My buddy has 88,000 on his lbz and about 500 miles ago he had a check engine light on and it turned out to be #1 glowplug was bad ,so he took it to the dealer and they replaced all 8 and I guess reflashed it. So yesterday he changed his oil ( rotella dino ) like he has always used since new and he saw small amounts of metal in the oil so he showed me and the metal is both steel and allum. The steel sticks to the magnet and the alum. just sits there. Could pieces of the glowplug be what this is or is it not ? And maybe something else. He has never seen metal in his oil changes before.

I have heard of the tips breaking off the end of the glow plugs. Maybe the dealer just didn't do or say anything about it.

That is what I am thinking. I think he should show them the oil and get it documented before the 100,000 is up. And then maybe if the bearings start to go bad or something else in the motor gives up atleast he will have something to go on.

I don't understand how the metal got from the combustion side of things (the glow plug goes in the cylinder area) to the lubricant side of things (the oil returns via the heads and such). There should be no direct path from the combustion side to the oil side.

Okay - we all know that soot and fuel make it from one side to the other, but they are very small (sub-micron) in size. Particles large enough to come out with the oil drain, and be picked up by a magnet and seen by the naked eye, are WAY larger than a few microns. Any tip that broke off in the cylilnder would have been badly slammed around in the cylinder, before it got pushed out the exhaust value, OR, would have been chewed up so terribly that cylinder damage would have occured. Right?

If I recall, the first gen engines had the injectors inside the valve covers, but then got moved ouside on the 2nd gen engines to keep fuel from leaking into the oil. Are the glowplugs inside the valve cover as well? If so, perhaps the sloppy replacement of injectors might have caused this to happen? Perhaps some grunting and breaking of threads, or crossed threads upon removal/installation, could have have sent slivers of metal washing down with the return oil from the head?

Help me out here; am I missing something?

Nothing beats having a oil sample lab analyzed (Caterpillar calls it SOS). Not only will the lab tell you what metal(s) are present, but a qualified lab can narrow down where it came from, such as bearing material, cooler leaching, camshshaft components, not to mention other afflications, such as dirt entry, oil dilution, antifreeze presence, etc. It's a valuable tool to help determine the condition of an engine.

Caterpillar is $13 with a two day or less turn around.

I don't understand how the metal got from the combustion side of things (the glow plug goes in the cylinder area) to the lubricant side of things (the oil returns via the heads and such). There should be no direct path from the combustion side to the oil side.

I see what your saying.

Might consider doing 2 more short term oil changes to see if the metal is coming off the components fast. It's very obvious something is shaving or grinding takes alot of extra looking to try and decide what is giving off fragments. Just a suggestion also what's the oil filter look like? Put another low micron filter on to open after change of oils.

Dnewton3,
the glowplugs are in the block, it is an 06 lbz. I got the oil filter from him today and cut it open and found very small pieces of copper and also small , very small pieces of metal that stuck to my very clean magnet. The bottom of the filter had a very weird piece that looked like a piece of a thread, maybe from one of the glowplugs ??? I don't know, but I told him to run it with the new oil and filter in it for about 100 miles or so and then we are going to change it and see if anything else shows up.The motor has no noise or anything else , it runs like a bear like it always has.Time will tell.

Colt49,
that is what we came up with , doing a short oil change and seeing what comes out.

You guys have gotten sound advice from DNewton and heymccall. I suggest you follow it. No glowplug is getting into the oil pan\filter\system w/o doing some other significant damage first.

The original LBZ glowplug TSB was to re-program them so they would fall apart and ruin your engine. If you look back far enough you can find evidence of that on this forum. Save those pieces, get an oil analysis and perhaps even use that evidence to write a letter to GM. I doubt they do anything before the engine blows up but at least you created a paper trail.

Has this truck ever blown a head gasket? Just the copper and aluminum plus iron fragments is alarming like antifreeze has got into the internals and they frag off as it runs. I hope it's going to just run and hold up the point to take out of this is to check the oil when it's changed to try and see any coming issues. Good luck.....

Coolbreeze, you are correct about keeping the material we found in the oil and in the filter and I have it in a plastic bag , just in case this turns into a mess.
Colt49 , this truck he has owned since new and he is very up to date on his oil changes at 5000 miles like clock work.He has never had any problems with head gaskets or really anything else until the glowplug deal and now this , the metal in the oil.

Given what's been checked and still to be done if the frags drop alot and seem to be a trace type elements in UOA he should just drive it and he does have warranty I believe you said so going and talking of only known work it must have been related. These are such good engines and as all things go sometimes it happens that failures occur.

Well , he showed the service writer the thead piece and the fragments that came out of the oil. He told the guy he just wanted to have it documented and the guy said that it would not matter because they didn't change the oil there.You know what happened next , my buddy higg. told the guy to go get *****#d. And if anything happens to his motor he is going to raise holy hell. So in a couple of days we are going to change the oil and see what comes out.

You guys have gotten sound advice from DNewton and heymccall. I suggest you follow it. No glowplug is getting into the oil pan\filter\system w/o doing some other significant damage first.


This i agree with. You can keep the pieces but it is going to be his word against GM. This is why my trucks go to the dealer for all oil changes and most of the work that gets done on them.

If you guys think pieces of the glow plug are going from the cylinder and into the oil pan then you friend has bigger issues to worry about, the only way it can happen is a hole in the piston and you would certainly know about that by now. Who knows what the pieces are, they could be fragments from engine casting and building that are just now coming loose in the oil.

Sounds like to me you are in love with your dealership, one hell of alot of people like to change there oil, to check to see what is coming out of there trucks. And the chance that this crap just came out of anywhere just after he had his truck worked on is , well you know BULL CRAP when after he has been changing his oil since the truck was new. I just don't think so...

Maybe we should start oil DNA to prove the oil and metal pieces came from his truck?

Dnewton3,
the glowplugs are in the block, it is an 06 lbz. I got the oil filter from him today and cut it open and found very small pieces of copper and also small , very small pieces of metal that stuck to my very clean magnet. The bottom of the filter had a very weird piece that looked like a piece of a thread, maybe from one of the glowplugs ??? I don't know, but I told him to run it with the new oil and filter in it for about 100 miles or so and then we are going to change it and see if anything else shows up.The motor has no noise or anything else , it runs like a bear like it always has.Time will tell.

The glowplugs are in the block?

That makes ZERO sense.

For a glow plug to assist in the starting process, it has to heat the air/fuel mix; which means it must be in the cylinder or intake. For you to say it's in the block, but still be able to aid in the starting, would mean that there is a hole going from the outside of the block right through the cylinder wall. I DON'T THINK SO!

Perhaps you meant that the glowplug is in the head?

Regardless, if you are getting parts of the glowplug from the combustion side, diretly into the lube side, then you have a BIG hole somewhere.

I suspect that the glowplug is inside the valve cover, and when it was removed and replaced, some metal bits got into the return oil pathway.

To have metal large enough to show up on a magnet and in the oil filter to the naked eye is alarming, to say the least.

I miss spoke when I said they were in the block, have you ever miss spoke about anything, I see that you own a 06 truck , I would think if you are so concerned you would know where they are on the SAME YEAR TRUCK! Well then again I guess you don't make mistakes.Ball busters, got to love them.

Didn't mean to tick you off, but I was trying to get a fair understanding. And yes, I, too, make mistakes. But at the same time, when you're asking a very specific question, and looking for very specific answers, one does need to be careful in the statements one makes, or it causes misunderstanding (such as what we have here). I'm not calling you out, but don't get your panties in a wad and call me a "ball buster" when you're the one asking for help for a very detailed topic.

But none of that changes what I've said up to thsi point.

How did the metals get from the combustion side to the oil side?

About the only way I can think of is that the GP threads got munched upon removal/installation and down into the pan via the return oil at the head. That would explain how metal got into the pan.

If that's the case, and you have the type and volume of metal you indicate, I think a problem could be potentially detrimental, and I'd continue to investigate. If you have the time/ability, I'd pull the cover yourself and look it over. That much metal in the crankcase is NOT a good thing, and indicates other issues may result.

But some of your statements don't make any sense to me at all ..

I'm a bit unclear just how a "piece of thread" from the GP got into the oil filter. To be identified as a "piece of thread" I would think it would have to be large enough to identify the thread root and/or peak, perhaps have a very small bit of curve to it, etc. That's a BIG chunk of metal when you consider that the oil first goes through the pump, and then into the filter. Anything that would be large enough to be identified as a "piece of thread" should have never got into the oil filter in the first place, because the pump has a pickup screen on it. And if it did get past the pickup screen, I would think that the pump would have possibly siezed, because anything that is large enough to be a "piece of thread" is very large compared to the clearances of the pump.

I'm not saying your lying, but the more I read your statements, the less they make sense.

Just how did you cut open the oil filter? Did you use a metal saw? It is certainly possible that the debris from the cutting of the filter is being mistaken for engine debris. To PROPERLY cut open a filter, one must use a tool designed for just that prupose (very similar to a compression wheel pipe cutter). These type tools displace the metal by seperating it, rather than tearing it apart. I'm not saying that's the whole truth here, but it certainly might be a cause for mis-directed analysis.

Also, I don't understand how you can say that you've discovered "very small pieces of copper". Once Cu gets very small, it's literally impossible to tell it's color range shift from anything else. So how did you determine that it's Cu? If the particles are large enough to determine the color of Cu, then these are not what I'd call "small", but rather alarmingly large compared to what is typically found in an engine lube system.

Panties, Oh no, I only wear them in the dark of night ! Yea I should not have called you that, but that is in the past.Well changed his oil today and and cut his filter open with a exhaust cutter, basic large pipe cutter in other words and found NOTHING and I mean NOTHING except clean black oil. I can't explain it. It's been about 200 miles and the only thing that I can see is alittle and I say a tiny bit of metal when you hold the dip stick to the sunlight and the motor runs perfect. I really don't know how to explain it ?
I understand what you are saying about metal not being able to get to the bottom of the filter and something that large is basically impossible with out being eaton up by the stroke of the engine. I don't know what to say ? Time will tell but what I saw before was not a dream. He still has it in a plastic bag with some of the other metal pieces that should not be there but were.Do you have any ideas how something this odd could have happened and also the metal that is on the stick in the sunlight ?

Well, this is good news!

The metal on the dipstick can often be coloidal; so small that you can't hardly measure it, but the quantity is sufficient to cause reflection in bright light. To be safe, I think I'd even do another oil/filter change soon, just to be on the safe side and see if the "clean" condition is repeated. If so, I'd call it good and not look back.

Also, you guys made a good choice using the exhaust cutter as it is an excellent tool for cutting the filter open; it's what we use. Just give it, and the filter, a good wipe-down before the cut, so that any outside contaminants are removed so they don't skew your view.

Yes, we will give it another change just to make sure. What do you think about after the next change sending out a sample to be checked out and get a report ?
While I got your ear , what do you recomend to put in my power steering.It's time for a flush and it's an 04 lb7. I know this should be in maint. But like I said I got your ear.

I would think a UOA after the second flush would give some good insight. Post up the results in the M&F when they return. Take the UOA after you get some miles on the fluid; best approach is around 6k miles to be as close to the "universal average".

As for the steering, I like any fluid (prefer syntethic) that is made for the GM steering system. Stay away from ATFs for this hydroboost application. ATFs can work well in power steering systems designed for ATF (Ford and such), but I tend to stay with the specified fluids. I like the synthetic options because of some of the high heat issues when towing. I have personally experienced "growling" when at very low speeds when the fluid is hot. Synthetics help quiet this issue (along with an aftermarket cooler).

Thanks Dnewton3,
It willbe awhile before he gets to 6000 but when he does I will put up the results. I think your idea about an aftermarket cooler is going to be my next mod , while I am flushing the system.