I was at The Diesel Stop this evening cruisin' through the forums.

It seems that the 6.0 Powerstrokes are having some heat issues too.

www.thedieselstop.com (http://www.thedieselstop.com)

PEACHESandDIESEL
2005 Chevy 3500 Dually
Duramax/Ally
(Two Weeks Old as of this post):)

My neighbor has 6,000mi on his 05 6.0 Ford. He is having overheating and trans issues. Dealer says "it's normal".

Not overheating like we are... I've got 5 '04 and '05 Ford friends around me, and they do significant work with their trucks w/o the percentage of problems we have (as in none of the ones I know of have a touch of over heating).

Heck, my one friend loves to rib me when he's riding with me as to why the hell my fan runs so much. Well, why the hell DOES it??!

I kept my Ford just 'cause I'm not sure where this heat thing is going with the Chevy...

Well for every overheating GM there are several that don't...

Ford would be the same, some overheat soem don't!!!!

It'll get straightend out, I am just happy that my LLy runs fien with no Heat issues...

Well for every overheating GM there are several that don't...

Ford would be the same, some overheat some don't!!!!

It'll get straightend out, I am just happy that my LLy runs fien with no Heat issues...

Hmm, last week you seemed to think that those of us with overheating problems were crazy. Glad to see you know think that things will get straightened out.

Have a fien day.

I was at The Diesel Stop this evening cruisin' through the forums.

It seems that the 6.0 Powerstrokes are having some heat issues too.

www.thedieselstop.com (http://www.thedieselstop.com)

PEACHESandDIESEL
2005 Chevy 3500 Dually
Duramax/Ally
(Two Weeks Old as of this post):)

That 6.0 has A banks turner, unless theres A problem, the stock 6.0 runs cool. I pull A 8000# trailer and I think I've only have herd the fan come on once in two years.

Some GM's overheat, some Ferd's overheat, haven't seen any Dodge's overheating though! Dodge did a good job on their grille and stack, wide open with a shroud to direct air into the stack. Oh well. JJ

Not overheating like we are... I've got 5 '04 and '05 Ford friends around me, and they do significant work with their trucks w/o the percentage of problems we have (as in none of the ones I know of have a touch of over heating).

Heck, my one friend loves to rib me when he's riding with me as to why the hell my fan runs so much. Well, why the hell DOES it??!

I kept my Ford just 'cause I'm not sure where this heat thing is going with the Chevy...

I too have several friends who happen to have the new LLY engines. None of them have had any of the overheat issues and they tow some might big RVs. (11,000 lbs and up) My point is that they might not be overheating as much as that forum would lead one to believe and percentage wise neither is the LLY.

P & D
2005 Chevy 3500, LLY/Ally...2 weeks in my possession now. :ro)

Some GM's overheat, some Ferd's overheat, haven't seen any Dodge's overheating though! Dodge did a good job on their grille and stack, wide open with a shroud to direct air into the stack. Oh well. JJ

That's the big ugly DODGE grill doing what's most important.

http://www.getdieselpower.com/my04dodge_files/plow/plowon/images/DSCN6279.jpg

yup I have not read any posts about the dodge over heating

The Furd overheating issue is actually two different things (my bud has one... don't blame me) the first is that their gauges are terrible, actually the Furd gauges are more like idiot lights and some of the idiot lights er I mean gauges are calibrated wrong. The bigger issue is the head gaskets on Furds are failing (gee I thought that was only supposed to happen with the aluminum heads on the Dmaxes :rolleyes: ) causing the engines to burp when they get hot due to combustion gases getting into the coolant. Fortunately for him my bud's truck only needed the gage flash update....

Funny thing though I've recently found out my bud's Furd will get to 240, pulling the same big load as my truck! It's just that the factory gauge in the Furd never budges so with stock instrumentation you'd never know you were getting warm.

FWIW... which probably ain't much ):h

I'd go down the rabbit trail with you on a lot of issues with the "furd", but not one about them (stock) overheating. Sorry, my personal experience is 180 degrees opposite.

That's the big ugly DODGE grill doing what's most important.
.... actually I don't think they are ugly....but that big red thing is!

I'd go down the rabbit trail with you on a lot of issues with the "furd", but not one about them (stock) overheating. Sorry, my personal experience is 180 degrees opposite.

You might need to convert over to a Ferd to stop the overheating! :exactly: :muahaha: :grd:

Well, I have been reading, with great interest, all the posts about overheating and high temps. I am not really concerned ( I currently own an '02 and a new '05) with the higher temps in these two trucks especially when I compare this with other GM vehicles manufactured since the early 80's. I have raced, restored, rebuilt, and swapped GM powertrains into all types of vehicles including 240Z's, Jeeps, early Jeeps, etc.

In the early 80's, I became very interested in electric cooling fans versus traditional clutch fans and began experimenting with them in two vehicles which were notrious for running hot with SBC engine swaps. I swapped a Vortec 4.3 into a '90 Jeep and A/C for good meansure. I tried a conventional OEM clutch fan and ran fine except for in-city traffic with A/C on. I swapped a stock electric fan assembly from an LT-1 cop car and voila, the problem was gone.

The 240Z with a TPI or LT-1 swap was a much tougher nut. I actually read a lot of AC-Delco factory literature on cooling theory and air movement in the engine compartment. This time, the fix was a lower temp thermostat with an electric fan. Worked much better and never overheated. Lessons learned -

1.) Cooling efficiency is very dependent on the amount of space around the enginer compartment for airflow efficiency which leads to hot air escaping from the engine comparment.

2.) As engine temperatures are allowed to climb above 200 deg., due to thermostat and fan clutch temp sensing coil, it is much harder for the two items to bring engine temps within acceptable range.

3.) Hot rodders (they can be credited with the coming up with answers) quickly found out that by combining a lower thermostat temp (165 - 185 opening range) with electric fans that came on at the same time, temps can be safely/quickly controlled. THIS IS FREE HORSEPOWER!!!!

This post is very long, but, I am wondering if any of the forum members have ever tried this approach to controlling temperatures, increasing HP, quieting the fan clutch and in general, increasing the efficiency of this excellent drivetrain???

I do have a lot of knowledge and experinece in this area - anyone in for developing these type of products?? Thanks for reading this and PM or otherwise with comments.

Great Post, Red Bull! :thumb:

3.) Hot rodders (they can be credited with the coming up with answers) quickly found out that by combining a lower thermostat temp (165 - 185 opening range) with electric fans that came on at the same time, temps can be safely/quickly controlled. THIS IS FREE HORSEPOWER!!!!


Please explain how an electric fan can be free horsepower. Do the cars that have electric fan not have alternators or generator? Or do these fans some how manage to spin on there own without external power sources? If they have wires hooked up to them and these wires are connected to the cars electrical system then the power is coming from somewhere. No doubt the alternator/generator. So now instead of using the power from the crank pulley to turn the fan you now use that power to turn the alternator.
Seems like you put power into spinning a fan or put power into spinning an alternator.

Jim

While it is true that electric fans are hooked up to your 12V power, they operate off of your battery reserve which you alternator quickly re-supplies. I am not aware of what the average age/experience is of the forum member, but I am sure most of us have experience with 80's and 90's musclecars (camaros, mustangs, etc.) which have had this setup for quite a while. Have you ever stopped and asked why this has happend???

The amount of time an electric fan operates in the on position is not very long at all especially if you thermostat has a lower opening temp range. Ever opened the hood on a late model Vette or Camaro?? There is very little room for a clutch fan or belts. Don't get me wrong, the traditionalists will hang to whatever the General spits out as the best and only answer. But, I do also own a late model Vette that runs very cool even in bumper-to-bumper 100 deg. plus temps and I have changed out the thermostat to a 175 deg model and re-programmed the ECU to come on at 175 degrees. I feel much better knowing that I am not running on the ragged edge of overheating.

I have to agree with RedBull on the use of electric fans on car applications and LIGHT truck applications, free horsepower and reduced fuel consumption. If anyone remembers the fans on most later EFI cars are PCM controlled and are not allowed on over 40 mph. the airflow through the stack should be sufficient to cool the vehicle at these speeds. The problem with electric fans is that for a heavy duty application they do not move enough air. 5500 CFM for electric, and HD mech >7000CFM My Buddies ford(00PSD-:t) has only had fan clutch fully engage once, overloaded in mountains. My D/A cc drw:ro) seems to at least get to partial lockup on the fan idling with the ac running at idle. Diesels make much heat and I don't think electric fans are good idea. I think the guys on oheat solutions are on right track with airflow through stack as fix.

While it is true that electric fans are hooked up to your 12V power, they operate off of your battery reserve which you alternator quickly re-supplies. I am not aware of what the average age/experience is of the forum member, but I am sure most of us have experience with 80's and 90's musclecars (camaros, mustangs, etc.) which have had this setup for quite a while. Have you ever stopped and asked why this has happend???

The amount of time an electric fan operates in the on position is not very long at all especially if you thermostat has a lower opening temp range. Ever opened the hood on a late model Vette or Camaro?? There is very little room for a clutch fan or belts. Don't get me wrong, the traditionalists will hang to whatever the General spits out as the best and only answer. But, I do also own a late model Vette that runs very cool even in bumper-to-bumper 100 deg. plus temps and I have changed out the thermostat to a 175 deg model and re-programmed the ECU to come on at 175 degrees. I feel much better knowing that I am not running on the ragged edge of overheating.

Yes, I understand space is a consideration. Free horsepower? no. something has to recharge that battery. That takes horsepower. Perhaps a horse or two saved on a dis-engaged clutch fan is saved, but when running it will take horsepower. same as a clutched fan.

Jim

Very interesting, besides my LLY duramax, I have a 94 s-10 with 4.3 L
It always runs 210-220 degrees and I don't care for that hot of temp. I went to autoparts store to get a new thermostat and there was only 1 available; it was the 195. I bought it and also bought a GM 180 thermostat, but the 180 was not listed for my year s-10 (it was for a much earlier version 4.3 L s-10 pickup). I did replace my factory one with the 195, but I am destined to make that older 180 fit in my pickup at the next change. The only difference is that the older 180 has a larger diameter metal perimeter on it. I am going to grind down that perimeter to the exact size of the factory correct 195 so it will fit in the housing that the thermostat sits in. It might take me a couple months before I get to it but I will post when done. Who knows, maybe the same can be done for the duramax?

Yes, I understand space is a consideration. Free horsepower? no. something has to recharge that battery. That takes horsepower. Perhaps a horse or two saved on a dis-engaged clutch fan is saved, but when running it will take horsepower. same as a clutched fan.


I disagree.......The altenator will be spinning REGARDLESS of whether or not the motor has a belt driven fan or not. Somewhere in these forums, I saw that the stock fan uses 15-20 HP while engaged. There is no way that a electric fan will cause the altenator to develop a 15-20 HP load. S0, how can running an electric fan be the "same as a clutch fan??"

Even if an electric fan pulls 25 amps it isn't anywhere near the power to drive the mechanical clutch fan which can be 10, 15, even 20hp to run. Rotating mass is much lower on electric fans as well, also need less power to turn, along with frictional losses via the belt. Don't forget the mechanical fan is always turning, eating horsepower.

746 watts per hp, watts is volts x amps, so yes, free horsepower. In racing we want that power thats why they are so prevalent.

.

I'm with jholly on this one.
1) Why do people continue to compare a 300hp gas engine in a 3500lb car driving in stop and go traffic to a 6.6 turbo diesel pulling a trailer with a combined weight of at least 8-10k lbs up a mountain?

2) Show me 1 electric fan or even a pair of electric fans, OEM or aftermarket, that moves as much air as the OEM Dmax fan, maybe I'm just looking at the wrong manufactures because I can't seem to find any!

3) If anyone thinks there is a 20 hp difference between our fan and some imaginary electric fan or fans capable of moving the required air, they are either dreaming or completely lost! Whether or not you could actually detect the differences in the parasitic losses that will occur is another issue.

4) Last but not least, I really like this logic "The altenator will be spinning REGARDLESS of whether or not the motor has a belt driven fan or not"

I'm not picking on anyone just trying to apply some common sense.

I'm with jholly on this one.
1) Why do people continue to compare a 300hp gas engine in a 3500lb car driving in stop and go traffic to a 6.6 turbo diesel pulling a trailer with a combined weight of at least 8-10k lbs up a mountain?

2) Show me 1 electric fan or even a pair of electric fans, OEM or aftermarket, that moves as much air as the OEM Dmax fan, maybe I'm just looking at the wrong manufactures because I can't seem to find any!

3) If anyone thinks there is a 20 hp difference between our fan and some imaginary electric fan or fans capable of moving the required air, they are either dreaming or completely lost! Whether or not you could actually detect the differences in the parasitic losses that will occur is another issue.

4) Last but not least, I really like this logic "The altenator will be spinning REGARDLESS of whether or not the motor has a belt driven fan or not"

I'm not picking on anyone just trying to apply some common sense.
I agree 100%, where some of you get your physics is questionable.

The mechanical fan, by far is more efficient than an electrical. The fan clutch will disengage 100% when not needed. Converting rotational energy to electricity, then converting electrical energy to rotational energy (electric fans) is not efficient and per the same CFM, an electrical fan will consume more energy than a mechanical.

Regarding 165-185 thermostats making more HP, this is also not true. The real reason that the engine falls off on HP when it gets hot is typically due to the thinner air it consumes under the hood due to the elevated engine compartment temps. I've seen it numerous times on engine dynos, at the same air temp but varying the water temps, HP always went up as the engine water temp got hotter. Why? More heat in the compustion chamber was converted to mechanical energy rather than being absorbed in the cooling system.

Pretty basic stuff..

Aplication ,is the question , a electric fan installed and shrouded correctly will out perform a mech. fan, increase HP and cool quietly and effeciently, the large truck MFG are heading toward electric fans and the only real concern is the Mech fans aid in grade braking because they do take about 25 HP + and this will slow a semi down. The cooling system has to be Stacked correctly ( refer Oheat threads) and I know people with 1000+ HP pro touring cars with electric fans and no problem in traffic or on the track, yes they are not being raced like a NASCAR but are being stressed far beyond normal perameters. The Duramax trucks that are overheating have a problem beyond the fan, if the cooling system ,shrouding ,and ALL the other problems are corrected a pair of 3300 CFM fans will cool one easily , likley less cfm would work. There are large ( semi and larger) diesels running and working with electric now and you will see many more in the near future , another advantage is controll , ALL big trucks now controll the mech. fan electrically thru sensors that read AC head pressure /coolant/trans / and more ,they turn on the fan with a Jake brake to assist in grade braking and all this is done usually flawlessly for many hundreds of thousands of miles , so IMHO don't speak of what you do not have the info on , know the answers to the questions before you ask them.This is an interesting topic and changing technology will change the answers dailey.

Aplication ,is the question , a electric fan installed and shrouded correctly will out perform a mech. fan, increase HP and cool quietly and effeciently, the large truck MFG are heading toward electric fans and the only real concern is the Mech fans aid in grade braking because they do take about 25 HP + and this will slow a semi down. The cooling system has to be Stacked correctly ( refer Oheat threads) and I know people with 1000+ HP pro touring cars with electric fans and no problem in traffic or on the track, yes they are not being raced like a NASCAR but are being stressed far beyond normal perameters. The Duramax trucks that are overheating have a problem beyond the fan, if the cooling system ,shrouding ,and ALL the other problems are corrected a pair of 3300 CFM fans will cool one easily , likley less cfm would work. There are large ( semi and larger) diesels running and working with electric now and you will see many more in the near future , another advantage is controll , ALL big trucks now controll the mech. fan electrically thru sensors that read AC head pressure /coolant/trans / and more ,they turn on the fan with a Jake brake to assist in grade braking and all this is done usually flawlessly for many hundreds of thousands of miles , so IMHO don't speak of what you do not have the info on , know the answers to the questions before you ask them.This is an interesting topic and changing technology will change the answers dailey.

:exactly: mike