This could happen to you:*
GM voids warranty for chip that owners did not even know was installed

This has been an absolute nightmare and I want to let everyone know what could happen if you buy a used GM vehicle:

In May of 2008 we bought a slightly used 2007 Chevy 2500 diesel truck with just over 12,000 km’s on it. The dealership told us that it had full factory warranty, which is 5 years or 160,000 km’s.

In May 2010, our truck broke down with 70,000 km’s on it and we took it to a GM dealership. The first thing they did was what they call an “Engine Calibration Snapshot”. When the results came back, they stated this truck has had a chip or program in it. Then a warranty block was put on our truck voiding all warranty. We did not install a chip in it, nor is there currently a chip in our truck.

After several phone calls to GM they stated the problem was between us and the dealership we bought it from.*The dealership said they had no way of finding out that a chip was ever installed and passed it back to me dealing with GM.*I asked GM if there was any type of time or km stamp on when this chip was installed they said no.*They can't tell me when or who installed the chip, but yet they refuse to honour my warranty because there was one installed at some point.

Again making call after call asking dealerships if when they take a vehicle on trade in do you do an Engine Calibration Snapshot and every dealer told me NO they do not. I can not believe they can sell a vehicle claiming it has warranty without knowing if GM will honour the warranty or not.

To make things worse GM only implemented this rule about 10 months ago. I bought the truck 27 month ago being 17 months before this rule even existed. So even if our dealership did a complete inspection they would not have done an Engine Calibration Snapshot. This is not a rule in which dealerships are required to do today.

This is not fair for GM to put warranty blocks on vehicles based on an engine calibration snapshot that for all we know they may have screwed up. GM can't (or won't) tell me when the code was changed. They won't say when the chip was supposedly installed! They want to make a this a rule and yet their own dealers don’t check when trading in or selling a used vehicle. How many others out there think they have warranty and actually don’t? Everyone who has bought a vehicle in the past 2 years should have this Engine Calibration Snapshot done and if it has been altered they should demand their money back before they need warranty coverage they don't have. If you are going to buy a used vehicle you must DEMAND TO HAVE AN ENGINE CALIBRATION SNAPSHOT DONE BEFORE YOU PURCHASE A USED CHEVY VEHICLE. If it doesn't match what the factory has, YOU HAVE NO WARRANTY COVERAGE, regardless of what your dealer tells you. Then again what is stopping them from erasing these so called codes just to further make a profit...

If you or someone you know is about to purchase a used car, please forward this to them and spread the word.


At this time our truck is requiring a new engine at 13,000 dollars. How is anyone expected to make 1000/month payments and then need to pay that kind of money to fix it when is was said to have warranty, and no way to prove it did not. Up until this has happened I would have sworn by GM but this has made me not believe in them one bit.

Most here are aware that this could potentially happen. I don't know what to tell you. I think your only options are to either take it to a someone who will put a used engine in it for probably 1/4 the cost or take GM to court.

Wow, that sucks. Sorry to hear about your disaster.

This is not true on the Engine Calibration Snapshot , you can tell alot from this as far as dates, miles and time.

Id say lawyer up. It dont cost much to get a lawyer to look into this. Also I'd take it somewhere eles if you do put a engine in it out of your own pocket. Plus I just bought a used LMM motor with a burnt top end for $1900. I'm going to use the short block for my build and probably sell the heads. But Id try to go after GM first.

Check out Car-Part.com (http://car-part.com/index.htm)

Keep working with them they might replace it same thing happened to a guy on the trailblazer ss forum and they came through
http://www.tbssowners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47276

Sounds like you have a problem between you and the dealer that you bought the truck from, not between you and GM, or between you and the dealer you took the truck to for repair. Part of a dealer taking a used vehicle and reselling it should be checking the engine calibration, but unfortunately it hardly ever happens. On the flip side, here in the U.S., your issue falls under the legal "buyer beware" and likely wouldn't win in court.

The only thing I wonder is that you didn't say what was wrong when it broke down, or what the dealer told you. GM's official stance is, and has always been, since the introduction of the Duramax: if a chip has been used to increase engine output, then any warranty claims that could be a result of the increased power may be denied from that point on.

My advice from similar experiences is to write a letter to the manager of the dealership you bought it from, and call him every day until the two of you come to a workable deal. It might be that the two of you split the repair cost, and they agree to honor the powertrain warranty at their dealership only. That wouldn't be unreasonable in this situation. Unfortunately, you also misunderstood the dealer when they said "full factory" warranty - which is only a powertrain warranty covering the engine and transmission.

I wouldn't split the cost with them. The dealership and GM are 100% at fault here. Even IF your truck had a chip prior to 12,000Km's, the likelihood of that causing a failure 60,000K's later is remote. They are simply trying to screw you.
Be persistent and keep insisting that they fix it for you at no charge. Most likely, when you start talking about calling your lawyer, the local news station, FoxNews, CNN, etc, they will come around. Negative press scares them a lot more than anything else.....

take em to court there is no way the chip cause a problem 60 k later not possible

How is anyone expected to make 1000/month payments and then need to pay that kind of money to fix it when is was said to have warranty,

$1K a month payment for a used vehicle?

Two things:
1) It sounds to me like the dealer mis-represented the vehicle when they sold it to you. If it was a GM-certified used vehicle sold by a GM dealership then the dealership is responsible for getting the condition of the vehicle to meet GM warranty requirements.

2) Warranty claims can only legally be denied if the warrantor can show that the modification is what caused the failure. Example: changing tire size or gear ratio has no effect on the pistons or rods... but turning up the power certainly would affect them.

And yes I believe they CAN tell when the tune was modified, at least in terms of mileage & hours.

man sorry to hear that

So what happened to the motor? Pistons?

Drive it through the dealership's front door and tell them the throttle stuck.............

Drive it through the dealership's front door and tell them the throttle stuck.............

After he pays $13,000 for a motor or what?

After he pays $13,000 for a motor or what?

Nice.

I'd sure be putting up a fight.

Any news on this??

this thread is a great example of the fact that dealers don't give a rats ass about their customers. They only care about their bottom line

remember, used car salesmen have a bad rap for a reason

If the dealership sold it to you as still under factory warranty and you have the documentation to prove that then the problem is really the dealers and if you can't get satisfaction, I'd spend a little coin on retaining and atty and have that atty contact dealership directly. I'm no cheerleader for GM, but it is not there issue. Any booger eatin' moron of a dealership can plug the ECM into their computer and tell if the truck has been "chipped". They know that chipped vehicles (particularly DMax's) have been a sore spot with GM for a LONGGGGGGGGGGGGGG time when it comes to warranty work. True, the send in a photo of the ECM diagnostics is a relatively new mandate, but GM has been refusing work on chipped Dmax's since the Dmax was introduced. If the dealer was ignorant enough to offer a factory warranty intact without doing some due diligence then it is their problem. GM doesn't have to pony up for that dumb a$$ dealers practices, but neither should you have to pony up for their ignorance. Hopefully you have documentation that explicity says the 5yr/160 000 km warranty is valid with your purchase contract. you bought it from them, not GM. A slick atty can probably get their attention real fast if you have the proper documenation.

I also agree with others, I think the printout should at a minimum be able to show mileage/hours of the "suspect" activity. This really doesn't matter much in my opinion, other than further proving that you did not install the chip and it was there prior to buying it from the dumba$$ stealer that failed to do their own due diligence.

Hammer on em and lawyer up is my advice.

Other idea is to notify your lien holder that you purchased a truck with a valid warranty and now the dealership is refusing to honor that warranty because of "pre-existing" conditions on the vehicle that were "misrepresented" at the time of the sale. You had nothing to do with these "pre existing conditions" and now their (the lien holder's) investment (your truck) is a worthless pile of sheet metal, rubber and fluids. Sounds like you took out a pretty hefty loan on this truck based on your post and if what you are telling us is true, then any lien holder is going to likely at least start asking some questions of the dealership when their investment is being f'd with, or even worse "MISREPRESENTED AT THE TIME OF SALE"

After he pays $13,000 for a motor or what?

No, it was in reference to a guy that drove his Toyota through the dealership because of the problems they were having with those cars. He drove it right through the front glass, got out of the car, and told them that his throttle stuck, sorry:eek:

Back when I purchased my 05, I was worried about this exact thing happening. What I did was, I had the dealership write into my contract that there was not chip or tuner installed of this truck. I also had the diesel tech, whom I know, hook up the ruck and check it just in case.

I hope you can get the B.S. worked out.

Pretty simple. If the dealer won't give you proof when the chip was installed, retain a lawyer and take him to court to get it. Or get another dealer to check it.

If it was before you bought it, then sue to honor the warrenty and pay legal fee's.

If it was after you bought it, pony on up.

when doing calibration check the tech inputs customer vin into gmvis website. this provides tech with list of factory available programming numbers and calibrations. the tech prints this off and then uses tech2 to go to a particular screen on the tech 2. this screen lists only the calibrations and numbers for the truck( no dates times or mileage available). the tech compares these numbers to the printout. if any do not match the truck has an aftermarket programmer in it. the tech also on newer models has to go into the transmission data and take a picture of the max engine torque to the trans. anything abnormally over the factory spec for that model year shows as a programmer. for example 750lb/ft of torque on a truck rated at 660 ft/lbs of torque. gm has the ealer send this in on every drivetrain related repair. if a programmer shows up the dealer doesn't get paid for the repair.
this also aplies to gas powered vehicles now too. i don't like doing it but i have to if i want to get paid for the repairs i perform

This is not true on the Engine Calibration Snapshot , you can tell alot from this as far as dates, miles and time.

The ECM can pinpoint dates?

when doing calibration check the tech inputs customer vin into gmvis website. this provides tech with list of factory available programming numbers and calibrations. the tech prints this off and then uses tech2 to go to a particular screen on the tech 2. this screen lists only the calibrations and numbers for the truck( no dates times or mileage available). the tech compares these numbers to the printout. if any do not match the truck has an aftermarket programmer in it. the tech also on newer models has to go into the transmission data and take a picture of the max engine torque to the trans. anything abnormally over the factory spec for that model year shows as a programmer. for example 750lb/ft of torque on a truck rated at 660 ft/lbs of torque. gm has the ealer send this in on every drivetrain related repair. if a programmer shows up the dealer doesn't get paid for the repair.
this also aplies to gas powered vehicles now too. i don't like doing it but i have to if i want to get paid for the repairs i perform

Thats funny cause you can get trucks new from dealerships with a Hypertech installed on the truck..

Is there a solution to this?

Thats funny cause you can get trucks new from dealerships with a Hypertech installed on the truck..

In this case the hypertech tuner and any of the other "upgrades" that a dealer might offer in a conversion or special package are on their backs to warrant. Many dealerships sell trucks with 3-4" lifts on them, larger rims/tires, etc. Those trucks, at least out here, generally go from factory to an aftermarket customizer (i.e. Vanworks is one in Colo) and then to the dealer that ordered the truck and "upgrade pkg". The customizer never buys or "owns" the truck, they are a middle man so to speak. The dealer is then on the hook to honor the warranty for that particular truck with whatever "non-factory upgrades" it may have. This is exactly how it was on my truck (no performance mods, slightly larger rims/tires, nerf bars, rhino liner, tinting, grille insert, etc.)

My advice is if you buy a truck with suspension or drivetrain mods from a dealer, be darn sure that your purchase contract states SPECIFICALLY that the selling dealer is responsible for and will honor the GM warranty terms on the modified items if GM will not. If they won't put that in writing, go buy a truck from someone who will. GM can tell a dealer to get bent on a brand new truck sold with a 3" lift and larger rims/tires if the truck has problems with hubs, bearings, suspension, steering, or any other component that a non-stock suspension could adversely affect. Sure they have to "prove" it, but GM most likely has files full of data that show what non-stock items do to long term serviceability/performance from their engineering dept. If you have the time/money to fight them in court my money is you will still lose.

ANy update from OP?

Any updates? I would think you should turn out okay. For one, I have a hard time believing that their "snapshot" has no kind of date or mileage on it. It's bullshit if it doesn't because they sold you a used truck with a warranty, it should be on them if they didn't check it first before giving a warranty. Then they could know if you are telling the truth or just a guy who put a tuner on it and says "oh, i never put a tuner on it. Must have been the first owner"

if you buy a new truck from the dealer with a programmer in it installed by the dealer then said dealer is agreeing to fix your truck should it fail and not be covered by the gm warranty. most dealers have stopped doing this