yea i was wondering if anybody knew if efi live will void the warranty on 06 lbz because i have an oil leak and it looks like its comin from the front seal

I would believe that any tuner would void any warranty

not just yes but hell yes it will void your warranty in fact in tuner detected will void your warranty.

X3, use of any tuner will definitly end your powertrain warranty. If you do not believe the failure was due to use of the tuner, you can always flash back the stock tune and hope they don't detect the monkey business. If the failure was not likely due to a tuner, my guess it they wouldn't look for one (ie. a water pump failure). Maybe someone will say to the contrary, but I think it would be unlikely a tuner would cause a front oil seal to leak.

Try to reflash the stock programming to the truck before taking in for service. Should get by just fine as long as the programming is stock depending on the issue needing warrany work.

X3, use of any tuner will definitly end your powertrain warranty. If you do not believe the failure was due to use of the tuner, you can always flash back the stock tune and hope they don't detect the monkey business. If the failure was not likely due to a tuner, my guess it they wouldn't look for one (ie. a water pump failure). Maybe someone will say to the contrary, but I think it would be unlikely a tuner would cause a front oil seal to leak.
:exactly:

If your oil leak was due to a thrown rod and hole in the pan....then I'd say your screwed.;) But just an everyday average oil leak, no they are not supposed to void you warranty due to a non-GM calibration. However, crazier things have happened, and it would be up to you and your lawyers to prove otherwise.:(

ok thanks that helped me a lot

granted every dealer is different but i brought mine in with everything in my sig still on it including the programmer (set to stock) and they replaced my whole front diff.
They did send me a letter stating the next time I bring in my truck it must be in stock form

This is just a suggestion, but why not buy a computer that has the stock tune and hasn't been tampered with, and throw it in just before going in? I guess it depends how much a stock computer would be though. If they ain't TOO much, that would be the best bet. Then you wouldn't have to reflash the computer all the time. I've heard of flashing over and over again can start causing corrupted files, etc. That would be my suggestion, but it's merely a suggestion and a dumb one at that possibly.

This is just a suggestion, but why not buy a computer that has the stock tune and hasn't been tampered with, and throw it in just before going in? I guess it depends how much a stock computer would be though. If they ain't TOO much, that would be the best bet. Then you wouldn't have to reflash the computer all the time. I've heard of flashing over and over again can start causing corrupted files, etc. That would be my suggestion, but it's merely a suggestion and a dumb one at that possibly.

About $400.

About $400.

I was thinking a lot more, so maybe that would be an alternative to re flashing all the time. From what I hear, the stealers can still tell if it has been chipped or not. I may be wrong, but if that is true, maybe the $400 for a stock computer for trips to the stealers would be a safer bet.

Dealers can tell. Period. From the LLY's to Now, the ecm records everytime the ecm was flashed. On the LMM the ECM can be replaced, but the TCM still has a tell tale in the form of the highest torque reading set.

Plain and simple: Be prepared to pay if you want to play...

Dealers can tell. Period. From the LLY's to Now, the ecm records everytime the ecm was flashed. On the LMM the ECM can be replaced, but the TCM still has a tell tale in the form of the highest torque reading set.

Plain and simple: Be prepared to pay if you want to play...

Ahh, gotcha. I figured something else recorded settings as well. Unfortunately a spare ECU won't help then. I've heard that some stealerships don't care as much about tuners. Maybe find one that doesn't care and maybe they will be a little more easy going on issues.

Dealers can tell. Period. From the LLY's to Now, the ecm records everytime the ecm was flashed. On the LMM the ECM can be replaced, but the TCM still has a tell tale in the form of the highest torque reading set.

Plain and simple: Be prepared to pay if you want to play...

No, only the LMM+ have a calibration history and torque reference.

Hard to prove that a tuner caused a front oil seal to leak, I think as long as you go back to stock you should be ok.

No, only the LMM+ have a calibration history and torque reference.


Err. No. The late LLY and LBZ also record the cal history. Looking it up on a dealer level is different and harder to do than it is on the LMM. But it can be done.

The torque reference is the never ending "gift" to the LMM only....

Ahh, gotcha. I figured something else recorded settings as well. Unfortunately a spare ECU won't help then. I've heard that some stealerships don't care as much about tuners. Maybe find one that doesn't care and maybe they will be a little more easy going on issues.


In your case, the spare ECU can help, but it has to be "virgin". No downloads whatsoever.

The torque reading is limited to the LMM's only.

IIRC, at 170,000 kms, your out of warranty anyway. Unless my math is wrong....

Err. No. The late LLY and LBZ also record the cal history. Looking it up on a dealer level is different and harder to do than it is on the LMM. But it can be done.

The torque reference is the never ending "gift" to the LMM only....


Forgive me for not taking your word for it, but you must know something that everyone else does not. Please share. This has been discussed many many times, why is it just now coming to light?

In your case, the spare ECU can help, but it has to be "virgin". No downloads whatsoever.

The torque reading is limited to the LMM's only.

IIRC, at 170,000 kms, your out of warranty anyway. Unless my math is wrong....

That's what I mean. A completely bone stock ECU that's never been touched. It is out of warranty, so this is not related to me. Was just offering my input. Whether or not if any of my ideas work, they are just ideas. I like to try different things, and keep my mind open. Usually helps me fix things :)

Call me crazy and/or stupid...BUT, if a person were to acquire an ecm/computer thingy, from a pickup with...67,932 miles...would it show that that pickup is still within the given powertrain warranty?:confused:
Even better, what if you found on from a pickup that had 23,582 miles...then would you still have full warranty? I guess you would have to be within 3 years though.

Call me crazy and/or stupid...BUT, if a person were to acquire an ecm/computer thingy, from a pickup with...67,932 miles...would it show that that pickup is still within the given powertrain warranty?:confused:
Even better, what if you found on from a pickup that had 23,582 miles...then would you still have full warranty? I guess you would have to be within 3 years though.

Pretty sure that if the mileage is recorded in the ECM it wouldn't be the only place it would be...i'm assuming that GM has thought of something like that and made it a tad bit more difficult than just switching out an ECM for more warranty...plus everytime you take your truck in for servicing your mileage is recorded through the GM database so if you went in for your last time at 98000miles and then come back next time with 50000miles...hmmmm RED FLAG!!!

Forgive me for not taking your word for it, but you must know something that everyone else does not. Please share. This has been discussed many many times, why is it just now coming to light?

You don't have to my word for it...It's in the latest TSBs regarding power up devices from GM. It's also been well known that the Bosch ECMs have always had the capability to do the cal history, but GM hasn't really used it until now. Like I said, it's a harder process to get to the history, but it is there. Popping a piston and flashing back to stock isn't going to work as well as you think.

Do a search on the subject.....

Call me crazy and/or stupid...BUT, if a person were to acquire an ecm/computer thingy, from a pickup with...67,932 miles...would it show that that pickup is still within the given powertrain warranty?:confused:
Even better, what if you found on from a pickup that had 23,582 miles...then would you still have full warranty? I guess you would have to be within 3 years though.

You're not crazy or stupid....The mileage on these trucks are in more computers than just the ECM. IIRC, the cluster and BCM have records of the mileage. If you swap an ECM, as long as the VIN is correct, it will work. The mileage is stored in the cluster. That's why you have to send it out to be programmed if it has to be replaced...

So here's one for ya...why go with a tuner that "flashes the ecm". It's my understanding that the Banks 6 gun pda only piggy backs on the ecm..pull it off and you are back to stock as it never does flash the prom. I guess my Question is then, is that type of programmer susceptible to being noticed eleswhere and still noted.?? Ie; pull it out...will dealer be able to read that it was ever there..other than holes in the dash & egt probe hole blocked with a 1/4" npt plug etc. :D

EFI live most certainly does flash the ECm...how many others do the same I wonder.

Theo

I don't see how they could detect a Banks 6 gun since it is a spoof box and does not flash the ECM. As far as I know all the others flash the ECM, but I may have missed some. If there is a box between the ECM and engine harness it is a spoof, box; if it goes in the OBDII port is a flash programmer and is dectable. However, IMHO if the dealer does not have a reason to suspect a programmer caused a warranty issue, I doubt they will waste their time looking for one, but if you come in with a hole in your piston, they will probably start sniffing around.

You don't have to my word for it...It's in the latest TSBs regarding power up devices from GM. It's also been well known that the Bosch ECMs have always had the capability to do the cal history, but GM hasn't really used it until now. Like I said, it's a harder process to get to the history, but it is there. Popping a piston and flashing back to stock isn't going to work as well as you think.

Do a search on the subject.....

As luck would have if, the TSB was posted by another member today....
http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=3958490&postcount=6

Key points:
Power-Up Kit Detection - All 2007-2009 RPO LMM

For 2007-2009 applications, an Engine Control Module (ECM) algorithm was implemented that records the engine calibration part number and Calibration Verification Number (CVN) for the last 10 flash programming events. The ECM only records the engine calibration part number because it contains the parameters for increasing torque and fueling rates.
2005-2007 LLY and LBZ Instructions for Confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)
17. Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued. If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY CVN's DO NOT match the printout, it is likely that a non-GM certified calibration has been installed. LMM's keep a history. LBZ's and prior, do not. Returning a programmer to the stock setting or flashing a stock tune w/ EFI Live will reset the CVN's to the stock, GM Certified, values.


So here's one for ya...why go with a tuner that "flashes the ecm". It's my understanding that the Banks 6 gun pda only piggy backs on the ecm..pull it off and you are back to stock as it never does flash the prom. I guess my Question is then, is that type of programmer susceptible to being noticed eleswhere and still noted.?? Ie; pull it out...will dealer be able to read that it was ever there..other than holes in the dash & egt probe hole blocked with a 1/4" npt plug etc. :D

EFI live most certainly does flash the ECm...how many others do the same I wonder.

Theo

It's not "all inclusive", but check here: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=357881

Everything listed as "OBDII" is a flash tuner.

Anything listed as "Harness" is what you called a piggy back tuner. They are not detectable whatsoever (other than the physical indicators that you mentioned) on LBZ's & prior. On LMM's they can look at the torque reference on the TCM and the DPF Regen count on the ECM.

The ECM has a history of cals that are flashed. That is what is used to compare the the SPS history for the particular VIN in question. If you had someone with a Tech 2 flash in a GM cal, such as an update, and it's not in GM's file for your truck's VIN, you will have problems.

Reflashing back to stock will leave a footprints on the ECM as well as change some checksums to also cause a problem. Programmers do not "flash" your original tune back into the ECM as cleanly as you think.

I don't see how they could detect a Banks 6 gun since it is a spoof box and does not flash the ECM. As far as I know all the others flash the ECM, but I may have missed some. If there is a box between the ECM and engine harness it is a spoof, box; if it goes in the OBDII port is a flash programmer and is dectable. However, IMHO if the dealer does not have a reason to suspect a programmer caused a warranty issue, I doubt they will waste their time looking for one, but if you come in with a hole in your piston, they will probably start sniffing around.

Exactly....