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Nice pics!
Too bad they don't paint and chome them up all purdy like that for production...


Ox

You almost need sunglasses. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


I bet chrome fuel filters work better than painted filters. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Edited by: DuckDog

If the chrome fuel filters work better, where can I buy one? I am going to call up the GM parts dept & see what part number this optional filter is..................http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Seeing those pictures, and seeing the ones of hoot's engine apart, I have to wonder how hard it would/would have been for them to redesign the injectors so that they could be outside the valve covers.


I understand that the heads are completely different, but is that really true? These pictures look like they made they valve covers fit "around" the injectors. It looks like they could have done the same thing with the LB7 from the pics that I seen of hoot's motor, but I've never really seen one torn apart in person to really understand all that's going on there...


CADman_ks

EGR is as big as the turbo!!! Do like the turnout though.

I think they should have had the LLY on the engine dyno instead of the 5.3 at he NAIAS

Wow, that EGR it a monster compaired to the one on my LB7. The biggest part on mine is the cooler, that one's bigger than the cooler. The Turbo looks bigger too, I'm sure for the variable controls. I can't wait to see how it performs...stock and juiced up! It could go either way..I guess we'll see...

Ox

Perhaps on of you who's done it or knows about it can answer this question.


It looks like the exhaust manifold is slightly different?


I'm wondering because I've been talking to Edge about when they'll have a Juice for the LLY. The location of the EGT probe shown in Hoot's article doesn't look like it will work from what I can see on these pics, is it a different manifold?

turbo looks good and alot easier to remove wounder how the injector harness will feed and in all looks dam cool

Ok if u follow the right exhaust up to a Tee ? where it goes up to the EGR.


Does the turbo get the exhaust from the large egr tube, it's hard to tell in the photos.


If the flange where the line comes from the Tee is both banks and it goes in the egr tube and supplies the turbo from there a spacer could be made and put the probe in the 1/2" spacer.


That way no drilling and easy to move to my next new truck.





What about the oilpan on the right side, is this a marine engine.








Duckdog do u have a top or left rear pic by chance, thanks for the others.Edited by: Dmax Tim

The heads at least need to be recast for the new valve cover sealing surfaces. Also... not sure if emissions/egr mandated some casting/port changes.

The injectors do look different. The angle of the feed line is now point up instead of straight out the valve cover. Looks like that would make for a shorter line and less bends.Edited by: hoot

Dmax Tim, I wouldn't do to much "planning" for installations based upon this display engine. There is a *LOT* of stuff not included in this engine: all the electrical wiring, hoses, heat shields, etc. That nice tee and turbo housing will be buried in additional add-ons and up against the firewall and under the wiper motor! That being said, the exhaust header castings look the same to me, the flat "Hoot Spot" is right there forward of the exit flange on passenger side and the "dent" (for clearing the steering shaft?) is still there on the driver's side constricting the manifold. The turbo downpipe seems to have a bigger ring-flange (4" vs. 3-1/2"?) but is still flattened and "dented" for firewall clearance.

The heads at least need to be recast for the new valve cover sealing surfaces. Also... not sure if emissions/egr mandated some casting/port changes.

The injectors do look different. The angle of the feed line is now point up instead of straight out the valve cover. Looks like that would make for a shorter line and less bends.


I agree with all of that. I guess what I was thinking about was making a valve cover that seals against the existing surface, and then you would have to have the injector seal against that valve cover. In that manner, you could get the injector completely (or mostly) outside of the valve cover, or at least so that you would not have to remove the valve cover in order to change injectors.


They are sealing the injector lines against the current valve cover. Why would it be that hard of a stretch to think that they could not have a slightly different injector design that would allow the injector to seal against the valve cover?


As an engineer, it's always easy to look at something and say "What were they thinking?". However, I don't know all that's invovled in making a change like that.


After seeing the change, I'm convinced that they must have this "outside" injector change in the works when they started building the "hidden" injector design engines. There is a LOT of stuff that's changed on there, WITHOUT the EGR. That also makes me wonder why they didn't just come out with visible injectors to begin with...


CADman_ks

Cadman, I think your understanding of the injector configuration is a bit "simplified". What extends through the valve covers on the LB7 engine is not the injector, it is a connector piece between the high pressure fuel line and the injector. The injector is down in the base of the head between rocker arms and valves. It has not only the solenoid and power wiring attached,but also an angled connection near the base that mates to the fuel return line and the clamp-down arm and bolt (all under the valve cover). The LLY has significant head changes in order to "clear" the injector base, sealing surface, fuel return, hold-down clamp, and solenoid wiring.

Cadman, I think your understanding of the injector configuration is a bit "simplified". What extends through the valve covers on the LB7 engine is not the injector, it is a connector piece between the high pressure fuel line and the injector. ....


Yeah, I'm fully aware that I'm way over simplifying this.


I guess my point is that when I look at the LLY vavle covers, it APPEARS to me that the same type of valve cover could have been designed for the LB7, WITH some different injectors that had seals on them, or whatever it would take. When I saw Hoot's motor apart (before I ever saw the LLY covers), the LLY type covers were exactly what I imagined they would/could look like.


When I look at all of the complexity in the LLY, it really makes me think that they had the LLY design ON THE BOARD before they ever built the first LB7 (WITH all of the external changes that they made to the motor, NOT just the VVT and EGR). That also tells me that they knew then that there was some sort of a problem. Putting the injectors on the outside should have NOTHING to do with emissions, so why wouldn't they have just left them under the covers?


A company like GM does not make a DRASTIC change like that in just a couple of months. It takes them a long time to make a drastic change like that.


CADman_ksEdited by: CADman_ks

I hear that!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif It's a bit puzzling to me too that all that equipment would be "trapped" under the valve cover and exposed to a hot and oily environment (in addition to the obvious "maintainability" issues!)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

I hear that!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif It's a bit puzzling to me too that all that equipment would be "trapped" under the valve cover and exposed to a hot and oily environment (in addition to the obvious "maintainability" issues!)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

The Powerstroke and the Cummins injectors are under the covers, are they not?

...

The Powerstroke and the Cummins injectors are under the covers, are they not?




I don't know the answer to that, BUT if they are, then why would GM move them to the outside? I mean, it must obviously work there, right?


The underlying reason IMHO, is that they've known for QUITE some time that there some sort of injector problem. Otherwise, keep 'em hidden. Obviously, the LB7 cover is MUCH simpler to make than the LLY. And, with GM v. 'customer service' record, I don't think that GM did it so that after we're all out of 100K warranty it will make it EASIER for end users to change injectors. NOT!!!


CADman_ksEdited by: CADman_ks

Sorry, that is all of the photos of the LLY.

If anyone goes to the autoshow. There is a 3500HD SRW 2WD Chevy there. I didn't think about it then, but it might have an LLY. You could ask the Chevy people to open the hood and shoot some photos of the installed engine. There are two LLY display engines. One is on the main floor. The one I photographed is on the upper level above the GM concept cars. There are several display engines up there. There is also a cutaway of a Silverado gas/electric hybrid that will power your house during a power failure. Too bad I didn't buy an extra memory card for the camera.

The Powerstroke and the Cummins injectors are under the covers, are they not?




I don't know, never looked at those. The Ford is a whole other ballgame with their International Truck engine-oil driven hydraulic injectors that I believe are all down in the engine valley on the intake side, but don't I recall people (CaptnMal?) saying that the Dodge Bosch system has "servicable" injectors? I took that to mean that they were up top like the previous generation of Cummins injectors.

Well, this is the best I could do in a short search - still think the Fords are all in the engine valley (under that plate under the turbo). You can see the rail and HP fuel lines on the Cummins, you can also see one of the cavities in the head at the upper right where the injectors live (outside the valve cover):


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