It is very interesting how these manufacturers put numbers to the towing capabilities of these trucks.

Ford, Dodge and Chevy all skew the numbers to there liking.

We all know that the these trucks can handle about anything within reason, however, the numbers are crap.

For instance, the towing numbers for a 2011 CCSB 4x4 diesel bumper pull is 13,000 lbs.

When you load a Bobcat T190 with a tip bed trailer, your at max for towing weight. But, the hitch on the truck is only rated at 12,000 lbs.

Then, compare the numbers for the fifth wheel. When GM rates there fifth wheel capacity, they rate a RCLB 2wd dooley for that. It's rated at 21,700 lbs.

But then you look at fifth wheel capacity for a CCSB 4x4, it's only 16,800 lbs.

There again, you load a 5 ton mini-ex, with a 6,000 lbs goose neck trailer, your over weight again.

How are you guys pulling these big fifth wheel campers?

Like I said before, we all know that the trucks can handle the load, why doesn't the manufacturer know this?

How do they rate these numbers?

Thanks!

I think they try to keep the ratings down to a number that does not require a commercial license in most states.

It is very interesting how these manufacturers put numbers to the towing capabilities of these trucks.

Ford, Dodge and Chevy all skew the numbers to there liking.

We all know that the these trucks can handle about anything within reason, however, the numbers are crap.

For instance, the towing numbers for a 2011 CCSB 4x4 diesel bumper pull is 13,000 lbs.

When you load a Bobcat T190 with a tip bed trailer, your at max for towing weight. But, the hitch on the truck is only rated at 12,000 lbs.

Then, compare the numbers for the fifth wheel. When GM rates there fifth wheel capacity, they rate a RCLB 2wd dooley for that. It's rated at 21,700 lbs.

But then you look at fifth wheel capacity for a CCSB 4x4, it's only 16,800 lbs.

There again, you load a 5 ton mini-ex, with a 6,000 lbs goose neck trailer, your over weight again.

How are you guys pulling these big fifth wheel campers?

Like I said before, we all know that the trucks can handle the load, why doesn't the manufacturer know this?

How do they rate these numbers?

Thanks!

Good post. I agree fully. How do they come up with these numbers? And why does a truck that weighs maybe a thousand pounds more lose 5,000 pounds of fifth wheel towing?

You pretty much hit the nail on the head, these trucks will handle what we need to tow. . . . within reason. I am regularly over 25,000 and sometimes up to as much as 30,000 GCVW with my LB7 CCLB, so I am pretty confident the LML's will do quite a bit better.

And why does a truck that weighs maybe a thousand pounds more lose 5,000 pounds of fifth wheel towing?


I've ALWAYS wondered that...

I am not so sure about the CDL.

If you have over 10,000 lbs and your making money, then you need a CDL anyway.

I just wonder what there formula is.

Thanks!

Moved to Towing.

I am not so sure about the CDL.

If you have over 10,000 lbs and your making money, then you need a CDL anyway.

I just wonder what there formula is.

Thanks!
I think I stated that wrong.
I didnt mean a license as in CDL, I was actually refering to the state registration on the truck.

My mistake.

I am not so sure about the CDL.

If you have over 10,000 lbs and your making money, then you need a CDL anyway.

I just wonder what there formula is.

Thanks!

That's not true. 26k is the magic number for every state except California. My dually has a GVWR of 11,400 and I haul a trailer with 14k GVWR for hire then I do not need a CDL because the total GCVWR is 25,400. With the new truck's GVWR of 13k I would need a CDL to haul the same trailer.

Even more confusing is that if you have a Kodiak with 25,950 GVWR and pull a trailer with 9900lb GVWR, that doesn't require a CDL, even though the GCVWR is over 35k.

As has been noted on here before, the actual towing capacity is the GCWR minus the weight of the truck when ready to tow. For a 5th wheel, about 20% of its GW is in the truck bed as pin weight, so that weight is added to the truck's weight and deducted from the trailer's weight.

I beg to differ on the rules for a CDL.

I actually have court papers and tickets to prove it.

10,001 lbs and over, and your making money. you need a CDL.

It all boils down to interstate and intrastate commerce.

Maybe in Georgia the rules may sway, but not in Minnesota.

I'll send you the rule book.

Minnesota actually goes above and beyond the federal regs.

I think also there maybe a little confusion with what type of CDL is needed.

Most guys can get away with a class B because the tow vehicle is under a certain weight and the trailer is over a certain weight.

A class A is when both tow vehicle and trailer are both over a certain weight.

Then you start adding in endorsements for air brakes, and hazardous waste, then you really have a battle.

I beg to differ on the rules for a CDL.

I actually have court papers and tickets to prove it.

10,001 lbs and over, and your making money. you need a CDL.

It all boils down to interstate and intrastate commerce.

Maybe in Georgia the rules may sway, but not in Minnesota.

I'll send you the rule book.

Minnesota actually goes above and beyond the federal regs.

I think also there maybe a little confusion with what type of CDL is needed.

Most guys can get away with a class B because the tow vehicle is under a certain weight and the trailer is over a certain weight.

A class A is when both tow vehicle and trailer are both over a certain weight.

Then you start adding in endorsements for air brakes, and hazardous waste, then you really have a battle.

Well then the judge and officer were ignorant of the law. http://www.dps.state.mn.us/dvs/DriverLicense/DL%20Info/DL%20frame.htm

Straight from the Minnesota state driver services website.

What is a commercial motor vehicle?
State law defines a commercial motor vehicle as a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle:

has a gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
has a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight of more than 10,000 pounds and the combination of vehicles has a combined gross vehicle weight of more than 26,000 pounds;
is a bus (designed to seat 16 passengers or more, including the driver);
is of any size and is used in the transportation of hazardous materials that are required to be placarded under Code of Federal Regulations, title 49, parts 100-185; or
is outwardly equipped and identified as a school busCalifornia is the only state I know of that has the over 10k requirement, not 26k like everyone else. I've been in scales in Kentucky, Iowa, Virginia, Tennessee, Georgia, Florida, Louisiana, and a few more I'm sure and all I had was a regular driver's license with my 25,950 GVWr box truck and the officers never batted eye.

That's not true. 26k is the magic number for every state except California. My dually has a GVWR of 11,400 and I haul a trailer with 14k GVWR for hire then I do not need a CDL because the total GCVWR is 25,400. With the new truck's GVWR of 13k I would need a CDL to haul the same trailer.

Even more confusing is that if you have a Kodiak with 25,950 GVWR and pull a trailer with 9900lb GVWR, that doesn't require a CDL, even though the GCVWR is over 35k.

Here in Nebr., and I am sure it is the same in most states, they(DOT) add the two together to see if they add up to 26k. If they do......CDL. The only exemptions are RV's, and that is another matter....On the same note,do not pass road side- weigh stations, red lites will be in your mirror, my pocket-book experiance (sp)

You boys are missing the big point here.

When money is involved, the restriction goes down to 10,001 lb. Read a little bit more.

Read about interstate and intrastate commerce. This is also where fed medical cards come into play.

Next time maybe I'll hire you guys as lawyers.:rolleyes:

You boys are missing the big point here.

When money is involved, the restriction goes down to 10,001 lb. Read a little bit more.

Read about interstate and intrastate commerce. This is also where fed medical cards come into play.

Next time maybe I'll hire you guys as lawyers.:rolleyes:


I make money with my truck. I have a medical card and logbook and that it what is required when you over 10k and engaged in interstate commerce. Maybe that's where you are confused. Were you pulling a trailer over 10k and the total GVWR was over 26k, like with a F450 or F550?

Even judges and officers are sometimes confused by the law, sorry about your bad luck about not being knowledgable enough to fight it. All it would have taken is for you to print out what is on the state website. Why don't you scan your ticket in and let us look at it so we can see exactly what they wrote you a ticket for.

Why do you have a CDL, log book and medical card?

You stated in the previous post that your under the "magic" number, then why have all the crap associated with a CDL?

The website you showed was the state website. Most states have rules for the interstate commerce. That is, if you operate only in the state you live, then you don't need a medical card and your not making money, you don't need a cdl.

However, most states run off the federal guidelines. The federal guidelines are 10,001 and over, you need a cdl, and Minnesota goes above the fed guidelines.

Come through Minnesota and pass by the scale with no DOT number and no CDL and you'll meet my buddies from the DOT.

FYI, I run a 2007 3500 with a 14,000lb skid trailer. That is nowhere near 26,000 when loaded, yet I still need a CDL, DOT number, Fed Med card, the whole ball of wax.
(BECAUSE THERE IS COMMERCE INVOLVED).

I received those tickets three years ago.

Attempting to get back to the point here... I am also curious at 5th wheel towing weights. 16,000 bumper pull sounds like an extreme limit for a 3/4 ton. I've pulled 8000 lbs bumper and would feel uneasy towing anything more. Now I'm up to face 12,000lb 5th wheel. Is there a similarity in weight distribution in that difference? Can a 3/4 ton even handle 12,000+ lbs in a 5th wheel hitch?

yeah ! check your spec but with your duramax engibne and 3/4 ton truck you shlud be fine to tow between 13500 and 16000 pounds dependeing on your equipment

just dont put to much of a load on your truck but like 10-15 % and youll be fine

Why do you have a CDL, log book and medical card?

I don't have a CDL, reread what I said and quote me where I said that. Everybody over 10k GVWr and using their truck commericially must have a medical card and if you go over 150 miles from home, a log book along with DOT numbers. That is different from having to have a CDL, get it?
You stated in the previous post that your under the "magic" number, then why have all the crap associated with a CDL?

The website you showed was the state website. Most states have rules for the interstate commerce. That is, if you operate only in the state you live, then you don't need a medical card and your not making money, you don't need a cdl. If you are over 10k and using it to make money intrastate then you need a medical card also.

However, most states run off the federal guidelines. The federal guidelines are 10,001 and over, you need a cdl, and Minnesota goes above the fed guidelines. No they aren't. I think you are confusing medical card and logbook with CDL again.

Come through Minnesota and pass by the scale with no DOT number and no CDL and you'll meet my buddies from the DOT. I have DOT numbers and everything else I need. That does not include a CDL.

FYI, I run a 2007 3500 with a 14,000lb skid trailer. That is nowhere near 26,000 when loaded, yet I still need a CDL, DOT number, Fed Med card, the whole ball of wax.
(BECAUSE THERE IS COMMERCE INVOLVED).

I received those tickets three years ago.


Did you look up the regs yourself then or did you just pay it?

10,001 lbs and over, and your making money. you need a CDL.



Sorry JR but you are wrong here and I doubt you have any tickets to prove it. My guess is you don't understand what you relly got a ticket for.

You should have hired me as your lawyer.

BTW what are these MN rules that are over and above the Feds?

What is the GVWR of your truck? If it is over 12k that is why you need a CDL.(12k+ truck and 14k trailer = 26k+)

Attempting to get back to the point here... I am also curious at 5th wheel towing weights. 16,000 bumper pull sounds like an extreme limit for a 3/4 ton. I've pulled 8000 lbs bumper and would feel uneasy towing anything more. Now I'm up to face 12,000lb 5th wheel. Is there a similarity in weight distribution in that difference? Can a 3/4 ton even handle 12,000+ lbs in a 5th wheel hitch?

A 3/4 will be over GVWR with any big 5th wheel. Plan on 20% of the GW as pin weight to be carried by the truck...it'll put the 3/4 over. My 14k 5th wheel has a PW of 2,800, plus the other stuff in the truck, brings my weight in the truck to around 3,500...that's why I drive a dually.

youre right

plus keep in mind with fuel, water and people inside the cab

should try to keep it under 16000 pounds or either shift some weight in the back so you dont break the truck suspension and axles, tires...

I loved my 07 bowtie dually but the 2011 SRWs render the old dually's obsolete...higher payload, bigger brakes, exhaust brake and sway control to go with the brake controller...all adds up to a very safe tow while the 2011 Dually's are rated to 13k GVWR and a 29,200 GCWR...GM really impressed me with the amount of under the skin changes for 2011 not least the beefier drivetrain and frame...for private use GM claim a CDL isn't necessary (I have one, and due to this stay within the posted figs)

I had to switch to a 1.5tonner due to my towing needs but with the 2011 F450 having been lightened up (300lbs less, no more 10 lug etc) I'll likely return to the GMs when the 100k warranty is up in another 12k miles as I'm coming it a hair under 29k combined on our work scales inc my 250lb ass and toolbox...

A good time to be a truck buyer, either for the new ones or the great deals that can now be had on used 1 tons and 3/4 tons:)

-Rob

So you can drive a Commercial vehicle, of any style, without s CDL?

You just need a logbook and a med card?

WOW!

FYI, if you have DOT numbers, then you must have a commercial vehicle right?

Then you are driving a commercial vehicle illegally.

So you can drive a Commercial vehicle, of any style, without s CDL?

Nobody said that or is saying that.

You just need a logbook and a med card?

WOW!

FYI, if you have DOT numbers, then you must have a commercial vehicle right?

If the vehicle requires them. Yes

Then you are driving a commercial vehicle illegally.

That would depend on the GCWR.

Again JR, what is the GVWR of the 3500 you mentioned earlier?