http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/exclusive-heavy-duty-diesel-pickup-comp-test?click=pp

Ne 1 see this comparison yet????

I like what I see so far look forward to the article!

Wow! that's great news. too bad I bought mine 4 months ago:mad:

Looking good!

gm kicked ass

In.

So....GM has best acceleration-with and without trailer, and best fuel economy(unloaded), Ford is the quietest:rolleyes:, and Dodge doesn't really have anything going for it!!!;) SHWEET:)

Go to this page to see 4 separate brief videos of the tow tests. The videos are one after the other down the page.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/trucks/4230317

ant theories why the ferd did better with loaded fuel economy, other than the GMC was towing 10,000# + 1 dodge?

Go to this page to see 4 separate brief videos of the tow tests. The videos are one after the other down the page.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/trucks/4230317

I think those are 2008 videos.

What? The GM gets LESS THAN 7MPG with a 10k trailer?
WTF?

Dodge does have the best brakes.

ant theories why the ferd did better with loaded fuel economy, other than the GMC was towing 10,000# + 1 dodge?

The chevy was the only one running 20" rims and tires and the ford had a higher axle ratio..

Dodge does have the best brakes.

Not according to the article. The Dodge was the lightest truck in the test and had the longest 60-0 stopping distance.

Whoops !!! Sorry about referencing the wrong videos. Good performance though. Let's hope the 2011 videos are just as impressive.

more test results like those will help me forget the sticker price

WOW! Great find Twinky.

oops, not sure what I was looking at--the Dodge does not have the best brakes. It did stop 1' shorter than the dmax on the 30-0 test.

I'm just wondering how they got the loaded milage they did--I have pulled hard with my truck before and never gotten that low.

If they took that guardrail out of the grill on the ford it might have done better. Aerodynamics don't you know.

oops, not sure what I was looking at--the Dodge does not have the best brakes. It did stop 1' shorter than the dmax on the 30-0 test.

I'm just wondering how they got the loaded milage they did--I have pulled hard with my truck before and never gotten that low.

My 2 cents on the mileage are this:
1) It was HOT and humid for the testing
2) They must've been really pushing the trucks.

I looked at the numbers from the 08 test to the 11 test and GM actually got lower mileage both empty and towing. Towing dropped from 10.6 to 7 MPG.
I'm guessing they were doing some serious hill testing to get that kind of average.
Ford and Dodge both did better empty, and worse towing. This is probably related to their dismal performance in the 08 test on empty mileage.

All in all it looks like GM has another "winner" on their hands; as they won the 08 test as well.

Pickuptruck.com started their shootout this week,it will be interesting to see if they come up the same results.

Is this not a face only a mother could love or what...-:t-:t

Is this not a face only a mother could love or what...-:t-:t

I have too agree with you that is one ugly duckling.....what were they thinking:drinking::shake:

Did anyone scroll to the bottom and read the comment.........
Your tests must be all wrong. I have been reading diesel blogs on the new Fords and they are talking about 20 to 25 miles and you know they would not lie. Ford also published the HP and Torque spec and they beat GM everywhere except the spikes above in HP and torque so your speeds must also be wrong. You know on a blog they would not lie.

He can't be serious...can he?? :hehe:

Immpressive numbers, cant wait for the full article.

And, moved to New vehicle Info.

Did anyone scroll to the bottom and read the comment.........


He can't be serious...can he?? :hehe:

Immpressive numbers, cant wait for the full article.

And, moved to New vehicle Info.I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm...prolly from someone here!!

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/exclusive-heavy-duty-diesel-pickup-comp-test?click=pp

Ne 1 see this comparison yet????

What this test is not saying or showing is that the Dodge is available with a 4.10 axle ratio which neither GM or Ford offer. I'd like to see those acceleration tests done again with the 4.10 diff in the Dodge. IMHO, the Dodge does pretty good with the 3.73's considering the difference in HP and Torque between them Ford & GM, plus it's technically last years model.

Regardless of which make you like, the HP and toque numbers are impressive. Think back 20 yrs or so and those numbers were not unusual in semi trucks.

I'm pretty sure that was sarcasm...prolly from someone here!!

That thought had crossed my mind, and is probably very true.....what a bunch of smartass's:rolleyes::D

What this test is not saying or showing is that the Dodge is available with a 4.10 axle ratio which neither GM or Ford offer. I'd like to see those acceleration tests done again with the 4.10 diff in the Dodge. IMHO, the Dodge does pretty good with the 3.73's considering the difference in HP and Torque between them Ford & GM, plus it's technically last years model.

Food for thought......
The Ford posted better numbers than the dodge with 3.55:1 gears and ~450lbs heavier.

But, I will agree that they are slightly handicapped with Ford & Chevy debuting "new" (one new, one w/ a major makeover) engines.

What this test is not saying or showing is that the Dodge is available with a 4.10 axle ratio which neither GM or Ford offer. I'd like to see those acceleration tests done again with the 4.10 diff in the Dodge. IMHO, the Dodge does pretty good with the 3.73's considering the difference in HP and Torque between them Ford & GM, plus it's technically last years model.


I disagree - In my opinion axle ratios, tire size, and cab configurations should all be similar for this type of test.

I disagree - In my opinion axle ratios, tire size, and cab configurations should all be similar for this type of test.

No, this is meant to be a test of the total vehicle performance; the most appropriate test would be to take the most advantageous rear end ratio for all three if the goal is loaded performance... and for the Dodge that would have been the 4.10s, the 3.55 in the Ford, and 3.73 in the GM twins.

Shows those ford number's on mpg were way off!

No, this is meant to be a test of the total vehicle performance; the most appropriate test would be to take the most advantageous rear end ratio for all three if the goal is loaded performance... and for the Dodge that would have been the 4.10s, the 3.55 in the Ford, and 3.73 in the GM twins.

Problem is there is no "free lunch" with axle ratios.

Dodge already posted the worst MPG empty even with the 3.73 gearing. The MPG would only have gotten worse with the lower gearing.

That's another thing that makes GM's numbers look even better. Even though Ford had slightly taller gearing GM still had the best MPG empty.

I'm not sure waht to make of the towing MPG numbers for all 3. All I can say is they mustv'e been whipping the trucks pretty hard to get ~ 7 MPG from all 3 towing. It'd be interesting for consumers to know what a comfortable 70 MPH cruise towing the same 10K would give for MPG from all 3.

I disagree - In my opinion axle ratios, tire size, and cab configurations should all be similar for this type of test.

If that's the case why are the Ford and GM 2011's and the Dodge is a 2010. Why not wait to see what Dodge offers in 2011 then do the test. Ford & GM don't offer a 4.10 ratio in their diesels, Dodge does, so if your doing a test to see which truck can pull or accelerate the best, etc, you would put together the best combination that the manufacturer offers. Dodge offers a 4.10 and anyone buying a Dodge who was serious about towing a lot of weight would normally opt for the 4.10's, which is an option not offered by the other two. IMHO, If they did the 3 truck test with a Dodge that had 4.10's the other two guy's numbers wouldn't look that impressive over the Dodge, albeit they still may be better in some cases. A 4.10 ratio is about a 10% increase over 3.73's, about 12% over 3.55's and some of those comparison numbers shown have less than a 10% difference. I could never understand why GM has never offered a 4.10 with the Dmax. :)

*subscribing*

I hope the towing numbers are a lot higher for the new model under normal circumstances. Lots of guys towing varies. I get in the 8 range, from high to low on flat ground depending on headwind.

Problem is there is no "free lunch" with axle ratios.

Dodge already posted the worst MPG empty even with the 3.73 gearing. The MPG would only have gotten worse with the lower gearing.

That's not neccessarily true. It all depends on the application. It is possible that a Cummins with the 4.10's could get better mileage. A lot of it depends on the optimum operating range of the engine.

[quote= I could never understand why GM has never offered a 4.10 with the Dmax. :)[/quote]

397 HP, 765 TQ.:)

The reason is that their is no need too. The Dmax has ALWAYS had so much more power than the Cummins that it out pulled it with the 3.73s.

Gm did test the Dmax with 4.10s and their just wasn't enough performance improvement to justify it. They said that the times were almost identical.

Sorry but my experience with dodge is not so good. The 5.9 was great but the 6.7 we have at the ranch and buddy of mine who has a few of them will tell you on real big heavy loads they just don't have the power on the top end. He uses his lmm for work because it out pulls his dodge. I am glad that they changed there interior up, they needed that bad!

I would say the reason Ford did better in breaking is their probably using softer break pads,which normally gives you better stopping power.The Fords I've had and the few people that have Fords that I know,the pads didn't last long at all(20,000-30,000 miles).I have 9X,XXX miles on my Chevy's stock pads.

I am not sure how each trucks final drive ratio worked out, but ford has a lower first and 2nd gear. I think the 3.55 thing is out. GM low fuel economy...if you had that thing to drive and it hauled a$$ like that you would play hard longer too. I would!! Looks like GM did a great job!!

Did anyone scroll to the bottom and read the comment.........


He can't be serious...can he?? :hehe:

Immpressive numbers, cant wait for the full article.

And, moved to New vehicle Info.
I posted on the PM site in regards to that post...:D

Dodge has the numerical gearing advantage here according to some rough tire calculations so why would it need 4.10's to compete? Ford is the one that is handicapped here, it has the tallest tires, the longest gears, weighs the most and it's still on Chevy's azz!
Dodge - 3.73's and 31.6" tall tires
Chevy - 3.73's and 32.5" tall tires
Ford - 3.55's and 33.2" tall tires

I will be interested to see how they got their fuel mileage #'s. I was hoping they would increase on towing, not drop by 30%.

Now if GM would just make the cab bigger like the Ford we would be all set! :D

Ford 3.55 x .67OD = 2.38
Chevy 3.73 x .61OD = 2.27
I'm sure there is a formula to take into account tire diameter, but i bet there isn't much difference in final drive

torque(lbs/ft) * final drive / tire radius(ft) = force (lbs)

Using the peak torque values

Chevy:
765x2.27 / 2.7 = 643.16 lbs

Ford:
735x2.38 / 2.76 = 633.80 lbs

So much for Fords world beating power and mileage. They made the claim publically but couldn't back it up.

Makes me think that Ford isn't Ford anymore but just cheap ass under hand marketing Toyota. Their marketing was over the top. They might as just gone out and put Rhetro Ghetto wheels on it and have Snoop Dog be their spokes person.

GM had a solid no frills message. We improved everything but no outrageous claims. Our power and payload is tops and here is the numbers from the SAE to back it up.

On another note the 4.10's in the Dodge in these race tests would have it further behind. The 4.10 would have wound the Cummins up quicker and out of it's peak torque curve. Lets face it the Cummins is a great motor but it was also designed for Delivery trucks which it does with great ease but in a race type of test it is going to loose vs a V-8. Low speed towing up turning twisting loads is where it would shine.

So....GM has best acceleration-with and without trailer, and best fuel economy(unloaded), Ford is the quietest:rolleyes: best fuel economy loaded, and Dodge doesn't really have anything going for it!!!;) SHWEET:)




what he said.


added the bold letters.

Here is the final analysis by Popular Mechanics. Ford is the winner:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/heavy-duty-diesel-pickup-comparison-test

What a good write up, happy with what I am hearing. Gotta hand it to Ford, they are on top of there game as far as extras, saw one with Doppler radar gonna need that for my new LML!! New truck was sitting at the rail yard, Should be Monday!

looks like GM wins in most performance catagories. That is were the meat and potatoes are. I'll take that over the frilly crap any day!

I've said it before, but I'll say it again. For me, the Duramax is proven. My LML is my 5th Dmax, and they've all had big trailers with big weights to tow. Every one of them could tow without any issues. Nobody knows what the long-term results are gonna be for the new 6.7L Ford. I, too, agree that GM needs to make the cab larger. That's actually my biggest complaint about my Dmax. With that said, I still bought another one. :) I like the interior of the GM trucks in LTZ trim, and I honestly would've driven a Ford had the seats not been so hideous. The two trucks sitting there were Lariats, and both of them had stickers over $60k. The center of the seats resembled a cross betweem camo and snakeskin, and I couldn't bring myself to look at that everyday...at least without a mullet. ;) I think the Ford is a great truck, but my Chevy trucks have never done me wrong. I'm 100% pleased with my purchase!

I wonder how much of the Ford's softer ride can be attributed to the 17" wheels vs the GM's 20"

From my experience, there is a fair amount of difference with that much extra sidwall on the 17" wheel/tire combos.

Anyone have a guess why the Ford had the highest speed at the top of the 15% grade?

Funny how they stated the SFA Ford rides better than the IFS GMC. Kinda discredits all the GM IFS apologists who use ride quality as their argument as to why IFS is better.

Funny how they stated the SFA Ford rides better than the IFS GMC. Kinda discredits all the GM IFS apologists who use ride quality as their argument as to why IFS is better.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions from this test. They even pointed out the difference that they felt the 20" tires/wheels made.
Also, a simple thing like different tire pressures can make a big difference.

I do hope that ford got the motor right this time. Another failure will have even the most ardent ford followers questioning their faith.

There are many things I like about the ford,,,,but the last few motors they have had makes me too scared to even consider putting my hard earned dollars into one.

I hang out with a crowd that tows HEAVY. Horse trailers with living quarters etc. Those with the fords haven't been happy. Most all of them have swtched brands by now

Funny how they stated the SFA Ford rides better than the IFS GMC. Kinda discredits all the GM IFS apologists who use ride quality as their argument as to why IFS is better.
Wether it rides softer or not ifs still handles better. sfa diehards are the guys who dont actually work their trucks but just like to sit around and fantasize about big lifts and wheels and tires which makes them completly useless cuz their trucks is the only thing they can get up any more .

I wonder how much of the Ford's softer ride can be attributed to the 17" wheels vs the GM's 20"

From my experience, there is a fair amount of difference with that much extra sidwall on the 17" wheel/tire combos.

Anyone have a guess why the Ford had the highest speed at the top of the 15% grade?

My guess is that is was just a coincidence of having just the right gear ratio for that one circumstance.
I'm assuming the trucks were all in 3rd or 4th gear during that climb, (no data given other than speeds and time). I'm guessing it was just a single circumstance where the Ford happened to be in a gear that allowed it to use available HP better, GM may have been more "between gears" for that climb where 3rd was too low and 4th too high.

Anyone who lives in the mountains and tows heavy knows that there are just some climbs where you have to "settle in" in a given gear cause if you accelerate and upshift, you'll just end up losing that speed and downshifting again.

This is a common experience with gassers, where you run out at near max RPM in a gear and just hold it until the grade changes and you can upshift.

if I may... I think the Dodge is held back due to the trasmission (68RFE). Also, out of 100 trucks around here that haul HEAVY 70% are Dodges, 18% Fords and 12% GM. There were more Fords but after blowing up all over the place the numbers went WAY down. For most folks the GM or Ford is the way to go. Dodge = crap for an every day driver that's only loaded 20% of the time, IMHO. A real test would be pulling 20k or so in 99+ temps up and down the mountains. Testing not so much speed but durability.

If they are only getting 6-7 MPG pulling 10k... a dang gasser could compete with that!

if I may... I think the Dodge is held back due to the trasmission (68RFE). Also, out of 100 trucks around here that haul HEAVY 70% are Dodges, 18% Fords and 12% GM. There were more Fords but after blowing up all over the place the numbers went WAY down. For most folks the GM or Ford is the way to go. Dodge = crap for an every day driver that's only loaded 20% of the time, IMHO. A real test would be pulling 20k or so in 99+ temps up and down the mountains. Testing not so much speed but durability.

If they are only getting 6-7 MPG pulling 10k... a dang gasser could compete with that!
Yea I dont know why they dont put a real load on them things to test them. I pull trailers that weigh more empty than the rigs they were pulling.

Here is the final analysis by Popular Mechanics. Ford is the winner:

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/reviews/comparisons/heavy-duty-diesel-pickup-comparison-test
Funny how the GMC can whoop the britches off the FORD and they still give the ford first place cuz it has more Snoop Dog bling...

Funny how the GMC can whoop the britches off the FORD and they still give the ford first place cuz it has more Snoop Dog bling...

That is because it ONLY ''Whooped its britches'' On FLAT ground, In the 15% grade it was The powerstroke out doing The duramax. Besides, i wouldnt get all bent out of shape anyways, a more reliable source will be Pickuptrucks.com on the 16th. Then we will know the King of the mountain, for now, you guys have to live with powerstroke Finally out doing the duramax.

That is because it ONLY ''Whooped its britches'' On FLAT ground, In the 15% grade it was The powerstroke out doing The duramax. Besides, i wouldnt get all bent out of shape anyways, a more reliable source will be Pickuptrucks.com on the 16th. Then we will know the King of the mountain, for now, you guys have to live with powerstroke Finally out doing the duramax.
Even it that was true...I would still go for the "Dirty Max"! Not too many 15% grades around here!

That is because it ONLY ''Whooped its britches'' On FLAT ground, In the 15% grade it was The powerstroke out doing The duramax. Besides, i wouldnt get all bent out of shape anyways, a more reliable source will be Pickuptrucks.com on the 16th. Then we will know the King of the mountain, for now, you guys have to live with powerstroke Finally out doing the duramax.


Lets get it straight ford won because of ride and the extras not really on power stats in this article, I don't buy a truck for the ride or the extras i buy one to work and I believe in that case ford lost!

If you really look at it, any of the three trucks is more than capable for personal use trucks, and all have creature comforts far beyond what was available just a few years ago. I'm not brand loyal, and when the time comes for a new truck I will drive all three and see which one fits me best. When you are within a few feet for braking, tenths of a second on acceleration, and within 5% on economy I really think it is more a matter of personal taste. I really do not think any of the three is head and shoulders above the others--they are all quite equal (personal opinoin of course).

If you really look at it, any of the three trucks is more than capable for personal use trucks, and all have creature comforts far beyond what was available just a few years ago. I'm not brand loyal, and when the time comes for a new truck I will drive all three and see which one fits me best. When you are within a few feet for braking, tenths of a second on acceleration, and within 5% on economy I really think it is more a matter of personal taste. I really do not think any of the three is head and shoulders above the others--they are all quite equal (personal opinion of course).


:exactly: Make that two personal opinions, Well Said. :thumb::thumb:

Lets get it straight ford won because of ride and the extras not really on power stats in this article, I don't buy a truck for the ride or the extras i buy one to work and I believe in that case ford lost!

Easy Ted, im on your side too buddy! :)


And i have to agree with Richterscales post, dead on.

So....GM has best acceleration-with and without trailer, and best fuel economy(unloaded), Ford is the quietest:rolleyes:, and Dodge doesn't really have anything going for it!!!;) SHWEET:)

yeah where did ford come from with this quiet diesel concept?
must have just been the crap engines international was getting them. mike rowe did some unconfirmed youtube videos about the new scorpion vs the 6.6 but the 66 is a LMM not LML. idk havent heard the new LML, and the road test they have done or the only ones i saw was the new ford vs all old dodge and gm trucks, kinda pointless isnt it?

I actually like the noise of a diesel!!!

if these over-priced turds can only get 7mpg's towing 10k ,im sticking with my 06

I do agree that any of the trucks are more than capable for what most do with them. My buddy pulled my 30' enclosed to Dallas and back (750 miles round trip) with his '05 LLY on stock tuning because EGT's were getting too high with any tuning at all. He still set the cruise and didn't notice any difference. Don't get me wrong, you consider the power numbers when buying one, but any of them will do the job for the vast majority. My '03 didn't make near as much power as my '11, but it could pull our 48' enclosed with the cruise set with no problems. For me, the Dodge wasn't ever a consideration due to past experiences, and the Ford was pretty pricey, especially considering the horrible seats in the Lariat.

I was just reading the article and saw how Ford removed some rear springs to help with the ride, I bet you that truck sits on it's ass with a big load!! I hate when the rear sags!

I was just reading the article and saw how Ford removed some rear springs to help with the ride, I bet you that truck sits on it's ass with a big load!! I hate when the rear sags!

In case you never noticed the Fords always had saggy rears. Even the old heavy duty shootout pointed that out. Next time your out on the road and pass a 5'er look and see. If it ain't sagging then it has airbags on it.

In case you never noticed the Fords always had saggy rears. Even the old heavy duty shootout pointed that out. Next time your out on the road and pass a 5'er look and see. If it ain't sagging then it has airbags on it.

Ya I just figured with the increase load capabilities they might have fixed that problem.

...so a piece of software located in the cluster was one of very very few reasons a truck on an essentially 11 year old chassis gave it 1st place? Hmm...

so the 2011's (gm) have the worst braking of the 3 after upgrading to biggar disc's? And the poorest fuel economy towing....according to that test they under delivered.

so the 2011's (gm) have the worst braking of the 3 after upgrading to biggar disc's? And the poorest fuel economy towing....according to that test they under delivered.


You know, sometimes I think that the General & Ford are so busy trying to outdo each other, probably in part to the large following each of them have, they forget some of the important things that mean something to the buyers of these trucks.

so the 2011's (gm) have the worst braking of the 3 after upgrading to biggar disc's? And the poorest fuel economy towing....according to that test they under delivered.

At 7mpg when towing, why pay the premium for a diesel?
Looks like I will be keeping my LBZ for a long time.

Of course the question is did it go into regen mode while they were towing of course I am sure they didn't account for any of the dpf stuff

...so a piece of software located in the cluster was one of very very few reasons a truck on an essentially 11 year old chassis gave it 1st place? Hmm...

Means the ford has come a long way eh?

In case you never noticed the Fords always had saggy rears. Even the old heavy duty shootout pointed that out. Next time your out on the road and pass a 5'er look and see. If it ain't sagging then it has airbags on it.

Only the F250, the 350 and 450 don't sag...

7mpg, reckon theyonly did that bad as they were running em balls out...

agree that the Ford frame etc must be due for a refresh at some point. It remains strong but GM really made major changes and will likely be my next truck...

Dodge are way behind right now...they finally got a nice interior but the engine ratings are comparitively low and the weight capabilities are a JOKE

Only the F250, the 350 and 450 don't sag...

7mpg, reckon theyonly did that bad as they were running em balls out...

agree that the Ford frame etc must be due for a refresh at some point. It remains strong but GM really made major changes and will likely be my next truck...

Dodge are way behind right now...they finally got a nice interior but the engine ratings are comparitively low and the weight capabilities are a JOKE

Don't know for sure about the 6.6.4 generation Turds but the 350 7.3's of the late 1990's did sag. The owner of a stockyard where I used to work always used GM trucks (454) to pull his cattle trailers until about 1997-98. He decided he would swithch yto diesels so he bought two brand new Ford duallys. He has 36' goosneck brand trailer that he had always had behind the GMC 3500. The first time he loaded the trailer behind the Ford he had to unload 8 cows to get the fenders off of the tires enough to pull the load out of the barnyard! He installed aiarbags the next day.

Alright to all the guys for mpg, lets be honest here you want the 400 horses and all the torque that comes with it, and when your using it you won't fuel economy as well, sorry the two just don't mix. Any truck you get in these days is gonna have bad fuel economy when tied to a substantial load.

well with just a bullydog on 18's 33's i get 17/18 not pulling.... now when pulling 5,600 trailer or this 12,700 lb trailer i get any were from 9 in the mountains to an ave of 10mpg on flat land....on my 08 LMM... as soon as i can i will do a dpf delete kit and new programmer... and that should help... but this thing tows the big trailer just as easy as the small 1...

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e255/towboattrash34/ToyHauler2.jpg

I averaged 11.8 mpg towing a 14k 5er in my 08 and I expect to do as well if not better with my 2011. At this point on the same roads empty im getting 2 mpg better then the 08 did. Tomorrow I have to make some mount brackets for my Reese hitch then I will get back to towing and see what kind of mileage i get here in Oreegun

I averaged 11.8 mpg towing a 14k 5er in my 08 and I expect to do as well if not better with my 2011. At this point on the same roads empty im getting 2 mpg better then the 08 did. Tomorrow I have to make some mount brackets for my Reese hitch then I will get back to towing and see what kind of mileage i get here in Oreegun
Hey Mike, it says in your sig that you have an Insight, do you just have it for gauges?

Yes its a gauge and you can clear codes with it. I tow a 14k 5er all the time and I have it set with different warning levels for different functions I like to keep my eye on. Edge does not have the programing for the 2011 yet but most all of the items I look at still work.

Yes its a gauge and you can clear codes with it. I tow a 14k 5er all the time and I have it set with different warning levels for different functions I like to keep my eye on. Edge does not have the programing for the 2011 yet but most all of the items I look at still work.
Thats kind of what I thought but wasn't exactly sure. I didn't know that the Edge would work on the LML, but I guess so.

Just me being curious... :D

cool! Thats awesome the Edge still works on the LML.

I wonder if anyone, just for grins, has tried connecting to an LML with EFILive?? (set the ECM-type to LMM in efilive)