I'm just wondering what kind of power these machines acutually put to the ground stock.

I've never seen a dyno sheet, but what I hear is they are about a 20% drivetrain loss. That would be about 612 ft-lb and 318 hp at the wheels.

If someone has a dyno sheet, I'd love to see it!

Well, looks like someone finally did. They couldn't figure out how to lock the torque converter :rolleyes: so they only dynoed the higher RPMs.

Oh well, still gives you an idea of the powerband.
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/09/rocky-mountain-power-test-2011-gmc-sierra-denali-3500hd-and-2011-ford-f-450-king-ranch.html
It came out with 700 ft-lb and 348 HP at the wheels. The rest of the article is an interesting read as well.

If anyone in the Northern Il., Milwaukee area wants to - Let me know. I'd like to see one on Hucks superflow.

Nick

I'm just wondering what kind of power these machines acutually put to the ground stock.

Take the difference in rated power between the LB7 (300) and LML (400 MOL) and add to 240 should get you really close.


I've never seen a dyno sheet, but what I hear is they are about a 20% drivetrain loss. That would be about 612 ft-lb and 318 hp at the wheels.

If someone has a dyno sheet, I'd love to see it!

The 20% factor is a meaningless statistic. Parasitic loses do not increase in a linear fashion. Think about it. Why would the drivetrain consume 60HP from a 300HP engine and 80 HP from a 400HP and 100HP from a 500HP engine? These people feeding you inflated HP numbers passed off as flywheel gains are simply wrong. IF the power is increased at the flywheel you should expect to see the lion's share (and then some) get to the wheels...

I need to get ours on the dyno to see what it does but Larry hasn't driven it since we got back from Kansas. Lets just say that he was less than impressed with it's pulling power while towing my 5900lb truck on our little open car trailer. He has been driving his LLy everyday, lol.

Take the difference in rated power between the LB7 (300) and LML (400 MOL) and add to 240 should get you really close.




The 20% factor is a meaningless statistic. Parasitic loses do not increase in a linear fashion. Think about it. Why would the drivetrain consume 60HP from a 300HP engine and 80 HP from a 400HP and 100HP from a 500HP engine? These people feeding you inflated HP numbers passed off as flywheel gains are simply wrong. IF the power is increased at the flywheel you should expect to see the lion's share (and then some) get to the wheels...
Its 15-20% on 1hp-up Im pretty sure thats just how it works. Atleast thats what Ive always been told.

I need to get ours on the dyno to see what it does but Larry hasn't driven it since we got back from Kansas. Lets just say that he was less than impressed with it's pulling power while towing my 5900lb truck on our little open car trailer. He has been driving his LLy everyday, lol.
What mods does the LLY have on it?I'v only towed one time with the new truck but I thought it felt about like my LLY with Edge on level 2.I will say the more I drive it,the less I feel it could match my LLY with Edge on level 2,when unloaded,especially from 0-30 mph and over 80 mph.

Its 15-20% on 1hp-up Im pretty sure thats just how it works. Atleast thats what Ive always been told.

My best suggestion is to forget what you've been told and re-read my post. Not trying to be an ass here, it's just that there is a lot of misconception here and I thought that I had spelled it out pretty well. Parasitic losses to not go up just because you add more power. The 20% rule is a myth.

Take the difference in rated power between the LB7 (300) and LML (400 MOL) and add to 240 should get you really close.

The 20% factor is a meaningless statistic. Parasitic loses do not increase in a linear fashion. Think about it. Why would the drivetrain consume 60HP from a 300HP engine and 80 HP from a 400HP and 100HP from a 500HP engine? These people feeding you inflated HP numbers passed off as flywheel gains are simply wrong. IF the power is increased at the flywheel you should expect to see the lion's share (and then some) get to the wheels...

Well put John. Maybe I can explain it a different way.

The drivetrain loss is more of a fixed loss = a fixed hp number. ie: stock 300hp truck, 240hp to the rear wheels, drivetrain loss is 60hp, right?
Okay, so if I put in a bigger turbo, injectors, computer boxes, propane etc we can probably all agree I've at least doubled the hp of my motor (probably more) but for arguments sake lets call it a 600hp truck. The 20% factor would now be 120hp loss due to drivetrain.
What? The drivetrain now requires twice the HP to turn it just because I souped up my motor? Obviously that isn't the case.

Does that make more sense?

Really the only way to make the "15-20%" rule work is to first run the engine on a stand dynomometer, then put it in the truck and measure RWHP with the same parameters, then you'll actually see the true parasitic loss by the drivetrain.

My best suggestion is to forget what you've been told and re-read my post. Not trying to be an ass here, it's just that there is a lot of misconception here and I thought that I had spelled it out pretty well. Parasitic losses to not go up just because you add more power. The 20% rule is a myth.I'm glad you brought this up. I've always wondered how the loss went up with HP and just assumed the people claiming 20% across the board just new what they were talking about. The only way I could see the loss going up with HP would be if you were turning more rpms, and this increase would be minimal.

Ok has anyone actually ran one???? I bet they're pretty stout.

I thought I read in Diesel Power mag that the LML was putting about 360 or more HP down the the wheels. I could be wrong but I know I read it somewhere.

I'm glad you brought this up. I've always wondered how the loss went up with HP and just assumed the people claiming 20% across the board just new what they were talking about. The only way I could see the loss going up with HP would be if you were turning more rpms, and this increase would be minimal.

When you look at stock RWHP numbers you will see that they follow right with GM's claimed Engine HP as the Dmax has progressed. If GM can get it to the ground why can't the aftermarket? The answer is: Marketing

Used to be you bought a LB7 juice at 90HP and made 100RWHP peak to peak.
Nowadays you'll find nowhere near this kind of result. It's not Edge's fault, they just had to follow suit because everybody else started making outrageous claims and tehy didn't want to be undersold.

I still rate conservatively in that my tunes are rated 5-10 HP lower than what I see on the dyno peak to peak (not max gain) and rear wheel numbers. This is why my 70HP tunes run with or beat 110HP rated tunes. I also do it with less smoke and EGT.

I think 20% is close on stock vehicles. More power requires more robust parts to handle the power. Stuff an Allison behind a stock 4 cylinder Honda you may have more then a 20% difference. Then again you may have 600 HP Dmax and require a heavier, stronger drivetrain. Either way if you are going to advertise a HP gain, you should just use a dyno

I just ran my LML on the Dyno at Westech this morning and it put down 355 hp and 655 tq.. The truck is totaly stock.

Wow! Now thats impressive!

Damn, awesome numbers. I wonder what kind of potential the LML will have with just EFI compared to the LBZ/LMM, ie, different turbo/injectors/tranny upgrades from the factory.

Man that's good! Makes me want one...

I just ran my LML on the Dyno at Westech this morning and it put down 355 hp and 655 tq.. The truck is totaly stock.

:cool:
That's music to my ears :D I'd love to see this in the LML section...

I just ran my LML on the Dyno at Westech this morning and it put down 355 hp and 655 tq.. The truck is totaly stock.

Great numbers! Makes me confident that when the aftermarket cracks the computer 400 hp at the wheels and maybe mid-700s tq should be very possible with just minor mods. I'm thinking I'll end up doing DEF/DPF delete if/when possible, maybe an intake, and obviously the tune to support them and that's about it. I'd be very happy w/ 400 RWHP and 800 RWTQ, but maybe I'm dreaming on the torque number?

-TJ

:cool:
That's music to my ears :D I'd love to see this in the LML section...

Done. :D

I just ordered a 11 pickup and have been hoping it ran as good as my 08 since. I get 18-19 mpg on trips not in town and have not found a load that slowed it down on any hills yet. Dam thing is a animal. I don't think I will be adding any performance mods to the new one anytime soon. Little worried about all the new stuff having a issue and not being covered if I go messing around.

...Little worried about all the new stuff having a issue and not being covered if I go messing around.

x2. I think I'll be staying stock on the powertrain for a while just to make sure I get all the bugs worked out and see how GM responds to modifications. At least they have plenty of power to begin with, and there's plenty to spend on suspension/wheels/tires/stereo anyway. ;)

-TJ

Give the Dmax 10 years and they'll put down 1000HP/1500Ft-lbs and get 30MPG from the factory

Give the Dmax 10 years and they'll put down 1000HP/1500Ft-lbs and get 30MPG from the factory

I seriously doubt that:rolleyes: 400hp is more then enough power to get alot of people in trouble, at 1000hp these trucks would be more then a handfull on the street...

I seriously doubt that:rolleyes: 400hp is more then enough power to get alot of people in trouble, at 1000hp these trucks would be more then a handfull on the street...

It was a joke. Just saying that everyear the competition keeps em coming back with more and more juice!

this was in the LML engine only forums a while back...dyno print out attached.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=404239