I Was Wondering If Anyone Had Tried To Run Off Road Diesel Or Heating Oil In An Lmm Or Lml. Does It Plug The Dpf? Any Other Issues That May Occur?

Only if the diesel has less than 15 (or is it 5?) ppm sulfur.

Just don't get caught, a real hefty fine. Buddy of mine got caught and it was a quite expensive fine. Don't remember how much but he was not a happy camper.

If its the real, high sulfur red #2 then it will murder the dpf. Get rid of the dpf and it will be better for your engine.

what about JP8? I know all of the military trucks can run diesel or JP8, kind of like the flex fuel cars can run E85 or regular gas

what about JP8? I know all of the military trucks can run diesel or JP8, kind of like the flex fuel cars can run E85 or regular gas

Generally the answer is 'no' with any of the common rail diesels. Not enough lubricity for the HPP.

I don't Know about JP8 ,but Off road you should have No Problems ,i have read the only difference is the red Dye they Put in it so they can tell your Not paying the On Road tax's... But if you can do it I would :~)

In Canada we have "clear" over-the-road diesel at all the pumps, farmers can run "red" or purple diesel as most people call it. We have the same thing for gasoline. And in all instances the red/purple version is just dye and is the same fuel.

Off road is the same as on road, just dyed red. Run as much as you like, its no different! Throw a little two-cycle in it.

If its the real, high sulfur red #2 then it will murder the dpf. Get rid of the dpf and it will be better for your engine.

I don't believe you can buy any diesel in the states that isn't ULSD anymore, non-taxable fuel included. When Low sulphur diesel first came to pumps at your local filling station the farm fuel was still the good ol' stuff, but unfortunatley it got fazed out pretty quick. I ran alot of farm fuel in my trucks in years past, until a friend of mine got stopped by DPS and had his tank dipped. They nailed him and he was left with a $3000 dollar fine if I remember correctly. Not really worth saving a few bucks a tank!

As a farmer we can buy clear or red fuel delivered to the farm. We can even get clear non taxed and keep up with the paperwork of how much went into each vehicle. This is to much trouble so everyone just has 2 tanks, one with clear one with red. The red die is very strong. If you were to run out and put one tank of red fuel in the pickup then run the next 20 with clear it will still show up if they check you. So all fuel is delivered as clear and a die pack is dropped in the tank. The ONLY reason it is red is to keep up with the tax.

Off road is the same as on road, just dyed red. Run as much as you like, its no different! Throw a little two-cycle in it.


X2

Answers the Off road question pretty well but how about on road low sulfur. Rather than the ultra low. Have been still getting it delivered to the shop for the older dump trucks (Unless they did change it and never renamed it on the ticket)

I Was Wondering If Anyone Had Tried To Run Off Road Diesel Or Heating Oil In An Lmm Or Lml. Does It Plug The Dpf? Any Other Issues That May Occur?

The dyed diesel should be the same as the taxed, non-dyed fuel (ULSD). I would not run heating oil (this can be reclaimed material). As mentioned earlier, the fines for running dyed fuel can be quite steep...can run in the $10s of thousands.

Gents they are not going to "brew" a special batch for off road diesel or LSD instead of ULSD. That is now two refineries and arguable twice the cost or certainly much more expesive then just one plant. It would screw up the whole supply chain including delivery. It is the same with red dye in it.

x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00

It is all ULSD, let it be!

Gents they are not going to "brew" a special batch for off road diesel or LSD instead of ULSD. That is now two refineries and arguable twice the cost or certainly much more expesive then just one plant. It would screw up the whole supply chain including delivery. It is the same with red dye in it.

x1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00

It is all ULSD, let it be!

No. It's not all the same. Some states still allow Low Sulphur Diesel to be used off road (Nevada, for example) which has as much as 500 PPM sulphur. Coolbreeze assumes that no refinery is going to brew two batches, but he's not considering the market for refined "trans-mix".

Trans mix is a by-product of the pipeline terminal system we have in the United States. If you see tankers lined up at a refinery you might assume that's where all the fuel comes from, but it's not. The majority of the nations fuel is distributed from the refineries to remote terminals via pipeline. Do you think there is one pipe for gas and one for diesel? No, there is not. One product simply pushes another through the pipe. As the end of one "batch" arrives at the terminal, a valve is turned and a few hundred gallons of mixed product is put in a seperate tank until the next product is flowing uncontaminated. That "waste" is held for a tanker that takes it to a "re-refinery" where it can be reconstituted into it's respective products. To describe the process in simple terms, the gasoline is boiled out of the diesel. It's done in a closed-loop system and the gas molecules that were boiled out of the diesel reform in a gasoline tank, and the diesel is now free of the gas. The gasoline has lost some of it's octane in the process, so it's mixed with premium until the octane comes up to 97. Tankers pick it up and take it to your corner gas station. The diesel has picked up some sulphur. Technically it can be cracked, but it's more profitable to just sell it into a market where 500 PPM diesel is legal for use off road. So if you think you can pull a fast one on Uncle Sam and put some of that red diesel in your truck, you just might be getting some of that DPF plugging fuel.
Having said that, I'm not convinced that a little sulphur is going to kill it. Many of my desert racing friends have taken their DPF equipped trucks into Mexico and filled up on Mexican diesel, which has not switched to ULSD.

The diesel pumps in WI and the fuel that gets delivered to our farm is still 500+ppm. Sulfur helps with lubricity. As they decreased the sulfur content it decreased the lubricity that was in the fuel. I know the LB7 and LLY motors run a lot better on the 500+ppm fuel vs the ULSD. Mileage is also better. You can't run anything but ULSD in the LML cause it will mess up the injectors. The dyed fuel here is about 30 cents cheaper per gallon, but you have to drive a lot in order to save enough money to make the risk of a fine worth it.

The diesel pumps in WI and the fuel that gets delivered to our farm is still 500+ppm. Sulfur helps with lubricity. As they decreased the sulfur content it decreased the lubricity that was in the fuel. I know the LB7 and LLY motors run a lot better on the 500+ppm fuel vs the ULSD. Mileage is also better. You can't run anything but ULSD in the LML cause it will mess up the injectors. The dyed fuel here is about 30 cents cheaper per gallon, but you have to drive a lot in order to save enough money to make the risk of a fine worth it.

Only 30 cents? What a rip-off. I think the WI state tax on diesel is 30 cents. That means that the Federal 24.4 cents is going in the retailers pocket. Much better to just burn clear on the farm and take your tax refund quarterly.

As many of you already know, I have EXTENSIVE experience researching the effects of higher sulfur fuels on the emissions system of our trucks. I initially carried out that research in 2007 because many RVers wanted to take their LMMs to Mexico, where the sulfur content was, and for the most part still is, up to 500ppm.

Notwithstanding the probability that ALL diesel in the USA and Canada is now ulsd (because it can't be legally sold any more) I still carried out research on the LML for the reason that RVers would still want to take 2011 and later models into Mexico.

The emissions system does have an extra component, the SCR, which carries out selective catalytic reduction of the NOX using urea. There is still a DOC and a DPF.

After MONTHS of research beginning in April of this year, including discussions with a recently retired engineer at GM, and manufacturers of SCR technology, plus PAYING FOR research documents on the subject of sulfur poisoning of SCR based systems, I reached the conclusion that the 2011 SCR based system can be expected to be slightly LESS SENSITIVE to sulfur than the original DOC/DPF system used on the LMMs. This conclusion was confirmed, sometimes reluctantly, by manufacturer's and/or their representative associations.

The bottom line then, is that you can assume that the 2011s will tolerate higher sulfur fuels, provided that you do not use them continuously for more than 40,000 miles. After 40,000 miles of continuous use, as with the 2007 models, testing indicates that deterioration in the performance of the DPF becomes permanent. As long as the use of higher sulfur fuels is intermittent, such as travelling into Mexico for a few months over the winter and doing maybe 5,000 miles, the DPF recovers completely once it is put back on ulsd.

If you want more information, search the LMM forums for my posts and links to research documentation.

There is NO EVIDENCE to support the claims of some posters that the DPF will be trashed by the use of higher sulfur fuel. Since I began studying this topic in 2007 I have yet to find a single case of emissions system failure due to the use of higher sulfur fuels. If you have a proven case to share with us, please do.

As many of you already know, I have EXTENSIVE experience researching the effects of higher sulfur fuels on the emissions system of our trucks. I initially carried out that research in 2007 because many RVers wanted to take their LMMs to Mexico, where the sulfur content was, and for the most part still is, up to 500ppm.

Notwithstanding the probability that ALL diesel in the USA and Canada is now ulsd (because it can't be legally sold any more) I still carried out research on the LML for the reason that RVers would still want to take 2011 and later models into Mexico.

The emissions system does have an extra component, the SCR, which carries out selective catalytic reduction of the NOX using urea. There is still a DOC and a DPF.

After MONTHS of research beginning in April of this year, including discussions with a recently retired engineer at GM, and manufacturers of SCR technology, plus PAYING FOR research documents on the subject of sulfur poisoning of SCR based systems, I reached the conclusion that the 2011 SCR based system can be expected to be slightly LESS SENSITIVE to sulfur than the original DOC/DPF system used on the LMMs. This conclusion was confirmed, sometimes reluctantly, by manufacturer's and/or their representative associations.

The bottom line then, is that you can assume that the 2011s will tolerate higher sulfur fuels, provided that you do not use them continuously for more than 40,000 miles. After 40,000 miles of continuous use, as with the 2007 models, testing indicates that deterioration in the performance of the DPF becomes permanent. As long as the use of higher sulfur fuels is intermittent, such as travelling into Mexico for a few months over the winter and doing maybe 5,000 miles, the DPF recovers completely once it is put back on ulsd.

If you want more information, search the LMM forums for my posts and links to research documentation.

There is NO EVIDENCE to support the claims of some posters that the DPF will be trashed by the use of higher sulfur fuel. Since I began studying this topic in 2007 I have yet to find a single case of emissions system failure due to the use of higher sulfur fuels. If you have a proven case to share with us, please do.

That's good to know. We've been taking trucks into Mexico with crossed fingers. Now we can breath easier about the fuel. Can you give us some good news about the violence down there?

Ibrocun, you might have noticed that it is "normal" for the LMMs to emit clouds of bluish white smoke during regenerations while on higher sulfur fuel - a bit scary the first time it happens in Mexico, but only due to the burning off of sulfur compounds. I don't have any first hand reports on the LMLs in Mexico yet, but they might exhibit the same symptoms.

Sadly, I can't give good news about the security situation in Mexico. The Canadian Govt has just issued a travel advisory recommending that Canadians do NOT drive across the border because of random roadblocks manned by criminals dressed as police or military. After 8 years of going to Mexico for the winter we are going to Florida this year and will monitor what appears to be a deteriorating situation. But this topic should really be discussed in www.rv.net at the Mexico forum.

It's not getting any better becareful I am sure everyone heard about falcon lake I was out there this weekend of course people are saying the wife killed him

Moved to Maintenance & Fluids.