Hey guys I have been using Mobil 1 turbo diesel since about 1000 miles in my truck in sig. Problem is can't find it anywhere in so cal anymore. Spoke with Mobil 1 kind of a joke no help didn't know anything about their own products talked with a truck stop supplier said they could get it and today they tell me it's no longer available. Any one know anything bout this used to be able to get it at Wally world of kragen now nothing. Should I just switch oil and to what brand... This sucks.

The only place that I can find it is Advance Auto Parts and AutoZone.

I switched to Delo 400 after I couldn't find diesel Mobil 1 anymore. I still use Mobil 1 in my gassers.

If I can help or you would like any Amsoil info and discounted pricing- PM me.

I suggest you first define your maintenance plan.

Do you need such an expensive product, or do you just "want" it?

If you do not go any further than 10k miles on your OCIs, then it is highly likely you're spending way too much money on oil. Consider switching to a conventional oil product from any of the major oil brands. In all honesty, I suspect you "want" synthetics, but actually have zero need for them. There are PLENTY of UOAs here to prove that short-to-moderate OCIs are well within the performance capabilities of dino oils, every bit as good as synthetics, under these conditions.

If you are going to greatly extend your OCI, then M1 TDT is still available, often at WallyWorld and major auto-parts houses, as you said. If they don't stock it, that does not mean you can't order it (but will likely have to pay full retail price when ordering). You don't indicate which "Riverside" CA town you're in (there are three in mapquest), but they are all near MAJOR city markets (LA, Sacramento, Modesto). You can't find TDT anywhere? I just located M1 TDT (part number 98HM64) online at AZ. You can have it shipped to your local store. Same goes for AAP. Often, if you give the UPC code to WalMart, they can have it shipped to your local store as well.

Or, you can choose products such as Amsoil; we have fine vendors here.

Do as you see fit.

flo jo, I am riverside ca too part of the week (behind mission inn),
I would find a Mobil auth dealer and call them, I found mine on the mobil website.
also as others have pointed out, wallys carry them.

Hey guys I have been using Mobil 1 turbo diesel since about 1000 miles in my truck in sig. Problem is can't find it anywhere in so cal anymore. Spoke with Mobil 1 kind of a joke no help didn't know anything about their own products talked with a truck stop supplier said they could get it and today they tell me it's no longer available. Any one know anything bout this used to be able to get it at Wally world of kragen now nothing. Should I just switch oil and to what brand... This sucks.
Wally World or Canadian Tire..................................

Keep your eye on Autozone. Several times a year they have a deal: 5 quarts of Mobil 1 (including TDT), plus a Mobil 1 filter, for $29.99

I suggest you first define your maintenance plan.

Do you need such an expensive product, or do you just "want" it?

If you do not go any further than 10k miles on your OCIs, then it is highly likely you're spending way too much money on oil. Consider switching to a conventional oil product from any of the major oil brands. In all honesty, I suspect you "want" synthetics, but actually have zero need for them. There are PLENTY of UOAs here to prove that short-to-moderate OCIs are well within the performance capabilities of dino oils, every bit as good as synthetics, under these conditions.

If you are going to greatly extend your OCI, then M1 TDT is still available, often at WallyWorld and major auto-parts houses, as you said. If they don't stock it, that does not mean you can't order it (but will likely have to pay full retail price when ordering). You don't indicate which "Riverside" CA town you're in (there are three in mapquest), but they are all near MAJOR city markets (LA, Sacramento, Modesto). You can't find TDT anywhere? I just located M1 TDT (part number 98HM64) online at AZ. You can have it shipped to your local store. Same goes for AAP. Often, if you give the UPC code to WalMart, they can have it shipped to your local store as well.

Or, you can choose products such as Amsoil; we have fine vendors here.

Do as you see fit.

I know you are against synthetic oil for some unknown reason, but Mobil 1 is actually pretty inexpensive. It costs me less than $25, to change the oil in my gasser AND I extend the OCI, plus it quieted my engine a bit and raised my oil pressure a tad. After seeing the tests on an oil machine in my engine building class with conventional vs synthetic, its a win win.

The last couple of times I changed my oil, I have been using Amsoil. I've checked Mobil 1 prices and at AutoZone and Wallyworld, it's only slightly cheaper than Amsoil, like about $.50 a qt. less. It seems that Mobil1, Rotella T and Royal Purple have all gone up in price lately. I'm thinking seriously of going back to dino oil and cutting my oil change intervals back to 3K.

3k on dino? blasphemy, why not invest in an oil analysis and let that guide your decision on how long to run your dino.

I know you are against synthetic oil for some unknown reason, but Mobil 1 is actually pretty inexpensive. It costs me less than $25, to change the oil in my gasser AND I extend the OCI, plus it quieted my engine a bit and raised my oil pressure a tad. After seeing the tests on an oil machine in my engine building class with conventional vs synthetic, its a win win.


1) I am not "against synthetics"
2) The reasons I give are always well thought out and explained

I suspect it is you who is (what I like to call) an "oil biggot". You seem to be under the impression that synthetics are the "best" for all situations.

Why would you bring up the cost of a PAO in a gasser? What relevance does that have? Even it you are going to do so, you give no frame of reference for how much oil your $25 will buy, nor what OCI you run. What does "extended OCI" mean to you? 5k miles? 10k miles? 20k miles? more? Do you realize that to break even, or "gain" on your ROI, you must extend your OCI at least equal to the investment. If you spend 3x the money on a synthetic, you should expect to get either get:
a) three times less wear
or
b) three times greater OCI for that same level of wear, comparitively
So, in regard to a Dmax, which evidence shows can easily go 10k miles on normal oil changes, you'd have to go 30k miles to break even on your investment. And that is not even taking into account the filtration issues.

Let's stick to FACTS. Look at all the recent dino UOAs over the last six months posted here, and show me conclusive proof that the synthetic UOAs are 3x "better" in wear reduction, and/or contamination contol, for the 3x the cost ratio spent, in short to moderate OCIs. Don't give me sales hype or other rhetoric. PROOF is what convinces people. Proof is what convinced me. I used to be, many years ago, an oil biggot myself, falsely believing that synthetics were the answer to everything. Then I eductated myself on the realities of lubricant performance and measurement techniques including oil analysis and teardown anaylsis.

Ironically, you do mention extending your OCI, which is EXACTLY what I profess synthetics are good for. So if you think I'm "against synthetics" you clearly don't thoroughly read my posts. Seemingly, you and I quite likely are in agreement, and you don't even recognize that fact ...

I am not "against synthetics"; they have their proper applications. I even use them in some situations. But they are NOT an "end all, be all" answer to everything.

I wasn't insulting you or anything. It just seems like you always put people down who use synthetics. Last time I checked, synthetic is not 3x more than a good dino oil. Maybe Golden State oil.

I actually do listen to you because you seem to be very knowledgeable with oil. We run both synthetic and conventional oil on our vehicles.

Ever since I saw a demonstration on oil in my engine rebuilding class, I have a deeper respect for synthetic. They basically put oil in a machine on a bearing and then added weight to the machinethat pressed against the bearing until it stopped. Most conventional oils took only 2 weights. Synthetic took 5 weights. AND when they squirted gasoline on the bearing, the oil did not wash off(except for Royal Purple). The dino oil washed off the bearing.

This, along with extended OCI, offset the small extra cost and is well worth it in my mind.

This is what shaped my perspective.

Take it easy,
-Brad

P.S. This was alot to type on my phone. :)

Brad that is very good information and coming from an independent party (you) first hand being able to watch and perform the testing comparing conventional oil to synthetic.

After seeing the test, Amsoil and Mobil 1 each took 5 weights to make the machine stop, and did NOT wash away after being squirted with gasoline. Royal Purple would have been good if you have no fuel in the oil...

[quote=Brad92;4047841]I wasn't insulting you or anything. It just seems like you always put people down who use synthetics. Last time I checked, synthetic is not 3x more than a good dino oil. Maybe Golden State oil.

I actually do listen to you because you seem to be very knowledgeable with oil. We run both synthetic and conventional oil on our vehicles.

Ever since I saw a demonstration on oil in my engine rebuilding class, I have a deeper respect for synthetic. They basically put oil in a machine on a bearing and then added weight to the machinethat pressed against the bearing until it stopped. Most conventional oils took only 2 weights. Synthetic took 5 weights. AND when they squirted gasoline on the bearing, the oil did not wash off(except for Royal Purple). The dino oil washed off the bearing.

This, along with extended OCI, offset the small extra cost and is well worth it in my mind.

This is what shaped my perspective.

quote]



OK – first things first. I want to offer any apology necessary to make sure we’re not taunting each other. This should be about the fair and reasonable exchange of good information, and the repudiation of any bad info. That being said, let’s move on.

The engine demonstration you saw is very, very popular with many upscale synthetic fluids such as RP, RL and other boutique fluids. It’s also completely worthless and misleading. Here’s why …

There are two ways to get lube onto a bearing surface. One is splash/vapor type and one is pressure fed. Splash/vapor type is very popular on small single cylinder engines such as lawn mowers (splash) and chain saws (two-strokes). But the VAST majority of engines use pressure fed systems, as does the Dmax. So, especially since this is a GM diesel truck forum, I’m going to ignore the former and stick with the later.

Splash/vapor lubrication relies upon fairly loose tolerances to allow the oil mist to be carried into the bearing area (working their way in from the outside). Pressure fed systems (obviously) are metered in such a manner as to flow the opposite direction (fed in, pushed out) in a VERY consistent and reliable method.

The “experiment” you saw was loading a moment arm with a force and creating a friction load onto a running shaft, was it not? That is NOT the same thing as pressure fed lubrication. It IS admittedly what happens to a bearing before the pressurized lube gets there, but you would certainly admit that ANY amount of ANY lube is enough to reduce wear for the few seconds of start up, and that is ALWAYS when the bulk of wear happens, and even synthetics only do moderately well with no pressure. So, in essence, what you saw was a demonstration of what happens under ultra-high loads with no oil pressure. If this happens in your Dmax, and you continue to operate it with no oil pressure showing on the gage and the little red light does not go out, then you’re asking for trouble. But that is NOT the normal operation of any pressure fed system. There is typically plenty of residual oil left standing around the bearings to protect during that critical initial moment. If this were not true, then ALL equipment would fail in short order.

So let’s look at how the pressure fed system works. After just a couple of seconds, the oil pressure is present. Then, the parts float upon a hydro-dynamic wedge of oil. That oil barrier is very critical and also very reliable. There are likely hundreds of millions of pieces of equipment that use this principal of lubrication. Synthetics have little to no advantage once the wedge is in place. This is exactly why you see UOA evidence comparing conventional oils and synthetic oils, with practically no wear differences.

As for the lubes being “washed off” with gasoline, you must consider the relative quantity of fuel to lube. To “wash off” lube you’re talking about a HUGE percentage of fuel to oil, in a ratio large enough to be inverse of what we see in a UOA. They may have put a few ounces of oil on the bearing surface, and then used several times that amount to wash it off. I really don’t care if the synthetic stayed on there or not. Typically, when fuel reaches 5% of the total volume of oil, you’re in for trouble in short order. When they “washed” the bearing in the little experiment you saw, would it be fair to say that they FAR exceeded the 5% guideline, perhaps setting the total volume at 100%, or 200%? That is NOT relevant in any lube system I’m aware of.

Make sense? You saw an awesome demonstration of how synthetic lubes might save your engine, if you continue to run it without oil pressure, or dump 2.5 gallons of fuel in with your 2.5 gallons of lube oil. What you saw is an excellent example of how synthetics can outperform conventional lubes in stupid-extreme, not-real-world scenarios. I don’t know about you, but that’s not how I operate my equipment. :eek: When I speak of "sales hype, rhetoric and mythology" these are EXACTLY the type issues I'm describing. People see something impressive (like it's a side show at the freak carinaval), and then take it as gospel without applying any logic to the conditions put forth. This little "experiment" is targeted to make a very impressive effect, but represents nothing of reality.



On a separate note, it seems we have to rehash this whole “cost” thing about once every quarter. I have shown many times that the FAIR cost ratio (depending upon which products you purchase) is about 3:1. Synthetics are typically at least 3x more expensive than quality dino oils. You must make sure to compare relative costs. If you want to speak of retail shelf prices, then dino oils are around $2.50/qrt and premium PAO synthetics are around $7.50/qrt. That is a 3x ratio. If you want to talk about sales prices, then you can get dino for less, and synthetics for less. But it is all relative. The ratio can be, depending upon product, anywhere from 3:1 to 4:1 on any given day. Let me give you a specific example of “on sale” products: last year I got Devlac 1300 on sale two-for-one; that is around $1.63/qrt. You would have to be able to purchase Amsoil, Mobil TDT, or RL, or RP for $4.89/qrt, to be at 3x the price.

I wasn't insulting you or anything. It just seems like you always put people down who use synthetics. Last time I checked, synthetic is not 3x more than a good dino oil. Maybe Golden State oil.

I actually do listen to you because you seem to be very knowledgeable with oil. We run both synthetic and conventional oil on our vehicles.

Ever since I saw a demonstration on oil in my engine rebuilding class, I have a deeper respect for synthetic. They basically put oil in a machine on a bearing and then added weight to the machinethat pressed against the bearing until it stopped. Most conventional oils took only 2 weights. Synthetic took 5 weights. AND when they squirted gasoline on the bearing, the oil did not wash off(except for Royal Purple). The dino oil washed off the bearing.

This, along with extended OCI, offset the small extra cost and is well worth it in my mind.

This is what shaped my perspective.

Take it easy,
-Brad

P.S. This was alot to type on my phone. :)

Hey Brad, That demonstration you refer to isn't trustworthy. (no pun intended)
Years ago our maintenance superintendent bought into that very demonstration and switched the lube of many high dollar industrial engines based on that test. To make a long story short we had to rebuild several engines as the result. Once we switched back and our problems quickly ceased. Due to all the hype many employees also switched lubes in their personal vehicles and also had problems. I was one of those employees. I can share my story if you would like. Bottom line is that test is smoke and mirrors and not recognized by the API for good reason. Like I said.. No pun intended.. Just sharing my experience :). I posted about that test before and still have a copy along with happened to my truck. Just let me know and I will be more than happy to post it.

I would like to read your story on what happen to you when you switched oils. On another note I don't think synthetics are 3x more. Rotella 15-40 $11.50 Wal-Mart everyday. Then rotella 5-40 synthetic $19.50 Wal-Mart everyday.

Hey Brad, That demonstration you refer to isn't trustworthy. (no pun intended)
Years ago our maintenance superintendent bought into that very demonstration and switched the lube of many high dollar industrial engines based on that test. To make a long story short we had to rebuild several engines as the result. Once we switched back and our problems quickly ceased. Due to all the hype many employees also switched lubes in their personal vehicles and also had problems. I was one of those employees.

Soooooo, now we've come full circle to where conventional oils are not merely just as good, but synthetics actually will destroy your engine. I am going out right now and pull my drain plug

I am not really sure how synthetic oil will destroy a engine. I have not had my truck that long, but I plan on using rotella t6 5-40 synthetic. It can get nice and cold in the winter and I don't plan to put that many miles on the truck a year. so for me I will pay the little bit more for the oil. Why where on this, why have I always herd that after a certin amount of time your oil needs to be changed? Will the oil go bad just setting in the truck un-used? I will be having my oil tested when I change it, but I do not plan on paying a extra 10 bucks to see how much life is left in the oil, I don't think that will be a problem for me.

I was paying $14 for 5 quarts of dino and I now pay $20 for 5 quarts of synthetic. Cost is not an issue. Its a little over a dollar more.

As for fuel dilution, I would rather have the protection if our LB7 decides to dump diesel in the oil (admittedly, its not as bad as gasoline).

If synthetic does not provide superior lubrication, why are more and more auto manufacturers switching to syn? Mobil 1 is recommended by Porsche, and factory fill synthetics are common because they last longer, cool better, and provide better lubrication. Not to say that it is the end all be all, or dino is bad, its just that synthetic is better.

Look, when I said that very test I meant it as the test. Not the media being tested. If someone performs a UOA on synthetic oil it doesn't mean all UOA's default to synthetic during discussions. Frankly I was just sharing the experience I had with the validity of a test. I wasn't calling out Brad or anyone else using synthetics when doing so. I have absolutely nothing against synthetic oil and I made that clear more than once over the years. I actually use synthetic everywhere except my engine. If I misled anyone I apologize for that but it wasn't me who drew 1st blood. It's now starting to bother me that this thread has drifted of topic. Out of respect for the OP how about if we stop this nonsense.

Hey guys I have been using Mobil 1 turbo diesel since about 1000 miles in my truck in sig. Problem is can't find it anywhere in so cal anymore. Spoke with Mobil 1 kind of a joke no help didn't know anything about their own products talked with a truck stop supplier said they could get it and today they tell me it's no longer available. Any one know anything bout this used to be able to get it at Wally world of kragen now nothing. Should I just switch oil and to what brand... This sucks.


FloJo, I ran into the same problem. My last oil change I put in Rotella synthetic oil. Comes in handy galllon size containers. I always hated walking out with 11 quarts of oil.

It's now starting to bother me that this thread has drifted of topic. Out of respect for the OP how about if we stop this nonsense.

I agree.

Posts have been deleted, and this thread will continue on topic or my intervention will be far more noticeable.

-Peter

I don't know what got deleted, but I agree we should stay on topic. However, consider this:

Let's review the OP's post ... Out of several sentences, he only asked two questions in the last sentence:
"Should I just switch oil and to what brand..."

That pretty much opens it up to free and open discussion, sticking to the OP's questions. If site rules are broken, then moderation is just; if not, then it should be left alone because the OP's questions are about as broad as the sky over the high plains.

Back on topic. Regarding the costs of synthetics, there is a DISTINCT difference between RTS (now called T6) and PAO synthetics. If you go back and read CAREFULLY through my threads, I'm comparing the cost of PAO synthetics to that of dino oils when speaking of the 3x ratio. What this really shows is that some of you think you know about oils because you read a tid-bit here and there, but you're not fully educated on the topic. I am NOT saying this to flame all of you; I am pointing this out as a matter of fact, because people often argue with points when they have no basis for knowledge and perspective. Please don't try to use my own words against me; I typically choose them very carefully when I speak of tribology. I chose the cost topic of PAO synthetics for two reasons:
1) M1 TDT is a group IV, so it was directly in line with what the OP was speaking of
2) the "engine demonstration" experiment is typical of many high-end PAO products, and I specifically named them (Amsoil, RL, RP and such)
So, clearly I was referring to PAO products in my 3x cost ratio example, and I stated it as such by both using both the group IV term PAO, and by product brand name.

Final thoughts from me, and then I give up.

The OP can't seem to find his M1; personally, I find that hard to believe, given his area.
The OP asked of other suggestions; I gave some, based upon my years of maintenance experience, engineering experience, 16 years at Ford, engineering degree, and several years of being a Statistical Process Quality Control engineer.
The OP can use whatever he deems appropriate. He might choose the same product; he may not.
The OP will be wasting his money if he uses ANY lubricant for less than the full duration of its capability.
The FACTS are there in MANY UOAs for all to see. Review them for myself; don't take my word for it.
The rhetoric and hype has been professed, and dispelled.

Time for the OP to make up his own mind.