In your opinion with reasons stated, what do you think is best programmer on the market? Diablo, Hypertech, Superchips or Other?


Please list your programmer choice and why you think so, whether based on what you have heard or experience or what you have read. Thanks

Also, for everday, oomph off the line, not racing, which one would you guys recommend. Some I see make the most HP/TQ way up on the RPM scale. Looking for something that adds a good chunk between 1500 and 2000.





HK

The best "programmer" or tuner (IMO) is without a doubt the Quadzilla -- most horsepower and torque, lowest EGTs, raises RPM limit, eliminates top speed limiter, and provides for speedometer recalibration. No tuner (that I am aware of) provides much of a performance increase below 1800 RPM. From 1,800 RPM to 4,000 the difference is *unreal*.


If you were also refering to modules then the Juice (or Juice w/ Attitude) is favored by many -- at least amongst those with the Allison. The Juice (I have heard) has the most low-end torque and has internal logic to go easy on your Allison transmission if/when it slips.


Regardless of which product you choose, many will tell you that a stock Allison will hold 110 additional horsepower before you need to modify it.

Well I was planning on running just a programmer for now and trying to decide which one to run. Have heard good things and bad things about all of them so I was just curious.

I can speak of the Quad-135 tuner, although I have only ever run it in the 110 setting (I didn't care much for the 70 & 90 settings). I can tell you in the 110 setting, it's night and day difference, plus an extra 1MPG or so in the city! It's hard to believe until you have one and use it for yourself, then you'll see.


I recently had to take mine off for a trip to the stealer and holy $hit what a difference!


I also don't have gauges and have not made any other performance modification (yet). I plan to get an AFE-2, 4" exhaust, and gauge set rather soon I hope. I don't tow anything, and there aren't too many grades around here to go up, so I am not worried about the EGT's. Once I get gauges, I'll try the 135 setting.


The only negatives I would say are the 2000rpm surge and a little extra injector noise/rattling. It's worth it for the power gain.


I bought mine from Van Massey a while back in a group buy Mike setup. I would recommend buying from Van.


Tim

I have a 70HP tune from Street and Performance electronics in North Little Rock, AR. It too raised shift points, rev limiter, no top speed limiter and recalobrated for the 285's. It along with an S&P intake I can white smoke the 285's through 2nd (never tried for 3rd). I have also never tried to time it but it will run pretty stout.

I have a 70HP tune from Street and Performance electronics in North Little Rock, AR. It too raised shift points, rev limiter, no top speed limiter and recalobrated for the 285's. It along with an S&P intake I can white smoke the 285's through 2nd (never tried for 3rd). I have also never tried to time it but it will run pretty stout.


Are you sure it raised the shift points? If it did it would be the first one I have heard of to do this. What rpm does it shift at?

I have yet to check cuz normally I'm going to quick that I'm not looking. I didn't change it, I took it to the guys at S&P sence they are just right down the road and they did it all at the shop with there programmer that they have developed.

Also what is the stock rev limiter set at? I hit well over 4grand one night and it kinda scared me.

IIRC, I think it is 4400 on a downshift, but the Allison will upshift at 3200.

Then yes it was raised cuz it shifts higher than 3200 and I saw over 4grand while under power (stuck it in 1st tires broke real quick).

Tank


I don't believe a word you are saying. 70 hp will not smoke the tires through second and the shift speeds cannot be recalibrated and thats a fact. Fess up.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Im with mike..........signed and mailed my wavier

Also, for everday, oomph off the line, not racing, which one would you guys recommend. Some I see make the most HP/TQ way up on the RPM scale. Looking for something that adds a good chunk between 1500 and 2000.


HK





I've only tried the Bullydog Power Pup 155hp and the Juice 90hp. The Juice made the truck pull stronger from lower RPM's, the Powerpup made no difference until you got to about 1900 or 2000.


FWIW, stay tuned, Nick will have a review of the new Banks Six-Gun very soon.. If their dyno charts are a good indication it should have the best low RPM power out there by quite a large margin. Another fellow has already tried it but hasn't compared it to other chips out there.

I agree with Mike L. & SDaver on the point about smoking the tires, at least if your doing it from a standstill on dry pavement. I'm not saying you didn't do it, just that you're putting down a lot more than 70 ponies to achieve that feat with good rubber.


I've never heard of Street and Performance Electronics before. Are they reselling someone else's tuner, or are they doing something on thier own?

Im with mike..........signed and mailed my wavier


sdaver-----http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


And i thought i was going to be the first http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif Drat!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I agree with Mike L. & SDaver on the point about smoking the tires, at least if your doing it from a standstill on dry pavement. I'm not saying you didn't do it, just that you're putting down a lot more than 70 ponies to achieve that feat with good rubber.


I've never heard of Street and Performance Electronics before. Are they reselling someone else's tuner, or are they doing something on thier own?





They R&D all of their own products, you can even watch them manufacture your products right there. And when left in Drive it will spin the tires real quick through first then hit hard and bog in 2nd until it catches up. Atleast thats how its done it everytime so far. It doesn't even have to try to spin them in 1st(when i drop it down), it will just wind them up real quick. The shifts points may not be higher but they told me that was one thing they changed, and I know it has no top speed limiter, tested that one. They also have a tech. that has gone off to learn all there is to know about the allison so they do know what they are doing. Keep in mind I also have an intake too. I am fairly new to all of this but this is what I have been told and experienced in my truck.

I guess Joe Webb at Suncoast better watch out when that tech gets out of Allison school and learns everything there is to know.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Just when you thought you new everything there was to no about programmers some guy named Tank from the back woods of Arkansas teaches you something new. Things that make you go hmmmmm? Edited by: Bronco

Tank


I do not want to make fun of you. I believe that your installed program is giving you some real seat of the pants performance. In reality, 70 hp will not kight the tires. I am running a TTS experimental program that is somewhere between 80-100 hp. I can spin the tires mildly(not light them up) on the 1-2 shift. I also have stock tires. You have 285s which are 2 inches taller which defeats you tire lighting capabilitys. I drive a lot of fast trucks, and what you are telling me is your 70hp program out does the Edge hot juice and TTS 120. I cannot believe this. Just stating facts, not flaming


regards, mike

Hey Mac . . . I'm finally back . . . maybe for good now.


I'm sure all the programmers are pretty good by now. I'm thinking it's a matter of preference. Don't believe all the stuff you hear on these forums, lots of bs being spread around by loyalists to given brands, etc. You can sort thru the truthful ones pretty easy. Then try them out. I'm not loyal . . . if one is better I'd switch. In fact, my son's Ford 6.0 is very nice, gave me some future dreams. I know that's a bad word in this forum, but really, if you dirve it for a while . . . oh well.


I thought long about which way to go with and even had the opportunity to run an orignal 90 hp Edge for two weeks last year.


I settled on the Quad-135 which I just put on this Saturday. It more than met my expectations for power and torque. I honestly was not expecting that kind of performance gain. I had been using Hypertech Power programmers on "street" gasoline engines for many years and figured that type of gain was in order. I was really wrong.

As soon as I put it on I eliminated the speed limiter and reprogrammed for my slightly larger tire size. I started at Level-3 (110 hp) and quite honestly I was shocked and how this woke up the beast. I had previously Installed the Banks 4" exhaust and am currently running a K&N with thoughts of changing the intake to completely aftermarket. (I took the Amsoil off).

Anyway . . . The truck is truly quick now, I just love the torque pull and how it sets you back in the seat. Just like my "built" Olds 455 did many years ago. I find myself stopping on country roads and and getting on the hammer from a dead stop, but knowing full well that that my goal is to train the tranny. Hah . . . I'm having fun now . . .

In fact, this is about the most fun I've had with the truck. I can't wait to try the Level-4 135 hp mode. Ally learn quickly.

My initial observations are:

1 -- Very easy install, just like the Hypertech Power Programmers used to be, takes about 10-min of pushing buttons on the programmer and letting it load.

2 -- Throttle response is now more like a gasoline engine. I always thought the D-max had a lazy feel to the throttle. Certainly not anymore, feels like it should and throttle position is what you would normally expect.

3 -- Even depressing the throttle 1/2 way and you have a rocket. The claims that the Quad box does not come alive at lower rpms is really not the case at all. It's very resonsive on my daily commute, right from the get-go. In fact, they did a nice job, because I would not want it more responsive. In the L3- 110 hp commuting with tow-haul on it's a little bit touchy.

4 -- I will undoubtedly need new tires every year now, unless my right foot can be re-trained (probably hopeless).

5 -- Be careful on wet or dry roads at any speed. It can bust loose real easy. Lots of tire spin.

6 -- I will need therapy (mental and physical) to get my right foot reprogrammed. Quad, this was not mentioned in the disclaimer.

7 -- As far as mileage gains . . . that's a joke. My right foot will never allow that to happen. It may well be possible, but i did not buy this to get a mileage increase.

8-- 4 days later and the tranny is getting better each day. I can visualize Suncoast in my future now.

9 -- This weekend after Ally gets with the program starts to react favorably to my (foot) foreplay, I'll give her the L4 - 135 hp mode to think about.

I'm loving it . . .


__________________
Edited by: Trader Jack

Ok I see you arent making fun of me, and you are probobly right, but why try to crack on a programmer that you, and no one specific mind you, have used. Have any of you ever heard of the Helix Power Tower for gassers? This is the same company that makes the power tower. And I do feal sorry for a few of you trying to make fun of me for stating what I have done in my truck, I am new to the site and probly dont know as much as a lot of you, but shouldn't you try to help and be constructive. Have I stated that it was the best and that in no way I was wrong? No I haven't! And I also stated that it does bog in 2nd when it hits, I have to stay in the throttle for it to keep spinning, and unless it just happens to hit hard enough to make the truck jerk and then bog the motor in 1st gear than I do believe it is in second, because first is no problem (and yes its got the G80). I'm not trying to act like I know all, I am just stating what has been done in my truck.

Tank


You just need to meet up with some of the guys and get a ride in their trucks. or even drive them if they let you. You may have a great product in your program; we are not familiar with it and that casts a shadow on that product till we know more. I am fortunate that i get to drive a lot of wonderfull trucks that belong to a lot of our board members. I drive Fords and Dodges too that are programmed sometimes to extreme. I know what lights up tires, i know what it is to jump on one of these trucks and head for the guard rail and you cannot straighten it out. Don't take any of this stuff to heart, keep posting, keep us informed on your program and mods. When you meet up with someone else with mods like yours, you will be able to compare and we want to hear about it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

I got to drive the bosses truck one day, but its nothing for comparison (even more power). Its a 7.3 with 3stage comp., turbo, intake, exhaust. It will run hard.

Here is the S&P web site. http://www.streetandperformanceelectronics.com/lead.htm (http://www.streetandperformanceelectronics.com/lead.htm)

Tank,


You mentioned you can do burn outs. I am curious how it performs in other situations. Have you ever towed with it? Does it have any surging or other behavior problems/ How's your fuel milage? Throttle response? Daily driving?


Any more details would be greatly appreciated.

I got to drive the bosses truck one day, but its nothing for comparison (even more power). Its a 7.3 with 3stage comp., turbo, intake, exhaust. It will run hard.





If you think any non-drug inhaling 7.3 runs hard then your truck is a dog.





BTW my truck only spins the tires in the top of first right before it shifts, then it never bogs it just turns them harder until I am either in the ditch or I let out.


I would only question you because I do know who builds power tower and I know how much of a gain they don't give on a dyno. I think it is fine to be happy with what you have, but you are in far left field. Get a reality check and tell everyone you are happy, but cut the crap.








Quad

Depending on the tuner used (Quad 215 for example) my truck will sing the speedo past 55mph with either my 265's or 285's. I don't typically do this with the 285's as I'm trying to keep some trad on them.





Gotta agree with Quad on the 7.3. VERY seldom does one legitimately cross 300RWHP without the aid of a spray or some MAJOR work...

Daily driving it's great, tranny acts fine in normal driving and doesn't surge. Haven't pulled anything over about #4000 yet so I haven't tested the towing. Throttle response is better than stock a good bit. Mileage has gone up, but only when I keep my foot out of it. And the mods to the 7.3 is all I could pull out of my boss, he wouldn't give me any details. Think what you want but that 7.3 will spin tires with no breaks from a dead stop, both of them, and it doesn't just churp them either it will roast them.

Think what you want but that 7.3 will spin tires with no breaks from a dead stop, both of them, and it doesn't just churp them either it will roast them.


I had a set of tires like that once! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

Tank,


Are you are lighting them up on gravel or dirt?


Got any dino charts for that "chip"?

Tank


i just got rid of a '01 PSD with a TTS Extreme program. My Duramax with Steve Coles baby program would make my PSD cry.

First off it isn't a "chip" ( I didn't know how to better put it cuz they have the programer at the shop and did it there, its cheaper that way) and last time I checked "dino" was a dinosour on a cartoon. Now if you were refering to a Dyno, then no I don't because I don't know of any here in central AR. And no it wasn't on gravel or dirt, just good ole asphalt. Mike I understand what your saying but this isn't just a programed 7.3. I know the tuner is a 3 stage 150HP, the exhaust is a complete 4", but I can't remember the brand of the intake. He never told me what was done to the turbo just that it was modified, I'm guessing housing and wastegate. Edited by: Tank

If any one would like dyno sheets on quad or bully dog i have run all in a 2004 dmax. on a dyno (the same dyno as the dfw dyno day) Edited by: CYCLONE

If any one would like dyno sheets on quad or bully dog i have run all in a 2004 dmax. on a dyno (the same dyno as the dfw dyno day)


Could you e-mail me the sheets on the Quad. I havn't been to a dyno yet, plus I'm about to upgrade, and would be very interested in the 135, 165, and 215 rwhpEdited by: Amric

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifTank


What i am trying to tell you might get you fired. A Duramax with a TTS program will smoke your bosses 7.3. Even if he is hard core. Dare to try Tank. I could send you something that will knock your socks off. And get you fired.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Go ahead Mike, I'd love to see it. I wont get fired, he's a HP junky, i.e. 800HP nascar motor in a 67 mustang conv. He loves anything high HP.

Tank


sorry about the laughing face next to your name, i somehow lost control of him. I will have to complain to Nick. I think i know what Nick will tell me, so maybe i won't complain.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Don't worry about it, I seem to be getting a lot of that lately.

Tank,


I am curious as to why you can burn out in 1rst. and then bog into second? It dosn't add up. The gears are so close on the Ally. Have you changed the rear gears? Is the converter slipping like hell? At what speed is the truck rolling when it shifts into second? What's uphttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif

It bogs when it hits, if I keep in it it will catch up.

Quad wrote: I would only question you because I do know who builds power tower and I know how much of a gain they don't give on a dyno.


The explanation of how that thing is supposed to work seems like complete BS to me. Making claims about how well it works are one thing, but to go and add a buncha scientific-sounding "explanations" is just outrageous.


About the same as the spark plug wires and plugs they sell that "add 6 HP."

Tank,


I am curious as to why you can burn out in 1rst. and then bog into second? It dosn't add up. The gears are so close on the Ally. Have you changed the rear gears? Is the converter slipping like hell? At what speed is the truck rolling when it shifts into second? What's uphttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif





Mine does this too. It spins good in first, then shifts and stops spinning, then starts spinning again in 2nd. I think there are two reasons. Reason 1: It shifts too soft. Reason 2: I loose too much boost during the shift, and it won't spin again until the boost comes back up.

Amric are you spinning those H2's? Must be quite a sight. Might just have to break down and get me a programmer...can't let the hooligan in me get out with all this snow on the ground, bike is tucked away..no wheelies..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


Mike

That's what an extra 135rwhp will do for ya. It's so easy to get addicted, I'm already putting together my game plan for more HP.

Amric


With your mods and tires, i believe something is spinning and it isn't horsepower related. You would be lucky to get a chirp on the 1-2 shift.

Well, I can spin them at will in 1st gear, so I guess all tuners are not made the same. The funny thing is I CAN'T spin them during the 1-2 shift, only before and after.


Just to add a little fuel to the fire, when the road is wet, I can spin them at any speed up to and including 45mph. Perhaps even higher, but it starts sliding, so I havn't been crazy enough to try it at a higher speed.


EDIT:


On reflection, I can see how you might not believe me, so I thought about what my sig might not show that might help you. I have removed the following from the rear of the truck



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<TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>35.2 lbs</TD></TR>
<TR style="HEIGHT: 12.75pt" height=17>
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<TD class=xl24 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #ece9d8; BORDER-TOP: #ece9d8; BORDER-LEFT: #ece9d8; BORDER-BOTTOM: #ece9d8; BACKGROUND-COLOR: transparent" x:num>17.2 lbs</TD></TR>
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Thats over 173 pounds removed from the rear. There is no sense carrying around a spare (and all its supplies) thats 4 inches to small.


Also, a Ext cab is over 230lbs lighter than a Crew Cab.Edited by: Amric

I've gotta back these guys up, my truck will roast the 35" tires in 3rd gear with no clutch and a ~10mph rolling start, with two different tuners. First one being the Bullydog Power Pup 155hp flavor, on hot dry pavement in a straight line. Second one being with the regular Juice, 90hp version, which required a slight turning start to break them loose (in 3rd) but once it broke loose it was smoke city, roasting the tires. 2nd gear was no problem to break them loose in a straight line with the juice.


The Power Pup felt berzerk, it had great thrust from 2000+rpm that would throw you back in the seat if you got traction, or were in at least 4th gear. The Juice is much more mild but pulls strong from a lower RPM. It definitely needed the turn-assist to help it break the tires loose but not by a lot.


I've also got my spare tire removed but nothing else, and a thick heavy 2-piece rubber bedmat which weighs at least as much as the spare tire did.

Tank,


Do you have access to a G-Tech? Traction is certainly one performance indicator, but variables such as tire size, tread condition, road condition, etc. make it difficult to guage what you're power adder is putting down.


I have a CC/SB with the spare &amp; everything and new 285/75-16 BFG All-Terrains. I've run the Quad 135HP and 165HP, and now run the 120HP TTS Powerloader. I have the Transgo kit installed with the Suncoast single-disk billet torque converter, so at these HP levels the tranny isn't slipping or anything.


On clean dry pavement with no powerbraking, only the TTS 120 will break the tires loose. And it happens as soon as boost is build in 1st gear (like Amric's) and continues through 2nd before catching just before shifting to third. The Quad is still strong off the line and pulls hard in the higher gears.


My G-tech times with the TTS 120 are consistently .4 to .5 sec quicker 0-60 than the Quad 165 was, even though I loose some traction coming off the line with the TTS.


Doug

Wow, sounds like it's quite the performer, especially having a supposed 45hp handicap!

Well whenever I am spinning them like I stated it isn't with a rolling start, it breaking it. I don't know if anyone misunderstood but it is power breaking when I do it. And no I don't have access to one.

WOW this post went to hell in a hurry. You know I never really got any solid answers at all. I read through this thing and it is a bunch of egos and crap. haha jk. I think I have made some decisions about what to do from here. Thanks

Ok, back on topic. As you can guess by my sig, I like the Quad best. My reasoning is probably different than most.


Reason #1:


From what I have seen with my Allison, my personal opinion is it is a bad idea to do anything to confuse it. By this I mean, I think it is a bad idea to have the ability to change power settings on the fly. I also think it is a bad idea to not have the extra power when the engine is cold. The Allison will shift hard because it is expecting the power, when its not there, it will start to adjust back in the wrong direction. When the engine warms up, and the power comes on, it has to relearn again.


Reason #2:


I am of the school that it is HP that gets you down the 1/4 mile, and torque that breaks parts. Due to this thinking I want a tuner that gives the most HP with the least torque. For towing, an Edge or Banks may be better, but my trailer is only 7000 lbs, and I've got more torque that I'll ever need.


Reason #3:


This one does not really bother me with the high quality products that are available for the Duramax, but I have had overheating problems, and connector problems with under hood add on boxes. For these reasons, I slightly prefer reprogramming the factory ECM and leaving the hardware as is.


Reason #4:


I like the ability to reset codes, adjust my speedo, and remove the speed limiter.


Reason #5:


I like the fact that I can remove it and sell it later unlike the Predator.


Reason #6:


I have not yet been to the track, and only have a G-tech, but my times seem to be better than any of the other tunes I have seen that advertise the same power.

Amric, thanks for getting this thread back on track. If we continue to insult each other here the advantage of a professional forum gets lost. (Whichis why I post here and not at the diesel page one.).


I , like many others, am looking for the same response I had from a gasoline engine. Does anyone else recommend the quad for this. Not for racing at the track, mind you, just a quick truck with a more linear acceleration response.


HarryK

Hey HarryK --


As I stated earlier i just installed the Quad-135 last Saturday and have been running it on the L3 110hp mode to get the tranny to do it's homework. Even though it been snowy with slippery roads half the time I was able to find some dry pavement this week to experiment with.


I didn't buy it to go drag racing with . . . I did plenty of that 25 years ago. I'm looking for more acceleration, passing power and just being able to surprise an occasional unsuspecting challenger. Oh yes . . my son has a new 6.0 Ford diesel which was enough for me to finally get with the program so i didn't have to continually hear how much power it has. He doesn't know I have it on yet. So I'm just waiting to let him take my truck for a ride, hehe.


I will be honest, the 6.0 Ford is a real nice ride, I really like the interior and that motor is real good. I'm not a GM loyalist and have had several makes, just liked the look of the 2500 HD and still really prefer it to the '03's etc.


Anyway . . . I bought the Quad-135 because I didn't like the looks of the Edge - Attitude monitor at all, in fact, I hate it. I would never ever put that ugly thing in my cab, sorry Edge, it's me . . . I like the traditional classic gauges much better. The digital monitor that Quad is is just as bad. I'm in the process of looking for a set of boost and pyro gauges to mount on the pillar.


I prefer a look closer to the stock dash look, particularly when the lights are on at night. So far the only ones that I've seen that look like that are the Banks gauges. I'm going to check out the Auto-Meter gauges, but it all depends on which ones you get . . . so many choices.


I will say this . . for $501.50 The Quad setup was really about the best bang for the buck. I'm really, really happy with the truck on the L3 -110 hp setting.


Hey Quad - Nice job, this thing works very well . . . http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Trader Jack

Trader, Ill check it out.

Just to add a little fuel to the fire, when the road is wet, I can spin them at any speed up to and including 45mph.


You need a tuner to spin at 45 in the rain??..man my tires must suck because I can roll into it in 4th or 5th at 45 and start spinning pretty easily. By rolling in I mean fairly quickly stomping it.

Quad 135hp fan all the way!! Great product and great customer service! If you are going that route Van Massy is the man to talk to. I actually think he has some specials going at the time.


Mikehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif