What kind of idea's have we got out there for how to get about 5 psi more boost? If it was simple, AND CHEAP, how many people would do it?

Sounds good, especially the cheap part!):h

I've contacted fingers about a "boost stick". I am thinking not to exceed 06 boost specs, that way we know the motor will take it, but possibly something adjustable for the die hard racer type.

I hear that if you play with the turbo over a length of time you engine will handle it fine. For example, prevent your wastegate from opening for a quick run to the store, then open it back up, do this several times slowly adding to the frequency, wastegate prevention and lenght of time. Then you can run at about 32psi all the time. Thats what I hear...dont shoot the messanger.

Discussed this with Fingers a bit the other day. I've been running a device on my 2005 off and on for some time now. Programming will get you there easiest, but with a programmer w/o boost it will help. I ran to MT and back with a Juice on levels 2,3, and 4 with a bit of extra boost and it did well. Climbed grades locked up in OD at 20- 24+ psi or so.

The easy/better solution is to bump to a bigger range sensor and then scale it to fit what the ECM wants to see. This would allow the ECM to have positive control of the boost while letting you get past the current sensors 30PSI limit.

A circuit or programming alone is limited by the current sensor.

What did Mcrat do that got him IIRC 40+ psi boost on his blue truck?

Listen to him. He's feels like he has a hotrod again, LOL

a bleed is cheap.

What did Mcrat do that got him IIRC 40+ psi boost on his blue truck?

Blue was an LB7

White is an LLY

McRat's sig says blue is an LLY...

Blue was an LB7

White is an LLY

Blue is LLY.

The stack that netted him 40+psi is VA/Predator.

Yup. Saw a peak of 45PSI with witnesses on a dyno. Boost comes on hard at 2500rpm at 3/4 throttle. Lots-o-fun! :D EGT's were fine. If you want to do some welding with your tailpipe! :eek:

45 psi and no turbo bark? WOW!! Mine barked at 35ish with the old v1.0 Juice on it.

I'm still only making 22-24psi on the Autometer even with the Pred. and J/A stacked. I'd love to see a cheap/easy way to find another 5psi or so and get those EGTs down a little.

Boost on the dyno and boost on the street are 3 different things. On the dyno I will see 32-33 psi with the pred/va stack. On the street I see 21-22 psi max.

I rigged up a "boost fooler" on my LLY and was very underwhelmed. I have an adjustable setup and with the vent opened enough to hear audible whistle at idle I still only see ~24 psi max boost with the pred/va on the street. I think an electronic solution will be better (Fingers are you listening?)

Another thing, with the bleed valve closed completely I see LOWER boost than stock at WOT. My boost gauge comes off a SD manifold. My boost fooler line is tapped into the cast aluminum pipe that goes directly in to the turbo. The stock boost sensor is mounted in the intake manifold on the driver's side.

Kennedy, is your solution available for purchase?

Boost on the dyno and boost on the street are 3 different things. On the dyno I will see 32-33 psi with the pred/va stack. On the street I see 21-22 psi max.

I rigged up a "boost fooler" on my LLY and was very underwhelmed. I have an adjustable setup and with the vent opened enough to hear audible whistle at idle I still only see ~24 psi max boost with the pred/va on the street. I think an electronic solution will be better (Fingers are you listening?)

Another thing, with the bleed valve closed completely I see LOWER boost than stock at WOT. My boost gauge comes off a SD manifold. My boost fooler line is tapped into the cast aluminum pipe that goes directly in to the turbo. The stock boost sensor is mounted in the intake manifold on the driver's side.

Kennedy, is your solution available for purchase?

care to enlighten us on your "boost fooler"? i would like to rig one up on my LLY aswell, thanx

read this thread: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37588&highlight=boost+sensor

Kennedy, is your solution available for purchase?

Yes and no. How's that for an answer? I'd like to get it on the dyno again and see. Predator owners will not need this with the upcoming tunes. As Fingers said, a more complex mod may be in order, but that is if you want to run the boost to a higher level. With present hardware it seems that we can make enough boost to cover all but the race tunes.

I ran this out to MT with the Juice on levels 3 and sometimes 4. I was pulling grades with 20-24+psi depending on load and this was locked in OD. EGT's were less than 1400°f unless I kicked down then it hit 1450°f and rang my alert. This was with a very fast acting thermocouple.

As you already know, accessing the sensor is tough. I managed to fish this all in without removing anything but the silencer chamber, but it was tough.

Yes and no. How's that for an answer? I'd like to get it on the dyno again and see. Predator owners will not need this with the upcoming tunes.

Predator is not very crazy about updating or releasing any new LLY tunes.:mad: They keep saying "In a couple of months.....in a couple months...." Do you have any more info on which couple of months this new tune will be out? It would also make any other mods to increase boost psi obsolete. If I got Kennedy's hint: It is nice to see Diablo Sport working on lowering EGT's for their programmer by other methods than cutting the power of the tunes. Adding boost might be the way to go.:grd:

Mwgassman, I'm not shure I understand your post. Do you have another sensor in your bleed hose? You must have a sensor in the hose you are bleeding off. Unhook the original sensor connector and plug it in to the sensor on the bleed hose. A simple vacuum T about an inch from the sensor works great.Don't get so creative and just KISS it.(Keep It Simple Stupid)):h This works great @ 30 psi and no maf codes.Do not use any scan tool,predator or edge to read the boost, it will be wrong, remember your faking the sensor out.ONLY use a mechanical gauge. Tim

Fingers? Inquiring minds want to know?

I have a 10% simple fooler prototyped. Might be able to do a little testing monday. The "smart" circuit will be a little longer coming out. Anything over 15% straight increase will risk bombing the turbo. IMO

I'll do which ever, or both. Let me know.

I'd love to try the 10% unit if you release any for "testing", etc.

TTS tow tune = Lower egts and higher boost at cruise and WOT:ro) Not cheap but I see more boost and lower EGT's than I do with the Predator. With the TTS my EGT's stay in the 1150deg range no matter how hard I try, while boost at WOT is in the 27lb range. Why take a chance fooling sensors and ECM's when fully tested programming is available????? To each his own.

RaceHemi said;
Why take a chance fooling sensors and ECM's when fully tested programming is available?????

RickDLance says; $$$$

Even with programmers, the boost is not adjustable. Having some adjustability is a good thing.

I am interested in one as well. As soon as it's out let me know how where to send the $ :) Thanks

The predator runs less boost then stock so it would be nice to increase it for now until the updated version comes out (if it ever will :rolleyes: )

I'm interested too...

TTS tow tune = Lower egts and higher boost at cruise and WOT:ro) Not cheap but I see more boost and lower EGT's than I do with the Predator. With the TTS my EGT's stay in the 1150deg range no matter how hard I try, while boost at WOT is in the 27lb range. Why take a chance fooling sensors and ECM's when fully tested programming is available????? To each his own.

RaceHemi: I'm interested in the TTS tow tune 3 (PowerLoader 3) when it finally comes out... Does your "1150deg range" include towing?, 20000+ lbs GCW??, up steep mountain grades???, at high altitude???? SAY IT'S SO!

BTW: Where you at in Illinois? I live near Hennepin (maybe 15miles sw of intersection of I-39 and I-80).

Paul.

It's all a matter of balance. Personally, I think that Fingers' small percentage increase (coincides with what I've been running off and on) is more in line with the moderate HP (100HP or less) tunes available for the LLY.

Anything over 15% straight increase will risk bombing the turbo. IMO

So how about 14.5% ):h

RaceHemi said;
Why take a chance fooling sensors and ECM's when fully tested programming is available?????

RickDLance says; $$$$

:lol: Exactly what I was thinking. We'll see how it looks if the PL3 comes out...

10% finger boost has tested well so far. Stacked with a boost raising program is scary. Very scary. Higher values will require the addition of a different sensor with correcting circuit to keep from overspinning the turbo. That version should work well even with boost mod programs and boxes. Prototype is a reworked Finger Stick.

If/when these go into production, they will have connectors and be sold through a single DP vendor. I wonder what the demand would be?

10% finger boost has tested well so far. Stacked with a boost raising program is scary. Very scary. Higher values will require the addition of a different sensor with correcting circuit to keep from overspinning the turbo. That version should work well even with boost mod programs and boxes. Prototype is a reworked Finger Stick.

If/when these go into production, they will have connectors and be sold through a single DP vendor. I wonder what the demand would be?

I would love to get one ASAP. Uh, 2 of them.

Oh, and if connectors cause a delay, I'd buy one without.

I think 3 will do me.

Put me down for one!

Love to have more boost, count me in too!

10% finger boost has tested well so far. Stacked with a boost raising program is scary. Very scary. Higher values will require the addition of a different sensor with correcting circuit to keep from overspinning the turbo. That version should work well even with boost mod programs and boxes. Prototype is a reworked Finger Stick.

If/when these go into production, they will have connectors and be sold through a single DP vendor. I wonder what the demand would be?


So this will be a finger stick AND a boost "bumper" all together with real connectors????

What else can a guy need????????
I hope I am understanding this correctly :grd:

Ricky...seeya...

OH, I'll take 2 please, but prefer to wait until they are dummy proof (Ricky proof)

So this will be a finger stick AND a boost "bumper" all together with real connectors????

What else can a guy need????????
I hope I am understanding this correctly :grd:

Ricky...seeya...

OH, I'll take 2 please, but prefer to wait until they are dummy proof (Ricky proof)

No, this will just be a boost fooler. (Finger Boost Stick? Boost Stick, er whatever) There will never be connectors for the Finger Stick.

I was able to prototype the device using the Finger Stick as a basis for the new circuit. But they are totally unique applications.

Predator is not very crazy about updating or releasing any new LLY tunes.:mad: They keep saying "In a couple of months.....in a couple months...." Do you have any more info on which couple of months this new tune will be out? It would also make any other mods to increase boost psi obsolete. If I got Kennedy's hint: It is nice to see Diablo Sport working on lowering EGT's for their programmer by other methods than cutting the power of the tunes. Adding boost might be the way to go.

Bump! Any more info on how/when we can get more boost on the predator? I RARELY see over 20psi (and normally it is 5-10psi) on my predator 40hp setting, even when towing, and the high EGT's are a killer. See a little more boost with stock.

10% finger boost has tested well so far. Stacked with a boost raising program is scary. Very scary. Higher values will require the addition of a different sensor with correcting circuit to keep from overspinning the turbo. That version should work well even with boost mod programs and boxes. Prototype is a reworked Finger Stick.

If/when these go into production, they will have connectors and be sold through a single DP vendor. I wonder what the demand would be?

I would be very interested in several of these when they become available.

Fingers, I think you got the green light from most of us here. Any idea on a time frame yet?

Uh, if you make them dummy proof, can I still use one???

Bump! Any more info on how/when we can get more boost on the predator? I RARELY see over 20psi (and normally it is 5-10psi) on my predator 40hp setting, even when towing, and the high EGT's are a killer. See a little more boost with stock.

The Diablo revisions are coming. They work VERY well, but there's always room for improvement. It's been pretty darn hot here, and my LB7 is still on the dyno, but I hope to get my testing done soon so I can get the LLY on and verify the power on the Pred. Been towing with the 80HP tune and it works well with minimal smoke.

On the boost stick subject, it too needs to be tested and validated. I've run my own similar setup with good results, but no dyno time yet.

I'll add that it is not as simple as just jacking in a few psi more boost...

Is diablo releasing a hot tune also?

Count me in too Fingers!

I'd be interested in two... Get er done already, would ya?

Is diablo releasing a hot tune also?

There is a hot tune available, but will not be on a tuner. The hot tune is said to do well, but not as polished as the standard stuff that is coming. I will probably load and drive the hot tune soon.

My Finger Stick Is Very Lonely, So Would Take One Also.

Where do I sign up?

mee too please

more boost for me

Am I getting a commision?:)

Am I getting a commision?:)

Trying to worm your way into an early prototype?

Wow, I never thought of that!):h

Wow, I never thought of that!):h

Likely story.:muahaha:

New to the site, great info and very interested in one as well. Im sure you have all tried different stacks with the edge, and was curious if you would let me know what all works well. Thanks again for the great site.

More boost sounds good. Connectors for plug and play sounds even better...sign me up!

I will take 1 when they are ready.

Fingers, I'm in.

Count me in too! :D

racer brown said more boost can always beat boost. Hmm, sounded better with cubic inches. I'll take Fingers Boost stick to go along with the orignal stick.

Jim

Me to.. My figer stick is lonely would also like a boost stick to keep it company...

Count me in!

I'm in! I'm late to the party though so I guess it might take a while.

Count me in...........Looks like there is plenty of support for this.

I'd like one too!

Tested a new prototype today. Kind of a "smart" boost stick. Low level boost is more or less unchanged but it ramps quickly above 10 PSI to a maintainable 27 PSI. The 80 HP Predator seems to love the new boost map. EGTs are down a bit but I will not have good data on that till tomorrow when I tow heavy. This is by far the most drivable version so far.

I am nervous about stacking this with a boost modifing program.:)

I'm in:blahblah:

Tested a new prototype today. Kind of a "smart" boost stick. Low level boost is more or less unchanged but it ramps quickly above 10 PSI to a maintainable 27 PSI. The 80 HP Predator seems to love the new boost map. EGTs are down a bit but I will not have good data on that till tomorrow when I tow heavy. This is by far the most drivable version so far.

I am nervous about stacking this with a boost modifing program.:)

Is this something that is easily accessible - can it be easily removed prior to a visit to the dealer?

After seeing RickDLance's thoughts about overfueling possibly contributing to overheating - I am very, very interested to see what your "tow heavy egt's" look like tomorrow. Seeing comments that TTS's tow tune keeps EGTs in check only increases my interest.

I was wondering whether GM is over-fueling slightly to deal with emissions? If testing shows reduced egts, reduced overheating and increased mpg's -> I am in (and I never, ever, mod my truck!).

What is typical boost reading at 65 mph cruising speed?? - any possibility this will help highway fuel mileage as well?

I was also wondering how temperature dependent the MAF and boost sensor are. And if sensor error is appreciable when the truck heats up (or overheats up - as the case may be)...


thanks,
jeff

Is this something that is easily accessible - can it be easily removed prior to a visit to the dealer?

After seeing RickDLance's thoughts about overfueling possibly contributing to overheating - I am very, very interested to see what your "tow heavy egt's" look like tomorrow.

I was wondering whether GM is over-fueling slightly to deal with emissions? If testing shows reduced egts, reduced overheating and increased mpg's -> I am in (and I never, ever, mod my truck!).

I was also wondering how temperature dependent the MAF and boost sensor are. And if sensor error is appreciable when the truck heats up (or overheats up - as the case may be)...

thanks,
jeff

The term over-fueling bothers me. We are not putting more fuel in than can be burned. Really, you have to inject the fuel to get the power. Less fuel, less power. The question is if extra air would do us some good.

In any diesel application, more air = lower EGTs. (within the capabilities of the turbo) So there might be GMs logic. They are trying to keep EGTs up to keep the CAT functioning. Probably to burn out the soot. They do that by trying to matching the air in with the fuel to burn.

Boot Stick:

Thanks to Mr Kennedy, the proto has been a plug and play unit. It looks like the kit will include an extension to allow you to bring the connectors to the top, and the Boost Stick that will plug in between the extension and the stock harness.

Going to the dealer? Just unplug the Boost Stick and plug the extension into the harness. Getting the extension on the sensor is a PITA, but worth the effort.

Thanks for your quick response and it sounds very, very good...

Sorry - I edited my post while you were responding.... I added a few more questions...

1. What is typical boost at highway cruise speed? Wondering whether the boost stick might affect highway MPGs in a positive way. I see that TTS's tow tune claims 1/2 to 1 mpg gain in fuel efficiency (but has the great disadvantage that it can't be easily removed when visiting a dealer).

2. I was also wondering how temperature dependent the MAF and boost sensor are. And is sensor error is appreciable when the truck heats up or overheats up - as the case may be...


thanks,
jeff

Add me to the "wait list" as well please!!!

you can count me in also please

Whiskey for my men, beer for my horses, and a Boost Stick for my DMax!

I just like telling people that my truck has been "fingered." lol...

Fingers, if your keeping track, add me into your Boost Stick queue please. Looks like it's growing fast.

Pulled with the latest prototype today. Pulled wonderfully with boosts in the 24-26 PSI range most of the time under load. One odd quirk was when I lost revs in a shift under extream load. Boost came down during the shift (expected) but It would not build back to the previous 24-26 PSI. It seemed the Predator was not fueling enough to drive the turbo past 17 PSI. Keep in mind I was already taking the hill at least 5 MPH faster than normal, but I found this odd. Oh, it continued to pull, just didn't accelerate.

Vital Stats for odd behavior:
Pedator @ 85 HP
Boost Stick 7 PSI offset/ 22% signal mod
20%-25% hill pulling 20,000 lb trailer. GCVW ~26,000
Outside temp 88*
40 MPH
Not sure what gear shift, I think 2nd-3rd.

This should be a good item for those with the predator. I know my predator runs cooler empty when cruising on the 65 setting than the 40hp. which im not sure why but i guess it has more boost on the 65

Did EGT go up after the shift?

I didn't notice/didn't look after the shift. Over all, they were down ~100* from predator alone. It should go without saying that everyone's results will vary.

Add another to your list please.

Me too! :lol:

Just for fun, I ran the Boost Stick with a custom boost increasing program. What a blast. The program was strong in the first place and this just added to the joy. Sustained 29-30 PSI pulling hard. Turbo sure sings a pretty tune.

:thumb:

Prototype is going to be dynoed Friday.

stop teasing us fingers we all want to have more boost stop hogging it lol
can't wait to see dyno results
thanks for all your hard work fingers

Fingers,

I'm in!!!!!!!!:ro)

FINGERS, Please add me to your list!!
;)

what did you do to get the boost to 45psi?

Count me in too fingers!!

FINGERS, PLEASE COUNT ME IN!!!!

2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD

Fingers, have we got a date yet?

Fingers, have we got a date yet?

Ewwwww.... You want to date fingers? :eek: -:t

I couldn't help myself.... ;)

Just found this thread today. Dumb question here: will the Boost Stick do anything when you've all ready got a stack that's consistantly doing 30 psi boost and have seen as much as 32-35 on a limited basis? Would it be able to hit 35 psi boost or more when both are set to kill consistantly? Just curious.

The answer is a little complicated.....

The Stock sensor is only good to about 30 PSI. The spikes you see are overshoots. Once you max out the sensor, you are only limited by fueling. With enough fuel, you could see much more, but it will be uncontrolled above 30 PSI.

Boost Stick II will be a complete boost sensor replacement that will allow controlled boosts well in excess of 30PSI. This is a work in progress.....

Both Boost Sticks versions are "smart" in that they remap the signal as opposed to simply raising or lowing it across the entire range. This is showing good results, especially in the lower boost ranges, while still allowing bigger boost at the upper end.

So to answer your question: Provided you have enough fuel to support a higher boost, yes, you will get higher boosts. BUT they will be uncontrolled above 30 PSI.

I will take 1 of each. Please let us know when thay are ready.

Boost Stick II will be a complete boost sensor replacement that will allow controlled boosts well in excess of 30PSI. This is a work in progress.....

Sounds like both of them are great products . . . I, for one, am willing to wait for you to develop the product the way you want to AND pay you what it's worth!!! Your past "inventions" have been well thought out and bargains at twice the price!!

That being said . . . I WANT ONE NOWWWWWWW ! ! ! ! ! ! ;)

The answer is a little complicated.....

The Stock sensor is only good to about 30 PSI. The spikes you see are overshoots. Once you max out the sensor, you are only limited by fueling. With enough fuel, you could see much more, but it will be uncontrolled above 30 PSI.

Boost Stick II will be a complete boost sensor replacement that will allow controlled boosts well in excess of 30PSI. This is a work in progress.....

Both Boost Sticks versions are "smart" in that they remap the signal as opposed to simply raising or lowing it across the entire range. This is showing good results, especially in the lower boost ranges, while still allowing bigger boost at the upper end.

So to answer your question: Provided you have enough fuel to support a higher boost, yes, you will get higher boosts. BUT they will be uncontrolled above 30 PSI.

Thanks Fingers. What do you do for a living cuz you seem like one smart SOB. We're lucky to have you playing with Duramax's and not the other brands.

Can't wait til these are in production. (not trying to hurry you. We all know there's a lot of research to be done.)

Thanks Fingers. What do you do for a living cuz you seem like one smart SOB. We're lucky to have you playing with Duramax's and not the other brands.


FWIW, I ain't that smart. Just curious how things work.

But thanks for the complement anyway. I'm not worthy.

Have you got an estimated date of completion for the boost stick?? Curious minds want to know.

FWIW, I ain't that smart. Just curious how things work.

But thanks for the complement anyway. I'm not worthy.

And humble too. You are a class act.

jeff

Have you got an estimated date of completion for the boost stick?? Curious minds want to know.

OK, there are now 5 Boost Stick configuration prototypes made up with different mappings. I am planning a side trip to Kennedy's to make some runs on the lie detector to sort out what's what next week. I think we have candidate for next Friday to test some big power applications too. BS II is still on the bread board getting some bugs worked out. With luck, I'll have a mock up ready for testing in time for Kennedy's.

The long lead time parts are already ordered. Should be here next week. Every thing else is ready. I want to see what pans out on the dyno before I make any claims or finalize what version or versions will be produced..

SOTP says there is more grunt under the curve in the mid-range RPMs. Up high isn't as noticeable, but you are limited by fuel and I don't have enough to pull more than ~ 35 PSI steady even with the most agressive boost map. Giggle gas or a bigger program or injectors or all of the above could probably pull more. Didn't do any real good, but I had fun pulling 30 PSI with a stock program.

I will not be selling these direct. However, I expect them to be available within the next two weeks. I will be leaving it up to the distributer to market the buggers. If you have special needs, PM me, and I will see what I can do. Too early to tell, but I am a little excited about the whole thing. Especially the potential of BS II if it gets coupled with a good program that is aware of the extended boost range.


Oh, one last thing. Don't expect these to be dirt cheap. Connectors and all are driving the price up.

Whats the most boost the stock turbo can make safely?

Does BS ll replace the original BS? Do I need both BS to get over 30psi, or just the
BS ll? Don't know if you know this but my dads LB7 pick-up has very good mid range and top end, but it is very sluggish on take off. Just wondering what I could do to fix it.

I think you'll find very little gain above 30 psi.To get in excess of 30 psi, the variable nozel has to get so tight the back presure starts to climb sharply.You can actually make more power with less boost(under35) due to the increase in back pressure,especially on a daily driver towing.Monitor back pressure while at John's on the dyno I think you'll be surprised. Tim

80+ psi:eek: Stacks that make 35 psi are probably there...

Nearly 10 hrs of dyno testing today and YES the Hypertech still sux verified by Fingers...

80+ psi:eek: Stacks that make 35 psi are probably there...


Wait, let me get this straight. You made 80psi on a stock LLY charger?:confused: :eek: :eek: :eek:

backpressure......

.

SO whats the highest safest boost PSI that the stock charger can make?

I'm game for the stick too. Fingers produces quality products.:grd:

I'm jammed up right now, but I'll give a short of my busy day Monday.

Yes, you can make more power with the Boost Stick, but you have to have the fuel available. The Juice liked the BS's the best. Still have to pour over the data to check gains and such.

Yes, it reduces EGTs, but they are also higher in the lower rev ranges. Mixed results that will have to be pounded out.

I forgot the max PSI we hit. 35+ PSI but the backpressure was big, like 80 PSI. Again, have to pour over the data some more.

any updates?

Finished my obligations here in Minnesota today. I start the long drive back Friday and will be back home Monday or so and start production. All the parts are in. Looks like John Kennedy will be distributing the Boost Sticks for me. I will let John make the arrangements and announcements.

Did you get on John's BS detector? What was the results?

Jim

More testing tomorrow, but suffice to say, the Edge box LOVES the boost stick...

I wanted and planned on coming up to watch you dyno the boost stick tomorrow, but a little tornado changed my plans. Just my luck!!

JK, did you get a chance to test with the Predator?
On a side note my son tried to call you today.

i can't wait for it to get one how long before your going to start selling them any time fram that you are shooting for

We ran about 10 hrs of Dyno on Monday for BS testing. Lot O Data. I've been doing other business this week since but will be returning to JK's today to witness some more testing and then finish the ananlysis. We would like to put thought into where the gains are being made instead of just a "yea, it makes more power" backed up with graphs and situations and so on.

First run of 100 will be next week, but it may be a little longer till the installation instructions and such show up on JK's site.

I know you all want it NOW. But we want to make sure we do not make claims that can not be backed up.

Sure we all want it now, but I'm willing to wait for perfection. Would there be a way to switch on/off the Boost stick? Or would that be unnecessary? My thought is when I'm just driving around why would I need the extra boost, I want the extra boost doing the sled pulls. It's been said before the stock set up will max out at 30 psi, and spike a little above. Last night I hit 35 psi boost throughout 3rd gear (beginning to end) and 4th gear on my 60psi boost gauge. EJA on 4/2 and pred on 40, any thoughts?

FWIW, this is not a perfect product. We are really trying to provide what should have been done by the programmers and the boxes in the first place. You can expect the stick to change as I get more feedback and better ideas. Even so, what I have right now is a marked improvement while maintaining driveability and is worth releasing.

FWIW, this is not a perfect product. We are really trying to provide what should have been done by the programmers and the boxes in the first place. You can expect the stick to change as I get more feedback and better ideas. Even so, what I have right now is a marked improvement while maintaining driveability and is worth releasing.

Just remember some programmers have already done this in our programs :D . So adding a stick on top of what we have done may not work well.

Guess we'll have to add another name to Fingers' dance card then...

Just remember some programmers have already done this in our programs :D . So adding a stick on top of what we have done may not work well.

The stock boost sensor will read 30 PSI. The highest ECM-only tunes are running 30 PSI.

If you can hit over 30 PSI with ECM-only tuning, let's see it.

Nevermind.

Actually, the TTS tow may do well with a little help from Fingers. Now keep in mind I have towed with it and actually kinda liked it in many ways. It works pretty well under load. Now Elaine on the other hand did not like it in a blind drive test empty.


PS. The only ECM tune (other than Diablo beta units) that I have seen raise LLY boost is the TTS.

No need to turn this thread into a pissing match...

We may well get Fingers' truck back on the dyno today for more testing. We were kind of involved/distracted with Ynot's setup and finding what worked for him yesterday. After a little bit of reflection I believe that Fingers had a "revelation" and will be working something up on a breadboard today.


FWIW, we had Ynot in the 450-470 range on fuel yesterday and across 500 with propane and meth. Did not need 40 psi to do it either...

Actually, the TTS tow may do well with a little help from Fingers. Now keep in mind I have towed with it and actually kinda liked it in many ways. It works pretty well under load. Now Elaine on the other hand did not like it in a blind drive test empty.


PS. The only ECM tune (other than Diablo beta units) that I have seen raise LLY boost is the TTS.

No need to turn this thread into a pissing match...

Yeah, you're right.

The TTS Tow likes any boost enhancing box from what I can tell. I'm driving Casper around town like that, and we have driven Blue that way also. Mild smoke, very quick turbo response.

Your right Steve that not all programs will benifit. So far in our testing, that has not been the case. Ynot's PPE was running obsene amounts of fuel and we just couldn't get it to clean up. But we did add about 75 HP to the top. The Diablo Beta was already adding boost and benifitted too, but to a lesser degree. More testing will tell....

So far. the problem has been drive pressures When making unlimited boost. Maybe the new down pipes will help there.

Since I'm on an EGT kick...:)

More boost should theoretically reduce exhaust temps if the boost increase is "independent" of additional fueling, right?

In other words, if we add more air to the fire without directly adding more fuel, we should see lower EGTs, no?

That has been my observation. But remember, if the Fuel is there EGTs will actually go UP.

OK, that makes sense Fingers. In other words, if we have more boost, the ECM is going to try to fuel more to compensate for what it interprets is a lean condition.

As I've said many times--What good is all kinds of power if it's not usuable? Part of what is so appealing to me about turbo diesel pickups is the fact that they are SO versatile. They can be raced Sunday, driven to work Monday, and pull 15K pounds Tuesday!

What I'm saying is that it still makes me scratch my head why I'm on a "more power" quest when I CAN'T use it for towing!

I realize that the BIG tunes are just too radical for towing, but I'd like to be able to use my 65 or 80 HP Predator tune when pulling without hitting 1200° so easily.

Work your magic Fingers... :)

How does a diesel interpret a lean condition? I don't think it has the capability. I think it reads the airflow and does what it can to add enough fuel. Again I have a lot to learn on the Bosch injectors. Is there controll over on time with them like a gasser? I believe the HEUI is actuated by electricity but there is no on time in the equation.

I think what fingers means is that since there is more air, the extra diesel is being burnt instead of expelled out the exhaust (unburnt) and the side effect of the extra diesel being burnt is higher EGTs.

How does a diesel interpret a lean condition? I don't think it has the capability. I think it reads the airflow and does what it can to add enough fuel. Again I have a lot to learn on the Bosch injectors. Is there controll over on time with them like a gasser? I believe the HEUI is actuated by electricity but there is no on time in the equation.

There is no "lean" on a diesel. Lean is just less power. At idle, you are perhaps 200:1 A/F ratio. At WOT full boost you are perhaps 10:1 (overfueled and smoking hard). The engine only cares about A/F as it applies to emissions and fuel economy, it will run superlean and superrich.

The injector control receives a signal from the PCM that tells it what duration to run the primary shot and main shot. We are "Common Rail", and our injectors work similiar to how the cars do, except we are direct combustion chamber injection, and our fuel pressure varies as commanded by the PCM.

It's all a balance of drive pressure Vs. manifold pressure. Any boost much above 32 psi gets drive pressure way out of line and cost you as much in power as you gain in EGT reduction. The turbine design is just to small for much boost over the 32 psi range. Mind you it can be made but it just doesn't do much good. The boost and fuel are all controlled just fine within the ECM up to 30 psi and can be adjusted to levels higher than that but you begin loosing some of the control feedback when you go above that point. Just to try and make it very clear here more boost does not mean more HP. If you want to get the turbine up to speed you need heat and drive pressure to do it, the faster the heat rise the faster the turbo comes up to speed but one needs to be able to control the rate at which the turbine speed increases or you will over speed the unit and that will be about a $3000.00 repair bill!

correct me if i am wrong but isn't boost manifold back pressure so anything above a certain amount would just be a waste but if we could flow more air in and out of the motor the boost numbers would drop but we would make more power because we would flow more air and then we spin the turbo faster or bigger turbo to bring the boost up again to the same numbers of boost we got before the incease of air moving through the motor we would make even more hp. all the work i have done with the company vortech superchargers for gassers we find to be true.

In the compressor map for a turbo you will see "efficiency" areas. The higher the efficiency, the less the turbo heats up the air to make the same boost.

Does anyone have a map of the LLY turbo?

One needs to remember there are two parts to a turbocharger, the compressor map and the turbine map. Looking only at one map will give an indication of what might be going on but one without the other is usless.
Pressure in and of itself is just the restriction to flow. So to increase flow you need to remove the restriction. Since our motors (diesels) have no throttle blades as a gas motor does, the restrictions are all hard parts that would need to be improved to get any gains. So the quick easy way is to increase the pressure to force more through the restrictions an into the cylinders. The draw back is heat and exhaust backpressure or normally called drive pressure.

Turbos that are approximately the size ours are often have good efficiency up to 3:1 pressure ratio, so while our EGT's will go nuts, there should be power to be had with relatively high pre-turbo exhaust pressures. The tunes I've seen that are over 450HP are between 30 and 40 PSI.

It would be nice to know what our map looks like, and what kind of shaft RPM we are spinning at 40 PSI. But Garrett is kinda tight lipped about it.

The key as stated previously is balance. I have yet to see a box, tuner etc for the LLY that has really done this well on it's own or could not be improved upon. We ran a lot of tests on Fingers' truck and at times created more questions than answers. In the end, I believe we have a pretty good idea how to go about this mod for the LLY. We'll have to sift thru that data, but I believe that the beta boost Diablo tunes were the most difficult to improve upon by adding boost. Some could not be improved upon, and others (particularly the Edge modules) responded extremely well. One thing is for certain, it does not take a lot of boost to perk up your average tune, and if you are running 35+ psi with the LLY stock turbo you aren't getting very efficient turbo operation...

My truck is rigged to measure drive pressure and vane position. JK's Dyno is now rigged to record them too. I have been facinated with the relation for a while now.

Our Turbo does an acceptable job up to about 30 PSI, From there, parasitic factors seem to come on in a big way. What is interesting is the vanes are near full open (least drive power) when making the 35 PSI. So something is jamming it up for us to see 80+ PSI drive pressure. I will be tapping the pipe just past the turbo to see what, if any, restriction is coming from the down pipe. I might tap the scroll to see if pressures are high there too. Candidates are: downpipe, Turbo, Manifold to turbo pipe (what a POS) or the rest of the exhaust system (I'm running 5" pipes) Sure would be nice if it was one of the bolt on pieces.

Steve, you have a downpipe coming out soon, How restrictive was/is the old one?

who is this Jonh that is going to sell them and how do we get a hold of him?

who is this Jonh that is going to sell them and how do we get a hold of him?

John Kennedy from Kennedy Diesel. His username is Kennedy and he has a link in his signature to his website.

For the curious, here are a few plots of candidate boost sticks for the Juice on level 5. I would love to get these two versions to merge. The spike on the one curve is a real kicker. I have been running it for a bit. Almost no smoke on start and clean from there on.

Ran the 766 before and it smokes a bit down low but cleans up nicely as the revs climb. Of the two, I like the way this one drives better. Peddle is progressive and strong.

Neither of these do much for the stock tune. Just not enough fuel to make use of the air.

You need some big fuel... :D

Wow . . . those both look great but the EGTs with the 766 are pretty amazing!!

You need some big fuel... :D

Ynot had plenty, but we ran into the limits of the turbo and/or the supporting plumbing. I have a few prototypes that run the turbo right off the map, but that proved not to be the answer.

IMO two things need to happen to run over 30 PSI of boost to any benifit. One, it needs to be controlled with a sensor in the correct range. Two, the whole induction system needs to be gone over to see if anything can be done to open it up. Probably a fantasy on my part, but it would be great if we could bolt on a few replacement parts and get the flow needed.

Ynot had plenty, but we ran into the limits of the turbo and/or the supporting plumbing. I have a few prototypes that run the turbo right off the map, but that proved not to be the answer.

IMO two things need to happen to run over 30 PSI of boost to any benifit. One, it needs to be controlled with a sensor in the correct range. Two, the whole induction system needs to be gone over to see if anything can be done to open it up. Probably a fantasy on my part, but it would be great if we could bolt on a few replacement parts and get the flow needed.


Like a supercharger, you mean.... ;)

Almost no smoke on start and clean from there on.

Ran the 766 before and it smokes a bit down low but cleans up nicely as the revs climb.

Nicely? Clean?

What a difference a week makes :exactly:

Finger's truck with Edge on 5 doesn't smoke much more than my basically stock 6.5. I know; I tried my best.....:grd:

Wow! This is most impressive, Fingers! I would love to try one of these for EGT reduction alone.

Do you have any info on what the boost does with the smaller tunes?

would like to know how this effects the edge on level 2 and 3

less pronounced HP gains over Juice alone, even lower EGTs than level 5.

What are your compressor outlet temps? I'm curious but does anyone have any idea about the compressor map if we are approaching choke flow, and on the low end, how much surge margin do we have?

What are your compressor outlet temps? I'm curious but does anyone have any idea about the compressor map if we are approaching choke flow, and on the low end, how much surge margin do we have?

I have seen 450* F but the intercooler handles it just fine. That is not an indication of choke/surge lines. Indications are we are running out of drive.

To my knowledge there are no published specs for the VVT turbo.

I have seen 450* F but the intercooler handles it just fine. That is not an indication of choke/surge lines. Indications are we are running out of drive.

To my knowledge there are no published specs for the VVT turbo.

I tried last year to get map data on our turbo, Garrett said NO, spoke to a design engineer in Houston who said he would lose his job if he told me anything about it. They are under strict non-disclosure agreements, and he wasn't talkin'. Censored Censored Censored

He did confirm some vague abilities I posed, but as for hard data.....I don't think anyone is gonna get it.

.

Fingers,

Thanks for your continued efforts to improve upon the power and driveability of our trucks. As an edge user, I am VERY interested in this modification as boost remains LOW and EGT's have been a problem. I am looking forward to getting my hands on one of these Boost Sticks ASAP. Keep up the good work!

I believe that the beta boost Diablo tunes were the most difficult to improve upon by adding boost.

JK,
Couple of questions.
1. Are you saying that with the Predator 2.02 that the Boost stick is not that effective?........or............
2. Does the 2.02 version already boost as well as the Boost stick?..........or............
3. Both

Or am I just missing the poiint altogether:confused:

Please keep in mind that I am not very smart when it comes to this sort of thing (or anything elsr for that matter)

JK,
Couple of questions.
1. Are you saying that with the Predator 2.02 that the Boost stick is not that effective?........or............
2. Does the 2.02 version already boost as well as the Boost stick?..........or............
3. Both

Or am I just missing the poiint altogether:confused:

Please keep in mind that I am not very smart when it comes to this sort of thing (or anything elsr for that matter)

The 2.02 and later beta's already have good boost maps for the ECMs to use. They are hard to improve on. The only difference of note is the reduction in EGTs with the BS. This all being on a reasonably stock engine.

JK's truck has, I think, 20% over injectors. He ends up benifitting from the extra air. Even with the newer tunes from Diablo, he has room for more air. So the BS improves things for him even with the 2.02 and later tunes.

I'm not trying to be cryptic. Sorry if it comes across that way. Some of this is not straight forward. The bottom line is that most power tunes do not increase boost to match the additional fuel they provide. (can you say smoke!) Those that do are hard to improve on, all things being equal.

JK's truck has, I think, 20% over injectors. He ends up benifitting from the extra air.

We need info on those :ro)

Thank you Fingers. I have the Predator version 2.02 and was just curious as to how much I would benefit from the BS. All the work you have done to help improve an already awsome powerplant is greatly appreciated.

We need info on those :ro)

Send money to JK and get bigger holes in your injectors.

What other info do u need?

If u have to ask price, your NOT in the 1% club ):h

Send money to JK and get bigger holes in your injectors.

What other info do u need?

If u have to ask price, your NOT in the 1% club ):h

How about
- HP gains
- 1/4 gains
- EGT gains
- Are they really worth it over a stack
- I there a stack/chip that works better with them
and
- are they really available?

But I am guessing you have all these answers so please.. let us know :D

Um I am ready to get the Finger BS... Boost stick that is :)
Awesome work guys! Keep it up!

I am ready for the BS. When are they going up for sale?

Any Udate On When The Bs Stick Will Be Ready?

A select few, and I am lucky enough to be one, are testing now. My results are above and beyond anything I was thinking when I started this thread. Good job Fingers and JK!

Do a search for those tests.

It would be irresponsable to release the BS till all the testers have had a reasonable time to actually use the product and highlight it's features and bugs.

Sounds like my motto, I may move slowly but when the final iteration comes out it is ready to go.

.

im in when they are avilable

Wow fingers you better get engineering job for GM. Get rid of the ones that are making stupid mistakes on the Dmax. I'd like the BS and the stack sealer kit. You could be responsible for fixing all the LLY problems. Hey bud your Saleen mustang does not stand a chance against my Fingers Durmax. Special order.