My 2004 2500HD is about 1000 lbs over the GVW of 9200 lbs... Is there anything I can do to beef up the truck? The new 5th wheel has a pin weight of 2860... About 1200 more than my old 5th wheel... The truck sits down almost 3 inches when I hitch up..

I know air bags would help that but not the extra weight...


Steve:help:

Steve, sounds like to much 5th wheel for a 2500. I own a RV park and see simular overweight combinations from time to time. If everything works right and no one gets in an emergency situation you can get from point A to point B. In real life someday somebody will pull out in front of you on the highway or otherwise put you in a situation that causes you to have to react quickly and somebody will get hurt.

I just bought (last week) a 05 2500 hd and have run the numbers everyway for a 5th wheel. For a trailer that size you need a bigger truck.

Terry

Your limiting component is the tires and rims.

3200 each on the rims I think and 3042 for each tire at max inflation.

Go get the truck weighed on a scale to determine weight per axle.

And don't tell the weight police.

But, then again, you posted, so now your'e toast.

I weighed the truck Saturday,,, That's what brought about this post :(

Here's the numbers

Truck with full fuel, wife, daughter small load of tools and overweight dog... 7200 lbs
( I was not in it for any of these weights.)

Weight on front axle 3920
Weight on rear axle 6140
Total truck weight 10060 I was not on board and trailer was hitched.
Total trailer weight 11120
Pin weight 2860
Total combined weight 18320 lbs

Truck says front axle can carry 4410 with tires inflated to 55 psi
Rear axle can carry 6048 with tires inflated to 80 psi

GVW of the truck is 9200 lbs...

A new truck is not really in the cards ,, Mine is only 8 month old and the wife is not intrested in an increase in payments..

Any Ideas?

Steve

I had a 2000 Chevy K3500 with a big block. I my friend had a 2003 Chevy 2500HD with a big block. We both bought 2005 DMAXes. I tried the air bags this helped the way the truck sat but is not legal. Truck got kind of scarey a couple times so decided to get the right truck for the job. This time I bought a 3500 DRW. Oh my trailer is a 44' gooseneck weighing around #15000

rider-how can you say that is not legal.the gvr ratings in the door are not set in stone.they are for the vehicle as sold.any suspension mods can up gvw.a 3500 is just a 2500 with big fenders and 2 more tires.i have a 3500 tagged for 36000 and run about 34000 all the time and my gvw is 11400.i ahve to got through weigh stations all the time.there is a difference between what is legal and what is recommended.

talk to some of the guys on here that tow heavy... like rickdlance, he tows alot and has been for a while.

It's looks like your tires are going to take the majority of the beating.

I don't know of any company making an "F" load rated tire, but I'm sure there is. Get an F or a G if you can find them.

If you don't mind the speedo and DIC getting inaccurate, you could go for 265 E series and increase your tire load.

Otherwise, keep your speed down, watch your tires often and keep them at max inflation. Also save for new tires, you're going to wear those stockers out more quickly than normal.

rider-how can you say that is not legal.the gvr ratings in the door are not set in stone.they are for the vehicle as sold.any suspension mods can up gvw.a 3500 is just a 2500 with big fenders and 2 more tires.i have a 3500 tagged for 36000 and run about 34000 all the time and my gvw is 11400.i ahve to got through weigh stations all the time.there is a difference between what is legal and what is recommended.

Wouldn't you need to re-certify the vehicle to make it legal for the new GVWR?

Wouldn't you need to re-certify the vehicle to make it legal for the new GVWR?

No.

Idahofox

rider-how can you say that is not legal.the gvr ratings in the door are not set in stone.they are for the vehicle as sold.any suspension mods can up gvw.a 3500 is just a 2500 with big fenders and 2 more tires.i have a 3500 tagged for 36000 and run about 34000 all the time and my gvw is 11400.i ahve to got through weigh stations all the time.there is a difference between what is legal and what is recommended.

In Michigan you are held to the vehicle gvw. The gvw is based on the tires and brakes among other things. The rear end on a 3500 is larger with larger axles than the 2500. You can also look at the gcvw if the trailer holds most of the weight.

You're at about 26% pin weight. Perhaps bring that down to 15% and your problems are solved. Is 15% OK? Reload the trailer if possible to reduce it.

Your GCVW of 18k ain't out of line.

PS - The 265 tires on a 3500SRW are rated at 3400ea.

i have a 3500 tagged for 36000 and run about 34000 all the time and my gvw is 11400.i ahve to got through weigh stations all the time.there is a difference between what is legal and what is recommended.

Ok........
What do you mean by "i have a 3500 tagged for 36000"
What is tagging?
Also what is the difference between legal and recommended?

I am assuming a chain is only as strong as its weakest link. So if the tires can handle 5000 lbs each and the axle can handle 10,000 lbs each then the trucks GVWR is 20000lbs right?

However if your truck has the same specs but 3500 lb tires then your GVWR is 14000 lbs. Yet I still wonder about the weight police.

i have for hire plates on my truck that say i can haul 36000 as long as i have the weight spread out on my axles.regardless of what my tires say ,my truck sticker says.as long as i have these for hire plates on my truck and i am not over legal axle weights dot says i can haul it.10000 on steer axle,10000 on drive axle and 10000 on each trailer axle.now if you add up all my axles and i tagged my truck for it i could legally,according to dot standards haul 50000.way too much weght for my truck.not recommended and i go to michigan all the time and have gone through there dot scales.where some people may be having a problem is anything plated over 26000 you must have a CDL.

i have for hire plates on my truck that say i can haul 36000 as long as i have the weight spread out on my axles.regardless of what my tires say ,my truck sticker says.as long as i have these for hire plates on my truck and i am not over legal axle weights dot says i can haul it.10000 on steer axle,10000 on drive axle and 10000 on each trailer axle.now if you add up all my axles and i tagged my truck for it i could legally,according to dot standards haul 50000.way too much weght for my truck.not recommended and i go to michigan all the time and have gone through there dot scales.where some people may be having a problem is anything plated over 26000 you must have a CDL.

If you did not have the for hire plates would you be legal? If not, do you know why?

What does it mean when you say "and i tagged my truck for it"? What is tagging?

Sounds like axles are the key. Is this correct?

Thanks,

The rear end on a 3500 is larger with larger axles than the 2500. You can also look at the gcvw if the trailer holds most of the weight.

Is that what you Believe? :confused:

Idahofox

tagged,as in license plates.commercial vehicles are plated or tagged as to the weght they plan on carrying.in my case 36000.i believe it is still legal as long as you have a CDL for any tagged or plated vehicle over 26000.

I don't know any way to reduce the pin weight to 15%.. Thats a thousand pound reduction. The axles can't be moved forward. Filling the rear gray tank only adds about 360 lb back there.. The dog tried to bite me when I was duct taping him to the rear ladder and my wife said it was no fun sitting on the roof watching the dog try to get loose at 65 mph....

All the HD GM's have the same axle, the AAM 1150.

I don't know any way to reduce the pin weight to 15%.. Thats a thousand pound reduction. The axles can't be moved forward. Filling the rear gray tank only adds about 360 lb back there.. The dog tried to bite me when I was duct taping him to the rear ladder and my wife said it was no fun sitting on the roof watching the dog try to get loose at 65 mph....

Where is your fresh water? Luggage or camping gear? How do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time.

If you raise your truck up to 3500SRW spec, it's a 9900 GVW. That just involves better tires and better rear springs. Now you are only a few hundred over, surely you can balance a few hundred.

Seriously, you are not that much too heavy. I'd try a short trip, and possibly a "panic stop" from 35 MPH in a parking lot and see how it does. Run your tires at 80 PSI cold. Better shocks than stock certainly would not hurt either.

Fresh water tank is midway between the pin and tires.. I could run empty.. Take off the tailgate and place nothing in the truck bed , tool box or front storage compartments... Fill the rear gray water tank... If I do all that I figure I can take off 500 lbs... Problem is I can not add the extra AC or washer dryer or use the full closet or side closet without placing even more weight on the pin....

I am looking at a 3500... The wife is not very happy... I am not very happy either because it means selling the boat :( But I have not found many ways to lighten the load enough to feel comfortable going down the highway... I am a paramedic... I see all the "One in a million" accidents and I really don't want to place myself or family in that position :)

If i can get the blue book trade in I will be ok I think.....

Steve

Swatkins, good call to upgrade. Yes it means more money, but safety should always come first.

:)

Understand the American truck makers are conservative in their ratings.

A Nissan Armada SUV is stickered to tow 9100lb with a 1600lb payload and it weighs 5200.
A Chevy Suburban SUV is stickered to tow 8400lb with a 1700lb payload and it weighs 5200.

Both are 8 seaters and 1/2 ton configurations. Brakes are the same size, and the frame is probably stronger on the Chevy.

So if your truck had Nissan badging on it, you'd be OK?

I've run across the country with over 3000lb in the bed of our blue truck. At no time did either my wife or I feel the truck was overloaded or unsafe.

Your call, but I'd just spend a few hundred stiffening up the rear.

If don't mind me asking what kind of fifth wheel is it and the model also?

I didn't see anyone mention this so I will....your weight rating is to protect to you not only in the suspension department, but also in braking. That extra 1000lbs. might get scary in a panick stop and if you are RVing you can bet some clown is gonna think he should be in front of you regardless if there is enough room for him to be there or not...:D
JP

I hear you McRat, and it may come to that... Just right now is a good time to buy a new truck, 35,500 for a loaded 3500DRW... I can get 27,500 trade in on mine... So for 8 thousand I get a truck that I know will do the job, has a full warrenty and no repairs or tires needed for a year more... If I can swing that I will..
If not I will beef up the rear on my existing truck....

The trailer is a 29 RKT Lakota.. It is made by a division of monaco.... http://www.mckenzierv.com/lakotafw/index.html It is a really nice, well built trailer... I expect it to last a long time! Hey, that's what I said about the last one :(

McRat .. according to the signature truck you are talking about a 3500 srw... That truck has a gvw of 9800 lbs... 3000 lbs in the back leaves you just a few hundred pounds over the GVW... Mine right now is nearly 1300 lbs over with me in the truck.... Thats a bigger difference that yours.... But I do understand your points....

Thanks
Steve

To clarify a few things,

The only difference between 2500HD and 3500 SRW is the tires (245 vs. 265) and overload springs in the rear.

The 2500HD, 3500 SRW, and 3500 dually all have the same:
brakes, axles (AAM 1150 rated at 10,930 lbs.), same frame, same cooling capacity, etc.

The difference is in the springs, tires, and sticker on door. Nothing else.

Steve I know I am going to get clobered by the weight police. I towed heavy with a 2500 HD D/A SB. My fifth wheel is triple axle and weighs 14000 to 15000. I have towed it for two years through the Smokies and the Rockies. The only time I ever pulled over for wind the dually were pulling over to. I put 265 10 ply tires on is the only modification I did. I went to the dually because of the good deal and every one says it will do a better job. But I would not hesitate to take off any where with my former set up. I had no problem stopping it or pulling in the mountains with it. I was 300 lbs over on over all weight. I have been pulling heavy for a long time farm equipment and the likes on goose necks. If it did'n handle well I would not have pulled it.

:cool_shad Hey you, yeah you in the overloaded truck, pull over, it's the weight police! :snipersmi

Now that was cute rt446! :D

swatkins, seeing as how none of us knows your towing experience its kind of risky giving you advice on towing over your vehicles stated ratings. There are plenty of guys on the DP that would pull your 5ver with your truck, but that is them, you make your choice. ;)

Personally I like your emphasis on safety over a few dollars. Plus, I've towed for, well lets say a few years, and the dually footprint is far and away a better towing vehicle. Plus you get that cool bubble butt:cool: and can join the 3500 Dually Club! ;) Well worth the money! :ro) Hate to see you give up the boat though, every guy needs lot of toys. ):h Later. JJ

Hi JJ

I have been pulling a "few" years :) 30 so far and I want to make it 31 ;) I had a Bubble Butt on my 1984 Dually and got tired of paying for 6 tires, not going thru car washes and drive thru windows... Oh and and I forgot about driving to the airport every morning to borrow the airstrip to turn around on :)

I know what I am giving up but I also see, everyday, what troubles people get into and I am getting old enough to just not want to worry about these things.... When you deal with accidents all the time you think about what can and does go wrong.

I hate giving up the boat also... But its the only way to get the payments back down... I wish they would tell you about the 5.9% financing when they push the employee discount!

Steve

I have not posted yet, so I am prepared to take all the newbie stuff.
heres a link to another forum with a story that reltaes to this very topic. and how California views an improperly loaded vehicle.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24262&hl=towing+accident

Thanks 1 step

Today I ordered the 3500 DRW.... Move over boys I am joining the Bubble Butt Club! :B

Good for you!

The peace of mind is worth a lot! I've towed with both setups! The smaller size rear wheels of a dually improves braking dramatically! I've got 50k miles towing both a 30' Arctic Fox TT and a Lance #1121 camper which loaded is ****** GVW and never had a braking problem! I just put on new tires at 50K and they had another 10k left in them! Haven't touched the brakes yet! The money wouldn't mean much if you had an accident and wondered if you had made the wrong decision! Right?

I have not posted yet, so I am prepared to take all the newbie stuff.
heres a link to another forum with a story that reltaes to this very topic. and how California views an improperly loaded vehicle.

http://www.glamisdunes.com/invision/index.php?showtopic=24262&hl=towing+accident

I'm certainly not going to argue for towing unsafe loads, but there must be more to that story. My guess is drunk driving or speeding. Funny thing about the laws in the US, killing people with your car is seldom illegal. If you are drunk, racing, or speeding yes. A lady is talking on her cellphone and runs a red light and in the process kills a motorcyclist, no charges are brought.

Swatkins made a good choice and stepped up to a dually. A dually is always a better tow rig, regardless of trailer weight. But is a 2500HD safe with an 11,000lb trailer? Absolutely. His problem was that the specific trailer model he bought had an unusually high pin weight, and no realistic way to adjust it.

If he had an accident while obeying the traffic laws in a 18,000lb Combined weight rig that is rated at 22,000lb, no criminal charges could or would be imposed. But understand you can be sued for ANY accident, even if you were not at fault.

Lord knows we have all seen accidents caused by towing wrong. Boats in the fastlane sitting on their keels, jackknifed toy boxes, trailers disconnected from the truck, etc, etc. The more weight that is in the trailer, the more havoc the accident can cause, but most of the accidents I've seen were caused by a failure of the Common Sense Gland as a primary reason. Being in a dually does not inflate this gland.

McRat, so true! Good post. JJ

I'm certainly not going to argue for towing unsafe loads, but there must be more to that story.
If he had an accident while obeying the traffic laws in a 18,000lb Combined weight rig that is rated at 22,000lb, no criminal charges could or would be imposed.



Heres an example; the truck is rated to tow 10,000lb, (via the installed tow hitch) and the trailers GVWR is 12,000lb, what now?

We can assume that the trailer is under 10k net loaded, but it makes no difference to the CHP, the truck is determined over capacity, due to the GVWR being almost 20% higher than the truck is rated to tow.

Lord knows we have all seen accidents caused by towing wrong. Boats in the fastlane sitting on their keels, jackknifed toy boxes, trailers disconnected from the truck, etc, etc. The more weight that is in the trailer, the more havoc the accident can cause, but most of the accidents I've seen were caused by a failure of the Common Sense Gland as a primary reason. Being in a dually does not inflate this gland.

Again I will agree with you, absolutely.

However, in the case that the trailer's GVWR exceeds the trucks rated tow capacity, I'd have to say you need the right truck for the job.
And in the case that the truck has the ability, make sure that the hitch does as well.

We can assume that the trailer is under 10k net loaded, but it makes no difference to the CHP, the truck is determined over capacity, due to the GVWR being almost 20% higher than the truck is rated to tow.


This is not correct. Its not how much you can tow, its how much you are towing. The GVWR is based on the axles of a tow vehicle. I have a car trailer with two 3500 lb axles. This means the GVWR is 7000 lbs. However the trailer only weighs about 1000 lbs. I can tow a 1000 lb load with my 97 blazer legally, but not a 7000 lb legally. Again, Its not how much you could weigh it is how much you actually weigh.

Another thing to keep in mind.
Lets say you have a truck that can tow 10,000 lbs and has a payload capacity of only 1000 lbs, because you are hauling something else in the bed (or you have accessories or something). "Bumber pull" trailers should be loaded where the tongue weight is 10% to 15% of the weight of the trailer. If your trailer is loaded at 10% on the tongue, you would be legal because 1000lbs would be on the truck. If your trailer is loaded at 15% on the tongue, you would not be legal because 1500lbs would be on the truck.

Another thing to keep in mind.
Some people say they dont want to use weight distribution bars. However these bars will transfer weight to the front axle. So even though you are under the GCVWR and the GVWR of the truck you could very well be over the Gross Vehicle Axle Weight Rating (GVAWR).

To make a longer story even longer.....
The capacites of trailers and vehicles are based on what the axles can handle. Here is a note form the GM site
NOTE: Trailer tongue weight should be 10 to 15 percent of total loaded trailer weight (up to 1,500 lbs.). • Addition of trailer tongue weight cannot cause vehicle weights to exceed Rear Gross Axle Weight Rating (RGAWR) or Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR). These ratings can be found on the certification label located on the driver door or door frame.

I'm on the road so I cannot state the exact figures, but I thought that I was having the same issue, so I added Helwig Helper Springs, and had the local Chevy dealer put on, I believe, 265 tires (the same size as the SRW 3500). They also reflashed the computer to accomdate the different tires. Now I find that with my new fifth wheel I am still within the specs for a 2500HD. However, I am near the limits, and I don't like the way it handles.

Hello,
New to this forum but need some advice and help or reccomendations on my tow rig setup.

2004 2500LD, SB, 6.0L gas w/3:73 rear, 4WD. Reese 16K slider hitch and 2006 Grand Surveyor fiver 26' overall length.

Cat certified scaled weight when first picked up from dealer was 13480 lbs going across scale with 3820 lbs on the front axle and 6360 lbs on the rear axle. Truck GVWR is 8600 lbs with 4410 lb front and 6000 lb rear. Tires are E series 245x75R 16 street tread. Max trl wt limit is 8300 lbs and GCWR is 14000 lbs. Trailer was dry wt except for 15 gal of water and 14 lbs of propane.

I have pulled on some interstate and regular roads and small grades/hills in north GA but wonder what I can do to make sure I am safe and can stop within reason. I pull about 60/62 MPH and always in tow/haul mode.

Sorry about the long post but I want to do this the right way.

Thanks in advance for your responses.

U may want to copy and paste this in a new topic to get better answers.

A good brake controller is a great start.

max tire inflation since your at max weight.

slide the hitch forward some and get more weight on the front axle will help too.

The truck is made to stop it's full gvwr and the trailer is rated to stop it's full gvwr but it takes a little longer.

Get out on some back roads and try out some panic stops, start slow and go faster to see how things react.
Don't over heat the brakes from too many repeated tries.

Many thanks, have a prodigy brake controller and tires are at 80 lbs. max on rears and 50 lbs on fronts. I will work on the panic stops when I can find a secluded road but kinda of hard to do where I live, better to go to a deserted parking lot and play.

Again, thanks for your answers.

IF I am reading Nation of 4's post right he is 1580 lbs OVER his 2500LD 's GVW of 8600 lbs... He said his front was 3820 and rear was 6360...= 10180 lbs GVW Thats even worse than what I had...

I would look to your tires also... I think they have a max load of 3042 for each tire at max inflation. So your 210 lbs over the tire rating now...

BE really careful! And stay away from me :D

Any chance of taking advantage of GM's sale? I just bought a 3500 DRW for 35,600....

Steve