Hello,

My english is unfortunately very bad. The US-forum is my last chance. In my district “tirol”(AUSTRIA)
I see only 4 GM 6.5 Diesels PickUp it perhaps gives 6 cars. The experience of the workshops is accordingly bad.
The history from the beginning:
I had 2 problems if the engine light lighted up.

The engine reduced the RPM to maximally 2900.
The truck then could be started only with full power.By Heathdiesel I bought a new FSD and installed it at the aluminum sheet before the front axle. Problems invariably.
By Heathdiesel I bought “GM filter harness” this new cable to optical encoder sensor port. Problems invariably.
At last I bought a new IP by Heathdiesel.(without FSD).
I did install the injection pump. RPM 3100 is good, but it starts very hard cold and hot.
My problem: it smokes too much up the idling and stronger on the highway.
(At this stage I don’t get an official-approval.)
For a test I did put my old FSD on the IP – non better than the new one.
´Perhaps now my error comes : I forgot to remove the new one.
I droved the car 3 miles in order to refuel, but 100 feet before my car repairing garage the engine stopped.I cannot restart.
I saw into the engine room if I could see an error and touched the FSD on. It was hot. Therefore I removed it and attached the new again. Thenceforward I cannot restart.
My last attempt to start the machine: (Before I opened one injectorpipeline).
I sprayed gasoline with the spray gun when starting into the intake manifold. With this not very correct method, the engine 800-1000 RPM turned as long sprayed I gasoline, without spraying the engine stopped.
Afterwards no diesel comes out of the injectorpipeline. I think the IP don`t work.
I tested:
I turned the ignition key to the 'on' position (engine off). The fuel shut-off solenoid turns ( I heare a “klic”) and it received electricity.I think it works.
The “fuel solenoid” between the 8 IP pipeline gets electricity when I start with gas. I solved the Diesel supply to the the injection pump and started. Diesel comes (about ¼ litres)
Air filter it new.
Glow plugs timingsoleoid works and the plugs are OK.

Can you help me??

helmut

Helmut you the same one at the Page with the Garfield cat avatar Welcome to Diesel Place.

We need a little more info so we can help you out, truck year and mods would be a lot of help see the Welcome note sticky at the top of the threads here. There is a hard start list in the FAQ sticky as well; read through that and see if you missed any of the basic steps there, I suspect maybe an OPS issue or blocked filter, read the FAQ though try the tests there and then let us know how you made out. Also have you pulled any codes you can list if your truck is 95 or older you can read them with a paperclip as detailed in FAQs, if 96 newer you will need a scan tool or code reader to access the codes, go to shop if you need to; & pay for the code reading and let us help you sort out what you find .

On re-read are you saying you sprayed gasoline(benzine) into the intake of a running Diesel???

Okay on 3rd re read I see you have a 95 OBD-I which means as far as codes go you can read them from home, Olee how far are you from Helmut maybe you can help him out some.

Please after updating your sig line;

Detail again for us what happened after each trouble shooting attempt after the 1st appearance of the original problem, lumped into one long post it's hard to follow sequence of events.

You replaced the IP and this fixed or didn't fix a problem, you replaced a PMD and this fixed or not fixed a problem, or a different one came up, try in as much detail as you can in order from 1st problem until now what was done and what was result , if an improvemnet happened what was next event and how soon did it happen.

You may need to start all over again from square 1 with basics as detailed in FAQs.

Guys if he really did spray an engine direct feed with gas to the intake, what are we looking at major problem, is that any worse than a erred fill up with gas into the tank instead of Diesel?

With the RPMs being restricted, there is the possibility that the catylitic converter (soot trap) is clogged. When the CAT becomes clogged, it makes it difficult for the motor to rev up.

Clogged Cat, Hmnn since mine "fell off" I had forgotten about that possibility; Helmut that happens rarely but should not prevent starting unless solid blocked, and your gasoline addition caused it to block further. matbe dicsonnect the input flange to the cat , or turbo outlet pipe and run that way to see if there is any improvement, it will be kind of loud when you accelerate the engine

It could also be low fuel pressure to the injector pump from an inoperable OPS/Lift Pump.

It could also be low fuel pressure to the injector pump from an inoperable OPS/Lift Pump.
That's what I was thinking also

Helmut check your PMs I asked Olee on the same PM I sent you, he is in Germany to see if he could not help you out. I don't recall which part of Germany he is in, but at least if you call him you will be speaking a common language and same time zones I think.

I'm willing to help as much as I can. I'm about 800 or 900kms north of Austria, and we can arrange for a phone call.

Since he has a hard starting/no starting/shutoff condition after changing the IP, can that be a timing problem? Can he have broken the new IP by running it with incorrect alignment?


Helmut, kannst Du nochmal in Deutsch beschreiben, was Du gemacht hast und wie der Status jetzt ist? Gegen Ende Deines Postings kann ich leider nicht mehr so ganz folgen ... Wir können das in diesem Thread machen; wenn das Problem klarer wird, finden wir vielleicht eine Lösung.

Hast Du wirklich Benzin in den Luftfilter gesprüht bzw. direkt in den Lufteinlaßverteiler?

Hattest Du zwischendurch zwei FSDs _zugleich_ angeschlossen?

Läuft die Dieselförderpumpe richtig? Läuft Diesel auf den Boden, wenn Du am Wasserabscheider den Ablaßhahn aufdrehst und versuchst, den Motor zu starten?

Hast Du die neue Einspritzpumpe richtig eingestellt? Vielleicht ist das Timing nicht richtig.

:exactly: :funnypost :lol: :Nothing_f :D

:exactly: :funnypost :lol: :Nothing_f :D

Kannst Du Deutsch? :)

I think it lost something in the translation? LOL Sorry Lee can't help myself some times.

Ja, es ist meine Muttersprache!

helmut

I think it lost something in the translation? LOL Sorry Lee can't help myself some times.

Never mind :) My posting wasn't a translation --- or did you translate what I've been writing with some translation software? The outcome of such software is usually somewhat funny :)

Ja, es ist meine Muttersprache!
helmut

Gut, dann schreib' doch mal hier oder ruf' mich an :) Wenn klarer wird, was Du alles gemacht hast, können wir die richtigen Fragen stellen und finden vielleicht eine Lösung.

Hier gibt es auch keine Werkstätten o. ä., die sich mit diesen Autos auskennen. Das einzige, was geht, ist das Auslesen der Fehlercodes bei einem Opel/GM Händler, der 50km von hier entfernt ist.

Entscheidend ist immer, herauszufinden, was das Problem verursacht. Wenn man das erstmal weiß, kann man es beheben oder eine Werkstatt beauftragen. Wenn die Werkstatt weiß, was sie machen soll, bekommt sie das hin --- wenn nicht, dann taugt sie nix und man muß sich eh eine andere suchen.


PS:

automatic translation (http://dictionary.reference.com/translate/text.html):


Well, then write ' nevertheless times here or call ' me at if clearer will, which you made everything, can we the correct questions place and find perhaps one solution here gives it also no workshops o. ae., which are been versed with these cars. The only one, which goes, is far away from here be crucial the selection of the error codes with OPEL/GM a dealer, the 50km always is to find out what causes the problem. If one knows that first times, one can repair it or assign a workshop. If the workshop knows, what is to make it, she gets that -- if not, then it is suited nix and one must itself look for eh another.


That's terrible :)

Hallo OLEE!

Den Fehler mit dem aufleuchten des Servicelichtes habe ich schon zwei Jahre.
Weil ich in München den TÜV machen muss und dabei, zu Abgasüberprüfung, der
Motor 3100 RPM gedreht wird musste ich die E-Pumpe tauschen.
Das habe ich so gemacht wie es in diesem Forum beschrieben und bebildert ist.
Nach dem Einbau war die Maschine nur mühsam zu starten, bis die Luft aus den
Leitungen war, doch sie ging ruhig und normal, leider rauchte der Motor kalt und warm.
Die Maschine ließ sich auch nur mit Vollgas (kalt oder warm) starten.
OK, mittlerweile weiß ich, das ein OT Offset gemacht gehört hätte.
Dann wollte ich wissen ob mein altes PDM oder FSD wirklich defekt war und
schloss es an. Am Motor änderte sich nichts.
Dann bin ich ungefähr 2 km zum tanken gefahren. In einer engen Kurve 100 Meter
Vor meiner Garage ist mir der Motor im Leerlauf abgestorben. Ich konnte ihn nicht mehr
starten. Getankt wurde Diesel, laut Automatenrechnung.
Ich öffnete die Motorhaube und suchte einen eventuellen Fehler, dabei fasste ich das
FSD an. Es war sehr heiß. Also steckte ich es ab und das neue (ist am Unterfahrschutz
der Vorderachse montiert) wieder an. Seit diesem Tag 11-07-2005 habe ich ihn nicht
mehr zum laufen gebracht.(Cod 65 danach gelöscht)
Eine Woche vor dem Einbau der E-Pume habe ich auf Anweisung den Druck der
Förderpumpe gemessen. (Einem langen Schlauch mit einem Manometer von der Entlüftungsschraube bis zum Scheibenwischer.) Druck im Leerlauf und auf der Auto-
bahn 5 psi.
Seit dem 11-07-2005 habe ich überprüft:
Den Druck am Eingang zur E-Pumpe und an der Entlüftung.
In der Hoffnung das Fuel Shut-Off Solenoid sei defekt testete ich, ob es bei eingeschaltener Zündung und mit Gas Strom bekommt; Ja. Am leisen „klick“entnahm ich das es arbeitet.
Das Fuel Solenoid zwischen den 8 Leitungen an der E-Pumpe bekommt auch Strom
beim Starten mit Gas.
Ob der Antrieb der E-Pumpe gebrochen ist habe ich noch nicht geprüft. Was könnte
gebrochen sein; die Welle an der E-Pumpe oder der Antrieb im Motor?
Die E-Pumpe habe ich sicher richtig angebaut, weil bei falscher Stellung des P-Triebes
zum Motorantrieb die 3 Schrauben nicht gesetzt werden können.
Seit dem 11-07-2005 habe ich rechts vorne an der E-Düse die Leitung gelöst. Bei keinem der Startversuche(auch bei dem mit Benzinsprühen/cod 18 35 62 "ich denke nicht real") ist an dieser Stelle Diesel ausgetreten.
E-Pumpen habe ich schon drei getauscht: GM 5,7 Diesel, Merzedes W 126 Benzin und 124 Diesel. Daher habe ich mir diesen Austausch zugetraut.
Nun stehe ich sehr dumm da. Das Auto steht unbeweglich in meiner kleinen Halle neben meiner Bayliner 2655 dadurch kann an dem Boot der Unterwasseranstrich nicht gemacht werden, weil ich mit dem Gabelstapler nicht herankomme. Und meine Frau sagt mir, dass wir schon seit 4 Wochen in Kroatien sein sollten um von Insel zu Insel zu fahren.
Ich werde bald von einem Benzinkanister und einem Feuerzeug träumen.
Falls Dir etwas einfällt das nützt oder die Ursache eingrenzt sage es mir bitte.
Wenn es leichter ist zu telefonieren und es Dir recht ist maile mir Deine Nummer.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen helmut

Ok, here's kind of a translation, with comments:


+ The SES light is on during the last two years.


+ Austrian emmissions check requires revving to 3100 RPM.

Helmut replaced the IP because he couldn't rev that high.
He did it as descriped here in the forum, and he has some
experience with it from replacing IPs on three other cars
before, one of these being a gasser. But it seems he didn't
check the TDC offset because he didn't know he should do that.

After replacing the IP, the engine was hard to start until
he got all the air out of the system. Then, the engine
ran smooth and normal, but it was smoking, both cold and warm.
And it could only be started (cold and warm) with full throttle
since then.

Before he replaced the IP, he checked the fuel pressure of
the lift pump. He seems to have used a tube going from the
bleeding cap on the fuel filter to the wipers so that he could
read the pressure while driving. Pressure was 5 PSI at idle and
while highway driving.


+ He wanted to find out if the old FSD was actually broken or not.

He plugged in the old FSD and drove about 1-1/2 miles to
a gas station to refuel. When he was almost back at home,
the engine suddenly died while it was idling. [I think he
was just off the pedal while cornering. I'd say he turned
off the engine at the station; most people do that here.]

According to the bill from the station, he actually refueled
with Diesel.

The engine couldn't be restarted. Helmut checked the FSD,
and it was hot to the touch. He unplugged the old one and
plugged in the new one.

The new FSD is mounted on the underride-guard at the front
axle. [I think that is exactly the Heath setup?]

Nevertheless, the engine doesn't start anymore. That was
on 2005-11-07.


+ Since then, he checked the following:

. fuel pressure going to IP and at the bleeding cap
. fuel shut off solenoid gets current with key in the ON
position and when the pedal is depressed; it makes
a klick and thus is supposed to be working
. there's another fuel solenoid in between the fuel rails
at the IP, and it's getting current when trying to start
the engine with pedal depressed
. fuel rail on the front right injector: no fuel comes
out when trying to start the engine, even not when
he tryed with spraying gasoline


Helmut wonders if the driving assembly of the IP might be broken, either the
driving shaft of the IP or the drive (drive gear?) within the engine. He's
sure to have aligned the IP correctly because if he didn't, he wouldn't
have been able to install the three bolts.


That's it, the engine cannot be started.

How long is he cranking?

Does he have a good ground and good connections to the IP? If some of the wiring was questionable, it could show up as a no fuel at the injector.

Is this a new IP or a used one?

Helmut, hast Du mal nachgeschaut, was wirklich im Tank drin ist? Vielleicht ist das ja doch Benzin.

Welche Farbe hat der Qualm gehabt?

Mit Einspritzpumpen kenne ich mich leider nicht aus; ich würde nur vermuten, daß das Timing nicht stimmt, weil die Pumpe nicht in der richtigen Stellung angebracht ist. Das könnte die Startprobleme und das Qualmen hervorrufen. Ob dadurch der Antrieb der Pumpe kaputtgehen kann, weiß ich nicht.


Ein kaputtes FSD läßt den Motor unvermittelt ausgehen, auch beim Fahren, und dann kann man nicht wieder starten, bis das FSD abgekühlt ist. Aber Du hast ja ein neues, also sollte es daran nicht liegen. Ist das alte an der Pumpe angeschraubt?

Die Telephonnummer hatte ich Dir schon geschickt. Du kannst mich gerne anrufen, nur fürchte ich, daß ich wenig sagen kann. Zum Glück hatte ich mit der Pumpe noch keine Probleme, abgesehen von einem kaputten FSD. Wir müssen mal abwarten, was für Antworten jetzt kommen. TDG kennt sich mit den Einspritzpumpen supergut aus, vielleicht schreibt er ja 'was.


Mein Urlaub fängt auch bald an ... In Tirol war ich noch nicht, da könnte ich ja mal für 'ne Woche oder so hinfahren und dann weiter nach Portugal :)


PS:
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39295

Anscheinend muß man Zylinder 1 auf OT gestellt haben, bevor man die Pumpe anschraubt. Dann braucht man einen Scanner, um das Timing richtig einzustellen. Hast Du das gemacht?

How long is he cranking?

Does he have a good ground and good connections to the IP? If some of the wiring was questionable, it could show up as a no fuel at the injector.

Is this a new IP or a used one?

Wie lange versuchst Du zu starten?

Hast Du gute Masseverbindungen und ist die Verkabelung der Einspritzpumpe gut? Falls die Verkabelung nicht gut ist, kann das dazu führen, daß kein Diesel an der Einspritzdüse ankommt.

Ist das eine neue Pumpe oder eine gebrauchte?


It seems to be a new pump from Heath, he says so in his first posting.

What's the best way to check the wiring of the pump? Are there some plugs or so where he could measure the voltage? I've never had the lower intake off on mine, so I don't know how things look like underneath.

[quote=knkreb;643799]How long is he cranking?

Does he have a good ground and good connections to the IP? If some of the wiring was questionable, it could show up as a no fuel at the injector.

Is this a new IP or a used one?

Hello,
The IP is new and comes from the USA. My firstproblem is, which I cannot start the engine. That the machine smoked now is become clear. (by the missing TDC Offset.) I have a guidance gotten with which one an TDC offset without scanner making can. This sets that the engine runs however ahead. It is reliably Diesel in the tank. I would have gasoline into that nearly empty tank can one that smell. I cannot imagine with the 1.5 miles which I drove some electrically connections desolate became. I cannot translate these words: “How long is he cranking?”

helmut

I cannot translate these words: “How long is he cranking?”
helmut

'Cranking' heißt soviel wie 'den Motor Anlassen/Starten' oder 'den Anlasser laufen lassen'.

A new injection pump was installed but possibly not set right. Then the engine stalls and hasn't restarted. There's good fuel to the Ip but nothing out the injectors when cranking?

Things that come to mind to check are: the black ground from the fuel solenoid harness must be securly attached on top of the IP. It won't run without it.

Also, there's a cylinderical fuel shut off solenoid in the IP that looks like a roll of quaters. It should pop open with 12 volt applied to it's wires.

Where is the IP sitting on the timing cover. It should be as centered as possible. A little to the left or right can make for hard starting.

Hello quantum mechanik!
A new injection pump was installed but possibly not set right.
Then the engine stalls and hasn't restarted.
Can the engine be started at all if the IP left is adjusted?
There's good fuel to the IP but nothing out the injectors when cranking?
No diesel out the injectors when cranking!
Things that come to mind to check are:
the black ground from the fuel solenoid harness must be securly attached on top of the IP. It won't run without it. The black cable was already screwed on with receipt on the IP.

Also, there's a cylinderical fuel shut off solenoid in the IP that looks like a roll of quaters. It should pop open with 12 volt applied to it's wires. Yes, With 12 V I hear "click"Where is the IP sitting on the timing cover. It should be as centered as possible. Yes, its centered! A little to the left or right can make for hard starting.
I have a guidance for the TDC offset, here am her:
1.The Tech 2 scanner costs in excess of $4000. I have a suggestion for you to try.
2. Put a scribe mark on the injection pump / mount flange so that you can see how far you have moved it.
3. Then loosen the three nuts holding the injection pump.
4. Next, rotate the injection pump toward the driver-side of the vehicle about 1mm.
5. Tighten only the upper nut.
6. Turn on ignition key (engine off).
7. Push throttle to the floor and hold it there for at least 45 seconds.
8. Then release the throttle and turn-off the ignition key for at least 30 seconds.
9. Then start the engine---see how well it runs.

10. When you move the injection pump in this manner, the computer will 'learn' the new pump position …..(timing).
11. Do this in steps until you cause the 'service engine soon' light to come on.
12. Then rotate the injection pump back towards the passenger-side in small steps until the light is no longer coming on.

helmut

Helmut,
I don't know about the EU , but in the US many shops carrry a Snap-On MT2500 it will do most of the diagnostic tests as a Tech 2, see if you can find a shop with one of those, also used ones are available on ebay for reasonable prices, just make sure you get the cartridge that covers your trucks year. There are also several new laptop/palmpilot software tools several members report good results with.

Read thess threads found in the FAQs Sticky notes locked in the forum header might give you some diagnostic tips you haven't tried yet

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19990

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2599

Helmut has called me this evening --- it seems that the fuel solenoids are working. My suggestions have been some electrical problem or air sticking in the fuel lines. He has filled the pump with fuel when installing it, but my idea is that the fuel is out now from driving to the gas station.

I've been talking to a friend of mine, and he also suggested to bleed the lines going to the injectors until fuel comes out. He also described how to do it:


Helmut, Du müßtest mal versuchen, die Leitungen zu entlüften, die von der Pumpe zu den Einspritzdüsen gehen. Dazu löst Du bei möglichst vielen Zylindern die Verschraubungen der Leitungen an den Düsen, am besten bei mindestens 3--4 Zylindern und nicht alle auf einer Seite. Die Leitungen selber kannst Du dabei dranlassen.

Dann versuchst Du, den Motor zu starten, bis irgendwann Diesel rauskommt. Du mußt allerdings aufpassen, daß der Anlasser nicht zu lange läuft und heiß wird!

Hast Du Schaltgetriebe oder Automatik? Wenn Du Schaltgetriebe hast, dann kannst Du besser das Auto ein längeres Stück (5km und mehr) im 2ten Gang schleppen, um den Motor und damit die Pumpe zu drehen. Mit Automatik geht das nicht, da machst Du ehr das Getriebe kaputt.

Sobald Diesel aus den Leitungen kommt, kannst Du die Schrauben an den Einspritzdüsen wieder zudrehen und probieren, ob der Motor jetzt läuft. Wenn ja, dann läuft er wahrscheinlich nicht gut, aber die restliche Luft geht mit der Zeit raus, oder Du entlüftest bei laufendem Motor auch die Leitungen zu den restlichen Düsen.

Es kann ziemlich lange dauern, bis die Luft raus ist!

Mir erscheint das ganz einleuchtend und auf jeden Fall einen Versuch wert. Wenn der Antrieb der Pumpe nicht kaputt ist und wenn die Elektrik funktioniert, was mag es dann noch anderes sein als Luft in den Leitungen?


Has anybody here swapped a pump? QM? TDG? How hard is it to get all the air out of the fuel lines, and how do you do it?

Even with the pump full of air, if you pressure up the fuel pump and crank the engine with #1 injector loose fuel will squirt out in less than 10 cranks.
On the EFI pump the optic sensor, PMD and fuel solenoid can stop the injection pressure from leaving the pump. have you tried unplugging the optical sensor and cranking it?

Hello quantum mechanic

Have you tried unplugging the optical sensor and cranking. Yes. Ton‘t resuld.
My ultimate test:
I dismantled from the old IP the fuel solenoid. Then I loosened the connecting plugs at the new IP from fuel solenoid and joined on the old fuel solenoid. I connected the black wire with the IP. When starting with full power the small wave at the stepping motor did not shift.
The pressure of the fuel pump is 5 psi, ignition at engine turns not.
Can I get a connection diagram for the wiring between the IP and that throttle control? At high resolution.
What shell I do, take gasoline and a lighter?
Best regards
helmut