I pull a 20' box trailer often with 6 to 10000lbs. Would it be better for me to go with the 6.0, 6.2, or the Dmax. I love the dmax but is it worth the extra with the relatively light towing I do.

Depends on what you want. If it is worth it to you then it is worth it. I would go with the diesel because I like being able to tow anything I need to or want to at the speed limit up a 9% grade.

you cant get the 6.2 in a 2500/3500 truck, so you are limited to the 6.0 or duramax.

The 6.0 will handle it just fine. But it will be working harder, revving higher, shifting more often, and get worse fuel economy in the process.

the duramax has an exhaust brake as well, which is nice when towing.

ben

I pull a 20' box trailer often with 6 to 10000lbs. Would it be better for me to go with the 6.0, 6.2, or the Dmax. I love the dmax but is it worth the extra with the relatively light towing I do.


How many miles a year do you tow? That would be my main concern. If you towed 20% of the time and the rest highway, go with the 6.0. If you tow 50%+ of the time it may be beneficial to upgrade to the diesel just for shear comfort factor towing. As far as the economics go with mileage, if you'll have to put 30,000 miles/year to payback the cost of the diesel option. Basically now you're looking at $10K option if you consider sales tax and financing over the 6.0. You can put a ton of gas in for that. Based on what I've seen the newer 6.0's with the six-speeds aren't that far off of the diesels in unloaded mileage. Plus now you have to put urea in the tank in addition to fuel. Don't think that adds much cost, just adds more maintainance and potential costs of emmsions equipment down the road compared to a gasser.

One other aspect to consider is resale value. A used Duramax 4x4 is always in great demand. My '08 stickered for just over $50k, and I bought it for $41,500 + TTL. I put 70k on it in 2.5 years, and I sold it for $35k. Granted, this was with some upgrades on the truck, but that's awesome resale value all considered. The Dmax is definitely more money up front. If you can afford it, it's absolutely worth it to me! Once you've towed with a diesel, you don't want to ever tow with a gas truck again. FYI, my 6.0L truck would get 15-15.5 MPG on the highway, and my past Duramaxes have been in the 18 MPG range with a best of 20 MPG unloaded with no wind.

I had an 08 2500 6.0 one of the worst vehicle decisions i ever made. If you are going to be pulling that kind of weight be prepared to spent a lot of time in the slow lane.The 6.0 is a joke with just about anything behind it i struggeled to get 8 mpg.Go for the d max it is more up front but is worth more at selling time plus the dmax will sell 10 times as fast.

Get the Dmax if your wallet can handle it, you wont regret it no matter how you slice it, its more $. More $ to buy, maintain, and fill. The insane can rationalize anything.


I tow nothing and buy dmax because I like them.


Bottom line, if you dont like what you buy you wont like making the payments.

I had an 08 2500 6.0 one of the worst vehicle decisions i ever made. If you are going to be pulling that kind of weight be prepared to spent a lot of time in the slow lane.The 6.0 is a joke with just about anything behind it i struggeled to get 8 mpg.Go for the d max it is more up front but is worth more at selling time plus the dmax will sell 10 times as fast.
X2

I have been struggling with the same decision for the last year. I tow our TT(9000#) loaded currently with a gasser. I borrowed my friend's LBZ, and was sold half way up the first hill. I live in Michigan, so nothing crazy for hills, the gassers just wont hold a gear or speed. The gasser will never lock into OD, while towing our TT. The DMAX locks in and never even thinks about down shifting, even while accelerating up hills, just give it a little more skinny pedal and it goes. I ordered a 2011 2500 ccsb DMAX last week. Once you tow with a diesel you will never go back. Good luck

Notice the only guy saying the gasser is okay is the guy with a gasser. The 6.0 is the same underpowered gas guzzler it ever was an 10,000lbs is no joke....get the LML and smile or make a poor decision...there's your two choices...

-Rob

It is your money. As for me My money is still in my wallet. I got the gasser in 2006. I love it. I pull my TT that is 8000 #'s without any problems. The gas milage does suck but if I wanted good gas milage I would have bought a GEO.

Besides towing, fuel mileage, etc. the main thing to remember is RESALE......Yeah, it's that much more up front, BUT you will make almost all of that money back, and the rest of it you don't make back, will be made up for in fuel costs. It like giving someone a loan for a little while, while you own the truck, and during that time you get better fuel mileage, WAY better towing, etc. and when you sell the truck you get that money you loaned back. JMO

I say test drive them both a few times then make the decision for yourself.

I have a 25' TT but I only use it maybe twice a year and a 1/2 ton would have got me by. I just wanted a diesel for the sake of having a diesel....I think theyre cool, I like the way they sound, and I LOVE the power.

To me its like a buying a hummer. Its sort of a statement. I wanted to be one of the biggest and baddest vehicles on the road.

Notice the only guy saying the gasser is okay is the guy with a gasser. The 6.0 is the same underpowered gas guzzler it ever was an 10,000lbs is no joke....get the LML and smile or make a poor decision...there's your two choices...

-Rob

To say the 6.0 is an underpowered gas guzzler is just plain ignorant. The 6.0 will pull 10K just fine. Sure it won't have the TQ going up steep grades, but it will do it. I've pulled cattle trailers grossing out at 23,000 lbs GCVW @ 65 mph. Slow as heck to get up to speed, but it will do it. My father-in-law has had an 8.1, LLY, and now an LMM. His new LMM has lifetime mileage of 12.5 mpg. He tows an 24' enclosed car trailer around the country with a street rod. Loaded he gets 9-10, unloaded maybe 16-17. That's pretty much everyone I know with an LMM gets around here (stock setup). I find it hilarious how some people on here buy a diesel that never tow anything. Buy the diesel if you need the power and tow often. I don't tow often and only put 12,000 miles a year on so I can't "economically" justify it. Now would I like to have a diesel, heck yes. A huge difference between wanting and needing.

Nothing wrong with a gasser if it suits your needs but when towing your mileage will be terrible. Hauling my boat with my wifes 6.0 2500 suburban only get about 7.5 to 8 miles to the gallon at 70. Gas is fine I just don't like the resale value of a gas. Diesel is investment no doubt but on the resale it is well worth it, I do pull often with both gas and diesel, gas will get the job done but I do agree with comment that once you pull with a diesel there is no going back.

I had a 99 Ford 7.3 diesel for about 2 or 3 years,then went to a Chevy 454 gasser for about a year and it sucked so I got a Duramax.The thought of towing with something else just flat depresses me.When I went to order the new truck,my wife found out how much extra it was for the diesel and wanted to know why we needed it and couldn't the gas one tow the trailer.I told her yes but it would suck and I'd keep my old truck before I traded it in for a gasser (and I really did mean it lol).I would rather have an old Duramax than a new gasser,any day,but each to his own.

To say the 6.0 is an underpowered gas guzzler is just plain ignorant. The 6.0 will pull 10K just fine. Sure it won't have the TQ going up steep grades, but it will do it. I've pulled cattle trailers grossing out at 23,000 lbs GCVW @ 65 mph. Slow as heck to get up to speed, but it will do it.

You'll wear out the engine in no time at 23k GC and I'm sure you're at about 6mpg....and resale, well the money you "saved" will vanish come trade in...your defensiveness speaks volumes, fact is a 4cyl can pull 10k but it ain't doing anyone any good to do it...the 6.0 is old with poor specific output and only in America would it not get laughed out of showrooms, just the facts....

-Rob

To say the 6.0 is an underpowered gas guzzler is just plain ignorant. The 6.0 will pull 10K just fine. Sure it won't have the TQ going up steep grades, but it will do it. I've pulled cattle trailers grossing out at 23,000 lbs GCVW @ 65 mph. Slow as heck to get up to speed, but it will do it. My father-in-law has had an 8.1, LLY, and now an LMM. His new LMM has lifetime mileage of 12.5 mpg. He tows an 24' enclosed car trailer around the country with a street rod. Loaded he gets 9-10, unloaded maybe 16-17. That's pretty much everyone I know with an LMM gets around here (stock setup). I find it hilarious how some people on here buy a diesel that never tow anything. Buy the diesel if you need the power and tow often. I don't tow often and only put 12,000 miles a year on so I can't "economically" justify it. Now would I like to have a diesel, heck yes. A huge difference between wanting and needing.
Yea i had about 10k behind the 6.0 i had one time, and it sounded like it was going to sling a rod thru the hood i always had to keep 6th gear locked out on the interstate just to maintain highway speeds that was with 5k.Some people on here saying they pull good, maybe i just had a sick one.I have drove several of the old chevys with the 454 and they did pull decent but at 5mpg

I would go with the diesel, even if its an LMM or older. I have been driving a 6.0L with the new 6 speed at work and it gets the job done, but thats about it. Not very impressive or nice to drive. I would get a used LMM before a new 6.0L gas after driving them. I used to drive a 2002 6.0L gas truck and it seemed much better for towing and was nicer to drive than the 14,000 mile 2009. Go figure.

Fwiw, I had a 6.0 gasser ExCAB SB before my LLY, and current LMM. The 6.0 would do whatever my dmax would do, just not as "well" or easy. The mileage argument is crap from an economic standpoint, unless you drive quite a bit you never make up the $ on mileage, although filling up less is plus as I hate to stop for fuel.

Resale argument is basically crap as well, key is to define what "better" resale is. Diesels hold their value slightly better than a gasser percentage wise certainly not enough to rationalize on its own merit the 10k admission fee.

IMHOP, if your wallet can stand it diesel is a better driving truck all around, towing, driving, plowing, sitting in it, or whatever else you want to do with it.

I would go with the diesel, even if its an LMM or older. I have been driving a 6.0L with the new 6 speed at work and it gets the job done, but thats about it. Not very impressive or nice to drive. I would get a used LMM before a new 6.0L gas after driving them. I used to drive a 2002 6.0L gas truck and it seemed much better for towing and was nicer to drive than the 14,000 mile 2009. Go figure.

I agree. Somehow Gm made the newer one with more power and more gears tow less efficiently than my 04! My friend has the 08 and he hates it compared to my 4 gear 2004. We have both towed my small boat, a 19 ft bayliner which maybe weighs 4k loaded with gear and fuel, his truck burned way more fuel and was constantly hunting for gears and kicking down on the highway trying to maintain 60 mph on even the smallest grades, mine with the 4 speed would maintain 60pmh with ease and felt much better towing the load. I guess with the 6sp you have to lock out 6th gear to keep it from shifting out all the time.
Personaly, I would not want to tow much over 5k with the gasser if done on a regular basis. It will do the job but you will soon hate the truck like my friend does, he wants to trade it up for a diesel.

You'll wear out the engine in no time at 23k GC and I'm sure you're at about 6mpg....and resale, well the money you "saved" will vanish come trade in...your defensiveness speaks volumes, fact is a 4cyl can pull 10k but it ain't doing anyone any good to do it...the 6.0 is old with poor specific output and only in America would it not get laughed out of showrooms, just the facts....

-Rob


Not trying to be defensive. You're right if I pulled that weight all the time it would wear out the drive train much faster than a diesel. However, I only tow maybe 10% of the time and it's not enough to justify the diesel. All I'm trying to say is that the 6.0 is not "old with poor speific output". It is a very capable engine. Maybe some people have driven a "sick" one, but mine suits me fine. My god 10 years ago we used have a 350/454 that got us by. Why the heck do you need semi power in a 3/4 ton pickup? FYI, several farmers around here have gone back to gas from diesel. Granted many are Ford owners though, no surprise.

As far as resale, at least where I'm at similar mileage 6.0 vs D-Max's are around 10-12K difference. So the resale is no doubt better, but right now the demand for used diesels has really held it's own because a new one is 50K+ now.

Not trying to be defensive. You're right if I pulled that weight all the time it would wear out the drive train much faster than a diesel. However, I only tow maybe 10% of the time and it's not enough to justify the diesel. All I'm trying to say is that the 6.0 is not "old with poor speific output". It is a very capable engine. Maybe some people have driven a "sick" one, but mine suits me fine. My god 10 years ago we used have a 350/454 that got us by. Why the heck do you need semi power in a 3/4 ton pickup? FYI, several farmers around here have gone back to gas from diesel. Granted many are Ford owners though, no surprise.

As far as resale, at least where I'm at similar mileage 6.0 vs D-Max's are around 10-12K difference. So the resale is no doubt better, but right now the demand for used diesels has really held it's own because a new one is 50K+ now.


Dude we get it, you made a logical economic decision for what you do its not worth the 10k price of admission.

Does not take away from the fact that the dmax is a better truck overall.

I made an emotional decision, I have a desk job and tow nothing, I need a dmax like a hole in my head.

If you dont like driving it, you wont like paying for it.:)

I have an o6 lbz with 98k on her,i figured i get atleast 4mpg better over all compared to gas. Based on miles driven,cost difference between gas and diesel,the diesel option paid for itself at around 75k.Resale value and tremendous power are a good bonus plus you will get better durrability. and the Allison.

Not trying to be defensive. You're right if I pulled that weight all the time it would wear out the drive train much faster than a diesel. However, I only tow maybe 10% of the time and it's not enough to justify the diesel. All I'm trying to say is that the 6.0 is not "old with poor speific output". It is a very capable engine. Maybe some people have driven a "sick" one, but mine suits me fine. My god 10 years ago we used have a 350/454 that got us by. Why the heck do you need semi power in a 3/4 ton pickup? FYI, several farmers around here have gone back to gas from diesel. Granted many are Ford owners though, no surprise.

As far as resale, at least where I'm at similar mileage 6.0 vs D-Max's are around 10-12K difference. So the resale is no doubt better, but right now the demand for used diesels has really held it's own because a new one is 50K+ now.
I also remember it really sucking towing with the old 350-454,or even worse,being stuck behind someone towing with one in the hills.lol!I like having semi power and I want more and I'll take all their willing to give me.lol!I do understand that not everyone cares about having more power than it takes to get the job done,no matter how long it takes to get the job done,and some people feel it's a waste of money to buy things just because they like it,if they don't have to have it,no matter how much money they have.

I had a 6.0 before my current LLY, and granted I'm not talking about 2011 model trucks, the diesel is far superior. My TT is only about 7k fully loaded, and it would definetely bog down the 6.0. I honestly forget it's even there in my dmax. Steep hills and all, throw it in cruise and the dmax doesn't even bat an eye with the weight. I'd be willing to bet my dmax will accelerate faster with the trailer than the 6.0 could empty. I will never go back to gas.

I had a 6.0 before my current LLY, and granted I'm not talking about 2011 model trucks, the diesel is far superior. My TT is only about 7k fully loaded, and it would definetely bog down the 6.0. I honestly forget it's even there in my dmax. Steep hills and all, throw it in cruise and the dmax doesn't even bat an eye with the weight. I'd be willing to bet my dmax will accelerate faster with the trailer than the 6.0 could empty. I will never go back to gas.

Lets line them up! What is the bet? There has been a head to head report putting the BIG Three against each other in the 3/4 and 1 ton class Empty and with a trailer. The Gas and diesel were really close in times pulling the same weight. So to say you will take a gas with a load is a load.

Lets line them up! What is the bet? There has been a head to head report putting the BIG Three against each other in the 3/4 and 1 ton class Empty and with a trailer. The Gas and diesel were really close in times pulling the same weight. So to say you will take a gas with a load is a load.


Up a 6% grade and your on!

I am sure the towing perf on the 6-0 is the same as the dmax down hill with the wind.

C'mon man, if there was no advantage to a diesel or if the two motors were really that close how would GM be able to sell them at a 10k over a gasser?

Lets line them up! What is the bet? There has been a head to head report putting the BIG Three against each other in the 3/4 and 1 ton class Empty and with a trailer. The Gas and diesel were really close in times pulling the same weight. So to say you will take a gas with a load is a load.

I'm just saying, I've owned both and my Dmax would destroy my old 6.0 in all aspects.

in a pull of there is no comp with a gas vs a diesel!!!! A gas can do it not as well as a diesel.

There hasn't been a shootout yet,with the new 2011.That extra 100 foot pounds of torque should separate them even more.Isn't Pickuptruck.com doing their shootout this week?

If a gas truck blows your skirt up then more power to ya. I had a 2002 6.0 2500HD ECSB, and it was fine when pulling my 18' flat bed trailer. I traded it in on an '03 LB7 so I could buy a 48' enclosed trailer, and I've been driving a diesel ever since. If a 6.0 works for what you're doing and you're happy with it considering the money saved up front then go for it. Everyone has their preference. I personally won't pull anything unless it's with a diesel, no matter the size/weight of the load. That's my preference, and I can afford the additional cost of owning one. :)

There hasn't been a shootout yet,with the new 2011.That extra 100 foot pounds of torque should separate them even more.Isn't Pickuptruck.com doing their shootout this week?
Looks like it starts tomorrow,should be interesting to see how they all stack up.

Get the diesel its the only way!

I had a 6.0 before my current LLY, and granted I'm not talking about 2011 model trucks, the diesel is far superior. My TT is only about 7k fully loaded, and it would definetely bog down the 6.0. I honestly forget it's even there in my dmax. Steep hills and all, throw it in cruise and the dmax doesn't even bat an eye with the weight.


I'd be willing to bet my dmax will accelerate faster with the trailer than the 6.0 could empty. I will never go back to gas.


This is the statement that I am calling a load. There is no way his Dmax will beat my 6.0 gas his with a load and mine empty. SO lets line them up I will smoke you all day long. This is just a stupid statement. I am not saying the dmax is not better all around. I am saying the 6.0 does what I need it to do.

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This is the statement that I am calling a load. There is no way his Dmax will beat my 6.0 gas his with a load and mine empty. SO lets line them up I will smoke you all day long. This is just a stupid statement. I am not saying the dmax is not better all around. I am saying the 6.0 does what I need it to do.
I would say you are right but it also depends on the load if the dmax, if it is under 6,000 lbs and you have an empty trailer my money would be on the dmax, ever read diesel power where people are running twelves on the drag strip with a 10,000 lb load. Gas trucks do work but not that good. My cousins dmax with a chip pulling a bumper trailer with my old 97 2500 on it smoked my buddy's truck with no trailer that's when i decided I needed on for myself!!

I would say you are right but it also depends on the load if the dmax, if it is under 6,000 lbs and you have an empty trailer my money would be on the dmax, ever read diesel power where people are running twelves on the drag strip with a 10,000 lb load. Gas trucks do work but not that good. My cousins dmax with a chip pulling a bumper trailer with my old 97 2500 on it smoked my buddy's truck with no trailer that's when i decided I needed on for myself!!


12's in an 1/8 mile? Calling complete BS on 10,000 load in the 12's in a 1/4 mile.

I didn't call a 1/4 mile, it is an 1/8 mile run, don't know of any gasser that can do that with 10,000 lb load. I take it you don't read diesel power, just kinda assumed most people here did read that magazine.

I didn't call a 1/4 mile, it is an 1/8 mile run, don't know of any gasser that can do that with 10,000 lb load. I take it you don't read diesel power, just kinda assumed most people here did read that magazine.


We'll Im definately ignorant in regards to this type of racing/towing or whatever you call it. Didn't know that it was 1/8 mile, just assumed it was 1/4 mile. Still pretty impressive to pull that weight at an 1/8 mile though.

I've towed with both.

The gas engine will do it, but your power all comes from downshifting, expect that tranny to be downshifting fast the minute you start climbing. Nothing like the the sound of 4,200 rpm and having trouble maintaining speed.

The diesel will do it, holding your speed and maybe dropping down 1 or 2 gears.

My buddy tows a super lightweight TT and gets 6 mpg crawling up hills. I tow a 35' 5er and get 13.5 day in and day out.

If you compare a 1/2 ton gas with a 3/4 ton diesel, the gas price will be usually cheaper, the ride will definitely be more comfortable with the 1/2 ton. Not to mention the price of admission is less with the gas models.

I've towed with both.

The gas engine will do it, but your power all comes from downshifting, expect that tranny to be downshifting fast the minute you start climbing. Nothing like the the sound of 4,200 rpm and having trouble maintaining speed.


If you compare a 1/2 ton gas with a 3/4 ton diesel, the gas price will be usually cheaper, the ride will definitely be more comfortable with the 1/2 ton. Not to mention the price of admission is less with the gas models.

This was the step I took and I don't even own a large trailer. I do tow them though not frequently. I still wouldn't go back because this truck gets better mileage than my 1/2 ton EC did and has more room and a boat load more power. I also bought mine when diesel was near $5/gal in the midwest two years ago. Everyone said I was an idiot, but trade on my gasser was at a premium and the diesel was dirt cheap. Now my truck with 50k more miles and two more years of age is still worth more than I paid for it then. Even my wife would not let me go back to a gas truck unless something really unfortunate forced it.

However, needs vs wants is why I own a used one and will not anytime in the foreseeable future purchase a brand new one. I may buy an lml in a few years but mine has lots of life left in it for what I use it for so I'll let someone else take the initial hit in depreciation and will shop to pay what I want like before.

I would say you are right but it also depends on the load if the dmax, if it is under 6,000 lbs and you have an empty trailer my money would be on the dmax, ever read diesel power where people are running twelves on the drag strip with a 10,000 lb load. Gas trucks do work but not that good. My cousins dmax with a chip pulling a bumper trailer with my old 97 2500 on it smoked my buddy's truck with no trailer that's when i decided I needed on for myself!!


6000#'S DMAX VS MY 6.0 EMPTY. Again lets line them up. I will put my title on the line. Oh and I am not talking about anyother truck but your own. Because I could also mod my truck to run faster. I am not saying the gasser is better than the DMAX. What I am pointing out is that some idiot is saying his DMAX will beat my 6.0L with a load on and mine will be empty,,,, is stupid. I am not talking about PEOPLE doing sled pulls. I am talking about his truck.

6000#'S DMAX VS MY 6.0 EMPTY. Again lets line them up. I will put my title on the line. Oh and I am not talking about anyother truck but your own. Because I could also mod my truck to run faster. I am not saying the gasser is better than the DMAX. What I am pointing out is that some idiot is saying his DMAX will beat my 6.0L with a load on and mine will be empty,,,, is stupid. I am not talking about PEOPLE doing sled pulls. I am talking about his truck.


Agreed my truck is highly modified and I wouldn't do that to you hahaha and it's for sale wouldn't wanna have to put more money into the truck my lml will be here soon.

That is fine mine is an 06 ext cab stock with 4.10 rears. No way you win with a 6000# trailer.

That is fine mine is an 06 ext cab stock with 4.10 rears. No way you win with a 6000# trailer.

Your all worked up on that comment, honestly they way the truck is rigged you wouldn't stand a chance my garage doesn't have my updates, you with a trailer empty and me 6,000 lbs same trailer I would win like I said my truck is highly modified you would lose, stock you would win no way you can change my mind on that topic, didn't spend 12 grand for nothing, my brother has a 6.0 and wifes suburban is a 6.0 both with 4.10s off the line you wouldn't be able to catch sorry done this type of race before done talking about this unless you wanna put up pink slips before you say something you might regret with a change in tune I have 700 + hp, the cp dual fueler pumps, injectors, tranny, and a bigger turbo. All of course with help and suggestions of the web site!

6000#'S DMAX VS MY 6.0 EMPTY. Again lets line them up. I will put my title on the line. Oh and I am not talking about anyother truck but your own. Because I could also mod my truck to run faster. I am not saying the gasser is better than the DMAX. What I am pointing out is that some idiot is saying his DMAX will beat my 6.0L with a load on and mine will be empty,,,, is stupid. I am not talking about PEOPLE doing sled pulls. I am talking about his truck.


Wow. So now I'm an idiot? You can't even get the poster correct. I made the initial comment, not Ted308. Tell me, did I once say anything about you? Did I mention your precious 6.0? Nope. Chill out Captain Overreaction. Maybe get off a DIESEL forum if you can't handle people saying diesel engines are better than gas. I said what I believe, my modded dmax (although certainly not to the extent of Ted308's) with a light load could take a 6.0 empty. If you don't believe that, good for you. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?

Whew, getting a little tense in here...anyway, I am pretty new here; been prowlin' for a while but find that I don't usually post unless I feel like I can add something of value to the discussion. So...here it goes:

I have owned my 2008 Dmax (LMM of course) since August of 2009. It had 25,500 miles on it when I bought it. I was transitioning from a 2003 6.0L 2500HD EC, LB. I keep very good records of fuel economy both when towing and not towing. We do a lot of camping and ATVing. My TT weights in at 6300 completely empty. When we travel loaded down (gas, quads, all gear, no water) we usually end up around 8800 to 9000 lbs according to the local weigh station. The 6.0 averaged 13.5 - 14.0 mpg in daily driving and got up around 17 mpg cruising at 70 mph on the freeway. Towing, it took a real crap and dropped to 6-7 mpg pulling the loaded trailer at 65 mph. Our new Dmax got around 14.5 - 15 mpg for the first six months that I had it. Then I changed the fuel filter. You guys would not believe the filth in there! Our daily driving mileage went up to 16.5 - 17 mpg (we go up and down 1000' in elevation coming and going from our house to town). Highway driving went from 17-18 mpg before changing the fuel filter to just a hair over 20 mpg! Pulling the loaded trailer before the filter change resulted in about 9 mpg. Now we are over 10 mpg. All of our trips have had a mountain pass in them so I imaging that we would do a bit better on the flats.

If it were just the towing, I probably couldn't justify the switch...I could get close, but not quite. However, we also wanted to be done with the extended cab since the kids are getting bigger. The Dmax is a CCSB. Also, the 2003 was an LS. The new truck has every option but rear entertainment and nav.

I gotta tell ya, the 2003 did a damn fine job towing for what it was. It just had to be wound to the moon to pull, but if you could get 'er rolling and get the RPM up, you could move up the hills with the trailer OK. The crappy part was when there was a sharp corner or curve before a climb. Even the 2003 6.0L didn't have the juice to get the load moving. That is not an issue with the Duramax. Also, it smelled like I scorched the hell out of the torque converter after an aggressive, high RPM climb pulling that trailer. I was always as nervous as a wallmart crackhead after running the truck that hard.

Good luck with your decision!

Whew, getting a little tense in here...anyway, I am pretty new here; been prowlin' for a while but find that I don't usually post unless I feel like I can add something of value to the discussion. So...here it goes:

I have owned my 2008 Dmax (LMM of course) since August of 2009. It had 25,500 miles on it when I bought it. I was transitioning from a 2003 6.0L 2500HD EC, LB. I keep very good records of fuel economy both when towing and not towing. We do a lot of camping and ATVing. My TT weights in at 6300 completely empty. When we travel loaded down (gas, quads, all gear, no water) we usually end up around 8800 to 9000 lbs according to the local weigh station. The 6.0 averaged 13.5 - 14.0 mpg in daily driving and got up around 17 mpg cruising at 70 mph on the freeway. Towing, it took a real crap and dropped to 6-7 mpg pulling the loaded trailer at 65 mph. Our new Dmax got around 14.5 - 15 mpg for the first six months that I had it. Then I changed the fuel filter. You guys would not believe the filth in there! Our daily driving mileage went up to 16.5 - 17 mpg (we go up and down 1000' in elevation coming and going from our house to town). Highway driving went from 17-18 mpg before changing the fuel filter to just a hair over 20 mpg! Pulling the loaded trailer before the filter change resulted in about 9 mpg. Now we are over 10 mpg. All of our trips have had a mountain pass in them so I imaging that we would do a bit better on the flats.

If it were just the towing, I probably couldn't justify the switch...I could get close, but not quite. However, we also wanted to be done with the extended cab since the kids are getting bigger. The Dmax is a CCSB. Also, the 2003 was an LS. The new truck has every option but rear entertainment and nav.

I gotta tell ya, the 2003 did a damn fine job towing for what it was. It just had to be wound to the moon to pull, but if you could get 'er rolling and get the RPM up, you could move up the hills with the trailer OK. The crappy part was when there was a sharp corner or curve before a climb. Even the 2003 6.0L didn't have the juice to get the load moving. That is not an issue with the Duramax. Also, it smelled like I scorched the hell out of the torque converter after an aggressive, high RPM climb pulling that trailer. I was always as nervous as a wallmart crackhead after running the truck that hard.

Good luck with your decision!

Good analysis. My 6.0 does fine because I live where it's flat. If I lived in a more "hilly" area or towed frequently in the mountains, then now way would I have a gas engine. If I tried pulling a load of cattle up a 8% grade I'd probably be in 1st gear turning 5 grand. On the flats I can do it most generally in OD.

Oh-yeah, back when diesel was $5/gal I thought real hard about making the switch because of the crazy deals that were going on around here with people who bought late model diesels that really had no need for them and were sick of filling up for $100 bucks a few times a week. Problem was I couldn't get much for the gasser either! IIRC, there were some low mileage 08's in the low 30's at that time. Now they go for that with 50K on them two years later.

Once you go black you will never go back.

Yes gas will get the job done, it will just be slower. If you want to make it easier get a diesel. I live by "work smarter not harder". The diesel will last longer and it will do it easier, thus working smarter.

Thats my personal opinion. Do what makes you happy. Thats whats great about this country.

I had gas engines before and they did ok, but now even just daily driving w/o a trailer the diesel is just so much fun to drive. That turbo wine is music to my ears. Also diesels are a lot easier to mod to get more HP.

If you could afford it get a diesel. The only reason I was able to get one is I bought it during employee pricing 2 years ago when gas was through the roof. I got it for 35k and if I wanted to sell it today it would go for 35k. But I don't want to spend 50k on a new truck. The truck does everything I want except for that pesky IFS. I will have to change that. LOL.

Wow. So now I'm an idiot? You can't even get the poster correct. I made the initial comment, not Ted308. Tell me, did I once say anything about you? Did I mention your precious 6.0? Nope. Chill out Captain Overreaction. Maybe get off a DIESEL forum if you can't handle people saying diesel engines are better than gas. I said what I believe, my modded dmax (although certainly not to the extent of Ted308's) with a light load could take a 6.0 empty. If you don't believe that, good for you. No reason to get all bent out of shape.

Do you ever wonder what life would be like if you'd had enough oxygen at birth?


I did not get the poster wrong. I did not care too much (I have a life) to look back so I called it like I see it an idiot is an idiot. Again you miss the point. I am saying the DMAX is a much better engine than my gasser. You win on that hands down. I will put my STOCK truck on the line you with the extra 6,000#'s. I always wanted the DMAX but just did not want to spend my money when my 6.0 gas does what I need it to do and this will get me on!:D

I did not get the poster wrong. I did not care too much (I have a life) to look back so I called it like I see it an idiot is an idiot. Again you miss the point. I am saying the DMAX is a much better engine than my gasser. You win on that hands down. I will put my STOCK truck on the line you with the extra 6,000#'s. I always wanted the DMAX but just did not want to spend my money when my 6.0 gas does what I need it to do and this will get me on!:D


You seem very angry for a fifth grade teacher with a life! No reason's to get personal and call people idiots. It's obvious you don't know to much about diesels but glad you are a fan of them, if you ever did some serious pulling you would know 6,000 lbs really isn't that much weight, hell I put 4,000 lbs in my truck bed alone.

You seem very angry for a fifth grade teacher with a life! No reason's to get personal and call people idiots. It's obvious you don't know to much about diesels but glad you are a fan of them, if you ever did some serious pulling you would know 6,000 lbs really isn't that much weight, hell I put 4,000 lbs in my truck bed alone.


Well after all he is an Eagles fan! Couldn't resist that!

Nobody talked about longevity which is the secondary reason for a diesel. Towing 10K on a regular basis with the 6.0 and you will smoke a trans and that is $3K. That motor is also done towing that weight at 200K miles. That is another $3K. Now the Dmax and Allison should easily make 300K. Fuel mileage is probably a wash but when I bought my truck in '06 diesel was 30 cents cheaper then gas during the summer so I was making out probably $10 a tank.

Maintenance well if you look past oil changes and fuel filters they are a wash. Same truck and all the maintenance is on the front end, tranfer case, etc, etc. Nobody is smoking injectors and other stuff on a regular basis. The diesel has the potential to be more costly to fix but if it lasts alot longer well then that is just no longer true at all.

Pulling 10K on a regular basis well then the diesel will long term put money in your pocket and I firmly believe that. That is what they are made for!

Smile factor it isn't even close. I hated towing with that wailing gas motor but that is just me.

Well after all he is an Eagles fan! Couldn't resist that!

Nobody talked about longevity which is the secondary reason for a diesel. Towing 10K on a regular basis with the 6.0 and you will smoke a trans and that is $3K. That motor is also done towing that weight at 200K miles. That is another $3K. Now the Dmax and Allison should easily make 300K. Fuel mileage is probably a wash but when I bought my truck in '06 diesel was 30 cents cheaper then gas during the summer so I was making out probably $10 a tank.

Maintenance well if you look past oil changes and fuel filters they are a wash. Same truck and all the maintenance is on the front end, tranfer case, etc, etc. Nobody is smoking injectors and other stuff on a regular basis. The diesel has the potential to be more costly to fix but if it lasts alot longer well then that is just no longer true at all.

Pulling 10K on a regular basis well then the diesel will long term put money in your pocket and I firmly believe that. That is what they are made for!

Smile factor it isn't even close. I hated towing with that wailing gas motor but that is just me.

Well there is no doubt a diesel will last longer towing heavy weight compared to a gasser, but smoking a transmission at 100K is not common place. The 4L80E is a very strong transmission. Heck, that's what GM used for years in the BB and 6.5TD and many of those are well north of 100K with original trannies.

I think both platforms will last a long-time, but the diesel will defiantely be many times more expensive to fix IF something breaks. That being said it appears like the newer LMM's are holding up well with higher miles. Some of the earlier ones had the injector issues, overheating, and leaky seals in the Allison.

I have always looked at it like this as far as economics. If you drive 30K+ a year or tow often, then diesel is the only way to go. You will make up the extra cost in the option thru better mileage and resale. I guess I'm just beating a dead horse though.

No doubt the "smile" factor is much greater with the diesel. I guess that's just an intangible thing you can't really put a price on.

Well when someone EXAGGERATED I must call it BS. Some people must exaggerate to feel better about themselves. Others try to change the point at hand and deflect the attention onto something unrelated to the point at hand. The point (Stay with me) is the 6000#'s. Do you still follow. Sorry you can not stay focused, and sorry that your diesel (which I agree is much better than the gasser) (did you get that?) got insulted. I am a fan of diesel engine. I wanted one, but I realized it was not worth it for me. I used to tow my TT a few times a year but with the addition of children I decided to leave it on a seasonal site for a few years until my children are older. My GAS engine tows fine for what I need. As for someone taking the time to look up and mention me being a 5th grade teacher and being Angry.... I am actually very happy it is summer and I spend my time at the Pool with my boys. Sorry that you must be working and I still get paid and have another month and a half off. Maybe being an Insurance salesman is not rewarding enough for you!

Back to the original question:

I have probably one of the best "controlled" tests.

When I ordered my LMM, the sales manager clicked on the 6.0 gas instead. Apparently it starts with an "L" as well. He was in a hurry and "mis-clicked", if you will. So, my truck was about 2 weeks out from delivery and I went by to check on how much it would be (ordered it before the pricing was fully available) to get the finances finished up. He hands me the build sheet and I paruse it. I kept seeing 6.0 Vortec, but knew this was the "standard" engine. So, I figured I would get to the "options" section and see the LMM listed. Nope. So, I inquire as to where the diesel is listed on the build sheet. His eyes about popped out of his head. He put his hand on his forehead in grief and said, "No! I don't want this truck!"

So, I wasn't in a hurry and the deal was already too good to pass up at flat-invoice. NOBODY was buying the latest Duramax dually for JUST invoice price. I had him re-order and call me when it was close to delivery. The 6.0 truck came in and was put on their lot. My LMM came in and I took delivery without incident. A YEAR LATER, my Dad was looking for a replacement for his 2006 100,000 mile 1500 long-bed ext cab. He was thinking of going to a 2500 since he beats the crap out of his 1/2 tons. I told him we should check into seeing what kind of deal they would make him on the "mistake" dually.

Well, after a few months, he ended up getting it for $32,500 OTD!!! That's less than a similarly equipped 1/2 ton!! Sure, it sat on the lot for a year, but the warranty still applies and it had everything except 4X4, sunroof, and leather. I loaded this (these) truck(s) with all of the nice stuff. DVD, NAV, moving pedals, back-up assist, G80, buckets, etc.

Long story longer - this now means I have a direct comparison between my truck with LMM and my truck with 6.0 Vortec. My boat/trailer/equipment combo is similar in weight to the towing question at hand. It's about 9000 total, depending on how much gas is in the boat. Then you add full fuel in the truck, luggage for a trip, 4 adults (two friends almost always carpool with us to Havasu), ice chests, etc.

I took his truck one time to put some miles on it to get it broke in before he took it over. It was a struggle - by comparison. The LMM breezes up the hills with that load and I usually get 12.5 or so at 72-75. I kept the Vortec at 65-68 and got about 7. Regardless of the mileage, which we all know is night/day - the truck just plain WORKED. I also get nervous running drivetrain that hard.

Even on flat ground, I have used his to compare by just taking the boat to our local lake (17 miles away, all flat roads). Again, the Vortec just doesn't work NEAR as well as the Dmax. There's nothing wrong with the Vortec - it just belongs in lighter applications. Which is why the LMM/LML is offered. And yes, 9-10,000 pounds is still fairly "light" towing, but up/down hills is where safety and convenience comes into play.

So, after direct towing comparision, I whole-heartedly believe the extra $8-10K for the Dmax/Allison option is money WELL spent.

[quote=mmaul1039;3923727] The gasser will never lock into OD, while towing our TT. The DMAX locks in
well sorry but the alison is DESIGNED to lock into tcc in second gear while in tow haul mode. . the 4l80e or even the 6l80-90e do not do that

Well when someone EXAGGERATED I must call it BS. Some people must exaggerate to feel better about themselves. Others try to change the point at hand and deflect the attention onto something unrelated to the point at hand. The point (Stay with me) is the 6000#'s. Do you still follow. Sorry you can not stay focused, and sorry that your diesel (which I agree is much better than the gasser) (did you get that?) got insulted. I am a fan of diesel engine. I wanted one, but I realized it was not worth it for me. I used to tow my TT a few times a year but with the addition of children I decided to leave it on a seasonal site for a few years until my children are older. My GAS engine tows fine for what I need. As for someone taking the time to look up and mention me being a 5th grade teacher and being Angry.... I am actually very happy it is summer and I spend my time at the Pool with my boys. Sorry that you must be working and I still get paid and have another month and a half off. Maybe being an Insurance salesman is not rewarding enough for you!

Show how much you know, you remind of the show are you smarter then a fifth grader every time you put your foot in your mouth lol, I do insurance so I can have a lot more free time, all your comments show how angry you are and my job is much more rewarding on the money side. Remember I am the one who can afford a diesel and the mods, I am actually hanging out at my house today with my wife just finished washing my six figure boat (that I doubt you can afford) so I can go to the lake. I am multimillionaire with over 35,000 acres of property so Insurance does just fine for me. Like I said put up the pink slip for your truck set up the race and we will have ourselves a challenge.

Show how much you know, you remind of the show are you smarter then a fifth grader every time you put your foot in your mouth lol, I do insurance so I can have a lot more free time, all your comments show how angry you are and my job is much more rewarding on the money side. Remember I am the one who can afford a diesel and the mods, I am actually hanging out at my house today with my wife just finished washing my six figure boat (that I doubt you can afford) so I can go to the lake. I am multimillionaire with over 35,000 acres of property so Insurance does just fine for me. Like I said put up the pink slip for your truck set up the race and we will have ourselves a challenge.

Again the reading comprehension needs some work. I never said I was not able to afford the diesel. I said it was not worth it for me and my use. Lets see if you can understand the visual.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmS7a07mXA

wow, thread turned from a pissing match to a whos D^%$ is bigger

wow, thread turned from a pissing match to a whos D^%$ is bigger

dido:banghead:

I see a lot of guys trying to justify their purchase with all kinds of BS.
We buy what we like or can afford and that's it.:D
How many guys who say the diesel tows better, really tow everyday?
Were there trailers back in the ninety's? How did these guys tow with 200hp and 350ft lbs. I guess heavy trailers didn't come out until 2001 when the d max was invented:D

I see a lot of guys trying to justify their purchase with all kinds of BS.
We buy what we like or can afford and that's it.:D
How many guys who say the diesel tows better, really tow everyday?
Were there trailers back in the ninety's? How did these guys tow with 200hp and 350ft lbs. I guess heavy trailers didn't come out until 2001 when the d max was invented:D

Nail on the head.

Well since you have seen what I do go check the garage 2010 Mastercraft X35 loaded with all the bells and whistles price it then call BS. As for the rest of you guys your right about the pissing contest just don't like when people get personal calling people idiots, so I love to get under the skin in return. Joey I can honestly say I tow a lot, before this duramax had a 97 chevy 2500 with 5.7 manual tranny, dam thing did good hauling cattle, hay, tractors, whatever I needed but it doesn't compare to my duramax as far as I am concerned, went diesel never going back to gas. it's investment no doubt but the gas had 165,000 miles on it got 3,500 for it, duramax has 117,000 on it getting 25,000 for it, which is 3,000 less then what I drove it out for when I bought it, got a hell of a deal during the employee pricing!

Well since you have seen what I do go check the garage 2010 Mastercraft X35 loaded with all the bells and whistles price it then call BS. As for the rest of you guys your right about the pissing contest just don't like when people get personal calling people idiots, so I love to get under the skin in return. Joey I can honestly say I tow a lot, before this duramax had a 97 chevy 2500 with 5.7 manual tranny, dam thing did good hauling cattle, hay, tractors, whatever I needed but it doesn't compare to my duramax as far as I am concerned, went diesel never going back to gas. it's investment no doubt but the gas had 165,000 miles on it got 3,500 for it, duramax has 117,000 on it getting 25,000 for it, which is 3,000 less then what I drove it out for when I bought it, got a hell of a deal during the employee pricing!


But how much did you spend on MODS? I paid just over 28,000 for my truck in my sig and I looked at trading it in on a 10 Burb about a month ago. I was offered 20,000 to trade. I put nothing into it except gas. So I drove it for 4 years and it cost me 8500. It does only have 27,000 miles on it and it is garage kept. I guess the only thing we can do is agree to disagree until we meet up and settle this. You believe you are right and I believe I am right. Either way we both have good trucks for what we need. Oh yeah, Will Smith was Funny as hell!

But how much did you spend on MODS? I paid just over 28,000 for my truck in my sig and I looked at trading it in on a 10 Burb about a month ago. I was offered 20,000 to trade. I put nothing into it except gas. So I drove it for 4 years and it cost me 8500. It does only have 27,000 miles on it and it is garage kept. I guess the only thing we can do is agree to disagree until we meet up and settle this. You believe you are right and I believe I am right. Either way we both have good trucks for what we need. Oh yeah, Will Smith was Funny as hell!

Agree to disagree nobody has to read our BS anymore :D

I see a lot of guys trying to justify their purchase with all kinds of BS.
We buy what we like or can afford and that's it.:D
How many guys who say the diesel tows better, really tow everyday?
Were there trailers back in the ninety's? How did these guys tow with 200hp and 350ft lbs. I guess heavy trailers didn't come out until 2001 when the d max was invented:D


Agreed....But we look alot better doing it now..:D

I see a lot of guys trying to justify their purchase with all kinds of BS.
We buy what we like or can afford and that's it.:D
How many guys who say the diesel tows better, really tow everyday?
Were there trailers back in the ninety's? How did these guys tow with 200hp and 350ft lbs. I guess heavy trailers didn't come out until 2001 when the d max was invented:D
It's called evolution. We didn't have computers at one point, either - but here we (you included) are on a forum!

Ok, i'm not going to read all of the 7 pages of this thread but the jist I get is guy is wondering if he should get a gas or diesel. Take it from someone who just went through all this. My first 2500 back in 2004 was a chevy 2500hd 6.0 gas, biggest POS I ever had then went to a LLY, LBZ then LMM. Then after 3 duramax's I must have been on crack for 2 months and bought a denali with the 6.2, nice truck but was SICK I mean sick to my stomach every time i pushed the gas down and went no where. So I sold it and bought another 08 LMM and I cannot be more happy! I really think and this is just me put just any way you look at a diesel takes a diarrhea sh*t on a gas motor in a 2500 truck! So to sum this up if you can afford a diesel get it end of story.

Ok, i'm not going to read all of the 7 pages of this thread but the jist I get is guy is wondering if he should get a gas or diesel. Take it from someone who just went through all this. My first 2500 back in 2004 was a chevy 2500hd 6.0 gas, biggest POS I ever had then went to a LLY, LBZ then LMM. Then after 3 duramax's I must have been on crack for 2 months and bought a denali with the 6.2, nice truck but was SICK I mean sick to my stomach every time i pushed the gas down and went no where. So I sold it and bought another 08 LMM and I cannot be more happy! I really think and this is just me put just any way you look at a diesel takes a diarrhea sh*t on a gas motor in a 2500 truck! So to sum this up if you can afford a diesel get it end of story.
Good post. I will add - again - that the 6.0 and 6.2 are GREAT motors. For the right application, that is. For the guy that wants to have a 6000+ pound truck, have it accelerate REALLY well, AND be able to tow with it - the diesel is the right application.

Again, my Dad's dually has the 6.0 and it needs help. My Mom's '04 Escalade has the 345hp 6.2 and it's a dog. My wife's '04 Yukon 5.3 will run rings around it. BUT, in all fairness, the Escalade is an AWD model, so there is the extra weight and parasitic HP loss of the Xfer case and 2nd diff.

Ok, i'm not going to read all of the 7 pages of this thread but the jist I get is guy is wondering if he should get a gas or diesel. Take it from someone who just went through all this. My first 2500 back in 2004 was a chevy 2500hd 6.0 gas, biggest POS I ever had then went to a LLY, LBZ then LMM. Then after 3 duramax's I must have been on crack for 2 months and bought a denali with the 6.2, nice truck but was SICK I mean sick to my stomach every time i pushed the gas down and went no where. So I sold it and bought another 08 LMM and I cannot be more happy! I really think and this is just me put just any way you look at a diesel takes a diarrhea sh*t on a gas motor in a 2500 truck! So to sum this up if you can afford a diesel get it end of story.

Wow...You hate the Denali too???
I bought one for my wife and it was also a huge mistake. The 6.2/6 speed in that thing is a total POS. My wife enjoys my LBZ way more than she likes the Denali.

As far as the OP is concerned, if you can afford the diesel and plan on keeping it for awhile, go for it. I went through 2 6.0 gassers and although they ran very well, I decided to try the diesel and I'm glad I did.

buy what you can afford, to do what you need to do......... it really is that simple. The torque numbers do not lie, they are what they are.......

My 6liter and the 6 speed transmission are great and do a great job....... I love my gasser Burb, but there is no comparison to the toque of a diesel.

Different strokes for different folks, and you need to get what you can comfortably afford at the time.

My first Camper was an 8-9000 POS and i pulled it with a 95 Burb 1500 5.3....... Got it done...... times have changed and my situation has changed.....

If you do a lot of towing..... iut really is buy as much as you can afford, if you can afford diesel, then get diesel .......... no question.

OP.....just ask yourself.....what do you WANT? That should tell you all you need to know. You are on this forum for a reason and you are asking yourself this question for a reason.

I don't think anyone here has buyers remorse for buying a diesel, but I think many have remorse over convincing themselves they only "needed" the gas.

Pulling everyday, or 5 times a year, who cares.

Do you want a mustang with a 6cyl, or do you want the GT v8?

(no I wouldn't own a mustang, so don't go there.....just an analogy)

The only regrets I've ever had buying anything is where I tried to talk myself out of what I wanted and went with it.