After some careful consideration and some more thought I'm going to put the second run on hold until further notice.


When I started this project it was more of a fun, can I do this, thing. Then when I began to show them off I got a lot of response about whether or not I would market these.


It was a good feeling knowing that I could offer up something that people thought was a good idea and wanted. Response has been phenomonal and the support from the users during this time has also been top notch.


Now that I've sent out the initial batch and started to look at making these for people that missed out, the liability issue popped into my head again. A few people here and there I wrote off as a small risk.


In a mass production scenario, my family and personal assets become a larger risk due to the lawsuit happy lawyers that convince people to get what they can.


This being a very small profit/personal gain endeavor I'm just not sure if I wish to proceed further at this point without pursuing deeper what I need to protect myself and family.


I think most of the people here that have followed my threads closely know that I did this as an alternative to a mediocre offering by GM. Well I'm not GM nor do I have the funds to fight a drawn out lawsuit should something go wrong with a set of these and someone get injured or worse.


I'm not a business entity, just a guy with a family that had an idea.


I don't think it's wise to proceed at this point without further investigating the possibility of being held liable for something gone wrong.


I need a little time to sort this through before I mass market these.


Rick

Does this I should ignore your Email?

Yes for the time being please don't send me anything in the form of a payment until I decide how and whether to proceed further.

It is sad that you can't just make these like you want. I think it's a good move on your part to not sell them until you can either set up a LLC or something to protect your ass.

The thing is the more that get out there the more likely there is a chance for something to go wrong. I'm not outright going to abandon this project at this point.


I'm basically going to sit down with a small business attorney again and get some more advice as to what I need to do.


I just hope it isn't too cost prohibitive to make these replacements so pricey that it won't be worth a new startup.

How about a disclaimer of liability, or a waiver that prospective buyers must sign?


I was going to order a set today!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif


That's the story of my life...A day late and a dollar short!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif








Kevin

Rick


I hear you when people spew garbage like their innocent trying to help, but in reality they fear any and all competition ,they get the think tank working ....


The best thing is if these individuals attempt to pirate your idea at least you have shown your attempt first to bring to market ....


I'd be willing to sign a waiver of all liabilty to the manufacture same way Edge products does .... Ask an attorney it maybe as simple as that ...





Mac

A simple liability waiver would eliminate all risk to your family and personal assets. It is a sad day when we need to think of that first, rather than just helping a fellow out, but that is the climate we live in. It is so bad that I will rarely stop to offer help to a stranded fellow as long as I see that they have a cell in their ear. I worry (usually after the fact) about starting CPR or pulling someone out of a ditch because they could come right after me....personally.


I will gladly sign a liability waiver. Do what is right for your comfort levels though.


Matt.

I totally understand your position on this matter and will gladly sign a liability waiver if that is your future dicision. Hope things work out for the best...keep the faith!!!

I'm not sending mine back.... no way http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Do what ever you need to do to protect yourself and get these to market.


I am glad to wait until you have whatever arrangement makes you comfortable.


NitroPopPop

I'm not sending mine back.... no way http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif





http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif Damn, why didnt I get in on the first batch.


hoot, would you take double the price j/k http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif

To Everyone,


I spoke with a lawyer type today about becoming a corporate entity. It seems at as early as Wednesday of this week I can be a business detached from personal asset liability. In essence this means, I can market these, sell them not as Rick, but as a company name. Should the worst happen and someone get hurt(which is something I hope never to happen, not because of profit, but basically because I'm trying to do something good for the community) is that the corporation will get sued forcing it to go bankrupt should that happen.


Anyhow I'll have to set up a business bank account(not a big deal) get some numbers together and what not. If all goes well within 1 to 2 weeks I'll be up and running again and well protected. So hold onto your cash for a little while longer and these will soon be available to you again.


Thank You.


On a side note I had one person e-mail me privately stating he's glad he found out I'm not a man of my word and that he's glad he found out sooner than later.


So can anyone here explain to me how I've gone back on my word in any way? Sure there have been delays, but who in my situation wouldn't have done the same thing??


Edited by: Victory Red

On a side note I had one person e-mail me privately stating he's glad he found out I'm not a man of my word and that he's glad he found out sooner than later.


So can anyone here explain to me how I've gone back on my word in any way? Sure there have been delays, but who in my situation wouldn't have done the same thing??








I certainly wouldn't hesitate to tell anyone who want's to know that you are indeed a man of your word, and your straps are great.


I do think what you're going to do is a really good idea and the e-mail you got proves that there are people out there who would try to take advantage of a situation.


Go for it, you just might have come up with something that will not only be valuable to folks, but make you some coin as well.

So can anyone here explain to me how I've gone back on my word in any way? Sure there have been delays, but who in my situation wouldn't have done the same thing??





I think your question is rhetorical, Rick. You have been above and beyond forthcoming and honest in the whole process. Sounds like one person that you DO NOT want to do business with, and thank them most sincerely for letting you know in advance that you will not have to!

Rick,

It's all part of business. You have to thicken your skin a little to be successful. Don't pay much attention to the few negatives you get. They are inevitable. Some people can never be satisfied as TDP told me in my farewell note.

Well Rick if nothing else you now have further confirmation for your move to a corporate entity. It's guys like that (the e-mail you spoke of) that will be first in line to try some sort of litigation should something go wrong. My sister was just like that...I want it now, you said you would....whaaaaaaaaa!!!!!


Of course she was 3 at the timehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


Remember, don't sweat the small stuff, and everything is small stuff.


JP

On a side note I had one person e-mail me privately stating he's glad he found out I'm not a man of my word and that he's glad he found out sooner than later.


So can anyone here explain to me how I've gone back on my word in any way? Sure there have been delays, but who in my situation wouldn't have done the same thing??











Hope you get going on these, I really want A set.


As far as the above Email you recived from this guy, stick it the trash where it should be!

So can anyone here explain to me how I've gone back on my word in any way? Sure there have been delays, but who in my situation wouldn't have done the same thing??





I think your question is rhetorical, Rick. You have been above and beyond forthcoming and honest in the whole process. Sounds like one person that you DO NOT want to do business with, and thank them most sincerely for letting you know in advance that you will not have to!





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif WTH!!!





You are doing this on your own accord, trying to help where there is a need, making minimal profit and someone bust you chops???? Some people have brass ones I guess.





Through the few e-mails I have swapped with you and other conversations on this forum, I had no problem blindly sending you the $50. just to have my name on the list, but you insisted on waiting until you were ready.





I agree and think the comment was way off base and you should be glad you wont have to deal with him in a business manner, at least, “I” would not, even if he offered you triple the cost.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

I think they'll be a bargain at twice the price, and twice the wait too!





To your confused e-mailer: WTF!........................Over. I have not yet had any business dealings with Rick (I will as soon as he starts taking more orders), but I hope everyone I deal with in the future is as above board and honest as he is.














Kevinhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Well you should see the response I received from him a few minutes ago, oh well, I'll let that die.


Anyhow just got done with the legal part of it. This is what he told me, by Wednesday he should know whether or not my application was approved(states that it takes mainly two days to process). Near the end of the week I should receive my EIN(employer identification number) which I will need to open a bank account with. Once those are complete and provided I keep the funds completely seperate of my personal funds I should be ok. Nothing is ever guaranteed of course, but now I can sleep easier that I'm doing what I can to protect myself and family.


I hopefully by the end of next week will start the pre-order process for the straps. Yet another delay in this game, but that's just the way it's got to be.


All of you(minus the one) have been quite pleasant(and patient) through this in relation to me trying to make these for everyone. I'm just a guy with with an idea trying to do what I believe to be a good thing, but in this lawsuit happy world of ours I need to cover my a$$.


My plans are to keep the final cost the same since I started this as a pet project and will finish this as a pet project. I'll just need to sell a lot more sets to break even again.


Once everything is in place I'll put up a notification once again, go the pre-order route once again in hopes of getting everyone a set that wants a set.

ok enough pats on the back here peoplehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif. Plain and simple I love my truck(as most of you do). We've all done things to our machines to make them better, perform better etc.


I basically played with the idea for myself, decided to offer to others and got slammed with more requests than expected. This started a downhill effect that forced to choose the route of becoming a formal business for personal protection.


I'm just a guy with some free time and access to resources many of you don't have.


Only time and use will determine whether or not these are a suitable alternative to the OEM cable.


I cannot for obvious reasons(nor have I ever) made claims to strength or capability of these. It's a use at your own risk product(much like the power boxes or secondary filters we're using).

ok enough pats on the back here peoplehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif.
Well, then I think you're a loser. Do you feel better now? Just kidding! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif

Although it disgusts me that the world has sunken to such a low level -- as is evident by that lone email you spoke of -- it is a wise move on your part to protect your family.

When production commences again let me know, because I want to get one from the next batch.

And keep your head up, because you're doing a d@mn good job! Oh wait a minute, that was brown nosing, wasn't it? Sorry about that...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

I was one of the lucky recipients of the 1st four sets. Very good quality and much better than the cables. Rick delivers what he says he will. I will be purchasing another set for my son-in-law when available. Thanks Rick.

Rick, dont lose faith man, theres allways going to be bad guys, no matter how good your intensions. Sure i was disapointed when i got lost in the shuffle at the begining, but i also understood that you were overwhelmed with demand . Your doing it right, dont be stampeded until your comfortable with the whole deal.Mike(MGM-2).http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

Rick, your doing just fine. When your ready I'll be ready.


Steve

Well I do apologize to everyone that has had to wait. If I were in your shoes I'd be wondering to myself what is up with this guy. Anyhow this should be the last major hurdle(how's that for optimism?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif) that I should have to jump over. I hope to be 'down' for less than two weeks so it shouldn't be to horrible for those waiting.

I've been away for a while! So hi everyone!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Ever sense I met Rick at the Grand Rapids get-to-gether I new Rick was a crookhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Just kidding!!! You can't be all bad, you do drive a GMhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Rick! I need a set of those straps. Many of these guys want them because they look cool, or they know the cables will break one day in the future. Well I need them because both of mine broke a couple months ago, and I can not use the tailgate.

I would like a second set as a back up, or for my next truck. (which ever the case may be) Let me know when to send the money! Is $150 for two sets ok? Just let me know. Oh yea! if you need or want me to sign a waiver, That will be fine.

The worst part of when the cables broke, was that the cable itself had been broke long enough to be rusted and it had several very small peices of rusty cable. The truck isn't even 2 years old yet.

Rick


I hear you when people spew garbage like their innocent trying to help, but in reality they fear any and all competition ,they get the think tank working ....


The best thing is if these individuals attempt to pirate your idea at least you have shown your attempt first to bring to market ....


I'd be willing to sign a waiver of all liabilty to the manufacture same way Edge products does .... Ask an attorney it maybe as simple as that ...





Mac





Who else is trying to market the idea?

The worst part of when the cables broke, was that the cable itself had been broke long enough to be rusted and it had several very small peices of rusty cable. The truck isn't even 2 years old yet.





Thats what I'm afraid of also. There is no way to tell the condition of the cables until it's too late.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif








Kevin

Rick,


You don't deserve or need this guy's BS. I may have my set, but like I said before “Family comes FIRST”.


And for the individual that doesn’t understand.


Drool on this!!!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/VR_Straps1.jpg


Yea, I know I just lowered myself, but I couldn’t help it.

Rick,


You don't deserve or need this guy's BS. I may have my set, but like I said before “Family comes FIRST”.


And for the individual that doesn’t understand.


Drool on this!!!


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/VR_Straps1.jpg


Yea, I know I just lowered myself, but I couldn’t help it.








Man,oh man! Those look sweeeeeeet!!!!!


I can't wait!





Kevinhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I hope to be 'down' for less than two weeks so it shouldn't be to horrible for those waiting.
Since it appears as though you've decide to forge ahead it might not be a bad idea to setup the second run and have them all ready to go when you do get everything finalized. That way, you can ship immediately. Just a thought...

I hope to be 'down' for less than two weeks so it shouldn't be to horrible for those waiting.
Since it appears as though you've decide to forge ahead it might not be a bad idea to setup the second run and have them all ready to go when you do get everything finalized. That way, you can ship immediately. Just a thought...

Translation....

Stop ***** footin around and get them darn things shipped

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Well I'd love to start taking orders again. Two problems though I'm not official at this moment, nor do I have a bank account set up to receive funds(cannot do this until I get my EIN, probably Friday).


I'm also still considering the possibility of having a liability waiver or disclaimer that everyone must read, print out, sign and send with their payments or I will not ship to them(just covering myself as much as possible against any possible litigation).

Make the friggen straps that is a order for two .... I promise we all promise not to hold you your wife children your dogs cat hamster fish responsible for nuttin ....


Like JimWilson said ship when the legal BS is ready ....





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Ok,


I'm just not quite ready for orders yet. Tomorrow I should have my LLC in place. I'm just debating on what to do for a disclaimer and/or liability waiver. Once again, when I get to talk with the lawyer type I'll see which way is the best to go.


Not that I think any of you are lawsuit happy and you all should understand the nature of what I'm trying to do here. Just that since I'm not trying to make a living on selling these, I just have to make sure I don't lose my livelihood by offering these to you.Edited by: Victory Red

Judge,


The manufacture of this Tailgate strap is not responsible for MY stupidity.


Signed X

I wish it were that simple DmaxSub. The problem lies with how do I offer these to everyone who wants them without personal risk. Everytime I talk to a lawyer it's going to cost me, costs which I will be forced to add to the price of these.


Then I have to keep my personal identity, seperated from my corporate identity. This means all payments for the straps will have to be made to my company, all items purchased for these straps must come from a corporate account.


As was explained to me, a lawyer seeking $$$ will do all he can to pierce the veil of a corporation. So I need to be careful as possible to keep 'church and state' seperated. I think this is why more people don't go into business for themselves. It's a lot of BS and legwork.


So plain and simple, if you want these, you have to buy these through a corporate entity, and sign a liability waiver absolving the company from any personal or property damage incurred by the use of such product. Even still, an attempt can be made to sue. That's why you see the Inc, Co, LLP, LLC behind a company name. That's stating that it's it's own 'entity' seperate from any one living being.


All in all it's messed up. I just wanted to try something, which I did, then under request made a few for a couple others(but obviously not nearly enough). So here I sit wondering sometimes if I'm going in over my head.


What was once for fun, has now become a business venture. What the future holds is unknown. I can honestly say it's not nearly as fun as it once was, but once I get this all behind me I think it will be again.

Life shouldn't be this difficult. I'm no legal eagle, and I may be incorrect. But. IMHO


There is already a connection between Victory Red and the straps. No big "veil" When someone sues they look for deep pockets. They sue the corporation, President, VP,secretary, bag and paperboy. No deep pockets, no motivation to peak the interest of an attorney.


It sounds like your spending money getting advice from an attorney, and setting up a business. Now you have an investment in your new business. Now you need to sell lots of straps.


We are all familiar with you, we have gone thought the process of developing these straps with you day by day. We'll gladly sign your two page liability waiver.


If you saw these straps in a truck accessory store and you saw the "waiver form" what would you think ? I think most products have a label on their packaging stating their warranty for material defects AND limiting their liability to the replacement of the product.


When you see a sign on the back of a dump truck that says" Stay back 100 ft. We are not responsible for debris coming from the road". The sign discourages damage claims but has NO value in court.


If you have ever seen the straps on an old or foreign pickup truck, they LOOK about 1/4 as strong as yours.

I understand your concerns, Rick, and you certainly don't want to put your family at risk. Got my straps yesterday and put them on last night - great work! First time my tailgate's been on in a couple of months. Those straps are so well made and strong that an anchor bolt will pull out of the bed or gate or the gate will buckle before they fail. And none of that could possibly happen without a SERIOUS overloading of the system. However, there's no accounting for poor judgement and greedy attorneys.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif When and if you want a waiver, send it on and I'll gladly sign.

How come nobody else that sells aftermarket stuff needs a waiver signed?

VR... I think once you get the BS set up... go all out and make loads of these things. I think you can sell everything you make. We'll spread the word.

Red, I would bet there is a chance someone will see a set of yours and start to manufacture them. It might be a hassle to go through with this, but as Hoot said you could sell all you can make. Yes, you may have to jack the price to make it worthwhile, but with all the cable breakages I bet the market is unlimited once you advertise them. Would not making them out of stainless be more cost effective? I have a '94 Toyota winter rat with non-stainless straps, and they are one of the strongest parts of the truck.

IIIIIIIII got miiiiiiine yessssterrrrday. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


They look great...and I'm very pleased.


Thanks Rick.


JP

Hey VR,


Since you're setting up as a business anyway, consider accepting Paypal. Less hassle for everyone (you and us) and you get your bucks immediately. Just a thought. Count me in on the next round regardless.


Thanks again for your efforts (and screw the pinhead who dissed you for being cautious - who needs him? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif).

Rick,Drool on this!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/VR_Straps1.jpg


Yea, I know I just lowered myself, but I couldn’t help it.








WHAT A BUTTHEAD J/Khttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wink.gif


Dang those look sweet, hope you get everything set up soon VR. While you are in your lawyer mode, you need to get a US Pat. on those puppys soon!!!!

Well I'd love to start taking orders again. Two problems though I'm not official at this moment, nor do I have a bank account set up to receive funds(cannot do this until I get my EIN, probably Friday).
Actually, I wasn't suggesting you take the orders from your customers (us), only that you order the straps from the manufacturer. This way, once all the legal BS has been taken care of you already have them made up and ready to go out the door. This would shorten your life cycle on the 2nd run and provide instant return (read: money) when you can ship them.

I'm sorry this has started to become an unpleasant experience for you. I can imagine that it's certainly a load right now. But it seems as though you've tapped an unfulfilled market, one that currently has a great demand. Take solace in the fact that you have hit upon something unique and useful. Not all of us can say that we've ever done that in our lives. I know I certainly haven't... http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifEdited by: JimWilson

Actually, I wasn't suggesting you take the orders from your customers (us), only that you order the straps from the manufacturer.


Errr the problem is, Jim, Victory Red IS the manufacturer! he's been "hand-crafting" the straps.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Tom is right, these have been hand finished. Only the lower part(with the bend) and the upper have gone off to be professionally cut. The hinge and spring steel is done by hand.


Anyhow on the upside, my articles of organization have been approved and I've received my EIN. From this point on all questions regarding these straps should be directed to VR Stainless Straps, LLC or e-mail to VRStrap@wi.rr.com. I should have the papers in hand tomorrow. I need to allocate some investment funds for a proper business startup and or/equipment. A business bank account must be opened.


While it'd be great to go into full ordering and production there are still a few steps to be completed. In all honesty, the funds just don't exist to place a large order for these at this point. Plus, it could very well end up like last time where the amount needed would fall way short of demand. Also somes parts cannot be ordered until the corporation receives some checks and a debit/credit card. Using personal funds for these items would remove the protection I just spent the last few days forming, so it's not an option.





PayPal and my bank don't seem to get along real well for whatever reason. I need to call them and figure out what the issue is. It will be offered as an option as soon as possible.


Also there's the problem of offsetting the startup costs. While it's been less than expected it's also been a slight burden on resources. So would $52 or $53 a set seem unreasonable to help offset the startup costs?Edited by: Victory Red

Make it $69.95

I agree with Hoot. Frankly, I was just going to send you $60.00 for the set anyway. I have a buddy that wants to see them when I get them. He said he might like a pair also. When I told him the $60.00 vs. the low fifty number and why, he agreed hole-heartedly. You can not work for free. Now this added expence, hassle, and becoming more like work than the fun it was at the start. Whatever you charge, it's GOT to be more than a couple dollars over cost. I have no problem paying you for a set that you did all the work on, and I only need a few key strokes and BAME, I have them. That's why we don't mind paying YOU.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Steve

Rick


I hope you have material on hand ... Mill surcharge on 301 stainless is .41 cents a pound ...


Scrap is .71 cents a pound delivered in Pa .... You may have to go up a lil more ,price the stock buddy ... You got the spring steel just in time ...





Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifEdited by: Mackin

Hoot,


My son has a response to your pricing.


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/uploads/6A8_DCP_0756e.jpg


Needless to say that price seems excessive in my book. I'd say at least 1/4th of the people that have my straps sent more than I asked for.


This isn't the greatest invention since sliced bread. Just something I'm glad to do, was able to do, make a few extra dollars on(eventually) for more toys I really don't need, just want.

Mackin,


I'm sure you're dead on. As a matter of fact I read an article on how scrap material is getting more valuable due to demand. The last quote I had is a few weeks old now.


Now something else to worry about, underbidding my own costs. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif Edited by: Victory Red

Victory Red;
I was going to pay $150 for two sets, but if you think that`s too much. I`ll pay $75 per sethttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Just let me know when you need the munna sent to you!

Mike

I had a set on order..........lemme know ASAP http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


I need to support a fellow members business venture. PLUS I WANT A SET.............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

VR,


A. Tell that butthead who hassled you to GTH.


B. Sell them for a price that'll take into consideration estimated raw product price increases (a la Mackin) and your labor (time is money). For God's sake, don't GIVE the things away!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif $60-65 a set sounds reasonable, and you can make some $$.


C. Even though a patent costs, what, about $5000 (?), I'd definitely look into that...think of all the Chevy and GMC trucks out there that would need these....WOW!!! Think of the possibilities...and if GM were to ever get sued over those wimpy cables (you never know) you'd have the ready-made solution for the recall. Heck, maybe GM would even buy the idea for $$....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


D. You could treat the 1st batch as a "test run" and see just how much abuse they take and their longevity, but that raises the possibility some dishonest person or company out there would steal your idea and market them before you....plus you'd have all these guys from the forum going ape-s**t wondering when you'd sell them again!!!


E. Finally, how do I get on your list, and where do I sign the waiver? *LOL* What a great idea!!!


Tom

Hey VR,


Since you're setting up as a business anyway, consider accepting Paypal. Less hassle for everyone (you and us) and you get your bucks immediately. Just a thought. Count me in on the next round regardless.


Thanks again for your efforts (and screw the pinhead who dissed you for being cautious - who needs him? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif).








Screw what pinhead ???


I don't believe any one dissed Victory Red for being cautious.

Ok,


The price adjustment has been settled on. The new pricing is $59.95 per set, shipped, due to raw material price increases and other business related expenses.


At the very least, a warning/disclaimer or a liability waiver will need to be included since once these are received there is no control over what an individual does with them.


Orders will start to be accepted again in the very near future.

Ok,


The price adjustment has been settled on. The new pricing is $59.95 per set, shipped, due to raw material price increases and other business related expenses.








http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif That sounds like a fair price to me. Just give the nod and I will send the $$.

WHAT!!!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Shocked.gif


YOU CAN'T BE SERIOUS!!!!!


$59.95!!!!!

















I think that's still a little low!


I hope you're making enough on them.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif














Kevin





Edited by: Fireman

Screw what pinhead ???


I don't believe any one dissed Victory Red for being cautious.








Then you should go back and read this thread from the start. And this time pay closer attention to VR's post of 12 January 2004 at 11:25am :





On a side note I had one person e-mail me privately stating he's glad he found out I'm not a man of my word and that he's glad he found out sooner than later.





Or, maybe this post:





VR,


A. Tell that butthead who hassled you to GTH.





Or how 'bout this one from another thread:





And to the person that e-mailed Rick and said he wasn't a man of his word. You, Sir, are an idiot. In no way, shape or form does Rick deserve that kind of shabby treatment. Why don't you be a man about it and post your misgivings about Rick publicly. There is no excuse for your back-door attacks.





Screw THAT pinhead.

Thanks again for your efforts (and screw the pinhead who dissed you for being cautious - who needs him? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Down.gif).








You confused me.. I HAD read the whole thread and it sounded to me that someone e-mailed VR and accused him of being dishonest Not overly cautious since it took him a whole month to ship the straps. (I thought that a month was fine, especially with the daily updates. He had my check and I wasn't worried.)Edited by: Duallyvette

ok, enough bad blood directed towards one upset person that wasn't able to order the straps as he had hoped.


Paperwork for the organization of VR Stainless Straps, LLC was received.


A few more loose ends must be addressed before the doors officially open and orders processed.


The most important are warnings(product contract language).


Warnings like,


DO NOT EXCEED MANUFACTURER'S RATED TAILGATE CAPACITY


USE CAUTION WHEN OPENING OR CLOSING TAILGATE


USE CAUTION WHEN LOADING OR UNLOADING VEHICLE


KEEP BODY PARTS/CLOTHING CLEAR OF STRAPS WHEN OPENING OR CLOSING TAILGATE. LOOSE CLOTHING OR BODILY PARTS CAN BE CAUGHT AND PINCHED CAUSING SEVERE BODILY HARM


DO NOT MOVE VEHICLE WITH UNSECURED LOAD AND TAILGATE IN THE DOWN POSITION


PERFORM PRE-LOAD AND BEFORE UNLOAD INSPECTIONS OF THE STRAPS LOOKING FOR SIGNS OF WEAR OR DAMAGE(INCLUDING OEM MOUNT POINTS WHERE STRAPS ARE ATTACHED). IF ANY SIGNS OF DAMAGE ARE PRESENT OR IF IN DOUBT, DO NOT PLACE WEIGHT UPON TAILGATE WHICH COULD RESULT IN PERSONAL AND/OR PROPERTY DAMAGE.


THESE ARE SOLELY INTENDED AS CORROSION RESISTANT REPLACEMENTS. THEY DO NOT INCREASE THE WEIGHT CAPACITY RATINGS EXCEEDING THOSE OF VEHICLE MANUFACTURER.


DO NOT LOAD OR UNLOAD VEHICLE UNLESS BOTH STRAPS ARE AT FULL EXTENDED(TAILGATE OPEN) POSITION. IF BOTH STRAPS ARE NOT AT A FULL OPEN POSITION DO NOT LOAD VEHICLE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.






The Seller(VR Stainless Straps, LLC) disclaims any warranty and expressly disclaims any liability for personal injury or property damages. The Buyer acknowledges and agrees that the disclaimer of any liability for personal injury or property damage is a material term for this agreement and the Buyer agrees to indemnify the Seller and to hold the seller harmless from any claim related to the item of the equipment purchased. Under no circumstances will the Seller be liable for any damages or expenses by reason of use or sale of any such equipment.


______________ ___________


Buyers Signature Date


Anything else obvious that is being missed here?


Edited by: Victory Red

On a Sears hairdryer -- Do not use while sleeping.


(Dang, and that's the only time I have to work on my hair.)


On a bag of Fritos -- You could be a winner! No purchase necessary.Details inside.
(the shoplifter special)?


On a bar of Dial soap -- "Directions: Use like regular soap."
(and that would be how???....)


On some Swanson frozen dinners -- "Serving suggestion: Defrost."
(but, it's "just" a suggestion).


On Tesco's Tiramisu dessert (printed on bottom) -- "Do not turn upside down."
(well...duh, a bit late, huh)!


On Marks &Spencer Bread Pudding -- "Product will be hot after heating."
(...and you thought????...)


On packaging for a Rowenta iron -- "Do not iron clothes on body."
(but wouldn't this save me more time)?


On Boot's Children Cough Medicine -- "Do not drive a car or operate machinery after taking this medication."


(We could do a lot to reduce the rate of construction accidents if we could just get those 5-year-olds with head-colds off those forklifts.)


On Nytol Sleep Aid -- "Warning: May cause drowsiness."
(and...I'm taking this because???....)


On most brands of Christmas lights -- "For indoor or outdoor use only."
(as opposed to...what)?


On a Japanese food processor -- "Not to be used for the other use."
(now, somebody out there, help me on this. I'm a bit curious.)


On Sainsbury's peanuts -- "Warning: contains nuts."
(talk about a news flash)


On an American Airlines packet of nuts -- "Instructions: Open packet, eat nuts."
(Step 3: maybe, uh...fly Delta?)


On a child's Superman costume -- "Wearing of this garment does not enable you to fly."
(I don't blame the company. I blame the parents for this one.)


On a Swedish chainsaw -- "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."
(Oh my God...was there a lot of this happening somewhere?)

In all seriousness though, it'll just take one bad occurence to stop this offering.


In order to open the doors officially and start processing orders this type of contract and user guideline must be in place, read, agreed and signed and delivered with payment or mailed seperately if using credit card by users of the VR Stainless Strap.

Sorry Rick.


I'm not trying to make fun of the situation that you are in. Those where in an E-mail that I got at work today. When I saw your post I just could not help myself.


The straps are working great.


Thanks

You confused me.. I HAD read the whole thread and it sounded to me that someone e-mailed VR and accused him of being dishonest Not overly cautious since it took him a whole month to ship the straps. (I thought that a month was fine, especially with the daily updates. He had my check and I wasn't worried.)





Sorry for the confusion - I probably took your post the wrong way.


It appeared to me that the guy was pissed because VR decided to delay production of the straps - and that delay was driven by a perceived need to be more (legally) cautious. So he accused VR of being dishonest because he had promised more shipments and this guy felt he was getting left out.


I could be wrong, though.


Regardless of the motive, I suspect the guy now feels like a shmuck after seeing the reactions on the board. Meanwhile, VR is taking the high road on this - further disproving the allegations against his character.

Errr the problem is, Jim, Victory Red IS the manufacturer! he's been "hand-crafting" the straps.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif
This is merely a matter of semantics. Rick does the finish work himself, but he has to send out for some parts to be cut (that's the "manufacture" I was alluding to). I actually do know the entire process -- I've been following ALL the threads -- so I guess it was just a wording issue. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

<font color="red">Anything else obvious that is being missed here?</font>





Looks good to me, where do I signhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gifhttp://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Question.gif

On a Sears hairdryer -- Do not use while sleeping.
(Dang, and that's the only time I have to work on my hair.)
[snip]
Those were funny. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I found this thread through a link over at MCT. I as well as a couple other members are very interested in purchasing a set. I have researched all of your threads about this product and am very pleased with the engineering that you have put into this product. I (as a designer myself) was looking into doing something of the sort, but since you have already done all the guesswork, my money is yours. Keep us posted!

Things are being moved along as quickly as possible but for reasons hashed and rehashed several times over, this isn't something to just jump into.


At the current standstill, there is nothing legally stopping me from taking orders and having the pieces manufactured, although a few odd's and ends need to be in place before the product can be shipped out.


There is not enough capital funds allocated in startup expenditures to produce near enough of these straps to meet anywhere near expected demand. So that would be somewhat futile.


All efforts are being made to get this product to potential buyers as soon as possible.


Also, risks to the buyers is being examined and collected by making sure the buyers are aware in clear and concise terms of what the purpose and intent of these straps are. Warnings need to be clear and well worded to the fact that these are offered as a corrosion resistant product(which general belief is to be the main reason for failure) and not that there is any added weight capacity or strength over the OEM design.

Rick, do you want all of us who have the straps to fill out the form? Just post the finished document somewhere and I will sign it. Again, nice job on the strap.

Rick,


Sent my order in the 12th. Happy to pay the $59.95. If you'll post the form, I'll sign it, and forward the funds tomorrow morning. Like the looks of the product, feel the price is more than fair, and absolutely willing to pay immediately.

silatman,


I apologize for the abrupt cancellations of the orders. I felt it was something that needed to be done for obvious reasons. As for those that have trial sets, it's your call, obviously I cannot mandate, and for all purposes, it's not the 'regulars' here that concern me. You've all dealt, struggled, waited and were extremely pleasant. It's the unknown people I have concerns with.


Not that their of any lesser quality people mind you, just that everyone who's a regular here knows who and what am I and that they were putting themselves out for an untested product. It's because of your constant(incessant maybe?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif) push for me to follow through that you have the prototype sets in hand. For that and your feedback and support I will be always grateful.


I'd prefer not to collect for future orders until a firm official start up date is in line and a tentative ship date. Thanks for the trust in me thoughEdited by: Victory Red

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<TD class=bold width="20%" background="" bgColor=#f8f7ef><A name=40996></A>Victory Red</TD></TR></T></TABLE>Just put my VR straps on ,good thing ,while taking off my right factory cable it snapped in my hand,straps look great,will keep you posted,mike

VR,

No need to be sorry, and I hope I did not seem abrupt. I just wanted to make certain I was on the list, and really would be happy to pay now to help in a small way with the startup costs.

Rick ...


Plan to install my set of straps later on today ... if you need me to sign something, send it out, will be happy to do so .... for those that haven't actually seen a set, Rick is putting out a quality product, one I wll be proud to have on my truck.


Jim

silatman, np here, not that thin skinned.


It'd be great to open the doors so to speak and begin accepting pre-orders and payments for these to expedite the turnaround time. The problem lies in how far the corporation needs to go to protect itself against potential legal issues. If a simple warning/disclaimer/usage guideline needs to be included that's no problem. That would be sent along with the product. If a waiver is the recommended course, that would need to be included with the payment(or before the product could be shipped to the buyer), which would be an additional hassle to the buyer.


It'd be nice to be able to avoid all these legalities, but that is just the nature of today's world.

Victory Red, do your straps lock into place when they're extended?


Guess this is a step in another direction, eh?


Thanks.


Zip

Zip,


Currently they do not have a mechanism to lock into a full extended position. Should there prove to be a demand for this feature down the line, the product can be altered to allow for such a feature.


What additionial cost associated with it has never been researched.

I know I am new here, but I have looked at all of your work on this product. As a mechanical designer myself, I see you have done your homework. When and if you are ready to make them available again, I am more than ready to drop my dime. And signing a waiver would be absolutely no problem!

Rednekid,


They are currently available again. Look for a posting that says VR Strap Pre-Order

Please read through the site or contact the administrator prior to attempting to advertise products .... When in doubt ask ....


Thanks








I have revised the policy of the forum with regard to Authorized Vendors. Many users were under the impression the forum had a business relationship with Authorized Vendors which is not the case. Therefore authorized vendors have been removed in the interest of simplicity. If you are NOT a supporting vendor you may still continue to advertise your products and/or services in the vendor forum. However you are no longer required to submit a greeting or email to the site for prior approval. Please understand the Vendor Forum Rules (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=250&amp;PN=1) still apply so please post accordingly.







If you are interested in becoming a supporting vendor please see the second post of the Following Thread (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=250&amp;PN=1).







Diesel Place



Edited by: Mackin

Hey victory red, im wondering if you can help me out, I have a Reading classic II all aluminum utility body on my 03 D/A Silverado, the body is about a year old and I broke 2 straps already. If I can send you dimentions and possibly a new strap, would you be able to make me a set? I would really apreciate it





Thanks!

Because I can,


More than likely a set could be fabbed up just for you. The only issue is although I could get the length dimension the fold point could be a little tricky without knowing where the cables fold. I may have to try and find a Reading dealer in the Milwaukee area to test them.





So yes it can be done, but without knowing clearance, bend radius it'll be difficult.

Wow I just looked up some quick info. I find it hard to believe that even a commercial grade box even uses those cheesy cables.

That would be fantastic! Ill try to get as many measurements, and take some pictures this weekend, and post the info here, Thanks again!