Are they the same? I have an`06 LBZ and need more braking towing.

The technology is similar. Fleece also offers a similar product.

Banks is going to feed you a whole line of bullshit and JBARKER is gonna come on here and whine and cry and protest that theirs is so much better in this and that way, but the truth is they work basically the same way and are equally as effective.

With the dmax you can set the cruise control to X speed, and the truck will use the exhaust brake, trans downshifting, and engine power reduction to keep you at that set speed without hitting the brakes, no matter what the grade.


ben

The 2011 GM system is more integrated, meaning the exhaust braking and trans down shifting are based on what situation you're in. Its a great combination.

Hi Hambone02:

I am not sure of the relevance of the question? The Banks system is available now and appears to be well designed and engineered.( I bought one but haven't installed it yet?) The Banks system can be taken off if you decide to trade the truck etc?
The 2011 will have a factory system? I don't think anyone has tried the factory system yet so I can't see how it could be better, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was similar???
I don't expect that you could buy the factory system to retrofit to your truck?

If you are considering upgrading trucks than you would have the factory brake, a new truck and factory warranty but at a substantial investment? Hope this helps?

I was just curious if GM copied the Banks system. I am keeping my `06 until it falls apart! Got a good deal on it and I have it set up fifth wheel towing. I will tow this summer and then decide on the Banks Speed Brake. The Allison tranny has done ok so far, but I may feel I need more braking after a couple of trips.

I was just curious if GM copied the Banks system...
No it was the other way around. GM has had the exhaust brake feature in the Med. Duty trucks for a while. Banks just figured out how to enable it on the pickups and sell it.

Can't EFIlive and Edge Race line on the lvl 2 tow tune with the turbobraking feature do almost the same thing at a fraction of the cost? Just wondering? I love the Edge turbobrake feature, slows the truck down nicely without hitting the brake pedal. Chris

Can't EFIlive and Edge Race line on the lvl 2 tow tune with the turbobraking feature do almost the same thing at a fraction of the cost? Just wondering? I love the Edge turbobrake feature, slows the truck down nicely without hitting the brake pedal. Chris

they cant lock onto a certain speed though like the LML's "interactive" "dynamic" exhaust brake....they just engage it regardless whenever you let off the pedal.

ben

No it was the other way around. .

I cant wait to see Jbarker's/BANKS's response to this one. :D

no uhm well but but but...GM didnt make it so you can control the exhaust brake with your PDA!!!! We had the idea first!!!

Moved to Fuel, Air, Exhaust.

Play nice boys.....

I was just curious if GM copied the Banks system. I am keeping my `06 until it falls apart! Got a good deal on it and I have it set up fifth wheel towing. I will tow this summer and then decide on the Banks Speed Brake. The Allison tranny has done ok so far, but I may feel I need more braking after a couple of trips.
I doubt they copied our there would be law suits. The Banks speed brake for one does not work with the cruise control on so there is a difference right there.

Can't EFIlive and Edge Race line on the lvl 2 tow tune with the turbobraking feature do almost the same thing at a fraction of the cost? Just wondering? I love the Edge turbobrake feature, slows the truck down nicely without hitting the brake pedal. Chris


That would be nice Chris, but right now you can set your truck to hold at 55 mpg whatever grade your on. It is just once you lift you foot it does slow you down. I am with you it does work nice, but to slow it down to a certain speed & how that would be awesome. It would be nice to be able to use your cruise control to.

will the LML system be able to be used on the previous engines?

will the LML system be able to be used on the previous engines?

no. Its totally integrated into the LML ECM and LML allison TCM.

Banks didnt have it first... The Fleece Turbobrake has been around more than 5 years now, and They actually held a trade mark on the Turbobrake name most of that time. Its not a "patentable" Idea, Garret and Holset provided the technology, its just a matter of who can control it and how.

For your 06 sir, the FPE turbobrake would work great with you manual tapshift option, to hold your desired speed without the tranny upshifting or downshifting, and at a fraction of the price of the Banks personal hand held do everything you dont need it to do price.

Also the FPE Turbobrake lets you control turbo boost on the power side, letting you increase your boost pressure with the turn of a knob. And it works in conjuction with EFI live when in performance mode (if you use that tuner). It costs less than Banks' and does more........ I can't wait to get mine when I get home.

And I'm not trying to put Banks' down or talk bad about their products. I just feel they are a little over priced


Banks didnt have it first... The Fleece Turbobrake has been around more than 5 years now, and They actually held a trade mark on the Turbobrake name most of that time. Its not a "patentable" Idea, Garret and Holset provided the technology, its just a matter of who can control it and how.

For your 06 sir, the FPE turbobrake would work great with you manual tapshift option, to hold your desired speed without the tranny upshifting or downshifting, and at a fraction of the price of the Banks personal hand held do everything you dont need it to do price.

Not sure how I missed this one but it was brought to my attention earlier today so I'll respond as requested.
Banks is going to feed you a whole line of bullshit and JBARKER is gonna come on here and whine and cry and protest that theirs is so much better in this and that way, but the truth is they work basically the same way and are equally as effective.

With the dmax you can set the cruise control to X speed, and the truck will use the exhaust brake, trans downshifting, and engine power reduction to keep you at that set speed without hitting the brakes, no matter what the grade.


ben
Well it's obvious you have no idea how the speed brake actually works nor how it's far more powerful then the LML/Fleece/EFI put together.

No it was the other way around. GM has had the exhaust brake feature in the Med. Duty trucks for a while. Banks just figured out how to enable it on the pickups and sell it.

I cant wait to see Jbarker's/BANKS's response to this one. :D

no uhm well but but but...GM didnt make it so you can control the exhaust brake with your PDA!!!! We had the idea first!!!
Well your both wrong. We had the patent on the speed brake in 1999

Banks didnt have it first... The Fleece Turbobrake has been around more than 5 years now, We've held the patent on it since 1999 and They actually held a trade mark on the Turbobrake name most of that time. Its not a "patentable" Idea, Garret and Holset provided the technology, its just a matter of who can control it and how. That's incorrect:
US patent numbers:
6,152,853
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6152853.html
Application date 04/07/1999

and 6,652,414 B1
http://ip.com/patent/US6652414
Application No. US 09/995264 filed on 26-Nov-2001

For your 06 sir, the FPE turbobrake would work great with you manual tapshift option, to hold your desired speed without the tranny upshifting or downshifting, and at a fraction of the price of the Banks personal hand held do everything you dont need it to do price. Really? because the turbobrake and tap shift combo costs $1390 and the speed brake runs $788

Hope that clears a few things up:D

Not sure how I missed this one but it was brought to my attention earlier today so I'll respond as requested.

Well it's obvious you have no idea how the speed brake actually works nor how it's far more powerful then the LML/Fleece/EFI put together.

How the hell can your exhaust brake be more powerful.

When I command 99% vane position on the variable vane turbo, YOU CANT GET ANY MORE BACK PRESSURE. Its physically IMPOSSIBLE.

Im not sure how you can feed me a line of crap that you guys can somehow make yours more powerful than that.

So I guess I dont know how your exhaust brake works. ENLIGHTEN ME, please.

I would do a preloaded dsp-5 ecm from duramaxtuner.com with his tow tunes you get the exhaust brake and you don't have to run the big tune all of the time. Better mileage, exhaust brake and around the same price or less than the banks system. Plug and play with performance and good service. Nick and Bob have been good to me.

How the hell can your exhaust brake be more powerful.

When I command 99% vane position on the variable vane turbo, YOU CANT GET ANY MORE BACK PRESSURE. Its physically IMPOSSIBLE.

Im not sure how you can feed me a line of crap that you guys can somehow make yours more powerful than that.

So I guess I dont know how your exhaust brake works. ENLIGHTEN ME, please.

He's a salesmen Ben, that should answer your question.. :D

Not sure how I missed this one but it was brought to my attention earlier today so I'll respond as requested.

Well it's obvious you have no idea how the speed brake actually works nor how it's far more powerful then the LML/Fleece/EFI put together.




Well your both wrong. We had the patent on the speed brake in 1999



Hope that clears a few things up:D
Geez, Jeff. Nearly a year old and you want to drag this up. With all the great publicity that you've been gettin lately (:rolleyes:) it probably would have been a good idea to leave this alone.

We have intervened, at your request, in the past only to find that you have done more to provoke unwanted responses than to resolve the issue. We will not be JBarker's clean up crew. You're on your own. Don't poke the sleeping bear and expect the zookeeper to bail you out.

With that being said, it is not a free pass for everyone to break the rules. You are still responsible for your own actions.


Sent from my EVO using Autoguide App.

Maybe its a really stupid question here, but I'm a little confused. If someone held a patent to the turbo brake technology in 1999, what truck was it going to be employed on. I believe the big 3's diesels all employed standard, non-VVT style turbos back then. Am I wrong here?

No, you are not.

Maybe its a really stupid question here, but I'm a little confused. If someone held a patent to the turbo brake technology in 1999, what truck was it going to be employed on. I believe the big 3's diesels all employed standard, non-VVT style turbos back then. Am I wrong here?

x2

Maybe the word was that this was going to be employed in the next several years, it would be interesting to find out. I think Ford had a VVT first on the sick-litre ('04???) followed by the LLY Dmax then Dodge.

It seems someone here has some problems with various brands of turbobrakes, as this forum is mostly to help each other out with problems and purchase decisions here is my opinion. I tow heavy 26 to 32thou on a regular basis ,I tow in mountains (western states,Rockies ect) I have a banks speedbrake and it is the best investment dollar for dollar I have made on my 3 duramax trucks. Bottom line it works as advertised,exceeds its advertised capabilities, It has 3 different functions to choose from and when in automatic mode it does very well as they say "downhill cruise control" I know the GM factory turbo brake on the 4500 works well but it is not controllable except for braking force ( I think its low/med/high) the 2011 3500 also has little controll but is said to work well. I don't know about Fleeces brake, I did the EFI setting and it is better than nothing but not good for real heavy loads and has little or no control. In short, my opinion is the Banks brake is my best aftermarket investment and would not trade it for anything out there at the present time. It is pricey but well worth it.I don't care about the other ones available as they do not work for what I do, not that they are inferior they just don't meet my needs.

still waiting for jbarker to explain how the banks speed brake "magically" unlocks more braking power than the stock LML exhaust brake has. :rolleyes:

:whistle:

I think Gale took his lap top away!

He's a salesmen Ben, that should answer your question.. :D

8100 Power: I see you have a LML aside from the "Bash Jbarker Thread" I am curious. how does a LML turbo brake work as apples to apples with a banks brake? or anyones elses. My real experience is only with a Banks brake and a EFI tune which was totally inadequate for any real help down hill.
can you set the speed?
can you set the amount of force?
does it work with the foot brake if you want it to?
will it hold any speed you set with 28,000 gross on a 6 to 7 % grade?
Yes I am happy with my Speedbrake but I want the facts before I consider a new LML

Question and I'm not being sarcastic,

Why would one need to set their speed to decsend a hill? It's not like I'd want to set it and go in the back and fix a sandwich or something. I'm sitting right behind a BIG speedometer and can see the speed. IDK I like being in control of things.

I've actually had to speed up when engaging my EFI Live designed turbo brake. That's plenty. I can remember the old days in our Chevy Van with a 350 small block. We just geared down and cruised down the hill.

Question and I'm not being sarcastic,

Why would one need to set their speed to decsend a hill? It's not like I'd want to set it and go in the back and fix a sandwich or something. I'm sitting right behind a BIG speedometer and can see the speed. IDK I like being in control of things.

I've actually had to speed up when engaging my EFI Live designed turbo brake. That's plenty. I can remember the old days in our Chevy Van with a 350 small block. We just geared down and cruised down the hill.

Set it and forget it , no braking or speeding up is the idea. Say the limit is 55 down the hill ,you set the speed and it holds 55 or 65 or 45 whatever you like if the weight/turbo is able. I like being in control and this IS control. Why would you not want this kind of control? You can change it if you want ,there is one setting with EFI a % and a speed range it works when off the throttle, am I correct?

With EFI I command 100% closed vanes at 0 mm3 fuel and 70% at 5 mm3. With the CC set and starting down hill the fuel backs off to maintain speed until fuel is at 5-0 mm3. Then the turbo brake starts to hold back. If the grade levels out fuel is added, vanes open some and speed is maintained. You don't feel a thing other than power changing. If the down grade is more than 0 mm3 and vanes 100% closed can hold, at 5 mph above CC set point grade braking kicks in and the Allison starts down shifting to hold speed. It will up shift or down shift - add or remove fuel - to maintain speed. It works very well and is as automatic as it can be. Sometimes I will tap the resume or coast buttons to change the CC set point to slow down or speed up a little but that's it on my part. Combined weight is 26,500.

I still have the BD physical exhaust brake installed and find I rarely use it (actually don't remember the last time).

With EFI I command 100% closed vanes at 0 mm3 fuel and 70% at 5 mm3. With the CC set and starting down hill the fuel backs off to maintain speed until fuel is at 5-0 mm3. Then the turbo brake starts to hold back. If the grade levels out fuel is added, vanes open some and speed is maintained. You don't feel a thing other than power changing. If the down grade is more than 0 mm3 and vanes 100% closed can hold, at 5 mph above CC set point grade braking kicks in and the Allison starts down shifting to hold speed. It will up shift or down shift - add or remove fuel - to maintain speed. It works very well and is as automatic as it can be. Sometimes I will tap the resume or coast buttons to change the CC set point to slow down or speed up a little but that's it on my part. Combined weight is 26,500.

Very cool! I would love to have my turbo assist the trans during steep downhill runs. Does it work the same if you are not loaded? or is this a specific function to your tow tune?

I am not jumping on the band wagon to bash banks as I run their big hoss bundle. My father wouldn't allow any other tuner on our truck because he's known the banks name for many years. The only thing that sometime winds me up is they tend to be very "political" in their responses and tend not to be very helpful when you stray away from their "stock" equipment.

Banks do produce a very good product. They do leave a lot to be desired when people want to push the envelope and tune their truck. I think they are listening and starting to offer "race only " equipment, but it's still not enough. Then again if you want to "push" don't buy banks.

What I really REALLY would like to see banks offer is an "EFI-live" style tuner but with banks style fail safes. I know they are releasing (they are always just releasing) soon the "speedloader" race unit, But I have done a search and can't find information other than "coming soon"

I am rather happy that my truck came with tow mode as it's Brillant when pulling our trailer. I won't need (fingers crossed) an additional turbo/exhaust brakes due to legal situation in the UK. I am planning on buying EFI-live very soon as I plan to remove the EGR and diagnostic purposes, but I am keeping my banks gear. I do enough Rice burner bashing as it is and when we run in the wet, you can have sooo much fun on FULL LOCK :-)

Interesting thread...

I ran across this when researching a solution for my '05 braking.

I pull a not overly heavy 5th wheel - gross scaled weight, truck and loaded camper come in at 17,200. I live on the front range of Colorado. The past 2 weekends, we have gone west - over 2 big passes - Loveland/Eisenhower tunnel and Vail Pass. Coming down the back side has been zero fun. Controllable, but not overly fun.

I need to do something. Was thinking exhaust brake. Was thinking speed brake. Was thinking new truck to get the integrated exhaust brake. Was thinking I'd get a Kodiak so I feel more comfortable. I want to look at all options but at the end of it all, I'd prefer to keep my '05 since it is paid for and a "known quantity".

It seems to me - and correct me if I am wrong - this speed brake would work well for a guy like me - a guy looking for an EASY set up that I can install myself, learn to use quickly and gain back from piece of mind. Sure I *could* buy a bunch of other pieces and electronics and hope I can try to put them together and make it work without burning down my truck but at what total cost to me?

Am I missing something? I like learning new stuff and playing with my truck but I am a very mechanically inclined computer geek by day who likes to maximize my family time on the weekends. I can't afford to be tinkering forever with something that I may never be able to make work on my own - or that may not work when I need it. It seems this mostly idiot proof system would work well for a guy like me.

Set me straight. I want to spend my money in the best possible way. If that means shelling out a couple extra hundred bucks for something like the speedbrake, I'm not against it.......

Oh yea - that cruise control thing would be the cats meow when your downhill is 20+ miles and some of the grades approach 7% or more.

Interesting thread...

I ran across this when researching a solution for my '05 braking.

I pull a not overly heavy 5th wheel - gross scaled weight, truck and loaded camper come in at 17,200. I live on the front range of Colorado. The past 2 weekends, we have gone west - over 2 big passes - Loveland/Eisenhower tunnel and Vail Pass. Coming down the back side has been zero fun. Controllable, but not overly fun.

I need to do something. Was thinking exhaust brake. Was thinking speed brake. Was thinking new truck to get the integrated exhaust brake. Was thinking I'd get a Kodiak so I feel more comfortable. I want to look at all options but at the end of it all, I'd prefer to keep my '05 since it is paid for and a "known quantity".

It seems to me - and correct me if I am wrong - this speed brake would work well for a guy like me - a guy looking for an EASY set up that I can install myself, learn to use quickly and gain back from piece of mind. Sure I *could* buy a bunch of other pieces and electronics and hope I can try to put them together and make it work without burning down my truck but at what total cost to me?

Am I missing something? I like learning new stuff and playing with my truck but I am a very mechanically inclined computer geek by day who likes to maximize my family time on the weekends. I can't afford to be tinkering forever with something that I may never be able to make work on my own - or that may not work when I need it. It seems this mostly idiot proof system would work well for a guy like me.

Set me straight. I want to spend my money in the best possible way. If that means shelling out a couple extra hundred bucks for something like the speedbrake, I'm not against it.......

Oh yea - that cruise control thing would be the cats meow when your downhill is 20+ miles and some of the grades approach 7% or more.

Im with you on this one. I live in Indiana and tow my 5er for work reasons. Never been on a scale but I'd guess around 22k loaded.
We really enjoy vacationing to Breck and Keystone area. There is NO way my wife would ride with me through any of those passes!
But like you said I don't want to tinker with my LBZ, I get a call and I gotta NOW and not when I get my truck dialed in. A simple upgrade would fabulous.

Interesting thread...

I ran across this when researching a solution for my '05 braking.

I pull a not overly heavy 5th wheel - gross scaled weight, truck and loaded camper come in at 17,200. I live on the front range of Colorado. The past 2 weekends, we have gone west - over 2 big passes - Loveland/Eisenhower tunnel and Vail Pass. Coming down the back side has been zero fun. Controllable, but not overly fun.

I need to do something. Was thinking exhaust brake. Was thinking speed brake. Was thinking new truck to get the integrated exhaust brake. Was thinking I'd get a Kodiak so I feel more comfortable. I want to look at all options but at the end of it all, I'd prefer to keep my '05 since it is paid for and a "known quantity".

It seems to me - and correct me if I am wrong - this speed brake would work well for a guy like me - a guy looking for an EASY set up that I can install myself, learn to use quickly and gain back from piece of mind. Sure I *could* buy a bunch of other pieces and electronics and hope I can try to put them together and make it work without burning down my truck but at what total cost to me?

Am I missing something? I like learning new stuff and playing with my truck but I am a very mechanically inclined computer geek by day who likes to maximize my family time on the weekends. I can't afford to be tinkering forever with something that I may never be able to make work on my own - or that may not work when I need it. It seems this mostly idiot proof system would work well for a guy like me.

Set me straight. I want to spend my money in the best possible way. If that means shelling out a couple extra hundred bucks for something like the speedbrake, I'm not against it.......

Oh yea - that cruise control thing would be the cats meow when your downhill is 20+ miles and some of the grades approach 7% or more.


I live in Denver and pull a 13000lb 5th wheel and I bought the speedbrake for exactly the same reasons you have. It is by far the best thing I have put on this truck, holds the truck at whatever speed you want going down any pass. The one thing I dont like about it is the exessive shifting, the speedbrake will slow the truck to the set speed, say 50, and will then shift to the next highest gear which then immediately causes the truck to speed up to 51 or 52, then it downshifts again, slows the truck back down to 50, then shifts back up..........the speedbrake will keep doing this all the way down the hill but it keeps the trucks speed pretty well tamed. Other than that I really like the unit and would buy one again in a heartbeat, if you dont tow in the mountains I couldn't really see a use for it, in fact if we ever tow anywhere else such as trips to Texas, I will turn the speed brake off. I remember the few times before I got the unit coming down the mountains and I wouldn't want to go back to stock.