Let me start by filling out the checklist:

1. Describe the problem you are having in detail: Truck will not start. Not getting any fuel to the injhectors.

2. Year of truck/engine.1994
3. Odometer reading (indicate miles or kilometers).250,000 miles
4. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump DS4
5. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500
6. Do you have an EGR on the engine (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/#)? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) It has an F
7. Air Filter (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/#) condition (visual check). Decent
8. Fuel filter (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/#) condition (freshly changed, mileage since changed). New
9. Location of PMD/FSD (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39436)? Stock Location
9a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from which vendor).
9b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire. on the pump. Clean.
10. Outside Temperature (C or F). 97°F

11. Service Engine Light while running? off
11a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: yes
12.Have you scanned for engine codes? yes
12a. List exact results on engine codes (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/dtc.php).
62 73
13. Condition of Battery terminals new batteries and connectors
14. Known condition and age of Batteries. new
14a. Are batteries a matched set of same age? yes
15. Condition of Major Grounds (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157085) cleaned and tightend

16. Does engine crank, or "turn over"? yes
16a. Does engine start and run? no
17. If engine does not start- Crack injector line (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2188140#post2188140): do you have fuel? no
18. Does your Wait To Start light come on? I Assume thats the same as the glow plugs light? If so then yes if not then no.
18a.Number of seconds WTS light is lit. The glow plugs light is on between 2-5 seconds.
19. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer). Tack is jumpy when starting

20. Are you experiencing Stalling? when it ran yes
20a. Describe the event. When it ran it would run for about a half an hour then stop. Then several hours later it would run for less than half and hour, then less and less untill it dosent run at all now.
20b. Do you notice loss of dash or instruments?no
21. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions.none
22. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now? no
23. Lift pump test (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39350) - Describe results.when it ran it worked, pluss its a new pump.

24. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? not sure
25. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? no
26. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? yes when it started having problems it got harder and harder to crank untill I could crank it for a minute or so and get it to sputter.
27. Have you used the block heater? Does it affect engine starting? (only try for starting problems). havent tried but its a hundred degrees out, pluss it wouldnt have any effect on the lack of fuel to the injectors.
28. Are all glow plugs in proper working order (http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39182)? yes

29. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? No
30. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? no
31. Turbo check out (http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39368) - Pass/Fail didnt get a chance to check when it ran
32. Indicate fuel that you are using: standard pump diesel
32a. If running Veggie Oil fuel setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade or packaged system).
33. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list. no
34. Upon unscrewing fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? no
35. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? no
36. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better.


OK now with that being said. I just finished installing a new injector pump with a new PMD. It has a new CPS and a new lift pump that is working properly. The new IP didnt change the symptoms at all. But something that I havent noticed before is that I can crank it for a few seconds and it cranks at normal speed, but when the Oil pressure comes up it starts to cranks slower and slower. The batteries and cables are all brand new.

The PMD is in the stock location but the IP is new and it has never run so its not a PMD overheating problem. I even broke down and took it to the dealer to diagnose before I changed the IP and all they said was that it was the IP. I have no idea what to check next....It seems to be an electrical problem but I dont know what to check at this point.. Does anybody have any ideas? I am totally at a loss here and my dealer is just about worthless. Ill check anythig at this point. I did a search and really didnt find anything other than what I have already done. Any body have any obscure things that even MIGHT be wrong that I can look into?

Thanks,

Justin

Try to put 12V direct source to the Lift Pump.

My guess is that the OPS is bad. When OPS is bad, the LP won't run after cranking. Hence, there is no LP to prime your system after you change the IP.

You have to bleed the system also.

Ill put a source straight to it. Ive got all the injector lines loose to bleed the system, thats how I do it on my excavators and bulldozers, is there anything else I need to do besides that?

Ill report back in a few once I put a battery to the LP.

Put a battery to the LP and tried to bleed the system. Still not getting any fuel to the injectors. Turned the T-handle to check the LP and it flooded my driveway so its pushing plenty of fuel.

Now you need to crank when the LP is running. Hopefully, it will start since IP does not have to pull the fuel from the tank.

The LP will push the fuel to the IP. The IP will be the one who push the fuel to the injectors. So IP needs to work to continue bleeding.

Yeah thats what i did, I guess I should have been a little more descriptive. I hooked up the battery to the LP and turned the truck over for about thirty or fourty seconds with the injector lines loose and still didnt get so much as a drop of fuel to the injectors. Is there anything else that controlls the IP? I really dont think that the IP and PMD I put on are bad being that they are factory new. Ive traced down all the connecting wires and they are all undamaged. The dealership told me not to even bring it back in because they didnt know where else to go with it except to put another IP on it...

What is the best way to check and see if the IP is getting the propper voltage? All I can think of is that for some reason its not getting the power it should be getting.

When you turn the key "on", do you hear the lift pump? Do you get fuel to the bleeder valve at the water pump?

I thought I heard the pump kick on when I turned the key but I hooked it straight to a battery just in case. I opened up the T- valve and got plenty of fuel so the IP is definatly getting fuel its just not pushing it to the injectors.

I thought I heard the pump kick on when I turned the key but I hooked it straight to a battery just in case. I opened up the T- valve and got plenty of fuel so the IP is definatly getting fuel its just not pushing it to the injectors.

Mine is an 86 with a 6.2 and although yours is much newer and has a different set up mine has the same trouble with the IP not getting fuel to the injectors. Please post in the thread if you ever figure out what it is. I know how frustrating this is. Thanks and good luck!

check and see if you got power to the shutoff solenoid or maybe pull off and see if the plunger moving if it not open in not going let fuel in

So i take it your old IP did.nt deliver fuel to the injectors,and the new ip dont either?

What where the symptoms/problems you had to start with?

I dont have a very long history of symptoms because I just bought the truck. It was for sale out of town and I went to get it with a trailer. I test drove it for an hour and it drove great with no problems. I got it home and started it up and after about fourty five minutes it stalled out. I thought it was out of fuel so I went and got some diesel and came back the next day to drive it again. I put 5 gallons in the tank and it drove fine for a half hour or so. It stalled after a half hour for the next few days untill it wouldnt start at all. Once in a while I could crank it for several minutes and it would start and run for a few minutes but it wouldnt get above 2500 rpms or so. Everybody said it sounded like a PMD and I couldnt agree more so I put a new PMD on it. Went ahead and did a lift pump at the same time. No change in the symptoms. I took it to the dealer to get their opinion and they kept it for a week and basically said they didnt know what the problem was so it must be the IP. I couldnt think of anything else to do so I went ahead and put the new IP on it. The IP I bought came with another new PMD and when I got it on nothing has changed. I put a new Crankshaft Position Censor on it when I did the IP just for good measure and that didnt do any god either. The only thing that I can think of that would be wrong at this point is the OPS and I have the LP straight wired to a battery so that shouldt have any effect.

Really dont know what to do at this point. I made sure I blead all the air out of the fuel lines coming into the IP and checked the fuel cutoff solenoid to make sure it works. SO I am very sure the IP is getting fuel but unless I managed to get a faulty IP I am overlooking something. I really doubt the IP is bad and I really dont want to go through returning this one and puting a new one on just to find out something else is wrong. Is there anything else that controls the fuel system in these trucks??

Then it is fairly safe to say that the IP itself was/is not the problem.
Fuel supply seems good too,altough a Pressure test should be done to make sure.7+ psi engine off.

Pull the hose off the IP inlet barb and see if you do get good flow there.(it has happened before that the supply hose was collapsed inside blocking more or less the flow)

If that checks out OK,then its got to be electrical.
Pull and check all fuses,
See if you got power to the ESO solenoid while cranking.
If not,then it could be a faulty ign switch.

Also check the 16 pin connector behind the F filter for corrosion and or bad wiring(broke inside the insulation) Engine harnass overall condition might be suspect,it seen a lot of miles after all.

I noticed you got 2 codes,1 is tranny,other one is for boost sensor.
They could be historic codes,delete them.They will reset if there is a current problem.IMO,neither will cause a no start.

How about the optical sensor. I don't want to jump and assume it was new with the pump (although I highly suspect that you got a new optic sensor already installed in the pump). And if that's the case how about the filter harness. If you haven't removed the filter harness, I'd yank that out of the circuit for testing purposes at least, to make sure that isn't interrupting the optic sensor signal.

Just some other ideas, in addition to everything that Bison just posted.

Don.

How about the optical sensor. I don't want to jump and assume it was new with the pump (although I highly suspect that you got a new optic sensor already installed in the pump). And if that's the case how about the filter harness. If you haven't removed the filter harness, I'd yank that out of the circuit for testing purposes at least, to make sure that isn't interrupting the optic sensor signal.

Just some other ideas, in addition to everything that Bison just posted.

Don..

It did'nt cross my mind,You made a very valid point there.

Pull the ecm fuses and clean them off with a little sand paper. Sounds silly, but the minor oxidation on the fuse spades can cause trouble.

If you've got fuel going the IP, it's not the optic sensor or the lift pump. The problem sounds electrical. The problem can be anywhere between the batteries and the IP....there could also be a bad ground connection (not just the ground connections from the batteries). Check to see that you're getting current to where you're supposed to be getting current. Check the ground connections at the passenger near/at the tranny dipstick tube mounting. The GP controller is grounded in that area, as is the ECM. There's also a copper braided ground wire that goes from the block to the frame near the starter. If it's still the original strap, it's probably dangling on one side. These trucks are a little particular as far as their electrical systems are concerned.

Pull the ecm fuses and clean them off with a little sand paper. Sounds silly, but the minor oxidation on the fuse spades can cause trouble.

If you've got fuel going the IP, it's not the optic sensor or the lift pump. The problem sounds electrical. The problem can be anywhere between the batteries and the IP....there could also be a bad ground connection (not just the ground connections from the batteries). Check to see that you're getting current to where you're supposed to be getting current. Check the ground connections at the passenger near/at the tranny dipstick tube mounting. The GP controller is grounded in that area, as is the ECM. There's also a copper braided ground wire that goes from the block to the frame near the starter. If it's still the original strap, it's probably dangling on one side. These trucks are a little particular as far as their electrical systems are concerned.

I definitely agree with the potential electrical problems. They are absolutely worth checking, because if not now, they could always cause problems later. But it still could be the optic sensor. The ECU needs this input to fire at the right time, and adjust timing. Fuel at the IP (not at the injectors) is not related to the optic sensor.

Don.

Its been a crazy week at work and I think every other single piece ov equipment I own has decided to break down so I havent had any time to work on the truck untill this afternoon.

I pulled the inlet hose to the IP and straight wired the LP and I got plenty of fuel.

Pulled all the fuses to check them and sanded a little bit of oxidation off a few of them.

Unplugged all the connections behind the manifold and checked the pins (one at a time mind you I didnt get anything crossed)

And then I got on the truck and turned the key and.......a hear a little buzzing noize that sounds like it is coming from behind the glove box then EVERYTHING dies! I dont have power to anything, not even the headlights or the radio. So I guess I pretty much narrowed it down that the problem has been electrical this entire time but......NOW WHAT???!!

I checked all the fuses under the steering column again (its the only fuse panel I could find but all of my dodge trucks have 2 so maybe Im missing one)

Checked the batteries and they are both good.

So now what do I check? Are there more fuses somewhere else, is there a main breaker that might have tripped, what might have been the buzzing behind the glove box?

At this point, you may want to check for bare cables. I hope the ECM is not burnt.

yeah the ecm was my first concern as well. This truck was used as a road plow/salt truck up north so it might be a cable that has rusted through and started dangling around causing problems. I am going to take a better look at it in the morning. Anybody know what an ECM costs just in case?

You may have a fuse box underhood, driver side, on the inner fender

I think you should remove and clean all the grounds especially the one on the back of the intake manifold. You had to have removed it to replace the IP but that doesn't mean its clean. Also check the ones on the frame and firewall and the ones going to the batteries from intake. 94 shouldn't have a fuse box under the hood, so that could be ruled out. There should be a junction block or something somewhere with some fusible links going to or from it. Perhaps there is a bad connection there or melted fuse link.

In addition to all the ground, double check your battery connections, both positive and negative. All must be clean and tight. Not sure where the 94's grab their power from for all of the body feeds, but if it's right from the battery, or the starter, check that wire connection. It must goto a junction block somewhere, so make sure it is clean and tight too.

Don.

Ok the saga continues. Went out to the truck today to try to chase down my problem... checked the batteries for full charge and put them back in the truck. Turned the key and I have gauge lights now but no radio. When I turn the key backwards to accesory the radio comes on and the ac panel goes off. When I try to crank the truck the gauges dump to dump full end stop but the starter dosent engage. I am going to have my wife hit the key tonight or tommarow while I put a meter on the starter to see if its getting an juice. The starter was just replace first thing when i got the truck so i doubt its getting any power. I'm thinking bad ignition switch, but would that have caused my no fuel problem? How do I check if the IP is getting power? wich connector to I check and what kind of voltage do I look for?

Probably Ignition Switch?

I think it is a ignition switch, cuz it happen to me one when my truck was stuck in 2nd gear, i then trace down the problem to the ignition switch and replace it, after replace the new ignition switch i bough from AutoZone everything seem fine except the radio is not working and if I turn the key backward then the radio is working but everything else is not work, cant even start the engine either.then i return the Switch and order the AC Delco from rockauto amd voilaa, everything was back to normal. that is kinda weird but i just throw something on for ya to look at. Hope it help

Ok found the wiring problem. It was one of the cables that goes to the battery was bare in one little place where it rubbed the frame and was causing problems. Everything seems to be working now with no problems but the truck still wont start. The eso is getting 12 volts , and just for good measure I took it off and watched it pop open when I turned the key.

The optic sensor is only getting 5 volts though, I'm not sure if thats the propper voltage or if I am losing power somewhere?

Try starting it with the OS disconnected,could be the OS filter is wacko
Check for power to the ESO while starting,if no power,IGN switch funky.

5 volts to the OS is normal. Many of the engine sensors only use a 5v reference signal from the ECU, as opposed to full battery voltage. The key is what signal is the OS outputting while cranking, but you need an oscilloscope to see that.

Don.

Hello,

I hate to jump into this late but my 96 is having similar symptoms, I have fuel to the IP but nothing comes out IP to any of the injectors. I replaced the PMD with remote unit, still no start. I took my fuel shutoff solenoid and it doesn't move when key turned on, so I took solenoid off and hooked it directly to spare 12v battery to test, and it worked fine so I assume its not getting a signal from the ECU.

Does this mean the ignition switch is bad?

I get a bunch of codes including P0601 which is bad memory in ECU?

How can the iginition switch be related to no power to the fuel shutoff solenoid?

Thanks,
Steve

Check the power wire going to the fuel solenoid... do you get 12v there? Check the fuses in the under fuse center. There is a 20a fuel solenoid fuse which is where the power feed for that solenoid come from... is it good?

When you turn on your ignition, do you get a check engine light, WTS light? Do the radio, and heater fans work?

Don.

Ive got 12 V from the shutoff solenoid, the radio and fans both work, Im sort of confused as to where that fuse is. You say its in the under fuse center? is there a fuse box other than the one next to the parking brake? All of the fuses int eh fuse box are good but if there are fuses somewhere else I havent checked them yet.

I called a local diesel mechanic that i have a ton of dood refrences from and went through everything that I checked and he said his diagnoses would be the pump. SO maybe I got a bad pump and all of this has been for nothing.... I am going to take it off tonight and send it to get tested and go from there.

On a side note I got started taking the pump off yesterday afternoon and took the upper plenum off. Went to the hardware store really quick and by the time I got back one of our famous summer storms blew up and filled the motor full of water. I know I know I should have closed the hood but it was sunny out and I didnt think about it at the time. To blow the water out of the cylenders in a gas motor I always just pull the spark plugs, do you pull the injectors in a diesel or the glow plugs? Wichever one it is i think I will replace them while I wait for my IP to get back from testing.

Hello,

I hate to jump into this late but my 96 is having similar symptoms, I have fuel to the IP but nothing comes out IP to any of the injectors. I replaced the PMD with remote unit, still no start. I took my fuel shutoff solenoid and it doesn't move when key turned on, so I took solenoid off and hooked it directly to spare 12v battery to test, and it worked fine so I assume its not getting a signal from the ECU.

Does this mean the ignition switch is bad?

I get a bunch of codes including P0601 which is bad memory in ECU?

How can the iginition switch be related to no power to the fuel shutoff solenoid?

Thanks,
Stevewhat is the rest of your bunch of codes?
Did you check the fuses ,grounds?

Ive got 12 V from the shutoff solenoid, the radio and fans both work, Im sort of confused as to where that fuse is. You say its in the under fuse center? is there a fuse box other than the one next to the parking brake? All of the fuses int eh fuse box are good but if there are fuses somewhere else I havent checked them yet.

I called a local diesel mechanic that i have a ton of dood refrences from and went through everything that I checked and he said his diagnoses would be the pump. SO maybe I got a bad pump and all of this has been for nothing.... I am going to take it off tonight and send it to get tested and go from there.

On a side note I got started taking the pump off yesterday afternoon and took the upper plenum off. Went to the hardware store really quick and by the time I got back one of our famous summer storms blew up and filled the motor full of water. I know I know I should have closed the hood but it was sunny out and I didnt think about it at the time. To blow the water out of the cylenders in a gas motor I always just pull the spark plugs, do you pull the injectors in a diesel or the glow plugs? Wichever one it is i think I will replace them while I wait for my IP to get back from testing.Bummer, pull the plugs.

You should've tried to see if you got power at the ESO while starting ,and make sure the ESO worked before ripping the IP out

IP isnt out of the truck yet. just the manifold. Ill try to see if the eso gets power when I crank it. Ill pull the plugs first and blow the water out.

IP isnt out of the truck yet. just the manifold. Ill try to see if the eso gets power when I crank it. Ill pull the plugs first and blow the water out.Make sure the thing operates.

Ive got 12 V from the shutoff solenoid, the radio and fans both work, Im sort of confused as to where that fuse is. You say its in the under fuse center? is there a fuse box other than the one next to the parking brake? All of the fuses int eh fuse box are good but if there are fuses somewhere else I havent checked them yet.

I called a local diesel mechanic that i have a ton of dood refrences from and went through everything that I checked and he said his diagnoses would be the pump. SO maybe I got a bad pump and all of this has been for nothing.... I am going to take it off tonight and send it to get tested and go from there.

On a side note I got started taking the pump off yesterday afternoon and took the upper plenum off. Went to the hardware store really quick and by the time I got back one of our famous summer storms blew up and filled the motor full of water. I know I know I should have closed the hood but it was sunny out and I didnt think about it at the time. To blow the water out of the cylenders in a gas motor I always just pull the spark plugs, do you pull the injectors in a diesel or the glow plugs? Wichever one it is i think I will replace them while I wait for my IP to get back from testing.

If the '94's are like the '96's theres an underhood fuse center by the power brake booster.

94's dont have an underhood fuse box.