Hey guys,
New to the forum. Been reading on here for a while since I picked up my 08 LMM about a month ago. A lot of great info on here. I have a question, that I'm sure you fella's have the answer too. I've tryed searching, but haven't found an answer.
I'm just wondering if its possible to do the DPF delete, and the EGR block off, and have a GM tech program the ECM with a GM tool, to not see the DPF, or EGR code. I mean in regards to the same way that the aftermarket tool does.
:confuzeld
Thanks,
Adam

Short answer: Not even remotely possible.

Long Answer: The only reason to not use an aftermarket programmer is to keep your drivetrain warrantee. Removing your emmisions equipment is going to void your warrantee anyway, so I don't really see why you are wanting to do it this way.

I guess the question is, what are your goals? Why do you want to remove these systems?

Short answer: Not even remotely possible.

Long Answer: The only reason to not use an aftermarket programmer is to keep your drivetrain warrantee. Removing your emmisions equipment is going to void your warrantee anyway, so I don't really see why you are wanting to do it this way.

I guess the question is, what are your goals? Why do you want to remove these systems?

I asked if a GM tech could program the ecm with a gm tool, to not see the codes. Not your opinion as to how it would affect my warranty. Seeing as how some of the dealer's in my area take the dpf's off on brand new trucks and sell them that way with aftermarket tuners, and honor warranty. The question of warranty is not an issue. I just want to get rid of the system to improve my fuel economy, and free up that restricted power. Without the aid of an aftermarket tuner.
So, again I ask the question. Is it possible for a GM tool to clear these codes?
Thanks,
Adam

I have heard of GM dealers taking of the DPF if you complain about horrible mileage. I imagine there would need to be some programming involved? Or would this not be an issues since without the DPF the system would never need to go into REGEN mode?

I have heard of GM dealers taking of the DPF if you complain about horrible mileage. I imagine there would need to be some programming involved? Or would this not be an issues since without the DPF the system would never need to go into REGEN mode?

What dealer and where? I'll be on the road to see them tomorrow morning :D

What dealer and where? I'll be on the road to see them tomorrow morning :D



Really - What dealer could or would break Federal Law removing emissions equipment.........

:eek:

I have heard of GM dealers taking of the DPF if you complain about horrible mileage. I imagine there would need to be some programming involved? Or would this not be an issues since without the DPF the system would never need to go into REGEN mode?

There would need to be some programming involved. Which is why people use aftermarket tuners to clear the dpf code. I'm going to talk to the service manager at my dealer, and see what he has to say on the subject. Taking the dpf off would basically make the truck the same as the 07 classic without all the emissions junk on it. There is no emissions testing up here in Western Canada yet, so that is not a concern.

Again, just what I hear....its like rumors in high school. It is one of those under the table deals. No dealer would actually come out and say that they take the DPF off, but I am sure there are a few that can't say they haven't

I asked if a GM tech could program the ecm with a gm tool, to not see the codes. Not your opinion as to how it would affect my warranty. Seeing as how some of the dealer's in my area take the dpf's off on brand new trucks and sell them that way with aftermarket tuners, and honor warranty. The question of warranty is not an issue. I just want to get rid of the system to improve my fuel economy, and free up that restricted power. Without the aid of an aftermarket tuner.
So, again I ask the question. Is it possible for a GM tool to clear these codes?
Thanks,
Adam

Adam,

No need to get all puffy chested, I did answer your quesion in the very first sentence, I told you it wouldn't work. The reason it won't work is that the Tech II only reads trouble codes and loads stock GM programming. In order to get rid of the "trouble" lights you have to change the code in order for the ECM to not look at the DPF or go through a regen process. You can only delete the DPF with a programmer.

The reason I asked why you wanted to pull the DPF was that you could litterally write a book about the DPF and all the nitty gritty details about how to remove it and maintain the warrantee. Again the ONLY reason to not use a tuner when you remove it is to keep your warrantee. 99% of all new guys on this site don't understand how GM's warrantee policy works. They have installed a tattle tale in the ECM that will track ANY non stock program loaded into the ECM. Before GM (as in the corporation) will pay the dealership for ANY drivetrain related warranttee work they perform they require a picture of this tattle tale screen with the turcks VIN number pulled up screen. This takes the whole warrantee card out of the dealers hands and puts it in big brothers hands. So no matter how nice your dealer wants to be he can't be without eating the costs himself.

So DPF removal becomes a question of whether the loss of the warrantee becomes worth the increase in mileage and power. Some more facts for you, the regen process uses ~.75 gallons per regen which is ~once every 400 miles. Not that much money really. Also just simply removing the DPF isn't really worth that much power, it gets cleaned out way before it restricts the exhaust enough to matter. The real power comes to retuning the ECM for more power and bring the fuel in quicker at lower RPM's to take some of the lag out of the emmissions friendly tune that GM has in these trucks. A tuner really wakes these trucks up and is a blast to drive around. Just have to factor in the chance of having to pony up for a 4,500$ tranny rebuild or a 10,000$ enigne replacement if you have problems and it's on your dime.

I've got over a 1000 posts trying to help guys out.....I tend to go a little heavy on the tech and light on the opinion.

Warning opinion alert: I think you need to lighten up a little :Warnign opinion alert

If the LMM is basically the same engine as an LBZ, just with more emissions, could you flash the LBZ tune into it? I guess that would still alter the tune and accomplish the same thing that a DPF delete without a power increase would. Just a brain fart... :D

A programmer is definitely needed for DPF removal.

If the LMM is basically the same engine as an LBZ, just with more emissions, could you flash the LBZ tune into it? I guess that would still alter the tune and accomplish the same thing that a DPF delete without a power increase would. Just a brain fart... :D

That right there is a brilliant question, and one I'm suprised I haven't heard before. I would have to assume the LBZ tune without DPF is still a GM tune and maintains a GM approved call ID. Would it set off a red flag with a Tech II screenshot in the event of warranty claim?

Could it have been flashed in as a GM factory tune and therefore maintain warranty? It certainly doesn't violate the letter of the law about aftermarket programmers or tunes. Is this a way to tap dance around warranty requirements and still achieve the objective of deleting the DPF?

Just wondering aloud - could you reflash an LMM ECM with an LBZ tune, or would it be prevented by VIN?

Please don't turn this into an ethical argument about modification vs. warranty responsibility - we've all seen too many threads on the subject. I'm only considering this from a purely hypothetical standpoint.

On the older ECM's, I'm talking in the 80's and early 90's it was possible to use a tune from another configuration in the same ECM. I highly doubt the LMM ecm is anywhere close to the LBZ ecm since it has several new inputs from the DPF and the body control module is completely different on the NBS trucks.

Just a simple comparison of the part numbers will answer you question.

That right there is a brilliant question, and one I'm suprised I haven't heard before. I would have to assume the LBZ tune without DPF is still a GM tune and maintains a GM approved call ID. Would it set off a red flag with a Tech II screenshot in the event of warranty claim?

Could it have been flashed in as a GM factory tune and therefore maintain warranty? It certainly doesn't violate the letter of the law about aftermarket programmers or tunes. Is this a way to tap dance around warranty requirements and still achieve the objective of deleting the DPF?

Just wondering aloud - could you reflash an LMM ECM with an LBZ tune, or would it be prevented by VIN?

Please don't turn this into an ethical argument about modification vs. warranty responsibility - we've all seen too many threads on the subject. I'm only considering this from a purely hypothetical standpoint.
Could always blame a dealer for it and say you didn't know... :naughty:

Adam,

No need to get all puffy chested, I did answer your quesion in the very first sentence, I told you it wouldn't work. The reason it won't work is that the Tech II only reads trouble codes and loads stock GM programming. In order to get rid of the "trouble" lights you have to change the code in order for the ECM to not look at the DPF or go through a regen process. You can only delete the DPF with a programmer.

The reason I asked why you wanted to pull the DPF was that you could litterally write a book about the DPF and all the nitty gritty details about how to remove it and maintain the warrantee. Again the ONLY reason to not use a tuner when you remove it is to keep your warrantee. 99% of all new guys on this site don't understand how GM's warrantee policy works. They have installed a tattle tale in the ECM that will track ANY non stock program loaded into the ECM. Before GM (as in the corporation) will pay the dealership for ANY drivetrain related warranttee work they perform they require a picture of this tattle tale screen with the turcks VIN number pulled up screen. This takes the whole warrantee card out of the dealers hands and puts it in big brothers hands. So no matter how nice your dealer wants to be he can't be without eating the costs himself.

So DPF removal becomes a question of whether the loss of the warrantee becomes worth the increase in mileage and power. Some more facts for you, the regen process uses ~.75 gallons per regen which is ~once every 400 miles. Not that much money really. Also just simply removing the DPF isn't really worth that much power, it gets cleaned out way before it restricts the exhaust enough to matter. The real power comes to retuning the ECM for more power and bring the fuel in quicker at lower RPM's to take some of the lag out of the emmissions friendly tune that GM has in these trucks. A tuner really wakes these trucks up and is a blast to drive around. Just have to factor in the chance of having to pony up for a 4,500$ tranny rebuild or a 10,000$ enigne replacement if you have problems and it's on your dime.

I've got over a 1000 posts trying to help guys out.....I tend to go a little heavy on the tech and light on the opinion.

Warning opinion alert: I think you need to lighten up a little :Warnign opinion alert

Well there we go! Thanks....The answer you gave me before did not give me an explanation, in regards to the details(which is what I was looking for), as to whether or not it would or would not work. Just sounded like someone preaching the dpf and warranty. Obviously I want to maintain my warrantee, and that is why I am trying to find a way around this emmissions garbage, which I don't need.
I have another question as well. I read somewhere, but can't remember now, that trucks with pto's had the dpf removed by gm. So, they must have a factory program for those trucks. True or false?

I read somewhere, but can't remember now, that trucks with pto's had the dpf removed by gm. So, they must have a factory program for those trucks. True or false?

False. To comply with Federal emission standards all LMM equipped pickups have a DPF from the factory.

I have another question as well. I read somewhere, but can't remember now, that trucks with pto's had the dpf removed by gm. So, they must have a factory program for those trucks. True or false?

That raises another question. These trucks are sold worldwide and not just in the USA, right? I'm sure the North American trucks all have a DPF, but what about Mexico, Australia, etc? Or military versions of the vehicles intended for use in other countries that don't come with a DPF? Pure speculation at this point.

Is there a South American or US Military reflash for the ECM in the LMM where they may not come with a DPF?

Instead of going to all this trouble, just find a good dealer, talk it over with them, and see what you can come up with. My $.02

Brad,

That's just the problem, GM was tired of getting screwed by the good ole boy dealerships that would warrantee anything, think about it, it was ZERO money out of their pocket to replace an engine that was blown up due to a tuner, they stood to make a pretty penny swapping it out and as long as they covered up the fact that the ECM was tampered with it wasn't a problem for anyone but GM.

Thats all changed now that GM installed the tattle tale, no matter how good your dealership wants to be they can't make the tech II lie, you would have to photoshop the picture to change the VIN number in order to lie and good luck finding a dealership willing to do that. On top of that GM has regional warrantee managers that stop in to approve the big dollar warrantee jobs.

Tune = NO warrantee delete DPF = need a tune it's that simple and no one has a way around it.

As far as I know, some things changed between LBZ and LMM ECM tuning besides just the DPF. Different injector psi, it was lowered in the LMM I believe over the LBZ, I'm no expert by any means, but just reading about LB7's and early LLY differences the '01-'02 OS is different from the '03-'04.5. That's just me reading some questions about swapping out ECM's, BCM's. I doubt it's easy to swap LBZ/LMM ECM tunes. I've got almost 40K miles without my DPF, no issues, it's all about how you use the truck. Yeah, I probably lost the powertrain warranty, but I knew that going in. Getting rid of the turbo lag, and extra 50lbs of exhaust, changes how it drives for the better with just a 30hp tune. Keep it there, you'll probably never have an issue. I basically have stayed in a 30 or 55hp tune from the day I lost the DPF. It would be sweet if the LBZ ECM tuning would work, but I doubt it's that simple. Chris

Just on a side note, another thing GM looks at today. Say the LBZ ECM tuning did work, you have issues after 5K miles, return truck back stock to take in. They see the screen where the number of regens are recording. During that 5K miles you should/could of had as many as 15-20 regens, but, your LMM ECM shows none, red flag goes up. More investigating, you will be caught. The days of tuning, getting it paid for if YOU mess with it, is over, and I don't have one single problem with it. Pay to play is more true now than ever. Chris

Brad,

That's just the problem, GM was tired of getting screwed by the good ole boy dealerships that would warrantee anything, think about it, it was ZERO money out of their pocket to replace an engine that was blown up due to a tuner, they stood to make a pretty penny swapping it out and as long as they covered up the fact that the ECM was tampered with it wasn't a problem for anyone but GM.

Thats all changed now that GM installed the tattle tale, no matter how good your dealership wants to be they can't make the tech II lie, you would have to photoshop the picture to change the VIN number in order to lie and good luck finding a dealership willing to do that. On top of that GM has regional warrantee managers that stop in to approve the big dollar warrantee jobs.

Tune = NO warrantee delete DPF = need a tune it's that simple and no one has a way around it.
Ah, well... Like I said, it was mainly a brain fart...:o:

I am interested in losing the DPF but without tuning for more power. I have looked at several of the links provided in this forum for a tuner that would allow me to keep the stock power and torque levels but I have not seen such yet. The only tuner that I have seen that may be capable of doing that is the EFI Live, if I am not mistaken. However, from what I have read, one needs to be much more experienced with tuners than I am. In fact, my experience with tuners is 0, nada, none. Also, for what I want to do, the EFI Live is over-priced. It seems that there should be a simple plug and play tuner that has the exact parameters as the stock tune, minus the DPF and the emissions control part of the stock tune.

What I want to do is install an LBZ exhaust system and delete the DPF and emissions controls WITHOUT adding power. Can this be done? If anyone is aware of a tuner that can do this, out of the box, please let me know.

Thank you!

I am interested in losing the DPF but without tuning for more power. I have looked at several of the links provided in this forum for a tuner that would allow me to keep the stock power and torque levels but I have not seen such yet. The only tuner that I have seen that may be capable of doing that is the EFI Live, if I am not mistaken. However, from what I have read, one needs to be much more experienced with tuners than I am. In fact, my experience with tuners is 0, nada, none. Also, for what I want to do, the EFI Live is over-priced. It seems that there should be a simple plug and play tuner that has the exact parameters as the stock tune, minus the DPF and the emissions control part of the stock tune.

What I want to do is install an LBZ exhaust system and delete the DPF and emissions controls WITHOUT adding power. Can this be done? If anyone is aware of a tuner that can do this, out of the box, please let me know.

Thank you!


Quad Stealth 2. Stock, no DPF tune. Cheapest, easiest way to delete DPF and have a "stock" tune. You can have someone make you an EFIlive stock tune for little money as well. I've had a Quad before, it'll do just what it says, pretty well. Only issue I had was with higher hp levels, the defueling got to me eventually. Other than that, good, inexpensive way to get the job done. Chris

Quad Stealth 2. Stock, no DPF tune. Cheapest, easiest way to delete DPF and have a "stock" tune. You can have someone make you an EFIlive stock tune for little money as well. I've had a Quad before, it'll do just what it says, pretty well. Only issue I had was with higher hp levels, the defueling got to me eventually. Other than that, good, inexpensive way to get the job done. Chris
who would you recommend for stock tune ,

ok guys, i'm hear to tell you that the myth is true...there are still dealers that WILL take you DPF off for you and warranty it...I know of at least 3 different dealers that do it. You take ur truck in and talk it over with the diesel tech and he says sure we'll get rid of that for you, just buy the exhaust from us and let us install it...o and by the way...while we send ur computer away to get it reprogrammed, do u want somemore HP with that? It does happen you just have to go to the right dealer in the right place where they are used to ppl doing this stuff to their trucks.

I know someone is gonna call bullsh*t on this. I'm willing to show you a truck who has done just this.

ok guys, i'm hear to tell you that the myth is true...there are still dealers that WILL take you DPF off for you and warranty it...I know of at least 3 different dealers that do it. You take ur truck in and talk it over with the diesel tech and he says sure we'll get rid of that for you, just buy the exhaust from us and let us install it...o and by the way...while we send ur computer away to get it reprogrammed, do u want somemore HP with that? It does happen you just have to go to the right dealer in the right place where they are used to ppl doing this stuff to their trucks.

I know someone is gonna call bullsh*t on this. I'm willing to show you a truck who has done just this.

We don't have the same emissions laws in Canada as they do in the US. So it makes sense that a dealer might try it here because they may not be breaking any laws, just lying to GM Corporate if a warranty issue should arise.

Please PM me with the name of the Alberta dealer. I'm sick of the fuel dilution and bad fuel economy in my LMM.

I'm so glad I found this post. I want to run a programmer but not lose my warranty even though I can install the stock tune back before taking in for service. I guess I'm going to have to decide what is more important to me.