My old 4x4 rides too rough for the missus so its time to look for something else,it will soon be retirement time and I want to pull a 28-30 ft TT bumper type.
I find no need to buy another GM truck and try to boost power to match the cummins so I might as well start with one.
Finances won't allow new so am looking used, I read somewhere the best all around dodge was the 98 12valve.
I also read about certain pumps being better for power and economy than others, what years were they?
Anyway what do you recomend guys, I'm thinking 96 to 98 12v,are the automatics OK or does one need to stick with 5 spd.
Any and all recomendations will be taken seriously.
Thanks,Merle
P.S. quad cab or crew?

Don't know much about the older 12 valve engines, but can tell you the automatics aren't so great and the 4X4 will be rough riding due to the single axle front. My 04.5 is 4X4 and rough riding for sure. Mileage is better with the 12 valve versus the 24 valve too.

If your old truck was a sherman tank the dodge will ride better......if not the missus may not like it.........and quad cab if you have kids.

96-98.5 12v

If you are worried about stock HP/TQ then the 12V is not the truck. I have had a 1995 for about 2 months now and it is a good truck but rides like a truck. My 05 GMC rides much better and will blow it away hp wise. Now I did not purchase the 12v to race but for engine life and MPG which th 12v wins by seveal MPG.

If you are worried about stock HP/TQ then the 12V is not the truck

:>

No the 94-95 12V is not the truck it has the 160 pump ... Its the small one Must the pump beefed to run injectors.

96-98.5 and a screw driver and youll be smoking stock 24V's

Let alone some 370's and DV's and the 3kgsk and an FP then your smoking bombed 24V's

for about 2/3 the investment and 1/2 the bombing $$$$

DM

I find no need to buy another GM truck and try to boost power to match the cummins so I might as well start with one.
P.S. quad cab or crew?

Appearently you have not looked at the recent HP/TQ numbers for the 06's.

Dodge still does not make a crew cab.

No arguement about engine longevity, the Dmax is only a few years old, but Isuzu has made diesels for a very long time. And good ones at that.

Oh wait, I just realized I'm in the Dodge section, I feel like I need to :banghead: :shootself -:t

Disclaimer: You're getting my .02 for free. Pure opinion, not much science. You get what you pay for.

Here is some of my observations. I just spent the last 4 weeks looking for a used Dodge with the Cummins. The problem with buying the Cummins is you get the rest of the truck with it. Conversely, the problem I had with buying the GMC is I got the Duramax with the rest of the truck. My decision was based on the Allison trans. I figure I am gambling on the Duramax.

I was determined to find me a Dodge quad with the Cummins. Ended up with an 04 Duramax. I'll tell you what I found. The older ones drive stiff like the old trucks. I didn't like the ride at all. My wife wouldn't tolerate it. (For some folks that might be a good thing, but not for me.) If you get the auto trans you may never replace a trans filter. It isn't uncommon to rebuild them around 40k-50k miles, (Based on 3 friends that have 'em). The blacksmith that shoes my horses has a 95 with the manual 5 speed. He cautioned me against the 5 speed. He said pulling heavy you really have to wind out the gears or the motor falls flat on its face when you shift up. He said the HD 6 speed is the only way to go. That'll put you into a 2003 or newer I think. Make sure you get the heavy duty manual, not the standard 6 speed.

Take a look see for yourself.

I'm told the NV4500 is just fine as long as you don't pull it hard in OD. My unckle's Cummins has well over 200,000 still on the original trans and it's in pretty rough shape.

Appearently you have not looked at the recent HP/TQ numbers for the 06's.

Dodge still does not make a crew cab.

No arguement about engine longevity, the Dmax is only a few years old, but Isuzu has made diesels for a very long time. And good ones at that.



Some of you don't know much about what Dodge has to offer. The cummins is markedly improved... the auto tranny is now as reliable as most would expect an auto to be (100,000 +) and they now have the biggest crew cab.



Dodge makes the biggest, roomiest crew cab available. It's called the Mega Cab and it's available for sale now. They now have the widest opening rear doors, the most rear seat leg room, reclining rear seats plus room behind the rear seats for storage.

The Dmax has been out long enough.... soon to be five years.... and it ain't the barnstormer GM made it out to be. The Allison is probably the top reason many buy the GM. A good reason at that. The Dodge auto is much improved in the 48RE version. You read almost nothing about auto tranny problems with it. It became available in late 2003. Cummins power is unmatched by the competition and I don't mean drag racing. The latest common rail Cummins is 325 hp stock. The LBZ Dmax is 360. There was a time when I used to think that difference was significant but I'll guarantee you those peak V8 hp numbers don't do you much good at all in the real world. If anything they lower long term reliability. The Allison is sweet but they designed it on the edge too, power handling wise. I remember how shocked we all were once GM announced they were using an Allison, and then later to find out it had no more power handling capability than the competition.

Look at the 100,000 mile plus used market. Which truck would you drop your wad on? To me that's a key judgement call to long term comfort and I don't mean interior comfort.

I heard a lot of first time diesel owners... bought a Dmax and say "I'm keeping this this for the long haul cause diesels last forever" :rolleyes:

It's a different world out there that's for sure.

GM makes a great... and I mean that... 100,000 mile HD diesel truck. Been reading a lot of towing stories though that talk if issues... mileage and overheating that shows Dmax struggling with emissions compliance.

I heard a rumour the Dmax is having major problems cleaning up the Dmax enough for 2007. Dodge is ready. Way back rumour was opposite. They though the Cummins was done in 07 because of emissions.

Ok first of all he never asked anything about a chevrolet. Second he can't afford a new truck that is why people were saying that you can't get a crew cab dodge. If it was me I would suggest getting a 02 or 03 dmax, you can get them pretty cheap now and you will have a low sitting, soft riding, good handling, and powerfull truck with a good tranny. And not to mention it will keep your wife happy, and that is the most important thing after all. If she can live with the ride and the noise I would say get a 98 or earlier 12V cummins. They are alot cheaper to work on, great on fuel, and pull pretty good. You prob want win any races with it. I have seen 6.5L with just exhaust out run the 12V dodge. You will loose a little on interior cumfort by going to a dodge but to some that is worth the torque and easy maintnance on the 12 valve years. Good luck on what you get, and whatever it is you will be happy because they all blow black smoke! :ro)

The 97&98 12 valve dodges are the better ones in my opinion. They had the higher output for the 5 speeds(seen quite a few 230hp) and most all of the problems were resolved in the engines by 97(I did very few actual repairs to 97+ compared to 94-96). The NV-4500 trans is a good solid unit once you get the 5th gear nut fixed with the updated nut. The only common things on the actual trucks that I did at dealer were evaporator cores and orifice tube for the A/C, and L/F upper ball joints in the 4X4 and all the ball joints in the 4X2.

I've got a '95 1 ton with a big exhaust and turned up pump, and it will absolutely outpull my 6.5 with big exhaust OR my '95 Powerstroke. BTW I put on in the neighborhood of 150,000 miles in a year towing trailers all over the country.. My Dodge gets me consistently 19-20 mpg hand calculated at 70 mph with the air conditioning on running empty. The Ford gets 17 mpg on a good day and the 6.5 in my Chevy gets around 16. I love the Dodge. The Dodge rides much nicer than the Ford but not as nice as the Chevy

Depends on these factors:
If your looking for fun, pleasure, wife aproval, but lucky to make it 100,000 trouble free miles, go with the D-Max, it's a good all around diesel truck, acceptable power, not bad fuel economy, nice room, but a all around good truck to 100,000 miles only.

If your looking for a good, long lasting truck that will be barely broke in past 100,000 miles, and I'm speaking from family and friends proof, I'd go with the new Dodge Dually 3500 1 ton with the 8 ft box, I'm the only GM diesel truck owner out of five family and friends that own Dodge cummins, and since I've always been a Chevy guy, I had to be different and buy a D-Max, I have been very lucky with mine, and with the (B.S.) employee purchase program going on, my 2002 was choked down in price so bad that I could not even breathe, so I have to keep mine for a few more years, heck I only have 30,000 on a 2002!!!.
My best friends are tile setters, they beat their Dodges to death every day, I'd even show you a digital picture of a 1989 Dodge that has been carrying 2 pallets of floor mudd in the back of a extended cab long box every week since day one and still is doing this to this day, and if anyone knows how heavy two pallets of floor mudd is, that should tell you what these Cummins are for, long term, best investment for your money, heck my buddy has over 200,000 miles and still hauling everyday.
I know it's a hard choice, everyone has a story, everyone has this and that to tell you, but after it's all said and done, go with your gut and go for it.

The reason I'd go with the dually, if you ever get a flat and your pulling a nice load, it's heavenly nice to have another tire to keep you around for one more day....

hoot,

you convinced me. i think i will order the mega cab long bed dually..........wait not available ? why ? frame cant handle the stresses of a long bed ? ..................:rolleyes:





just yankin' your chain :D ):h

i have not looked at a later model dodge, did they improve the creature comforts or fit and finish any ? dont forget the cummins has the same injection system as the GM engine that is "unreliable" past 100K as you say.

I know of many of the late model 12V dodges with over 400,000 and still going strong working as farm trucks day in and day out. The origanal cummins was a real tough engine. Cummins is using a common rail now, but I haven't heard of them having nowhere near the problems of the DMAX. But hey I'm holding out for a Duramax(when they finally put it in the Suburban:cool: ).

i wonder what car lot hoot works at?:lol: but he always seems to be here:eek:

It makes his truck faster to hang around Dmax guys!

Hoot your post reads like an ad for Dodge. Funny thing is it was the same post you were making 3-4 years ago when you had a GM but you were bashing the Dodge and the Ford.
To me if your looking used fine one thats not a work truck and with as little milage as possible. Drive them as see for yourself. Never make a choice based on something you read about like who know a guy who hauls 10 tons everyday for 5 years with zero problems. There are plenty of horror stories out there for evry brand.

Joey I just re-read my post. I don't think it sounds like an advertisement at all. There is a big difference between what I said back than -vs- what was available, and what I say today -vs- what is available. Not to mention I have owned late models of both.

Mike, he is looking for an used truck and It looked to me like he was going 2nd gen Rams. What you said about them in the past is still true today I think.

go for a 98 12v you get the updated interior and the P7100 pump. The dodge autos in stock form are basically junk.. but. If you have one built by say DTT wow. THEY ROCK!!:ro)

Hope that helps

Mike, he is looking for an used truck and It looked to me like he was going 2nd gen Rams. What you said about them in the past is still true today I think.

The older ones are noisy... especially on a cold winter morning. It's a tractor motor... a backhoe motor (Case uses the 4BT). The torque converters are terrible in the second gen Dodges and must be upgraded at least. When the TQ went out they spewed crap into the trans.

I love my 98 12 valve, it runs strong (high 400's hp) and get great fuel mileage. However, it's definately not a truck for the wife.

Rides rough and most of them have wandering steering.

It's a nice starting platform if you're into that sort of thing.

A set of shocks and springs, and some steering upgrades and you should be in business.

Also the truck is not quiet.

Just some unbiased observations

If you're going to buy a 12 valve truck - get a 98 QC with a 5 speed (preferably updated NV4500).
If you're going to get a 24valve - get an '01+ with a six speed or an aftermarket auto
read here www.turbodieselregister.com (http://www.turbodieselregister.com)

Just a small correction for an above post.. The 160 pump trucks can be made quick very cheaply as well.. Talk to Jeff Garmon. For 470 bucks he can make your truck run low 15's until your tranny says no more. That's a completely stock truck and 470 bucks.. Don't be scared of the 160.. Just a myth that they can't make power..

"New" old Dodge is really best at anything, lets remind hoot where they are in sales

Bottom feeders! Says it all

Hoot still see your

Just for fun! :)

Sales Figures
Top 10 Pickups
Year to Date, September 2005



Ford F-Series
694,690 -0.5% YTD
September 2005: 69643
September 2004: 99720


Chevrolet Silverado
570,278 8.2% YTD
September 2005: 48051
September 2004: 77007


Dodge Ram
318,812 -3.1% YTD
September 2005: 35502
September 2004: 33690


GMC Sierra
187,371 16.4% YTD
September 2005: 16232
September 2004: 23588


Toyota Tacoma
125,114 4.9% YTD
September 2005: 14632
September 2004: 12040


Chevrolet Colorado
106,930 25.5% YTD
September 2005: 7648
September 2004: 12493


Ford Ranger
99,907 -21.6% YTD
September 2005: 10105
September 2004: 13687


Toyota Tundra
91,086 10.2% YTD
September 2005: 7253
September 2004: 8973


Dodge Dakota
86,243 1.4% YTD
September 2005: 8921
September 2004: 8365


Nissan Titan
67,605 15.7% YTD
September 2005: 7015
September 2004: 7903

hoot went with a dodge because he got a pay off when a tree fell a his gmc....with the insurance deductable he could buy three dodges. that tells you how good the gmc hold their value.sorry hoot i had to joke about this man.nothing personal.

reineke......add gmc and chevy numbers together....and gm will be the 1 seller. of course i know you knew that gmc and chevy is the same company and same cash flow.

GM will always be the #1 seller in my book! :D

you got that right!!!!!!(Reineke)

Chevy and GMC sales are #1. Sort of figures with most people wanting the same look and me-to-ism. A plain ugly box shape, not offensive to anyone, you can see yourself on every street corner, slant eye/bow tie. That says it all.

Chevy and GMC sales are #1. Sort of figures with most people wanting the same look and me-to-ism. A plain ugly box shape, not offensive to anyone, you can see yourself on every street corner, slant eye/bow tie. That says it all.
:blahblah: !

This turned into a Dodge bashing thread,(No surprise on a GM site). I will just add my 02. the D/A seems to offer everything a person would want, nice ride, steller tranny, low profile 4x4 for towing, on my second one, and my last just to many issues.

While I think many folks have better luck then me, I have had issues the whole time I owned both. Meanwhile a co-worker bought a 05 Dodge Dually Diesel, put 60,000 miles in less then a year, 0 issues. I have to admit, Dodge has my interest now, their 4x4's tend to sit rather high, so that is a consideration. I really like the Allison, but I am tired of one thing after another going out, its something GM needs to work on.

This turned into a Dodge bashing thread,(No surprise on a GM site). I will just add my 02. the D/A seems to offer everything a person would want, nice ride, steller tranny, low profile 4x4 for towing, on my second one, and my last just to many issues.

While I think many folks have better luck then me, I have had issues the whole time I owned both. Meanwhile a co-worker bought a 05 Dodge Dually Diesel, put 60,000 miles in less then a year, 0 issues. I have to admit, Dodge has my interest now, their 4x4's tend to sit rather high, so that is a consideration. I really like the Allison, but I am tired of one thing after another going out, its something GM needs to work on.

Because brochure king hoot showed up.Remember he has the best in class ,injector dependable, high mileage non bic lighter bored ,he sells before a 100k dodge cummings and what towed his Ford hoe? :exactly:


Need a picture?

The 12 valve is a very dependable and rock solid motor.. I'd have to say it's easily the most trouble free of our choices. At this time, it's also easily the most powerfull for extreme competition. Only speaking from personal experience of owning all of the big three.
I've never bashed my 2003 duramax.. It was a great truck. Quick, good mileage, and easily modified. Well, I take that back.. I did bash it a little when I put it in a truck pull and it broke both tie rods, cv joints, etc.. My tires wrapped in front of the truck and I then ran over them because I had so much momentum.. Had plenty of power though... haha..

~7000 miles and I've been very impressed with my Dodge, drives great, never been in the dealer except for the free oil change from when I bought it. Let's see my GM had been in the shop 1,2,3,4,5, damn I lost count, by 7000 miles...I wouldn't take another D/A if it was free -:t

"GM makes a great... and I mean that... 100,000 mile HD diesel truck."

I don't know where you get that 100,000 mile stuff. There're a whole lot of people with a whole lot more miles than that. My buddy put 160K trouble free miles on his '01 in 4 years....about 80K was towing a 24' cattle trailer all over Texas, gross weight a bit over 16,000lbs. The truck was running strong when he traded it for an '05.

I've nothing against Dodge. I like the engine and the truck has some really cleverly designed interior storage. But there was never any question of getting one because I do lots of shooting off the hood of a truck.....the Dodge hood is too high and the wrong contour. Plus the whole vehicle is too big for my garage anyway.