the parts that were changed under the hood of the 06? Of course this is pertaining to the "overheating" condition of the LLY. Could some one not take two Vin#'s from a similiar style build and see what the parts difference is, then print it out and analyze the ones associated with the cooling system or control there of? I would imagine it would also involve a re-program as well, if possible?

Seems this would shed light on what is going on. You know that GM has already analyzed this data and dealt with it, why ignore it?

I talked with an attorney. There are several ways to aproach this with GM. Ultimatley they will choose the one that is the lesser cost. To expedite this forward quickly, one can make the upgrades (if possible) to get the truck fixed, then sue to recoup cost. I do not want to go into detail here, but many may choose this route.

the parts that were changed under the hood of the 06? Of course this is pertaining to the "overheating" condition of the LLY. Could some one not take two Vin#'s from a similiar style build and see what the parts difference is, then print it out and analyze the ones associated with the cooling system or control there of? I would imagine it would also involve a re-program as well, if possible?

Seems this would shed light on what is going on. You know that GM has already analyzed this data and dealt with it, why ignore it?

I talked with an attorney. There are several ways to aproach this with GM. Ultimatley they will choose the one that is the lesser cost. To expedite this forward quickly, one can make the upgrades (if possible) to get the truck fixed, then sue to recoup cost. I do not want to go into detail here, but many may choose this route.

I would guess that the research hasn't been undertaken because the differences are non-trivial. A retrofit to the new configuration would be substantial. And you know GM is going to band aid whatever fix they recommend to the least costly fix they can, and probably then to only overheaters without mods..

But it's certainly worth doing. And since it's a hot button of yours, it might be something you'd be willing to take on. That's how this group has been working...

Ed

I am sure it is a safe bet that they have known for a while, more than likely last year, and the fix is in for 06.

There won't be a fix for the rest, too expensive.

.

I'd bet there is a lot of part # changes from the same parts just y to y changes.

Some parts we change #s every month because of engineering changes/updates.

I'd bet there is a lot of part # changes from the same parts just y to y changes.

Some parts we change #s every month because of engineering changes/updates.

LOL, an extremely good point, Tim. Engineers like to change things.

Ed

There are people here who have direct access to this info that it would not seem to be much of bother, I'm not one of them. It would not take much for many of these sharper techs to discern what "truly" changed and needs to be changed. I'm hearing a figure of $5K to do the retrofit, possibly. I would pay that and sue GM tomorrow...where do I line up. I will lose that when I trade it in a month on a soon to be decided brand.

Maybe some slick dealer could put together a tow package for our heavy duty trucks? Then I could swing in to Mikes and have my tranny and my engine modded for towing.

LOL, an extremely good point, Tim. Engineers like to change things.

Ed

Engineers do not necessarily like to change things - this is mostly done via the bean counters to save a buck here and there....people should not always blame the designers or engineers for the problems, mostly the bean counters avoid the good but not cheapest solutions from the engineers and overthrow their ideas to save money.

Engineers do not necessarily like to change things - this is mostly done via the bean counters to save a buck here and there....people should not always blame the designers or engineers for the problems, mostly the bean counters avoid the good but not cheapest solutions from the engineers and overthrow their ideas to save money.

:exactly:

It was ALWAYS the bean counters that forced us to create janky control loops in the plants, rather than go with the BEST they would draw a spending line and say "make it work for this much".

.

:exactly:

It was ALWAYS the bean counters that forced us to create janky control loops in the plants, rather than go with the BEST they would draw a spending line and say "make it work for this much".

.

and here is where the demise of such fine products as the under hood light, side body molding that stops at the end of the cab, glove box lights, floor lights, etc. and many more than i cant think of right now, met their demise.:rant:

Frickin bean counters, you would think that once a good product is put on a vehicle, the molds are made, how much could it cost from here on out to put them on??

sorry about the rant.

Scott out

shields up:cool:

Dude you hit that one dead on. I have noticed all the little details missing. Wifey ALWAYS asks why the pass side visor mirror isn't lighted, and why there isn't one AT ALL on the drivers side.

Even cheapie cars we have owned have dual lighted visor mirrors......

.

Engineers do not necessarily like to change things - this is mostly done via the bean counters to save a buck here and there....people should not always blame the designers or engineers for the problems, mostly the bean counters avoid the good but not cheapest solutions from the engineers and overthrow their ideas to save money.

OK, let me say it a little differently. Engineers like to design things. Sometimes it's evolution, sometimes field complaints, sometimes cost improvement, sometimes product improvement. If it weren't for continuous improvement in all of these areas (Continuous Improvement is Continuous Change) then there would be a demand for a LOT fewer engineers to make the changes.

Bean counters don't know enough to drive change. But they do know when the business is losing money, and when that happens, either the business changes or it stops altogether. And all of those changes are implemented by engineers - process engineers, cost engineers, industrial engineers, design engineers.

I spent 25 years in a business that processed over 25,000 engineering changes a year. Many of them were small and incremental. Some weren't. But you have to document progress so you know what you're doing. So if engineers don't like change, they sure spend a lot of time doing it. Oh, and for what it's worth, it pays the truck payment.

Ed
BSME '64

Scott, you left off the side flaps and the seals around the radiator stack top and bottom. It was probably 4 cents cheaper to do without them. Wonder what the retrofit complaint will be for overheating.

Ed

The old adage "Its either about sex or money" holds true with just about everything. In this case GM gets both: they take our money and screw us at the same time! lol JJ

Common guys, don't single out GM. All big business is doing it.

OK, let me say it a little differently. Engineers like to design things. Sometimes it's evolution, sometimes field complaints, sometimes cost improvement, sometimes product improvement. If it weren't for continuous improvement in all of these areas (Continuous Improvement is Continuous Change) then there would be a demand for a LOT fewer engineers to make the changes.

Bean counters don't know enough to drive change. But they do know when the business is losing money, and when that happens, either the business changes or it stops altogether. And all of those changes are implemented by engineers - process engineers, cost engineers, industrial engineers, design engineers.

I spent 25 years in a business that processed over 25,000 engineering changes a year. Many of them were small and incremental. Some weren't. But you have to document progress so you know what you're doing. So if engineers don't like change, they sure spend a lot of time doing it. Oh, and for what it's worth, it pays the truck payment.

Ed
BSME '64

Well said Ed. Like it or not, if they can't make a profit, things have got to be cut. Unfortunately it is not the Union labor expenses that can be trimmed. Therefore, we as consumers, are the ones that suffer.

the problem is that we keep paying more for the products and keep getting less. So to get a product that costs soo much more with less amenaties than you are used to is just wrong. I guess it keep folks in business getting replacement parts for the ones that (not only GM, your right RDL) were left off.