that is going to be the "odd engine" of the family.

No kidding.... My shiney 05 looks to be the bastard child in the family. I can't wait to need support and also to see all the toy manufacturers abandon the LLY. It's not like I can afford to change it out to an 06 anytime soon. Looks like GMS pricing wasn't such a great deal after all. Mine won't even spin the tires and I have seen a LB7 do it NP at all. It just feels like the tranny sucks up all the power and only gives you what it wants.

My salesman told me the 06 will come with a six speed Allison. Not any higher
ratio, just the shifts are spaced closer together. On another Diesel site I read
that the current Allison's already have a 6th gear, but it is not enabled. I find
that hard to believe. A 6th gear in there would be a higher ratio, so that other
site is posting bogus information. And besides the programer/tuners or mechanics
would know of the 6th gear, and I've never heard of it b/4.

Our Allison LCT-1000 tranny's do actually have a sixth gear, it is just not enabled in the TCM software. The only thing that keeps our tranny from unlocking its "hidden" 6th gear is TCM programming and I think a simple fluid bypass tube would need to be added. GM didnt change anything in the tranny for 2006...they just started using 6-gear TCM software and added a bypass tube in the tranny. Otherwise its identical. Someone correct me if im wrong tho...

---Ben

My salesman told me the 06 will come with a six speed Allison. Not any higher
ratio, just the shifts are spaced closer together. On another Diesel site I read
that the current Allison's already have a 6th gear, but it is not enabled. I find
that hard to believe. A 6th gear in there would be a higher ratio, so that other
site is posting bogus information. And besides the programer/tuners or mechanics
would know of the 6th gear, and I've never heard of it b/4.

Your salesman, as usual, is wrong. The 6th gear is added to the 5 speed for a higher od ratio. All ratio's of the 6 speed are the same as the 5 speed w/ an added 6th gear. This topic of stupid salesman fires me up. How can someone try to sell a $40,000 truck to someone without having any knowledge of its specs or options? The new option equipment packages (LS, LT1, LT2, etc...) for the trucks should be real neat for these idiot dealers to figure out.

The 6th gear thing you read is correct. The newer Allisons have the 6th gear and are not used. Allison does this in other transmissions they make for busses and semi's, so it is not uncommon. The trans. guys will tear the new 6 speed apart and figure out how the 6th gear is enabled. I'm sure they will be able to convert our 5 speeds someday.

Cloudytown, you did the right thing by posting your dealers remarks here. This is a great place to get things cleared up that you dealer makes.....well, CLOUDY!! I'd trust the info on a diesel site over anything your dealer can tell you 8 days out of the week. He did tell you there were 8 days in the week......didn't he?:lol:

Zukeman,

The dealer told me that I can't order my truck with the LBZ until September 16th. He also said it would take 6 to 8 weeks to get it. Is that true as it seemed like a pretty quick turnaround to get the truck.

So I'm waiting and hope to be able to participate in more discussions.

Michael

What are the real specs on the lbz and when did the sixth gear apear in the 1000? What are the specs on the new tranny (Hp/torque). How much diff in the ratio for the 6th gear.

APEXXN - Different things probably influence delivery time and some dealers very likely fudge. But 6-8 weeks sounds realistic. Mine was ordered last year in early April. The dealer said 6 weeks, and I picked it up 6 weeks later almost to the day. It was actually built the end of April and the last couple weeks were spent waiting for it to show up here in Utah.

As a research tech in the trans field I may be able to shed some light on the 6th gear thing.Its not that they added a gear or any thing realy just the software to engage the right clutches in order to produce a 6th forwar gear. Not uncommon ,however it sounds strange.Most tranny OEM's can do the same thing but some times the diffrence in ratios is so minute they don't.

1 1/2 year production run for the LLY. I wonder if that is going to be the "odd engine" of the family.

I wouldn't worry too much about that. The new LBZ probably won't have much more than a couple years worth of life either. The extremely competitive diesel market is what's driving the rapid evolution of the Dmax (and all diesel engines for that matter). Ford and Dodge are right there as well... no doubt we'll soon see a PSD and/or Cummins that rates higher in HP and TQ than the LBZ (like Dodge did when the 605 TQ LLY came out... immediately the Cummins "600" is re-rated at 610!!!). So within a couple years GM will have to re-engineer again to keep up and we'll have a "new" Dmax that will make the LBZ seem passe.

The only reason the LB7 lasted as long as it did (4.5 years) was because it was such as gigantic leap forward in power/performance that it took Ford and Dodge that long to catch up, once they did GM came out with the LLY. Now they have the LBZ and, as I said above, Ford/Dodge will soon top it, then GM will come out with something to top them.

The good news is that we the consumers are the ones really benefitting from all this intense competition. Diesel performance is light years beyond what it was before the 1st Dmax came out... so it's all good!!!! :ro)

i order a truck every year a 3500 crew cab dolley fully loaded 4x4 i ordered this one with the sunroof and dvd i ordered it in july around the 15th well still no build date yet the guy that orders the vehicles said gm had a hold on my truck and the other diesels they had ordered thisisbill heard cheverolet a big outfit so i know it got ordered i wounder whats up and why there is a hold on it gm has not told them why there is a hold on it yet has enyone else had this problem i also was told that they would come with a 4:10 gear this year i thought the dually only came with the 3:73 gear thanks

The LBZ is not available for ordering until the sept. 15th ordering cylcle. And then they will be highly constrained for ordering. To the best of my knowledge, the 2500 and 3500's will still only have the 3.73 gears for the Duramax. The prices didn't change for '06, but are suppose to be re-invoiced after Sept 7 for the new marketing strategy of "value-pricing". The new strategy is-- why price a truck at 48000 and have discounts and rebates so the truck can be bought for 38000, just price the thing at 39000 and give a small rebate.

One more note: The LBZ option has not even been loaded into the GM ordering system yet, so if you are ordering trucks from a dealer and think you are getting the LBZ, ask for a build out sheet or a spec sheet of the actual order and order number. That will verify if you truly have the LBZ. This is not a hard process, the dealer just has to click on the details tab in his order bank and hit print. THe problem will be that the constraint on the LBZ will be strict and most dealers will have to wait to order one when they are given allocation. So your dealer may tell you that it will take about 6-8 weeks and if he has allocation, he's right, if not, it will take longer.:cool:

but still i ordered a 05 and 16 weeks later no truck because of the sunroof i ordered i surly thought this year i wouldn't have the same problem and sure enough gm puta hold on again did't know if it was because of the newtransmissionor the gear if you go to the gm site and build a truck it now only gives you a 4:10 ratio not the 3:73 it is just strange they are holding them i wish i had waited for the lbz when the dealership told me they may be holding it because the new duramax i got qxcited and then i found out different my heart droped like my best hunting dog got ran over if anyone may know why they are holding these back please let me know if it may be the sunroof option again i may just not say anything and reorder another truck on sept 15th thanks

See if your dealer will order it thru dealer stock..I did that on my 98 and got it long before others did..they charged me an extra 100.00 bucks to do it..

I wonder if the injector issues will be cured, it says in the specs that there is a new & improved fuel injection system. I really hope GM ditched bosch. 5 years of consistant injector failures is too long--something needs to be done & hopefully the LBZ will prove to be successful.

Dusty, what did you mean by re-invoiced after sept. 7? I ordered a 06 in July and its in now, was a blank sticker on window now it is 45,700 and 2,000 rebate. Will it get cheaper? We are going round and round about my trade a crew cab half ton. I lost 11,000 on it so far. HELP!!

In '05 there were some Silverado's and Trailblazers that dealers were issued new invoices on in 2/05, lowering the prices by $1500.
In '06, the ALL NEW VALUE PRICING strategy is to lower the MSRP but also lower rebates. Sometime after 9-6-05 when the GMS pricing goes away and basically all the '05's are gone (or only the undesirables are left) then the "rumor" has it GM is going to re-issue invoices on the current '06 stock that is out there, lowering the price. Won't do it now because it would be too much competition between the '06's and the '05's. They really have pushed to get the '05 stock gone!
Also, the new LBZ will be available to order after Sept 15th and no "stealership" is talking much about that, because they don't want you to wait and order later, they want you to do it now!
Also, if a "stealer" is ordering a vehicle for you, you are in no way, shape, or form obligated to take that vehicle. If you gave them a deposit, you might be scr##, but you still do not HAVE to take the vehicle.:cool:

has anyone seen the new 06 gmc duramax?

I wonder if the injector issues will be cured, it says in the specs that there is a new & improved fuel injection system. I really hope GM ditched bosch. 5 years of consistant injector failures is too long--something needs to be done & hopefully the LBZ will prove to be successful.

We still have Bosch injectors and now an ECM from them as well. I wouldn't place all of the blame on Bosch for the injectors.

Thanks Dusty, went looked and drove again today. Looking under the hood it looks nothing like the 2004.5 LLY that I had. Everthing is completly changed. So quiet you can not tell it is a diesel. Looks like a LBZ to me. Sticker says _advertised 310HP. That is wierd. Lot different than a LLY.

Did you look at the RPO list sticker in the glove box?? That would tell all...

---Ben

I drove an '06 2500HD with the revised LLY and to me it sounded just like my brothers '05 LLY.

The LBZ will be available after September 19th.

I ordered my 2500HD today, with the assurance that it will have a LBZ engine. My salesman showed me a GM directive that stated that the LLY engine was no longer available as of August 15 and all new orders for the DMax would have to have the order form corrected to show LBZ instead of LLY until the computers were updated which had a TCD of August 25.

Thanks for posting that Hamops.

The dealers around here were telling me I had to wait until 9/16 but I'll use your info to push them to order it now.

Michael

I have a 2006 duramax, my turbo setup, air-intake and computer seems to be different than 2 of my friends 2005 dmaxs'. Even the turbo seems louder. My truck was made in July, It seems to have more power than their trucks as well. I think I have an LBZ, but honestly, I have no idea. The new 6spd. alison with the manual mode is nice, especially towing, I've been on the road for the past week all over the east coast and the midwest with ny new truck pulling a 40' enclosed trailer loaded and honestly, you can't even tell the trailer is on the back, it pulls 80-90+mph, no problem.

I have a 2006 duramax, my turbo setup, air-intake and computer seems to be different than 2 of my friends 2005 dmaxs'. Even the turbo seems louder. My truck was made in July, It seems to have more power than their trucks as well. I think I have an LBZ, but honestly, I have no idea. The new 6spd. alison with the manual mode is nice, especially towing, I've been on the road for the past week all over the east coast and the midwest with ny new truck pulling a 40' enclosed trailer loaded and honestly, you can't even tell the trailer is on the back, it pulls 80-90+mph, no problem.


From what I have read, the reason why your D-max seems stronger than other's with the same output ratings, is because you have the new Allison, which has a larger 310mm torque converter. From what I have researched, because this 2006 Allison is beefed up, there is no more detuning of the D-max in 1st and 5th gear. Basically, you now get the full potential of the D-max and you can really feel it. Now just imagine what the LBZ will feel like!!

2500HD, Is your mileage better than most LLYs?

is it not possible, that the 06' Trucks on the lot now are actually the LBZ, but when they get " officially" announced they will just turn up the power a notch?

:funnypost WISHFUL THINKING

The sixth gear – essentially a second overdrive gear – enables a wide, 5.08:1 overall forward gear ratio coverage and allows the vehicle’s engine to operate at lower rpm, particularly during higher-speed driving on highways and freeways. Its 0.61 ratio sixth gear provides a 1550-rpm engine speed at 60 mph, compared with the five-speed transmission’s 1800-rpm engine speed at 60 mph. The engine uses less fuel at lower rpm, enabling increased fuel mileage and range. The ratios of gears 1 through 5 remain the same as the Allison 1000 five-speed, including the 0.71:1 fifth gear.

Nice! Dropping 250 rpm is the best way to save fuel.

I am just getting more and more excited about this new truck. the tranny is beefier (per the chevy web site), and has a6th gear for MPG, the engine is updated and stronger, and im sure ( knock on wood) that the cooling has been addressed. This just might be the best Diesel on the block finally!

If only the front end wasnt so damn ugly,-:t but I think I can get over that.........

The trucks now being built are LLY's and will continue to be LLY's until change over in Sept., here are answers to a few questions that I have recieved.

1) What date will these changes be made?

If the PTR (Plant Trial Run) is successful, the start of production may become tpw 9/19.

2) When will this new engine be available to order in VOMS
(9/8)

3. All orders in process with LLY and Allison will be changed to LBZ as of 9/26 production.

2500HD, Is your mileage better than most LLYs?

My truck has only 1800mi on it, and my friends 05 has 14,000mi. on it, we are about the same milage towing our goosenecks w/ cars in them, we got about 13mi./gal @ 80-90mph.

I am just getting more and more excited about this new truck. the tranny is beefier (per the chevy web site), and has a6th gear for MPG, the engine is updated and stronger, and im sure ( knock on wood) that the cooling has been addressed. This just might be the best Diesel on the block finally!

If only the front end wasnt so damn ugly,-:t but I think I can get over that.........


As far as the cooling on my 2006 truck, the fan clutch nosie has not kicked on at all while towing through the hills of PA in the heat @ 80mph. My friends 05 kicks on a lot.