Just read Wards Autoworld October issue magazine article of Diesel Shootout. They give an edge to powerstroke for "technology". About all I could discern was that the duramax seemed to be "working harder" under 12,000 pound trailer pull. Wheras the powerstroke has"...innovative architecture, advanced materials and excellent noise, vibration and harshness characteristics..."
The duramax has a slight edge in acceleration and torque.
What is the consensus of readers and owners? I prefer duramax, but was set to wonder when I read the article. BTW...Cummins came in a distant 3rd...except for the better maintenance battle.

Since my current duramax is a 2002 I was also surprised to read that both duramax and powestroke require diesel exhaust fluid refill. Gads...can this be removed (after warranty?)
Also is there a Quest chip available for the new duramax?

Well since you are posting this question on a gm board, I think you pretty much realize the answers you will get already.

I will say this much. You have to buy what fits your needs and what you want to drive. Everyone on here can tell you what to buy and how much you should pay, what mods to do, etc but at the end of the day it is totally up to you.

Good luck in your search. Might want to read some on the Ford forums as well to get the full scope, and Dodge is you so choose.

Also, go drive all the trucks. This will also help in your decision process.

I have several Fords and will be picking up a 3500 crewcab Duramax in about an hour. I wasnt going to "try" another one of Fords motors untill its had time to prove its self. They have not been out for long , I would wait till there are some out there in the field that have been worked. We ave all heard about Ford testing the new 6.7 but we also heard the same with the 6.0 and 6.4. My Ford dealer gave me a truck to drive and it was nice but proven. Drove a Duramax and was really very impressed, seems like they have made the truck into a much heavier duty truck than previous models. I think any of the big three make a good truck but for me I wanted a truck that would stay out of the shop. Hope all goes as planned.

The Ford looks like a great truck. I have noticed that the reviews I've seen give very little coverage to the new GM chassis, which is arguably the strongest, most refined in the industry. Neither Ford nor Dodge can match the 2500HD chassis for load carrying capability nor ride.

You're asking this question on a GM board? Obviously 100 people will say GM and 3 will say Ford.

The newer generation diesels remind me of the emission controls of the early 70's. Every year and every model had different versions of evap(fuel)., mech. and exh. modifications to meet the new emission standards without drastically affecting performance. The results were horrendous. Engine horsepower and fuel economy went into the cellar. Reliability and ease of repair went out the window. Driveability suffered. It took years to get it right.
Now, when the automotive industry and government should be applying the simplicity and reliability of the diesel principle to cars and truck as they have throughout Europe and Asia, our bureaucrats with their rectal vision are determined to kill it by complicating, choking and starving it to death.
Once before the diesel came close to extinction due to the bean counters at GM when they thought it would add millions to their profits by converting an Oldsmobile engine to diesel. The results were as catastrophic as their attempt to grab the rear engine drive concept of the VW Beetle with the Corvair, killing the rear drive market for all but a few cult Beetle fans.
The bureaucrats are killing this country by continually slaughtering the golden geese for their own Utopian agenda's.
The diesel package is a 10K dollar option and the fuel savings is just not there. With all the new and as yet untried emission controls, I fear power and further economy will soon suffer too. Diesel fuel, once considerably cheaper than gasoline is now more expensive. There goes that savings. New technology has made gasoline engines stronger, lighter, more fuel efficient and more powerful. New technology has only been applied to reduce the diesels advantages by encumbering it with bureaucratic hamstrings. Thanks for nothing Uncle Sam! Rant over.

yes...I am a Duramax fan. Was surprised to even see powerstroke close. I don't like the exhaust fluid thing, yet I am a neophite when it comes to such stuff.

I do know the Quest chip has pleased us dramatically with added power when wanted and fuel milage when not pulling a heavy load. (and yes the occasional racing mode is a thriller) I don't yet know if a chip is available for the new duramax..so thought I'd ask here first.

You're asking this question on a GM board? Obviously 100 people will say GM and 3 will say Ford.

That just means almost 98% will be right. :D

You mean the POWERCHOKE?????? Of course the Duramax is the only way to go.. .You dont want to be Found On Road Dead..... and Nor will you be First On Race Days

I believe that all three are right on par with each other, with the exception of a few different style options, they are almost the same. I would then look deeper and see who has the best service department.

My new local (military move from TX to AK) service department told me that it would take about two weeks to get me in to have a look at my wife's starter problem with her Suburban. If I was back in TX, I would have been seen same or next day.

So, if I were in the market to look at a new truck, I WOULD NOT get a Chevy. I would get a GMC, because the GMC dealer was able to get my wife in within two days.

Hope that helps you,
Kevin

I agree with others, you can't go wrong with any of them. All have some minor issues, some have major issues that seem to be hit and miss. **Cough** new motor and new transmission **cough** I couldn't be happier with my choice, GMC. I wanted things that the others didn't offer, but I got some things that might not be the best out there right now, but in no way shape or form were deal breakers. I suggest go drive them all one day, wait a week then drive them again, and possible another wait with another test drive. They are a hefty investment that looses you money from day one so make sure you get one you like and will enjoy for years to come. That is if you get to drive it much more than to and from the shop. I'm just sayin. ):h

I would let FORD come up with a motor that they will sell for more than a couple of years without a back to the drawing board motor change. This is exactly the reason I am driving a Chevy now.

The newer generation diesels remind me of the emission controls of the early 70's. Every year and every model had different versions of evap(fuel)., mech. and exh. modifications to meet the new emission standards without drastically affecting performance. The results were horrendous. Engine horsepower and fuel economy went into the cellar. Reliability and ease of repair went out the window. Driveability suffered. It took years to get it right.
Now, when the automotive industry and government should be applying the simplicity and reliability of the diesel principle to cars and truck as they have throughout Europe and Asia, our bureaucrats with their rectal vision are determined to kill it by complicating, choking and starving it to death.
Once before the diesel came close to extinction due to the bean counters at GM when they thought it would add millions to their profits by converting an Oldsmobile engine to diesel. The results were as catastrophic as their attempt to grab the rear engine drive concept of the VW Beetle with the Corvair, killing the rear drive market for all but a few cult Beetle fans.
The bureaucrats are killing this country by continually slaughtering the golden geese for their own Utopian agenda's.
The diesel package is a 10K dollar option and the fuel savings is just not there. With all the new and as yet untried emission controls, I fear power and further economy will soon suffer too. Diesel fuel, once considerably cheaper than gasoline is now more expensive. There goes that savings. New technology has made gasoline engines stronger, lighter, more fuel efficient and more powerful. New technology has only been applied to reduce the diesels advantages by encumbering it with bureaucratic hamstrings. Thanks for nothing Uncle Sam! Rant over.


What are you talking about? Your post makes no sense!

Back in the 70's a 350 was making 130 hp with the emissions crap. Now we have a clean burning diesel making 400 hp/ 765 tq? Seems like a win win to me...no black smoke screwing up the environment and tons of power?

Gas motors are also at their peak. My corvette makes 505 hp and has great emissions. Even your garden variety V6 is making 300 hp.

I don't understand why people want to remove emissions equipment that is not compromising the performance of the vehicle. Why destroy the environment? Even a dog knows not to shit in his own doghouse.

Tim

You cannot tell me that oil in the intercooler from the PCV is good.

Or that the massive carbon buildup in the intake is good from the EGR system. Look at pictures from earlier model Duramax trucks to see the carbon buildup in the intake, just think of how much worse it will be with the new dual loop EGR system, allowing more of an opportunity for spent exhaust gases to enter the engine.

What about the DPF? You create emissions by making refining fuel from oil, yet you have to inject fuel to create heat to burn off soot in the DPF, therefore using more fuel and only reducing emissions from the truck, but creating more emissions at the refineries due to more oil being consumed. Yep, thats a great idea...

Why do you think that engines today have such a great performance potential, just in a tune? Because they are grossly under tuned for emissions and reliability.

The problem is that we have politicians (lawyers, political elites) telling automakers how to build cars, when they have no idea. They just pull a number out of their ass (like CAFE) and require automakers to meet the standards or pay heavy fines.

Anyway, I'm done with this rant...

You cannot tell me that oil in the intercooler from the PCV is good.

Or that the massive carbon buildup in the intake is good from the EGR system. Look at pictures from earlier model Duramax trucks to see the carbon buildup in the intake, just think of how much worse it will be with the new dual loop EGR system, allowing more of an opportunity for spent exhaust gases to enter the engine.

What about the DPF? You create emissions by making refining fuel from oil, yet you have to inject fuel to create heat to burn off soot in the DPF, therefore using more fuel and only reducing emissions from the truck, but creating more emissions at the refineries due to more oil being consumed. Yep, thats a great idea...

Why do you think that engines today have such a great performance potential, just in a tune? Because they are grossly under tuned for emissions and reliability.

The problem is that we have politicians (lawyers, political elites) telling automakers how to build cars, when they have no idea. They just pull a number out of their ass (like CAFE) and require automakers to meet the standards or pay heavy fines.

Anyway, I'm done with this rant...

RIGHT ON!

do it right and buy a P-pump 12 valve.I have had 3 duramax trucks.I am done. I now have a real motor.I do not dislike GM, still have products.I think if you can get your hands on a old diesel at some point do it.By the way I have a lbz with 14000 miles on it forsale......I dont hate just dont want it.four door dually. MINT for real 35,000.00.Good luck.

While we were at the Quarter Horse Congress we talked to the Western Hauler salemaen. They always have a bunch of their trucks there for sale. They used to be pretty much just Fords. But the last three or four years they have more Chevy's. They sell Dodge's Ford's and Chevy's with the Western Hauler packages every year.
I asked the Salesman point blank, which truck was better and what would he buy, and he said without a doubt hands down it would be a Chevy. He towed some trailers from Texas to Ohio for the show and said that the Ford's had good power but they didn't get the milage that the Chevy's were getting. And the Chevy pulled better on long grades and stayed in a higher gear while pulling. And he said they had zero trouble out of the GM products so far. He wouldn't say what problems they had with a couple of Ford's, but you could tell there must have been some issue with a couple of them. He said hand's down Chevy was the winner. 12 years ago they would have scoffed at the Chevy's and told you the Ford was King. He did say that the King Ranch interior although very nice looking didn't hold up very well and faded out. He said he would much rather take in a Ford with a Larriot interior for a trade in than a King Ranch because of that. I like some of Ford's Idea's like the step up tailgate and the gooseneck ball option. I liked the layout of the Fords interior, but I don't think the seats were as comfortable as the GM's.
I know what the allison will do and hold up and I have faith in the Duramax power plant, This combination has certainly proved itself. I think the Jury is still out on the Ford's New Engine and Trans. I hope Ford got it right this time. But to each his own. I think all three are Nice trucks. Like the old saying goes!
Whatever floats your boat, or should I say "Whatever pull's your Boat" LOL

I just can't get enough of my new LML. This truck just runs so good! I pulled my 14K Fifth wheel with my cruise control on just about the whole time up and down some good grades and the truck was flawless in it shifting and my tranny temp only reached 156 deg., water temp 210 deg. I wish it didn't have all the smog stuff on it, but I'm afraid it's the future. When my warranty is up and if they still don't smog in PA I may just rip it off like I did on my LMM.

Drive each one and see what you think. The Ford dealerships down here are loaded with used Duramaxes, LBZ classics, LMM's, ect... I've talked to a couple who have made the switch and are more content than they've been in a long time.

:drinking::bs:Drive each one and see what you think. The Ford dealerships down here are loaded with used Duramaxes, LBZ classics, LMM's, ect... I've talked to a couple who have made the switch and are more content than they've been in a long time.

Drive each one and see what you think. The Ford dealerships down here are loaded with used Duramaxes, LBZ classics, LMM's, ect... I've talked to a couple who have made the switch and are more content than they've been in a long time.

I think I will also throw the bullshit flag. Around here you have a hard time finding any used diesels on the lots.

I think I will also throw the bullshit flag. Around here you have a hard time finding any used diesels on the lots.

There are more Duramaxes on the Ford lots than on the GM lots. Seriously.

The Bullshit flag? Thats funny never heard that one.Personally a diesel on a lot scares me.Buy your truck from a truck guy.

There are more Duramaxes on the Ford lots than on the GM lots. Seriously.

Thats because they are dropping friends off to pick there ford up that have been in the shop:D

I've followed the announcements & reviews of both the new GM and Ford trucks. I even got to chat with the chief engineer of the Ford engine program a couple times and drove one of their demo trucks before they hit the lots. I think both are absolutely outstanding and on paper are neck & neck by about every metric they have.

Differences that I know of:

The Ford has a clean-sheet engine & transmission, while the GM has a brand new frame. In both cases, new means they had a chance to do a lot of things better, but they also had the chance to screw something up. From past history, I'm guessing its easier to screw up and engine and transmission than a frame, but anything's possible. Didn't Toyota just recall a bunch of trucks from frames rusting through?

The Ford uses late injections to regen the DPF, while the GM uses a 9th injector in the exhaust. Between the two, the GM approach is less likely to give you fuel in oil, but there may be other tradeoffs that I don't know about too.

None of the differences are enough to rule out one or the other (to me anyways). If I was in the market, I'd give them both a try and choose based on features, comfort, feel, pricing, etc.

Strange about the used trucks? I hardly ever see any late model used D/Max's on any lots. But I do see lots of Fords. We traded our 07 classic D/Max CC 3500 Dually with 19,000 miles on it for our 2011. The 07 didn't last a day on the lot. People were almost bidding against each other for it. I did see a 6 month old Ford F 350 PS and lots of year old to two year old Ford Power Strokes being traded in for GM products. The Dealer sells all three brands. If you don't beleive it go to Ohio next October to the AQHA and see for yourself. Just the one Dealer there had 155 Diesel on the lot for sale. We rodeo and it is not unusual for someone to go and pull a trailer home for a Ford Owner that has broke down, and I mean time and time again. And that is a fact. Time will tell if the new Fords are better. I used to be a Die Hard Ford Man, but now I just drive what works best for me.
As for me, I won't fly a flag but I will put on my tall boots.I am on the Duramax site aren't I ? Yep I am, for a minute there I thought I was on the Power Choke page "Sorry" LOL !:D

Tell you what! Go test drive one then the other and go with what you feel happy with.

Btw GM went to a hydro bent frame same as dodge did. I am not big on that.

Look at the resale value of a used Ford vs Dodge or GM. No one wants to touch a used ford thast is out of warranty.Ford has the lowest resale value of the big three. Last spring my son was looking for a used diesel and we did alot of research and talked to alot of wholesalers. Everyone knows how reliable a 6.0 is and the 6.4 well just ask a mechanic. I bought a Chevrolet this time around .We wanted a truck that was going to stay on the road not in the shop. I have been very impressed so far. A few things GM could do better, nicer center console, there is no place to put paper work, dash mounted cup holders would be a plus , side curtain air bags should be standard, storage under the center section of the 40/20/40 seat.

Well said Marek and so true! Powerdog, I not only test drove them, I have towed with them. That's why I'm driving a Chevy.
And we run along with other trucks and trailers when we go Horsen around and Rodeoing. When we pull a hill even with more weight on the Duramax's alway's pull away from the Fords. And when we fill up,we use less fuel. And that is a fact.
And I work on these things, so I know what's up with all of them. none of them are perfect, but I know what works best for us.
I'm glad you like your Ford, I hope it give's you great service. Do you own or drive a GM truck? I was just curiuos because I only see a Ford listed on your signature and it's picture. If not, I would think you would be on the Ford page? But Hey this is America and at least for now we still have Free Speech that's what is Great about our Country. :D
I've said all I need to say about it.
Have a good day.:)And don't forget to vote.

We got a 6.0 with 100k on it never seen the garage.

post of the year right here


The newer generation diesels remind me of the emission controls of the early 70's. Every year and every model had different versions of evap(fuel)., mech. and exh. modifications to meet the new emission standards without drastically affecting performance. The results were horrendous. Engine horsepower and fuel economy went into the cellar. Reliability and ease of repair went out the window. Driveability suffered. It took years to get it right.
Now, when the automotive industry and government should be applying the simplicity and reliability of the diesel principle to cars and truck as they have throughout Europe and Asia, our bureaucrats with their rectal vision are determined to kill it by complicating, choking and starving it to death.
Once before the diesel came close to extinction due to the bean counters at GM when they thought it would add millions to their profits by converting an Oldsmobile engine to diesel. The results were as catastrophic as their attempt to grab the rear engine drive concept of the VW Beetle with the Corvair, killing the rear drive market for all but a few cult Beetle fans.
The bureaucrats are killing this country by continually slaughtering the golden geese for their own Utopian agenda's.
The diesel package is a 10K dollar option and the fuel savings is just not there. With all the new and as yet untried emission controls, I fear power and further economy will soon suffer too. Diesel fuel, once considerably cheaper than gasoline is now more expensive. There goes that savings. New technology has made gasoline engines stronger, lighter, more fuel efficient and more powerful. New technology has only been applied to reduce the diesels advantages by encumbering it with bureaucratic hamstrings. Thanks for nothing Uncle Sam! Rant over.

There are more Duramaxes on the Ford lots than on the GM lots. Seriously.

Since you added "seriously" on the end it must be true:rolleyes:

All three makers make a good truck, people should buy whatever they'll be happy with and can get the best deal on rather than following blind brand loyalty and spouting nonsense.

Easy guys I was only stating what I saw. I think it's great that you can get a darn nice used GM HD on a Ford lot these days. But its hard to get rid of them because they are sitting next to the Ford Superduties, which makes them look like a toys. A good friend of mine almost bought a duramax from one of them the other day, but he saw there was a 2009 6.4 powerstroke, there again a no brainer.:p:

Since you added "seriously" on the end it must be true:rolleyes:

All three makers make a good truck, people should buy whatever they'll be happy with and can get the best deal on rather than following blind brand loyalty and spouting nonsense.

No nonsense here bud. I'm a diesel performance addict who happens to know the Fords inside and out. There's no need for me to "try" something different at this point. I also don't consider myself "blind", that's why i've been a member of this site and others for so long.

But it's also hard for me to even argue, because i've been out of the "stock" diesel game for so long. My infamous 6.0 is far more superior to most diesels, and handles rpm's and boost that would make guy's like you grab the oh shit handle, but leave you with a perminant grin.;)

We pull a 4 horse with living quarters about 20,000 miles a year, all over the US (well, east of the Mississippi anyway). I've owned 5 Ford trucks since 1987 (I was a Chevy man starting 1965 but bought my last of them in 1984 - quality was AWFUL). I've also owned 6 Ford cars since 1997 and I still own 2 Ford Tractors. So I'm a Ford man, but I just bought a new 2011 Chevy Duramax TODAY. Here's my experience and thoughts:

1987 F 150 (Gasoline): Great truck, wore engine out in 50,000 miles. Buy a diesel with the right coolers and ruggedness. Just because it can pull it doesn't mean it will last very long.
1994 F 250 (Diesel): Great truck, no turbo a little challenged on hills. But I loved it.
2000 F 250 (Diesel): Turbo really improved it. Daughter drove it all over hell and half of Georgia without problem. I still own it, it's our farm truck, and we send it out to rescue the the trailer when the other trucks have problems.
2006 F 350 (Diesel): Best driving truck I've ever owned, this thing is awesome. But it scares me, 6L maintenance history as an engine is not good. Has had warranty work on head gasket, EGR, turbo. Warranty is running out January 2011, and my daughter drives it all over the eastern US.

When I look at the horse industry, what do my peers drive? For 20 years, 80% Ford, 15% GM, 5% Dodge. Last 5 years - Dodge % increasing a little, GM a lot (but they're hard to find/buy). Lots of Ford production, but they're made in Kentucky and I like that. Sorry, but I buy American; I like having a job.

When I looked at replacing the 2006, or extending the warranty, I concluded:
1. $2400 for 48K miles/48month warranty
2. I needed 4 new rear tires, prob brakes, had original batteries, original unibelt.
3. Buying new vehicle would save equivalent of $6000 in extending warranty and doing normal maintenance on older vehicle and I'd still have an old vehicle; IF I still did my own maintenance, and if I were the driver, I'd have kept my 2006. But it's my daughter driving it at all hours of the day and nite.
4. Dodge has best engine re: maintenance record, required no urea. Trans historically questionable, most "trucklike" of the three. Lowest HP & torque, least comfort.
5. Ford has new "Ford" built diesel. After the 6.0 and the 6.4 (both by International) did I expect Ford to hit a home run the first time they designed a diesel? Not likely. Do you remember the GM fiasco with diesels in the 1980's? Diesel injection for soot trap regen, urea for SCR. Ugh. But the Fords drive like a dream if you're trying one off the showroom floor, and my 2006 was simply outstanding. I'm still a Ford man at heart. Ford only has a 60K mile warranty on the engine.
6. Chevy has new Duramax and new Allison trans - would have bought a used 8-10 if I could have found one, I hate "new" and it drives the salesment nuts. Allison is mechanically good but has had bunch of small defects (like leaks). Diesel injection for soot trap and urea for SCR. Ugh.

I broke all my rules (never buy a new engine and/or trans the first year of production) and bought the Chevy. Wish me luck.

We pull a 4 horse with living quarters about 20,000 miles a year, all over the US (well, east of the Mississippi anyway). I've owned 5 Ford trucks since 1987 (I was a Chevy man starting 1965 but bought my last of them in 1984 - quality was AWFUL). I've also owned 6 Ford cars since 1997 and I still own 2 Ford Tractors. So I'm a Ford man, but I just bought a new 2011 Chevy Duramax TODAY. Here's my experience and thoughts:

1987 F 150 (Gasoline): Great truck, wore engine out in 50,000 miles. Buy a diesel with the right coolers and ruggedness. Just because it can pull it doesn't mean it will last very long.
1994 F 250 (Diesel): Great truck, no turbo a little challenged on hills. But I loved it.
2000 F 250 (Diesel): Turbo really improved it. Daughter drove it all over hell and half of Georgia without problem. I still own it, it's our farm truck, and we send it out to rescue the the trailer when the other trucks have problems.
2006 F 350 (Diesel): Best driving truck I've ever owned, this thing is awesome. But it scares me, 6L maintenance history as an engine is not good. Has had warranty work on head gasket, EGR, turbo. Warranty is running out January 2011, and my daughter drives it all over the eastern US.

When I look at the horse industry, what do my peers drive? For 20 years, 80% Ford, 15% GM, 5% Dodge. Last 5 years - Dodge % increasing a little, GM a lot (but they're hard to find/buy). Lots of Ford production, but they're made in Kentucky and I like that. Sorry, but I buy American; I like having a job.

When I looked at replacing the 2006, or extending the warranty, I concluded:
1. $2400 for 48K miles/48month warranty
2. I needed 4 new rear tires, prob brakes, had original batteries, original unibelt.
3. Buying new vehicle would save equivalent of $6000 in extending warranty and doing normal maintenance on older vehicle and I'd still have an old vehicle; IF I still did my own maintenance, and if I were the driver, I'd have kept my 2006. But it's my daughter driving it at all hours of the day and nite.
4. Dodge has best engine re: maintenance record, required no urea. Trans historically questionable, most "trucklike" of the three. Lowest HP & torque, least comfort.
5. Ford has new "Ford" built diesel. After the 6.0 and the 6.4 (both by International) did I expect Ford to hit a home run the first time they designed a diesel? Not likely. Do you remember the GM fiasco with diesels in the 1980's? Diesel injection for soot trap regen, urea for SCR. Ugh. But the Fords drive like a dream if you're trying one off the showroom floor, and my 2006 was simply outstanding. I'm still a Ford man at heart. Ford only has a 60K mile warranty on the engine.
6. Chevy has new Duramax and new Allison trans - would have bought a used 8-10 if I could have found one, I hate "new" and it drives the salesment nuts. Allison is mechanically good but has had bunch of small defects (like leaks). Diesel injection for soot trap and urea for SCR. Ugh.

I broke all my rules (never buy a new engine and/or trans the first year of production) and bought the Chevy. Wish me luck.Nice any pics

We pull a 4 horse with living quarters about 20,000 miles a year, all over the US (well, east of the Mississippi anyway). I've owned 5 Ford trucks since 1987 (I was a Chevy man starting 1965 but bought my last of them in 1984 - quality was AWFUL). I've also owned 6 Ford cars since 1997 and I still own 2 Ford Tractors. So I'm a Ford man, but I just bought a new 2011 Chevy Duramax TODAY. Here's my experience and thoughts:

1987 F 150 (Gasoline): Great truck, wore engine out in 50,000 miles. Buy a diesel with the right coolers and ruggedness. Just because it can pull it doesn't mean it will last very long.
1994 F 250 (Diesel): Great truck, no turbo a little challenged on hills. But I loved it.
2000 F 250 (Diesel): Turbo really improved it. Daughter drove it all over hell and half of Georgia without problem. I still own it, it's our farm truck, and we send it out to rescue the the trailer when the other trucks have problems.
2006 F 350 (Diesel): Best driving truck I've ever owned, this thing is awesome. But it scares me, 6L maintenance history as an engine is not good. Has had warranty work on head gasket, EGR, turbo. Warranty is running out January 2011, and my daughter drives it all over the eastern US.

When I look at the horse industry, what do my peers drive? For 20 years, 80% Ford, 15% GM, 5% Dodge. Last 5 years - Dodge % increasing a little, GM a lot (but they're hard to find/buy). Lots of Ford production, but they're made in Kentucky and I like that. Sorry, but I buy American; I like having a job.

When I looked at replacing the 2006, or extending the warranty, I concluded:
1. $2400 for 48K miles/48month warranty
2. I needed 4 new rear tires, prob brakes, had original batteries, original unibelt.
3. Buying new vehicle would save equivalent of $6000 in extending warranty and doing normal maintenance on older vehicle and I'd still have an old vehicle; IF I still did my own maintenance, and if I were the driver, I'd have kept my 2006. But it's my daughter driving it at all hours of the day and nite.
4. Dodge has best engine re: maintenance record, required no urea. Trans historically questionable, most "trucklike" of the three. Lowest HP & torque, least comfort.
5. Ford has new "Ford" built diesel. After the 6.0 and the 6.4 (both by International) did I expect Ford to hit a home run the first time they designed a diesel? Not likely. Do you remember the GM fiasco with diesels in the 1980's? Diesel injection for soot trap regen, urea for SCR. Ugh. But the Fords drive like a dream if you're trying one off the showroom floor, and my 2006 was simply outstanding. I'm still a Ford man at heart. Ford only has a 60K mile warranty on the engine.
6. Chevy has new Duramax and new Allison trans - would have bought a used 8-10 if I could have found one, I hate "new" and it drives the salesment nuts. Allison is mechanically good but has had bunch of small defects (like leaks). Diesel injection for soot trap and urea for SCR. Ugh.

I broke all my rules (never buy a new engine and/or trans the first year of production) and bought the Chevy. Wish me luck.


Powerstrokes don't have a 100K mile anymore?

Pretty sure they don't anymore.

All powerstroke's come with a 100k mi warranty.

I thought duramax was all American or so some had me convinced.

Just got the diesel power mag today and noticed this in the Duramax Factory Tour
p61
The forged steel crankshafts begin life at a Sumitomo plant in japan
p62
Isuzu casts the aluminum heads in Japan
Forged rods also from japan


nuff said

Welcome to the Dark side Secretariat !
LOL:D,
I think some people just take some things too seriously sometimes. Good Luck with your New truck. I think you will love it.:)

Whip and Spur. Drive the new one like it's meant to be used. Make it pull they love it. No gasser can hang on like these pull period. Even stock these are the only truck to go in. I'd run a Ford to try that new engine if I had $70k to crap and needed a new truck though. Ford has built a nice F350 no way around it there. Duramax has a player up against it with this Ford gig.

There are more Duramaxes on the Ford lots than on the GM lots. Seriously.

I guess it must differ where you live, because around here I can pretty much spit out my window and hit 5 6.0s for sale for pretty decent prices, but good luck finding a deal on a duramax.

2011 Ford reported 60K miles warranty on engine, 30K/3 yrs all else.

Duramax was 100K on powertrain, not just engine. LOL.

Be careful reading warranties. For instance, on my 2006 waste gate was under warranty, turbo was not at 82,000 miles.

2011 Ford reported 60K miles warranty on engine, 30K/3 yrs all else.

Duramax was 100K on powertrain, not just engine. LOL.

Be careful reading warranties. For instance, on my 2006 waste gate was under warranty, turbo was not at 82,000 miles.


6.0's don't have waste gates... And I know of a guy who had a turbo warrentied after 90K miles. With just the $100 deductable.

May need to throw your reading glasses on as well, i'm pretty sure all Ford diesels come with 100K mile warrenty. I doubt they would slice into that.

6.0's don't have waste gates... And I know of a guy who had a turbo warrentied after 90K miles. With just the $100 deductable.

May need to throw your reading glasses on as well, i'm pretty sure all Ford diesels come with 100K mile warrenty. I doubt they would slice into that.


You are right ALL powerstrokes have a 100K mi warranty. That does include the turbo.

Disagree, check the 2011's.

RE: Deductible, if I've gotta pay the $100 (which I did), it ain't under warranty.

All powerstroke's come with a 100k mi warranty.

I thought duramax was all American or so some had me convinced.

Just got the diesel power mag today and noticed this in the Duramax Factory Tour
p61

p62


nuff said

The Ford Scorpion Engine is assembled in Mexico,

of course my Cummins is made in America and promptly shipped down to Mexico where the truck is assembled,, look under your hood at various hoses, clamps, whatever, might see China, India, who knows. Having these parts made in Japan isn't such a bad thing, they make some good stuff. One of the reasons the Duramax was successful was the Izuzu connection.

Disagree, check the 2011's.

RE: Deductible, if I've gotta pay the $100 (which I did), it ain't under warranty.

6.7L powerstroke warranty, 5 year 100k warranty on the engine. 60k mi on the whole drivetrain.

READ THIS!!
page 24
http://www.fordvehicles.com/resources/ford/general/pdf/2011Warranty.pdf#page=1&zoom=100,0,0

The Ford Scorpion Engine is assembled in Mexico,

of course my Cummins is made in America and promptly shipped down to Mexico where the truck is assembled,, look under your hood at various hoses, clamps, whatever, might see China, India, who knows. Having these parts made in Japan isn't such a bad thing, they make some good stuff. One of the reasons the Duramax was successful was the Izuzu connection.

You are right, just think it is funny how a lot of GM guys will try to cover up the Isuzu and japan fact.

thats true... a lot of GM guys do try to cover it... some of them even make fun of other people that driving with engines that are not truly american made.

Who cares dont listen to dumb and dumber you made the right choice

6.0's don't have waste gates... And I know of a guy who had a turbo warrentied after 90K miles. With just the $100 deductable.

May need to throw your reading glasses on as well, i'm pretty sure all Ford diesels come with 100K mile warrenty. I doubt they would slice into that.



thats true

thats true... a lot of GM guys do try to cover it... some of them even make fun of other people that driving with engines that are not truly american made.


And thats is really true.
Just look at Honda/Toyota,the most reliable engines.
Nothing wrong with Isuzu,one of the best,old diesel company.

And thats is really true.
Just look at Honda/Toyota,the most reliable engines.
Nothing wrong with Isuzu,one of the best,old diesel company.

Agreed They are good at making engines.

Is this a real question?????? Plus Dealer world and popular mechanics are owned by ford!!!!!!!

Well, I worked at a GM dealership and had good luck with the D max ( have a 02 w/165000miles on the clock) but recently started at Ford and the truck is awesome, most certainly on par with the GM, and yes, we currently have 3 or 4 07 and up Duramax trades on the lot.

Interesting is what I hear at least once a week from customers that would not consider a GM because of them taken bailout money and/or are run by the current administration.

All powerstroke's come with a 100k mi warranty.

I thought duramax was all American or so some had me convinced.

Just got the diesel power mag today and noticed this in the Duramax Factory Tour
p61

p62


nuff said

You are right, just think it is funny how a lot of GM guys will try to cover up the Isuzu and japan fact.

whats wrong with Japanese made steel? remember after we bombed the hell out of those countries we rebuilt their steel shops bigger and better then ours:D also i agree with the covering up it makes me laugh yeah so what if our engine is half Japanese by both parts and design, they still kick ass besides most of the rest of the truck is made and or assembled in japan or china or other foreign countries that mass produce electronics:p:

I guess it must differ where you live, because around here I can pretty much spit out my window and hit 5 6.0s for sale for pretty decent prices, but good luck finding a deal on a duramax.

X2 same here i have 3 commercial/fleet dealerships and 2 regular fleet dealerships by my home and all of them are fairly flooded with 6.0s

Not a thing wrong with japan! I have said this before if I had a dmx it would sport a Isuzu plate on the front.

I hope Ford get the 6.7 right , they know if that motor fails then they will loose a ton of buyers. They have lost alot already with thier past enginge troubles and some of just want to try something different for a while. You need to try something new every now and again. I like my Ford trucks but have grown tierd of the dumb stuff. Change the frame mounted fuel filter on a few 6.0 trucks that is mounted behind a skid plate sideways on a frame rail and let fuel run down your arm, or how about the fact that the oil pans on 7.3 trucks rust out and when they do you have to pull the motor out of the truck in order to replace a 130.00 pan so it becomes a 2500.00 job. My 07 350 lariet has been in the shop several times for lack of power , bad o rings on injectors , a 700.00 in tank fuel pump that wasnt covered under warranty , the dash goes in and out which is also a whell known problem yet they will not stand behind it. The 4x4 not going in and out also a well known problem . Last fall I went to tow my inlaws boat back to FL for them and the truck broke down in the bank parking lot before we could even leave, so I took my wifes new Suburban. My 07 dosnt get worked other than plowing and only has 82k on it and I have never put any kind of chip in any truck.A truck being reliable is much more important to me than a little extra power. I have an 08 450 that the AC granaded and still leaks out , had to have a new drive shaft since the original came from the factory unbalanced and now the rear is making noise, this truck has 18 k on it. My 02 550 7.3 has a folder on it over a inch thick. From day one the truck had no power was in and out of the shop every year, had what Ford calls a rough idle. Well just berfore it went out of warranty it was put in the shop and told to keep it till you get it right, 68 days later it was back. The shop told Ford it needed a new motor and they wouldnt do it, but they did throw 6k in parts at it trying to make it right "all the engineer from Fords idea" then we get to the fuel tank delaminating, there goes another 2500 for a tank and pump. With in 12k miles the motor went out, so in with a new 7.3, now we have had a few moduals go out for 5-6 hundred each. Next we find out that the new tank that is 2 years old is rusting out from the inside out sending rust threw the filters again. I could go on and on with these trucks . Any brand can have problems but right now I am going to try the GM and see how it holds up. Everytime I walk into my Ford shop there are diesels lined up from 7.3s to 6.4s lots of new 6.4 motors being replaced. Yet they did say they have not had a 6.7 in yet for any sort of problems...................... YET.

GM is still using the tried and true Duramax Diesel engine while Ford is on their FOURTH experimental Diesel engine. Do you really want to pay $60K to do Ford's research and development for them? Wait two years before considering the SupreDuty. My .02.

And if you are going to purchase a dually...Have you guys seen the 2011 SuperDuty's rear fenders??? Butt Ugly!

Amen !

Remember that Ford is the company that designed 2 back to back gassers (5.4) and they couldn't even get the spark plugs right. In the first one they would shoot out randomly, and the second they are damn near impossible to get out. It took 20 hours to change 8 plugs in the one I had. Ford won't even give you an estimate for a plug change.

It will be a while before I forgive them for that.

GM is still using the tried and true Duramax Diesel engine while Ford is on their FOURTH experimental Diesel engine. Do you really want to pay $60K to do Ford's research and development for them? Wait two years before considering the SupreDuty. My .02.

And if you are going to purchase a dually...Have you guys seen the 2011 SuperDuty's rear fenders??? Butt Ugly!

The 7.3 Powerstroke was ruling the roost for nine years. The Duramax has only been out for nine years, it has also undergone it's fair share of changes and working out the kinks.

Look at the lly and the lb7 problems. I'll keep my 6.0l

Now there is something I agree with. The 7.3 was a good engine.:D

Look at the lly and the lb7 problems. I'll keep my 6.0l

I had my LLY for 6 years and had not a SINGLE problem with it.

I had my LLY for 6 years and had not a SINGLE problem with it.

Then a guy I know toasted his LLY just pulling a car hauler.

Then a guy I know toasted his LLY just pulling a car hauler.

And l know a guy who needed his 6.0 replacing after pulling out of the showroom too quickly...what's you point with these "anecdotes"?

All I know is I'd be scared to drive the 6.0L anywhere if I owned one, Id constantly be worrying when it will be break down......

All I know is I'd be scared to drive the 6.0L anywhere if I owned one, Id constantly be worrying when it will be break down......

They are 100% dependable. After putting close to 100k on my 6.0 l it never let me sit once. Same for the 06 we got has 100k mi on it and runs a 150hp tune every day, never been back to ford for nuthin.
After 05 the 6.0l had the least amount of warrant work of all fords vehicles. I'll keep the 6.0l :D btw I daily drive my truck and it runs 12's and is a 7300lb truck.

In all fairness, my 6.0 was a great truck. I was just scared to keep it when it was going out of warranty because of the maintenance history on that engine. While we had some mechanical issues, it was the strongest truck, best riding truck I've ever owned. Ford treated us very well, so the new Chevy's got some big shoes to fill.

In all fairness, my 6.0 was a great truck. I was just scared to keep it when it was going out of warranty because of the maintenance history on that engine. While we had some mechanical issues, it was the strongest truck, best riding truck I've ever owned. Ford treated us very well, so the new Chevy's got some big shoes to fill.
Keep us posted and by the way if you havent notice powerpuff is the fourms ford cheerleader:D

I used to think I was getting pretty good milage out of our trucks,
But I'm getting way more milage outa these Ford guy's and having a "Hoot" doing it. LOL.
But don't fear, cause they will break down sooner or later or at least need a set of head gaskets and ARP studs! "Ha Ha"
Besides Old Duramax's never die, they just Re Gen. Good Day!

powerpuff):h

What are you talking about? Your post makes no sense!

Back in the 70's a 350 was making 130 hp with the emissions crap. Now we have a clean burning diesel making 400 hp/ 765 tq? Seems like a win win to me...no black smoke screwing up the environment and tons of power?

Gas motors are also at their peak. My corvette makes 505 hp and has great emissions. Even your garden variety V6 is making 300 hp.

I don't understand why people want to remove emissions equipment that is not compromising the performance of the vehicle. Why destroy the environment? Even a dog knows not to shit in his own doghouse.

Tim
Have you ever noticed how much better they perform without all the emissions bs?

Have you ever noticed how much better they perform without all the emissions bs?

The new truck's are better than they've ever been in stock form.

Easy guys I was only stating what I saw. I think it's great that you can get a darn nice used GM HD on a Ford lot these days. But its hard to get rid of them because they are sitting next to the Ford Superduties, which makes them look like a toys. A good friend of mine almost bought a duramax from one of them the other day, but he saw there was a 2009 6.4 powerstroke, there again a no brainer.:p:
Several years ago a ford dealer close to us got a Duramax traded in cuz the chevy dealer didnt give the guy as good a deal as the ford dealer did. They proudly parked it out front where every body could see that they had this truck traded in. They ended up taking it and selling it out right to the local chevy dealer because they lost too many customer who came looking for a ford and seeing the chevy sitting there they asked to drive it too for comparison and ended up driving to the chevy dealer and ordering a new duramax truck. Ford gets high sales numbers because they can usually beat gm an dodge on the fleet bids. As far as gm diesels on ford lots, Im not seeing it in my area at all and I make my living on the road, in diesel pickups with trailers and in all kinds of invironments.

You are right, just think it is funny how a lot of GM guys will try to cover up the Isuzu and japan fact.
Why try to cover it up? Nobody builds diesels like ISUZU.

They are 100% dependable. After putting close to 100k on my 6.0 l it never let me sit once. Same for the 06 we got has 100k mi on it and runs a 150hp tune every day, never been back to ford for nuthin.
After 05 the 6.0l had the least amount of warrant work of all fords vehicles. I'll keep the 6.0l :D btw I daily drive my truck and it runs 12's and is a 7300lb truck.
So you replaced all the problem areas with aftermarket upgrades:D

The new truck's are better than they've ever been in stock form.
And so much better after you castrate the emissions crap off of them.

Why try to cover it up? Nobody builds diesels like ISUZU.

That is true! I say they are better than cummins by a long shot.

Remember that Ford is the company that designed 2 back to back gassers (5.4) and they couldn't even get the spark plugs right. In the first one they would shoot out randomly, and the second they are damn near impossible to get out. It took 20 hours to change 8 plugs in the one I had. Ford won't even give you an estimate for a plug change.

It will be a while before I forgive them for that.

You make a great point. The Ford guys keep saying that the 2011 Scorpion is so great because it's exclusively Fords design and build this time and not some Navistar POS. That would give me no confidence in buying a Super Duty at all. It's those same great Ford engineers that designed the sparkplug spitters that also designed the scorpion. :eek:

By the way, I guarantee you that Ford had alot of say in the Navistar 6.0/6.4 designs. Do you seriously think that Ford just called up the guys at International/Navistar one day and said: "hey guys we need a new diesel engine for our Super Duty, we don't want any say in the matter, we trust you, so send us whatever ya got?" :confused:

I think the 7.3 was an exclusive Navistar design/build with no Ford influence. That's why the 7.3 has the solid history. :)

Here's my parting shot: With all that said I truly hope that Ford hits a home run with the 2011 Super Duty thus raising the bar for the big 3 and diesel pickup trucks. Competition is great for us consumers.

Did Ford build any diesels in the past or its just their first in house diesel engine?

Did Ford build any diesels in the past or its just their first in house diesel engine?

No. It's been Navistar-International producing diesel engines for Ford dating back to the early 1980's with the 6.9L being the first Ford diesel offering.

Did Ford build any diesels in the past or its just their first in house diesel engine?

Ford has built a lot of diesels out side the US, "Duratorq TDCi diesel engine" is one of them. They are all pretty good motors.

After reading 9 pages of opinions, here is one for you. Why spend the extra money for a diesel when a gasser lasts just as long with far less maintenance costs?

Yes they tow better, but unless your business is towing, believe they cost too much, and now the urea???

I had the same dilema and went with the Ford. I had an 06 F-250 with the 6.0 and had no issues. The deciding factors for me were the interior of the Ford was roomier and met my needs, the fifth wheel prep package made my life much easier (no more bed rails), the power of the Ford felt on par with the GMC I drove (although the GMC may have felt a bit stronger), I did not like the location of the def tank on the GMC (seemed to exposed to road debris) and I was able to buy the Ford at a much better price than the GMC. I think both companies make a great product and problems are going to be had with anything built by man. I think the pickuptrucks.com article said it best. All the trucks are great products, it might just come down to who offers you the best deal. Good luck!!!!!

After reading 9 pages of opinions, here is one for you. Why spend the extra money for a diesel when a gasser lasts just as long with far less maintenance costs?

Yes they tow better, but unless your business is towing, believe they cost too much, and now the urea???


The diesel pays for itself in resale value, almost dollar for dollar of what you paid for it

Gassers don't live 300 to 500,000 miles, typically

800 lbs of torque comes in very handy

a 11 diesel will do a hill in OD, that a gasser cant do in 4th

Or get 20+MPG

The Urea is a non factor

The diesel pays for itself in resale value, almost dollar for dollar of what you paid for it

Gassers don't live 300 to 500,000 miles, typically

800 lbs of torque comes in very handy

a 11 diesel will do a hill in OD, that a gasser cant do in 4th

Or get 20+MPG

The Urea is a non factor

I agree, esp with the first point. Resale resale resale, NOBODY wants a gas-powered HD pickup on the used market. If you have the $$ when buying, there is NO downside to the diesel. All the talk of them being hard to maintain or needing to be driven daily and driven hard is a TOTAL MYTH, certainly for the Cummins 5.9, PSD 6.4 and all versions of the Dmx anyway.

I also agree with RacerXray above who chose a new Super duty. They are all good trucks so give your money to the dealer who offers the best deal.

powerdog....so you know, Ford's European 1.8TDCI and 2.0TDCI are called DuraTECs. They are indeed good and reliable engines, very similar to the VAG group's 2.0tdi which is no mean feat.

I agree, esp with the first point. Resale resale resale, NOBODY wants a gas-powered HD pickup on the used market. If you have the $$ when buying, there is NO downside to the diesel. All the talk of them being hard to maintain or needing to be driven daily and driven hard is a TOTAL MYTH, certainly for the Cummins 5.9, PSD 6.4 and all versions of the Dmx anyway.

I also agree with RacerXray above who chose a new Super duty. They are all good trucks so give your money to the dealer who offers the best deal.

powerdog....so you know, Ford's European 1.8TDCI and 2.0TDCI are called DuraTECs. They are indeed good and reliable engines, very similar to the VAG group's 2.0tdi which is no mean feat.


yeah,Ford Duratec is a gas engine,powerdog is right,The Ford Duratorq engine, commonly referred to as Duratorq, is the marketing name of a range of Ford diesel engines first introduced in 2000 for the Ford Mondeo range of cars.

1.4 "Tiger"
The Duratorq DLD-414 (or DV4) is a 1.4 L, straight-4 turbo-Diesel.

1.6 "Tiger"
The DLD-416 (or DV6) is a 1.6 L

1.8 "Lynx"
The Duratorq DLD-418 is a 1.8 L


Having a diesel history in the past I don't understand why International build Diesels for Ford:confuzeld

yeah,Ford Duratec is a gas engine,powerdog is right,The Ford Duratorq engine, commonly referred to as Duratorq, is the marketing name of a range of Ford diesel engines first introduced in 2000 for the Ford Mondeo range of cars.

Having a diesel history in the past I don't understand why International build Diesels for Ford:confuzeld

Right you both are, at least I wasn't bashing him at all or I'd look a fool. I agree, the in-house knowledge is there at Ford. My guess is they are/were uncomfortable with the bigger capacity 350CI and above engines.

Have you ever noticed how much better they perform without all the emissions bs?

No I have not. I am new to diesels, but I can say that I have a corvette C5 race car that still has the cats and emissions equipment on it. I never removed the cats because they help reduce the sound and I am nearly at the power limit for my class. Removing them would only free up about 5 hp at best.

How much hp/Tq do you think would be freed up removing the emissions equipment on a duramax? My bet is that it would be insignificant.

Tim

No I have not. I am new to diesels, but I can say that I have a corvette C5 race car that still has the cats and emissions equipment on it. I never removed the cats because they help reduce the sound and I am nearly at the power limit for my class. Removing them would only free up about 5 hp at best.

How much hp/Tq do you think would be freed up removing the emissions equipment on a duramax? My bet is that it would be insignificant.

Tim

15% increase in fuel economy in an lmm at work really opened my eyes an we haven't even blocked the egr yet. It has a lot more power too.