I posted this in the LLY area but maybe it should be posted here. I have a 04.5 dually 4by4 crew cab that I use to pull a fs3000 weekend warrior. I keep getting real high EGT's when pulling. How are you guys running your programs and keeping the EGT's down.





BOYD

I can't keep it cool. I run the Edge on 1 or 0 and still hit 1300+ on the hills. My LB7 stayed much cooler. I'm running no Cat and have the EGR blocked off. The first load i hauled with the truck I still had the Cat on and turned the exhaust pipe purple from the downpipe all the way to the muffler. I didn't have the pyro in yet but I am guessing I probably hit 1600 on the long grades.

That makes me mad. I have a in law who drives a new dodge with the cummins with the edge at top setting. He is able to fly up the hills doing 70-75mph with out a problem. I pull about the same weight and can't get above 55-60mph mainly becouse my EGT's get to hot.

Boyd

This is your same buddy who has his pyrometer post-turbo? You do know that the turbo will cool the EGT's 200-400 degrees?

no, this is a different inlaw. My bro inlaw who drives cross country in tractor trailers is the one who was talking about post turbo. My other bro in law has the dodge but he doesn't have a egt gauge. We have warned him about EGT 's but he doesn't listen. He drives that dodge pretty hard. I have heard that the cummins don't have EGT problems like we do.

Boyd

You wouldn't have an EGT problem either if you didn't have a guage ;) If the truck will run that hot stock I say it is nothing to worry about. Stop worrying about it and drive it. :)

I am suffering from the high EGT issue as well. These hot ambient temps really send the EGTs up. When towing I can reach 1300 Deg. even with the Edge and Propane turned off.

I am installing a Super diesel Water injection system with an 8 gallon water reservoir. I want to see the difference injecting water only, (No methanol) will make. Water is free and easy to get. If water alone won't get the EGTs low enough I will start by adding a little -20 washer fluid. Maybe one gallon per 8 gallon tank.

I have heard you can reduce EGTs as much as 300 Deg. with one of these systems at a 50/50 water meth mix. I think if I could get a 150 reduction with water only it would be all I need.

that sounds interesting. How much does one of those kits cost?

I am suffering from the high EGT issue as well. These hot ambient temps really send the EGTs up. When towing I can reach 1300 Deg. even with the Edge and Propane turned off.

I am installing a Super diesel Water injection system with an 8 gallon water reservoir. I want to see the difference injecting water only, (No methanol) will make. Water is free and easy to get. If water alone won't get the EGTs low enough I will start by adding a little -20 washer fluid. Maybe one gallon per 8 gallon tank.

I have heard you can reduce EGTs as much as 300 Deg. with one of these systems at a 50/50 water meth mix. I think if I could get a 150 reduction with water only it would be all I need.

LLY DMAX: Let us know how it goes with the water only setup... and where do you plan to mount that 8 gallon tank? In the truck bed, under the truck somewhere, or is there room somewhere under the hood? Pictures would be great. I have a 32ft 5th wheel, and experienced high EGTs on vacation this year... thinking seriously about Super Diesels injection system.

I wanted to thoroughly test a stock truck. I finished a tow through the rockies at about 17K GCVW and I saw as high as 1500°F - totally stock. It was not uncommon to see 1300°F for over a minute. Way hotter than I expected but this is with absolutley no mods so it should be operating within designed parameters and serve as a bench mark when it comes time to introduce some modifications.

LLY DMAX: Let us know how it goes with the water only setup... and where do you plan to mount that 8 gallon tank? In the truck bed, under the truck somewhere, or is there room somewhere under the hood? Pictures would be great. I have a 32ft 5th wheel, and experienced high EGTs on vacation this year... thinking seriously about Super Diesels injection system.

Our company makes a propane tank mounting solution for the Powershot propane system. We install 4, 5 gallon propane bottles in a lockable diamond plate truck box. The top of the box is just lower than the hight as the bed rails of the truck. The powershot and all custom hardware is mounted inside.

Instead of having 4 propane bottles, the box will have 2 bottles and the 8 gallon water reservoir inside. This will still allow for plenty of miles between propane bottle changes. I am thinking about also mounting the pump in there as well. This way it will still all be hidden.

On my truck I am using the "Trippin" Attitude mount with the 2 switches.
I currently use one of those switches for the propane on/off.
I will use the other for the Water injection.

What is to hot? I have never seen it in print. Only someone guessing at what they feel comfortable with. The cooler the better but what is to hot?

I have seen 1500 + on mine pulling a long grade in CA deserts. It still humms along like everything is OK and I run it hard. So what is to hot???

I honestly don't believe the computer will let it overheat. I think it will start shutting the engine down to protect it. This is my thought no facts to back it up.

Tom Cobb

I wouldn't worry about EGTs if your truck is stock, But if you have any kind of power adder I would worry.
The trucks PCM won't defuel to compensate for a chip, ntirous, or propane. That is up to us to watch if we are going to add the extra fuel.

I have also not seen anything that says "Do not operate the engine above #### EGT". However from what I have heard, 1500 Deg. is way too high for any kind of longevity. Especially if it stays there for any length of time.
In stock mode my truck won't go over about 1300 deg., Even when towing heavy.
I have heard 1350 deg. is about the max you ever want to keep it at.
I'm sure open to all the input I can get on this subject though...

mine is stock and when towing up steep grades it will easily hit 1500.

I agree..This ain't Kewl!!!!! I have the edge and I can't even pull 6000 lbs. on setting 1. And in the Stock setting I still hit 1450...thats when I start backing off.

I pulled my CATS and have stock exhaust besides the Kitty Delete'r

PS

My truck before this one was a 03 Cummins with the Six Gun...and never..I mean NEVER did I see anything close to 1350

IMO before everyone with an LLY starts freaking out about stock trucks with high EGT's, some real data needs to be had on the disign parameters of the LLY moter. Who is to say what's too hot on the LLY? It would be nice to see some data from GM. How do we know that those motors weren't disigned to run at 1500*? Heresay on this site or others?

Sorry I chimed in late but have a ? for all of you about EGT's... When I was stock, I put my gages in and went camping, pulling my 26 foot trailer and atv's in the bed of the truck, well I hit a step incline and put my foot down to the floor, and claimed the hill at about 60 - 65 by the time I hit the top (short climb about 3-3.5 miles long from about 10 -15 mph ) was still gaining speed. I kept an eye on the egts, and hit 1400 -1450 tops. So am I wrong to use that as a base line for my truck? because now that I have the edge I figure that if I keep it below 1500 max I'll be ok, is this wrong????
:help:

That seems to be the million dollar question. I find it interesting that all the over the road tractors (big diesels) all have the egt probe post turbo. The engines on those trucks are alot more money to fix and it's how those guys provide for their family's. I want to khow why theirs are post turbo and ours need to be pre-turbo.


Boyd

We've got Million dollar Diesel gen sets at work (EMD 20-645), and we have EGT probes about as pre-turbo as you can get.

Each cylinder has one as well as several in exhaust manifold and a few post turbo.

I think you will find that not all OTR tractors have post turbo EGT's. That would be a pretty bold statement as I know a few Owner/Operators running pre and post turbo on their rigs. It all depends on who put them in and what they were pushing at the time. Also, in the engine manufacturer says warranty void if you mount an EGT pre-turbo, where would you put it on your $125,000 tractor with a 500,000 mile warranty?

I guess the important question is - when will the turbo melt? I think the case is aluminum. Not sure what the melting point of aluminum is but I imagine its not much higher than 1500 degrees. Soak the turbo with enough heat over a period of time and you will get damage. The post turbo egt's will always be lower so I'm not sure why anyone would install the pyro post turbo. I would think you would want it pre turbo so you would be able to tell how high the temps would be hitting the turbo.

Just because a truck is stock doesn't mean you have nothing to worry about. On a hot day on a long grade at high altitude towing a load teh egts can get pretty high even on a stock truck. The stock programming does not monitor egt's - there is no pyro on a stock truck - so if egt's get too high it is not going to back off.

Wonder if a probe broke off and went through the turbo could cause a turbo failure.Maybe some manufactures think that and do not put the probe pre-turbo!

LLY DMax,

Have you discussed running straight h20 with SuperDiesel. I could have sworn I read a post from him in the Power and Performance forum advising to stay with the water/meth mix. Best to do a search or PM him, he knows his stuff. Good luck. Eventually WI will be on my truck. Later. JJ

LLY DMax,

Have you discussed running straight h20 with SuperDiesel. I could have sworn I read a post from him in the Power and Performance forum advising to stay with the water/meth mix. Best to do a search or PM him, he knows his stuff. Good luck. Eventually WI will be on my truck. Later. JJ

I did, He said I will get at least 100 Deg. reduction with water only.
With -20 Deg washer fluid non diluted I will get about 225 Deg. Reduction.
With -30 Deg washer fluid non diluted I will get about 300 Deg. Reduction.

Water only may be enough for my needs. I will try that first. If I need more I will dilute the water with -20 washer fluid until the EGTs won't go over 1350.

P.S. I ordered the 8 gallon tank, So it will be a Big Cocktail I will be mixing up.:ro)

I guess the important question is - when will the turbo melt? I think the case is aluminum. Not sure what the melting point of aluminum is but I imagine its not much higher than 1500 degrees. Soak the turbo with enough heat over a period of time and you will get damage. The post turbo egt's will always be lower so I'm not sure why anyone would install the pyro post turbo. I would think you would want it pre turbo so you would be able to tell how high the temps would be hitting the turbo.

Just because a truck is stock doesn't mean you have nothing to worry about. On a hot day on a long grade at high altitude towing a load teh egts can get pretty high even on a stock truck. The stock programming does not monitor egt's - there is no pyro on a stock truck - so if egt's get too high it is not going to back off.

What you say is true. A stock truck does not monitor egts. That being said, presumably if you just go but a truck and haul a load within the OEM specs there should be no reason to monitor egt's or there would have been a gauge in the 1st place or at a minimum a built in defuel for the ecm. In stock form, the engine should be able to manage itself to prevent self destruction so I disagree with the statement that a stock truck will melt down.

want to reduce your EGT 100 degrees for 50 cents? and you don't have to buy/fill any tanks for the rest of your life. The same 50 cents will also bring down your tanny temps 10-20 deg minimum, provide somewhat better economy, and raise your thermal towing capacity about 4000 lbs +/- .

Oh did I mention, only 50 cents? Colder AC as well.

Just ask rickDlance or JJ.

we need to dyno that mod JJ

want to reduce your EGT 100 degrees for 50 cents? and you don't have to buy/fill any tanks for the rest of your life. The same 50 cents will also bring down your tanny temps 10-20 deg minimum, provide somewhat better economy, and raise your thermal towing capacity about 4000 lbs +/- .

Oh did I mention, only 50 cents? Colder AC as well.

Just ask rickDlance or JJ.

we need to dyno that mod JJ

WHAT!?! Let the cat out of the bag! I like those kind of solutions!

search "stack sealing"

but be prepared to spend some time

Better yet search for JJ full frontal seal.

Better yet search for JJ full frontal seal.

Ok guys, it's either in the "Overheat Solutions" thread (686 posts) or "Over heating" thread (2374 posts).... as of this point in time. Can you guys have some mercy and share which thread it's in; better yet... provide a link to the specific page in the thread? Or, perhaps what day this revelation was expressed? Anything to help avoid spending HOURS AND HOURS wading through those threads? Thanks, Paul.

PaulRahoi,

I received your PM, thought I would post this here so others can find it as well. Suffice to say a lot of progress has been made on the overheating LLY's. What killerbee is talking about is sealing all the openings around the stack in order to force more air through the stack. His budget is a bit low, he likely forgot about the cold air intake and 2" OEM dam extension.

Rick and I used tin foil since it could stand up to the high CAC temps. We also secured the A/C condensor deflector (aka POS flap) to the inside of the bumper versus allowing it to hang down. If you read the last 7-8 pages on the overheating thread you will see Rick has had some incredible results after doing this. Rick keeps referring to it as the "JJ thermal stack seal", others have called it a ghetto job. ):h

This is by no means a permanent method of sealing up the stack. We're in the process of finding the right products to use. 50 cents may be a bit low, but I would suspect we're talking well under $100 to get everything right(cool air intake mod; oem dam extension; and sealant). I haven't been on the forum today so there may be more updates. More to come for sure.

JJ :)

I will be authoring a single post thread on the whole evolution. I will come back here and link it in the next dew days. in the meantime, enjoy reading

JJ/Killerbee/Rick: Thanks for the info, and the research you've been doing. Some of the readers (maybe just me) are rather "green" when it comes to some of the finer details of the diesel engine, esp terminology. For example, what is the "stack"? Is that the air intake? In a nutshell, it sounds like incoming air used to cool (something) was being leached out through holes/openings, and that by sealing them there is an increase in cooling (i.e. like holes in air conditioning ducts). Dumb question: Why wasn't it sealed from the factory? Could their be some PURPOSE in NOT sealing it from the factory? Could something need to be cooled on/outside the "stack"...?

I'm assuming that what you did with the AC condenser deflector (flap) is adjust it so that it's redirecting airflow upwards into the engine where it's needed? Question: could this increase drag, and thus require more power (and heat) to maintain the same speed while towing? Probably not... but just asking...

Thanks for your patience...
Paul.

Just posting to subscribe...interested in the information to follow...

Bob

EMSi

LOL. Chevy is taking things out like lighted vanity mirrors and homelink garage door openers to save a buck. Do you think they are going to put and egt gauge in? Just because there is not gauge that means its o.k. to ignore egt's?

From your signature you have a stock truck except for gauges. Wait for a 100 degree day, hook up a 12,000 pound trailer, drive up a really looooong steep grade at high altitude and go no slower than 65 mph.

Watch your EGT gauge and let me know how high it gets. If you think EGT's that high are no problem because the truck should have been designed to handle it, repeat this test on a regular basis and let me know how long your truck lasts.

I'm not an engineer but I would bet that our trucks are designed to handle the average operating environment 100% of the time with no problems. For more extreme conditions it can handle tehm but is not designed to do so for extended periods. As you start to push the envelope you push the reliability. As you get more and more extreme, yes you might get away with it a few times, but you certainly are not going to get away with pushing it that far too many times without a problem coming up.

Forget about EGT's for a minute. How about coolant temps. Just take a look at some of the overheating threads. Do you think these trucks should overheat??? They have a water temp gauge. If you have a truck that is being driven within its limits and the water termp started skyrocketing I'm pretty sure you would back off. What would happen if you didn't? Do you think that would be bad for the engine? Would you just ignore the coolant temp gauge and continue driving because you were driving within the allowable limits?

The stock engine should not overheat but it has been demonstrated that in many cases it will while still operating within spec. Why would you take a chance on EGT's just because a penny pinching bean counter did not put in an EGT gauge.

I believe the turbo housing along with the heads and other components in our engines are made of aluminum. Aluminum has a melting point of 1220 degrees. I am sure the components of our truck that have aluminum in them are alloys so they probably have a higher melting point than that of pure aluminum but I would still be worried at temps above 1400 degrees. You might get away with for a while but eventually it will catch up with you.

There is an interesting sticky in the "6.5L Diesel Engine" forum titles "Explanation of EGT's".

OK guys, it took a little searching, but I found it. It has officially been named the " JJ Full Frontal Seal" , by me of course. ( my wife thinks it sounds cool! ) You can use black duct tape and plumbers putty to help also. I used that expanding foam on the sides, but don't think it was a good idea. JJ will hate me for posting this, but it helped get us all going!

http://www.msnusers.com/JJsDumaxGhettoJob/shoebox.msnw

The dealer won't shake hands with him anymore, hehe.

I didn't mean to imply that a truck running 20 miles a day between the house and the office wouldn't last longer than a truck that pulled 12,000 lbs through the mountains - it should. BTW I did your test in July through the Rockies here and I saw 1500°F peak temp - only I was only pulling 9000 lbs at about 60 mph. My point is because my truck is stock, I had no fear of a melt down or a catastrophic failure due to high egt's becuase I was operating it within the paramaters it was designed for. If the truck was capable of attaining dangerous exhaust temperatures in its stock form, then the manufacturer will put in gauges or fail safes to deal with this. The people with gauges are probably less than 2% of the owners. So that means the other 98% of the people are running around not monitoring egt's. Work and engine harder it will wear out faster but it shouldn't fail catastrophically while operating without modification for the average expected life of the power plant. As far as overheating - can't disagree, but that's apples and oranges becuase that is a step change from an LB7 to an LLY power plant. If I had mitigating circumstances that dictated an unreliable or suspect product I certainly would be more cautious. My LB7 has not shown any issues in this regard. Injectors.............. well I guess we'll wait and see on that one.

OK guys, it took a little searching, but I found it. It has officially been named the " JJ Full Frontal Seal" , by me of course. ( my wife thinks it sounds cool! ) You can use black duct tape and plumbers putty to help also. I used that expanding foam on the sides, but don't think it was a good idea. JJ will hate me for posting this, but it helped get us all going!

http://www.msnusers.com/JJsDumaxGhettoJob/shoebox.msnw

Thanks Rick! --Paul.