Just out of curiosity, what's your load/weight capacity of your tires. I really want to go a different route from the Toyo MT's to a more road friendly tire. I am down to Hankook ATM/RF10's, Nitto Terra Grappler's, 285/70R17's, both E/3750lbs @80psi. A tire I really like, but has a 3195lb E rating @80psi, Cooper Zeon LTZ's, 285/70R17's. Just wondering if the 550lb difference is of concern/why such a difference if both are E rated, same size. Thought I'd post in the towing section vs. tire section to get more "towing" point of views. Thanks, Chris

Never mind the Cooper Zeon LTZ's, the tire size I listed is not listed any more? Guess they stopped making it. So I guess more of a Nitto TG vs. Hankook for towing applications? Any experience? Chris

I have some of those 3195 E rated tires. I aslo just had 5 grand worth of damage repaired from a tire issue. I want to go with the Nitto Dura Grapplers in 285/17's for the extra capacity. I do haul heavy, right at the capacity of the curent tires. That may have had something to do with the tire issue. I never overloaded them and still had 2 of them seperate and come apart. If you do not tow real heavy, I think the lower rated E tires would be fine.

Thanks, I guess you answered any doubt in my mind. Sux about the damage! My 5ver is just under 14K lbs. loaded. That's as heavy as it gets for me. I'm really leaning towards the Nitto Terra Grappler's. Chris

I've got the TG's and I tow heavy with them. I load them with about 3500's a piece on them and haven't had any problems towing with them.

Two complaints though, they felt pretty floaty for the first couple thousand miles. They wear like drag slicks, I've got 21,000 miles on them and might make it to 25,000 before I hit the belts.

I'm going with the hankook's next time, the only other tire out there with the load rating these tires have is the toyo's and they have been known to wear decently, just a bit more expensive.

I got over 50k miles out of my last set of BFG's/E-rated..rotated every 5k.. that's the only brand I've ever used on any of my trucks. No problems other than a nail or two. I'd rather go with the higher psi rated tire..better to have the capacity and not need it than the other way around. My .02

You're comparing apples to oranges, all E rated tires are rated to 80 psi, you must be thinking of D load range which are only 65 psi. We're talking about the actual weight rating of the tire within the E range. BFG's are only rated to 3195 in an E range. The nitto's, toyo's, and hankooks are all rated to 3750 lb's comparing the same 285/70/17's.

If tire safety is the concern, don't forget about your rims.
The rims should have a weight rating at least equal to that of your tire, AND it has the recommended width for the tire mounted to it.

You're comparing apples to oranges, all E rated tires are rated to 80 psi, you must be thinking of D load range which are only 65 psi. We're talking about the actual weight rating of the tire within the E range. BFG's are only rated to 3195 in an E range. The nitto's, toyo's, and hankooks are all rated to 3750 lb's comparing the same 285/70/17's.


This is not quite true. The E rated BFG's I have are only 65 psi tires. This is probably why the are low on the capacity side too.

You're comparing apples to oranges, all E rated tires are rated to 80 psi, you must be thinking of D load range which are only 65 psi. We're talking about the actual weight rating of the tire within the E range. BFG's are only rated to 3195 in an E range. The nitto's, toyo's, and hankooks are all rated to 3750 lb's comparing the same 285/70/17's.
Ok..what I meant to say is I'd rather go with the tire that has a higher load capacity. And unless my vision is bad or I'm using the old math again instead of the new math..the sidewall of my BFG's/E says 3750 on the side.

Too bad about the TG LMM-Guy, I saw a set of Hankook's on a Tacoma the other day, didn't seem to look as nice as on the internet, could've been the truck though!:D Plus it had the whitewalls out, I don't like that. I could use a new set of tires right now, but I'm going to wait until later this summer/fall. The Toyo MT's have done fine, 31K miles so far, but can't afford 2 years worth of driving and replacing a $300 tire. Plus they are a HEAVY tire, anywhere from 25-15lbs heavier per tire than others I've been looking at. Went camping this weekend at Holiday World in Indiana, man these Toyo's were humming going down the road at 70-75mph! It was giving me and my wife a headache, couple more trips maybe she'll agree sooner I need new tires just from the noise alone!:cool: Chris


According to BFG's website, 285/70R17's are listed twice on the AT's, one at 80psi, E rated, one at 65psi, D rated, both 3195lbs? Both have a 121 rating, which is around the 3195 load. 124-125 is usually around 3750, 128's like my Toyo's are 3975lbs. Chris

Upon a second look..my tires are 285/75/16!!:eek: Guess I shoulda stayed outta this one..but again I digress.

I have the Michelin LTX-AT2 on my rears, 245/75/17. Crap. Noisy and throw rocks. I had them all the way around, but they kept throwing little rocks into my rear fenders. The edges have open blocks that pick up pebbles and toss them.

So, I switched to Cooper Discoverer H/Ts up front. The truck loves them. Excellent highway tire. I will put them on the rear also, when the Michelins run down. The blocky tread of the LTXs also create a bit of a vibration, just a hum at most. But I could feel that go away from the steering wheel when I changed to the Coopers.

I got over 50k miles out of my last set of BFG's/E-rated..rotated every 5k.. that's the only brand I've ever used on any of my trucks. No problems other than a nail or two. I'd rather go with the higher psi rated tire..better to have the capacity and not need it than the other way around. My .02

You're already well over your weight rating on the pickup, so tires are not even an issue. You can raise the load limit of the tires, but not the truck - until you switch to a dually. Your Gearbox and goodies is right at the limit of a 3500DRW.

You're already well over your weight rating on the pickup, so tires are not even an issue. You can raise the load limit of the tires, but not the truck - until you switch to a dually. Your Gearbox and goodies is right at the limit of a 3500DRW.

I hope you're kidding, this has been hashed out over and over. Dually's have the same engine, tranny, rear end and frame as any of the 2500 or 3500 SRW trucks. The only difference is the dual wheels and the springs.

Upgrade the tires, wheels, and rear springs and you can increase the real world safe weight limit of the truck.

The tires are the limiting factor of what you can safely tow with a SRW truck.

I hope you're kidding, this has been hashed out over and over. Dually's have the same engine, tranny, rear end and frame as any of the 2500 or 3500 SRW trucks. The only difference is the dual wheels and the springs.

Upgrade the tires, wheels, and rear springs and you can increase the real world safe weight limit of the truck.

The tires are the limiting factor of what you can safely tow with a SRW truck.
Well, my towing limit it 16,300. Yours is 14,500. Your trailer weighs almost 11,000 DRY. No fluids, no utensils, plates, cups, quads, buggies, clothes, TVs, etc. You might trip across a public scale sometime when you are headed out. I think you would be shocked. A friend has a 3305 WW with two quads and a Rhino. Loaded to go on a trip, the trailer is 16,000 on the scale.

The other thing is the GCWR - gross COMBINATION weight. With the trailer even just slightly over the tow rating and the pickup loaded with bodies and other incidentals. You would be over there also.

Insurance is watching this stuff explicitly. If you are over either limits by 1 pound they don't have to cover your claim. IF you had to claim anything.

I was at an accident scene the other day with a 2500 and a 39' Raptor. The guy had mis-judged and slid into an intersection. T-boned a passenger car and flipped it over. Minor injuries, but the people in the sedan were carted off to the hospital. Naturally, the guy was on the phone at the scene to his insurance. Progressive had one of their little hybrids in the area that was getting done with an estimate. He rolls up at the scene before the tow truck even got there. Starts taking pictures. Gets on the phone and then tells the guy they are paying for the tow, but having it weighed prior to stopping at the tow yard.

In asking why, the claims adjuster said they are happily picking up the tow bill for the extra trip to the scales on these vehicles. Once they are weighed and found to be over the mfg specs, they void the policy per the "fine print" that says not to do it.

So now the guy is out of pocket for medical bills, repairs, everything. Sign of the times. Just a heads-up.

Just because the truck CAN tow the load - doesn't always mean it SHOULD.

Take off the tin foil hat and lets separate the lawyer crap from the physics. I know exactly what my truck is rated for and I know exactly what my trailer weights. There for I know I'm over the sticker weight but well under what the equipment is capable of.

I NEVER said it made your truck legally able to pull more weight, that wasn't what the OP was asking about. He was asking about load rating's of tires.

Your experience with your insurance company is NOT common, in fact I would say it's ultra rare. I'm not going down this road with you because it doesn't go ANYWHERE.

You simply stated false information and I called you on it, now you're trying to change the subject to cover up that fact.

I like my Hankook Dynapro's. Haven't towed with them as they are on my gasser. Check my garage for pics, they are 265/75/16s. They are P metric though, so not LT. Quiet and handle really well. I think they look pretty good, although I have seen the Hankook's on other vehicles and don't think they look good.

Take off the tin foil hat and lets separate the lawyer crap from the physics. I know exactly what my truck is rated for and I know exactly what my trailer weights. There for I know I'm over the sticker weight but well under what the equipment is capable of.

I NEVER said it made your truck legally able to pull more weight, that wasn't what the OP was asking about. He was asking about load rating's of tires.

Your experience with your insurance company is NOT common, in fact I would say it's ultra rare. I'm not going down this road with you because it doesn't go ANYWHERE.

You simply stated false information and I called you on it, now you're trying to change the subject to cover up that fact.
Wow. If you need to get defensive, that's OK. In through the nose, out through the mouth. I merely pointed out facts, which you agree with - so I don't know why you're all twisted. You KNOW you're using the truck over it's published limits. I guess I called YOU on using the truck out of it's context. But, it's YOUR truck and YOUR trailer and you can do whatever you want. I was just posting some first-hand info to try to caution everyone, not just yourself. Just trying to help.

In asking about tires, I used to manage our family tire shop a few years back. So I get that bigger load limts are safer and such, but not when it's over the published limits. I have also been pulling trailers since before I could legally drive. The one constant thing I found to make pulling trailers successful is using the proper tow rig for the trailer/load given.

Since you know you are right, or need to be anyway, I don't see why you care what I offer up anyhow. I personally don't CARE what you do with your truck. Just didn't know if you knew the consequences. Now you do.

pa32rt is correct, insurance companies are more often than not going to void claims if they can, especially some of the cheaper or smaller firms. I dealt with them for years and it was the exception but not anymore. You need to be very careful about weight limits, it isn't what can be safely towed, it is what the sticker says. Have a good day.

What does insurance have to do with tires? :offtopic: I was interested in tires. Stay on topic...

What does insurance have to do with tires? :offtopic: I was interested in tires. Stay on topic...


It always turns into a pissing match, and then insurance companies always get drug into it. Everybody is skeerked that they are going to get sued for not following the factory door sticker for weights. But they will only follow the weight portion of the sticker, even when the sticker gives tires size recommendations also. Why are we not skeered about running different size tires than what the factory says?

You're already well over your weight rating on the pickup, so tires are not even an issue. You can raise the load limit of the tires, but not the truck - until you switch to a dually. Your Gearbox and goodies is right at the limit of a 3500DRW.
Why is it every guy with a dually thinks that's always the solution..a truck with training wheels?:eek: If I did that I'd have to get out of the truck every time I get a Double-Quarter Pounder/large fries/vanilla shake at McDonald's instead of going thru the drive-thru..oh yeah..almost forgot the diet coke!! Sorry... the pot looked like it was about to overflow so I thought I 'd stir it..:D

Why is it every guy with a dually thinks that's always the solution..a truck with training wheels?:eek: If I did that I'd have to get out of the truck every time I get a Double-Quarter Pounder/large fries/vanilla shake at McDonald's instead of going thru the drive-thru..oh yeah..almost forgot the diet coke!! Sorry... the pot looked like it was about to overflow so I thought I 'd stir it..:D


HAAAA!!!!!!!!!!! I get mine with a Diet Coke too!!!!!!!!!!!!! If we had duallies we could get a regular Coke!

Ah, so it's not ignorance on your part - it's jealousy. Take your stabs all you want. It doesn't change the fact that I have a real set of tires/wheels out back.

BTW, what happens if you get a rear flat while towing your trailer out in the middle of nowhere? The front suspension, cab, tailgate, engine and trans are about the only similarities between your little truck and my big one.

One day you'll step up to the big leagues and find out why people tow with duallys.

EDIT: I will say I was wrong in that you guys have 3500s instead of the usual 2500s. Good for you for not doing the regular 2500 short beds. My bad on that part. Again, though, if you ever tow with a DRW, you will know why guys switch to them.

The front suspension, cab, tailgate, engine and trans are about the only similarities between your little truck and my big one.

Don't forget the frame, axle, brakes, and the list goes on. It's easier to list what's different which is just the dual wheels, and the rear spring.

The facts are the tires and wheels are the limiting factor, address this issue and you can tow heavier than the sticker and your truck will not spontaneously explode.

The facts are that most of us drive our trucks everyday and tow a few times a year. So it makes zero sense to deal with a truck that is 2 foot longer and 2 foot wider just so you feel better about pulling your trailer a couple times a year. Within reason of course, which is what we are trying to discuss here is the actual nuts and bolts of making our rigs safe not legal to tow above the sticker.

Within reason of course, which is what we are trying to discuss here is the actual nuts and bolts of making our rigs safe not legal to tow above the sticker.
Right. My point was - if you are overloading the truck, what difference does the tire(s) make? Which, is what started this whole thing.

But - another good point. You guys probably don't tow every week or other week like I do. I pull all kinds of trailers all the time and have seen first-hand why a dually is the best tow vehicle.

However, the insurance thing is very real. If you owned an insurance company during THESE times, ESPECIALLY IN CALIFORNIA, wouldn't you be watching the fine print??? If someone is out of policy and you don't HAVE to cover their claim, it may be the difference between staying open another month or year. I saw it first hand and just wanted to throw it out there so that some of these people have a heads-up. I see the 2500s pulling loads they are not LEGALLY supposed to all the time.

And, speaking of tires, I was just at the dealership picking up the wife's Yukon after some work. They had denied a new vehicle claim for wheel bearing failure and tie-rod failure from the 37" tires and lift. Still think it CAN'T happen?

What do you need towed, I think my 4500 might do it?? Ha Ha.

What do you need towed, I think my 4500 might do it?? Ha Ha.


You big bully, go back to the medium duty section. LOL! You need to leave us "kids" alone.

What do you need towed, I think my 4500 might do it?? Ha Ha.

You big bully, go back to the medium duty section. LOL! You need to leave us "kids" alone.
:lol2:

while some stones were thrown and some egos bruised and a tear shed with this thread...bottom line is...it does not matter how many times you tow your trailer, it doesn't matter if your trucks a daily driver, a garage ornament etc etc...what matters is your safe to yourself and others NO MATTER how you use the truck...

Can you tow with a short bed 2500? sure...can you do it safe?? sure as long as it is not too large for your truck. If a situation would arise while towing and an evasive move was needed to avoid catastrophe....would a dually handle that better? Sure...towing with a dually won't put you out of harms way either tho..anything can happen at any given time...it is always better to be prepared for worst case, than hope that only happens to the other guy.

D/AChris, have you looked into Toyo Tires?
Toyo A/T LT 285/70R/17 E is rated @ 3750 and you can add 200lbs to that if you go with the Toyo A/T LT 285/75R/17 E..........

while some stones were thrown and some egos bruised and a tear shed with this thread...bottom line is...it does not matter how many times you tow your trailer, it doesn't matter if your trucks a daily driver, a garage ornament etc etc...what matters is your safe to yourself and others NO MATTER how you use the truck...

Can you tow with a short bed 2500? sure...can you do it safe?? sure as long as it is not too large for your truck. If a situation would arise while towing and an evasive move was needed to avoid catastrophe....would a dually handle that better? Sure...towing with a dually won't put you out of harms way either tho..anything can happen at any given time...it is always better to be prepared for worst case, than hope that only happens to the other guy.
Absolutely correct.

It was not my point to say duallys are the end-all be-all of towing. Sure, they physically tow better because that is what they were bred for. But, a 2500 is no slouch by any means.

My point was just to get people thinking above and beyond what they hook to their truck, whatever it may be. Also to think of any legal issues that can and will come up in todays world.

Sons and daughters don't know to ask daddy if he is sure he wants to pull that load with that truck with them on board. This was the essence of my point. Just to be safe rather than sorry. If ONE person avoids a possible tradjedy due to some information, it's a positive message.

Almost worse than RV.net :D

Is this the point where we join hands around the magical dual wheel axle and sing kumbaya?

My only grief with this thread is the sheer volume of ignorance to talk about the FACTS and technicalities of what it takes to tow safely.

This is much worse than RV.net.

Is this the point where we join hands around the magical dual wheel axle and sing kumbaya?

My only grief with this thread is the sheer volume of ignorance to talk about the FACTS and technicalities of what it takes to tow safely.

This is much worse than RV.net.

One wonders why you'd say that when you're the main contributor to the ignorance. It's amazing to me, in the short time I've been here, the sheer volume of otherwise rational people who insist on banging on their chest and giving Tarzan calls on this forum. I understand that there's a quantity of truck fans who like to mod their truck with custom wheels and tire setups, however there's also a quantity who tow regularly and as responsible tow-ers want to do so safely, and never the twain shall meet. Toy trucks are just that. Toys. They should not be used to tow.. I've learned this lesson the expensive way. Trucks set-up for towing are given specific Towing capacity, GCWR and payload for a reason. I've never been to RV.net, but the characterization you're using makes me think that experience talks more often over there than here.... Maybe I'll go check out that forum.... I'd rather rely on experience than someone's assertion of "what will work", or the fuzzy math that people use to justify towing overload by swapping on heavier duty wheels... or tires. Anyone who ever towed beyond the means of their truck and survived was lucky, including myself. The wise ones choose not to make that a habit.

OK, time for me to throw in my $.02!

Everyone who tows should seek out a weigh station that can weigh each tire separately. At a get together of Montana owners last fall, they had a guy who traveled from place to place doing just that. He weighed each tire separately on the tow vehicle and the trailer, then you took your trailer to your site, disconnected and came back to have the tow vehicle re-weighed. This was an eye opening experience for a lot people, myself included. One thing I found out, my truck is 125 pounds over mfg recommendations on the front axle (coincidentally, just about the weight of my winch) when the trailer is hooked up!

Just out of curiosity, what's your load/weight capacity of your tires. I really want to go a different route from the Toyo MT's to a more road friendly tire. I am down to Hankook ATM/RF10's, Nitto Terra Grappler's, 285/70R17's, both E/3750lbs @80psi. A tire I really like, but has a 3195lb E rating @80psi, Cooper Zeon LTZ's, 285/70R17's. Just wondering if the 550lb difference is of concern/why such a difference if both are E rated, same size. Thought I'd post in the towing section vs. tire section to get more "towing" point of views. Thanks, Chris

Never mind the Cooper Zeon LTZ's, the tire size I listed is not listed any more? Guess they stopped making it. So I guess more of a Nitto TG vs. Hankook for towing applications? Any experience? Chris


to get back on point here, (after a bunch of B.S.)............

have you made a decision here Chris?