Why does anyone want to "re-route" the PCV, the idea behind it is to keep a slightly negative (vacumm) pressure in the crankcase, this helps the rings seal better. If you have a positive pressure you will blow out more oil (raising consumption thru additional leaks and oil burning), and actually hurt the ring seal which causes more crankcase pressure and so on and on....... The benefit that I see advertised most of the time is that it keeps the intake from "gumming" up with oil from the crankcase. Gumming up of the intake should not be a problem if you run a synthetic based oil. Now I will give you my truck is not "hopped" up as most however I run extended changes and only have to add oil when I change the filters. Now I will also admit that in a competition situation with high boost, keeping a negative crankcase pressure is just not possible and to keep from leaking out all the seals increasing the venting capacity of the motor and dumping into a catch can is needed but most of us do not spend a lot of time in that mode, we simply drive and play with our trucks on the street or off road. Any thoughts? Have a good day.

my truck runs synthetic oil and its still a nasty mess in the intake

You mentioned some of the reason I haven't done it. The intake won't gun up if you block the EGR that is the main cause of it. There have been pics posted of an intake that had just the EGR block at like 30K. After another 30K or so the intake was removed and it was mostly clean. The oil build up in the intake has some negative affects, but unless its a comp only or mostly truck I don't think blocking the PCV is a really beneficial.

my truck runs synthetic oil and its still a nasty mess in the intake

Is your EGR blocked?

crankcase pressure doesnt seal the rings....cylinder pressure does

and as for synthetic oil being the "cure".... its not because i run 2 VVT dmax's that have only used Amsoil and their filters and it still makes a mess of the compressor housing and intercooler pipes with the PCV hooked up.

PCV Re-Route is a good deal in my books, just got it put on yesterday!

FYI All of your big diesels (cummins, cat) have it vented to the outside. The only reason that its vented into the intake is for the emissions. This is actually a bad thing because it is routed in pre-turbo, this allows the oil droplets to impact the edge of the compressor wheel. Over time this will dull that leading edge causing a decrease in performance and efficiency. Also all that oil is pushed into the intercooler where the air slows, so there you will have pooling of oil... again hurting the effectiveness. And for the last thing... for combustion to happen you need the right mixture of air and fuel, so by letting oil blow in your changing that mixture. Again, not efficient.
Hope this helps you...

I personally have no faith in the pcv rerought others have had luck with it but not me. My truck puked oil every where after all I read about the rerought I was in denial for a few days on the location of the oil leak. So after a few days I put it back to the factory set up and no more oil I pulled the Mouth Piece no oil there nether now she’s good to go.

crankcase pressure doesnt seal the rings....cylinder pressure does

and as for synthetic oil being the "cure".... its not because i run 2 VVT dmax's that have only used Amsoil and their filters and it still makes a mess of the compressor housing and intercooler pipes with the PCV hooked up.
You telling me the only time the rings need to seal is on the cumbustion/power stroke? Induction doesn't matter? Call up Sealed Power see what they say on that one.

Synthetic oil holds up to heat better and leaves less residue than mineral based oils.

FYI All of your big diesels (cummins, cat) have it vented to the outside. The only reason that its vented into the intake is for the emissions. This is actually a bad thing because it is routed in pre-turbo, this allows the oil droplets to impact the edge of the compressor wheel. Over time this will dull that leading edge causing a decrease in performance and efficiency. Also all that oil is pushed into the intercooler where the air slows, so there you will have pooling of oil... again hurting the effectiveness. And for the last thing... for combustion to happen you need the right mixture of air and fuel, so by letting oil blow in your changing that mixture. Again, not efficient.
Hope this helps you...

"Droplets of oil impacting the compressor wheel"? How much oil does your truck use!

Actually a fluid in the intercooler will improve the effieciency of the heat transfer......until you get to the point of restricting the volume of air passing thru, but there again how much oil is your truck passing?

How much oil do you figure you are passing to change the mixture? You have to be realistic when arguing your point. Hope this helps you.

Moved to Fuel System, Air, Exhaust, & Emissions Upgrades.


http://scraporchard.com/forum/images/smilies/1974_eating_popcorn.gif

You telling me the only time the rings need to seal is on the cumbustion/power stroke? Induction doesn't matter? Call up Sealed Power see what they say on that one.

Synthetic oil holds up to heat better and leaves less residue than mineral based oils.

FYI All of your big diesels (cummins, cat) have it vented to the outside. The only reason that its vented into the intake is for the emissions. This is actually a bad thing because it is routed in pre-turbo, this allows the oil droplets to impact the edge of the compressor wheel. Over time this will dull that leading edge causing a decrease in performance and efficiency. Also all that oil is pushed into the intercooler where the air slows, so there you will have pooling of oil... again hurting the effectiveness. And for the last thing... for combustion to happen you need the right mixture of air and fuel, so by letting oil blow in your changing that mixture. Again, not efficient.
Hope this helps you...

"Droplets of oil impacting the compressor wheel"? How much oil does your truck use!

Actually a fluid in the intercooler will improve the effieciency of the heat transfer......until you get to the point of restricting the volume of air passing thru, but there again how much oil is your truck passing?

How much oil do you figure you are passing to change the mixture? You have to be realistic when arguing your point. Hope this helps you.
With a truck like yours with your mods it probably dosent get much oil inside. Run some boost numbers at 30psi for peak boost and get on it more than once and awhile for an entire oil change then get back to me. My lbz had oil in it when i had the ppehot+2e.t. on it every oil change. Re-routed my pcv and no more oil. Fluid around the intercooler that keeps it cool would help but not inside the intercooler as you would loose cooling capacity and cause restriction from loss of surface area. It only takes a few drops of oil hitting your compressor wheel when it's spooled to do some harm. Like posted before this was for emmisions not performance hince why it changes from previous years on how it is routed.

the marine engines have been running crankcase into turbo inlet, what oil mist got to turbo, i never saw any noticable erosion(cats, alco's, paxmans, cummins and dd's) oil has insulator properties, when it gets into intercooler it will reduce thermal transfer. the crankcase air pressure should have little effect on piston rings, unless your having high crankcase pressure. piston rings are designed to control cylinder pressure. if your having oil blow out crankcase vents might have another problem that pcv is covering for. all large engine mfgr's use crankcase venting system, check racor website. has filter on lower section to stop/catch oil allowing oil to drain back and air to bypass out top. you will see some version on offroad diesels. the newest mercruiser/vmmotori 4.2(I6) has dual seperators instead of single feeding into turbo inlet.

You telling me the only time the rings need to seal is on the cumbustion/power stroke? Induction doesn't matter? Call up Sealed Power see what they say on that one.

Who is Sealed Power and what would they prove to me? induction?...induction of what? if YOU are telling ME that a negative pressure in the crankcase of a few (and i really mean a few) psi.....remember in your above post you stated that because it is routed through the turbo system it creates negative crankcase pressure.....will help seat rings.....that means that simply by free revving a new engine you can seat your rings....amazing. you should read here and on a few other forums how diesel engine builders break in their engines.



"Droplets of oil impacting the compressor wheel"? How much oil does your truck use! yes droplets of oil...and in high-boost situations streams of oil.

Actually a fluid in the intercooler will improve the effieciency of the heat transfer......until you get to the point of restricting the volume of air passing thru, but there again how much oil is your truck passing? i'm sorry but this is your biggest BS point yet.....HOT oil coming from the crankcase in no way, shape or form is going to increase the cooling capacity of your intercooler. now a single stage of NOS, sure, but not black hot oil that will just block the small passages in an intake.


i doubt i'll change your mind, but you need to get your mind outta the gutter man

Sounds like you already made your decision to re-route or not. I don't see how you can possibly even think that having a vacuum on the crankcase helps seal the piston rings, that doesn't even begin to make any sense to me, if anything it would only cause more ring bypass. If you don't want to do it then don't do it. All I know is that when I did mine and I pulled the stock lines off oil ran out of them and now rerouted I don't get anything out of the lines. Like kevinb230 said, the only reason it's vented into the intake is emissions, period.

Originally Posted by IGO1320 View Post
"Droplets of oil impacting the compressor wheel"? How much oil does your truck use! yes droplets of oil...and in high-boost situations streams of oil.

Actually a fluid in the intercooler will improve the effieciency of the heat transfer......until you get to the point of restricting the volume of air passing thru, but there again how much oil is your truck passing? i'm sorry but this is your biggest BS point yet.....HOT oil coming from the crankcase in no way, shape or form is going to increase the cooling capacity of your intercooler. now a single stage of NOS, sure, but not black hot oil that will just block the small passages in an intake.


i doubt i'll change your mind, but you need to get your mind outta the gutter man
__________________

Then where are all the turbo failures? There are more then enough guys running high boost with the PCV intact that we should be seeing them regularly according to you. I do agree oil hurts heat transfer, but really how much power are you losing? How much does it matter on anything but a comp only truck.

Changing the fuel mixture now that is the biggest BS point since when did any of us not want a little more fuel. My truck uses 1qt every 10K or so. Boy how is my engine going to handle all that extra fuel.

Synthetic oil isn't a "cure" but it should keep oil build up to a minimum. So will running your truck hard every now again to prevent the oil from pooling.

take your coffee black, not your intake :lol:

I go 10k to 12k between oil changes, never add oil in between, and its still on the full mark when I do change.

How much oil do you think really goes out the PVC with a sound engine????

:rolleyes:


( I do agree on the EGR delete however....)

Enough to look like this...

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/garageimage.php?do=full&p=95018&d=1248546618

IC boots come off next weekend to fix a slipping clamp. I'll see what is left in there after ~15,000 without the stock PCV.

I'm not saying that oil going through you turbo is going to trash it... however (attention everyone!!! soapbox time) I think that it MIGHT overtime cause a decrease in efficiency maybe by a percent or so, but its not going to cause a failure.
As for the intercooler... remember when radiators were painted black. They changed it to bare aluminum because that thin layer of paint was hurting the efficiency. Now if paint can make a negative change, why can't oil?
Fuel and air is what makes power in our engines, oil is neither of those... so how can you tell me it’s going to help?

You have to be realistic when arguing your point. Hope this helps you.
You sir!!! wanted to "stir the pot" I have approached you with a few theoretical ideas... much like your ring concept. Only a neanderthal would bash someone for providing some input. The shovel is in your hands, are you going to dig yourself deeper?

I'm not saying that oil going through you turbo is going to trash it... however (attention everyone!!! soapbox time) I think that it MIGHT overtime cause a decrease in efficiency maybe by a percent or so, but its not going to cause a failure.
As for the intercooler... remember when radiators were painted black. They changed it to bare aluminum because that thin layer of paint was hurting the efficiency. Now if paint can make a negative change, why can't oil?
Fuel and air is what makes power in our engines, oil is neither of those... so how can you tell me it’s going to help?


You sir!!! wanted to "stir the pot" I have approached you with a few theoretical ideas... much like your ring concept. Only a neanderthal would bash someone for providing some input. The shovel is in your hands, are you going to dig yourself deeper?

I am back at your request.....never thought of my self as a neanderthal though......I was out off pocket yesterday at the racetrack working on a new eco-tech powered car, yes it runs a turbo, we made 3 400 foot squirts with it (the driver doesn't have his lisence yet), coasted through the lights in the 150 ish neighborhood and 4.70's (1/8th mile). Now back to the subject at hand.

I think most radiators that were "painted black" were brass and it was done to help hold off corrosion, aluminium is a much better heat sink than brass that is why the change took place. No one can argue that the newer vehicles make much more power which translates into more heat that they have to deal with.

Oil does transfer heat and helps dramatically to cool the engine, if it was not needed to carry heat away from the journals of the crank and rods we could just instal a zerk fitting at the end of the crank and just give it a couple of pumps every few thousand miles! Alot of engines (including diesels) squirt oil up on the bottoms of the pistons....this isn't to insulate them, it is to cool them. Why do you put finned covers on your rearend (yep made of aluminium not steel) and transmision? Because the oil carries heat that you want to transfer to the outside air through a "sinking" process.

For the poster that asked, Sealed Power is one of the largest piston ring manufacturers in the world. Our engines work on the Suck, Squeeze, Pop, and Poof method......the rings also need to seal during the Suck or induction cycle not just the Pop or power cycle, when they do not, you will not get complete filling of the cylinder and a loss of efficiency. During the the Poof or exhaust cycle you want a minimum of drag which also helps efficiency.

Most of the oil you find in your intake came in as vapors (from being heated in the crankcase) and then when it cools you get that residue (now I am not saying it is "vaporized" just carried with the vapor). It is harmless when it passes the turbo, if it wasn't these guys that tow with their trucks for hundreds of thousands of miles would be replacing turbo's like fuel filters!

I could go on and on but some might take it that I am trying to insult and I am not, I said that I wanted to "stir the pot" but for the purpose of discussion not to hurt anyones feelings. Have a good day.

I will now put my "shovel" away.

so would not re-routing the pcv have a negaive on the blocked EGR. Oil buildup or whatnot. If so could someone please explain to me how it would happpen. I have heard about this but i dont know how oil gets into the egr or if the egr is even supposed to have oil in it. I know that sounds kinda dumb but i just want to know, and yall really seem to have a deep knowledge of this system. Thanks

I recommend it. Our shop Lmm with 450hp was using 1-1.75 quarts of oil in 4k miles at 32psi of boost to using no oil at all during oil change intervals when re routed. Oil collects dirt and that is just not good for the motor's livelyhood.

so would not re-routing the pcv have a negaive on the blocked EGR. Oil buildup or whatnot. If so could someone please explain to me how it would happpen. I have heard about this but i dont know how oil gets into the egr or if the egr is even supposed to have oil in it. I know that sounds kinda dumb but i just want to know, and yall really seem to have a deep knowledge of this system. Thanks

EGR blocking is another animal. Soot from the exhaust getting into the intake is bad. I don't see any downside to blocking the egr.

I recommend it. Our shop Lmm with 450hp was using 1-1.75 quarts of oil in 4k miles at 32psi of boost to using no oil at all during oil change intervals when re routed. Oil collects dirt and that is just not good for the motor's livelyhood.

Why do you think that is occuring? What I don't understand is the dynamic that would cause it to use oil if the PCV is hooked up but not use oil if it is disconnected? Oil mist would have to be at a high level for this to occur. Have you tried lowering the oil level by a quart and see if it still has the same consumption? Past experience has shown oil consumption (the oil gets beat up in the crank and rotating assembly) reduction's by lowering the level in the pan or using a pan designed for better oil control using directional screens. What do you think?

For the poster that asked, Sealed Power is one of the largest piston ring manufacturers in the world. Our engines work on the Suck, Squeeze, Pop, and Poof method......the rings also need to seal during the Suck or induction cycle not just the Pop or power cycle, when they do not, you will not get complete filling of the cylinder and a loss of efficiency. During the the Poof or exhaust cycle you want a minimum of drag which also helps efficiency.



Ask Sealed Power how much "Suck" there is in a forced induction engine?

It may "suck" at start up or initial firing (as the turbo is not spinning and can be a restriction), but since there is no throttle blades on a diesel (which is what creates suction in a gas motor), suction is non-existent or very insignificant at the least when it's running.



Also remember you are talking Positive Crankcase Ventilation (which is an emissions requirement). It recirculates fumes which would normally be vented into the atmosphere (greenies hate that).

Many performance gassers run vented to air (but you can see the buildup), or in cases where high RPM's, heat, windage cause excessive crankcase pressures many run a positive crankcase vent system (usually through a venturi effect tube placed in the exhaust, or via a vacuum pump). A vacuum pump has also showed that it frees up horsepower by pulling vacuum and reducing windage...

Other than "environmental concerns", there is no reason a PCV re-route in our turbo diesels is a bad thing, and it actually helps performance and longevity.


If one were to have an issue with excessive oil blowing out the re-route tube, it would actually be a great indicator that something is wrong within the engine and needs to be looked at....

Ask Sealed Power how much "Suck" there is in a forced induction engine?

It may "suck" at start up or initial firing (as the turbo is not spinning and can be a restriction), but since there is no throttle blades on a diesel (which is what creates suction in a gas motor), suction is non-existent or very insignificant at the least when it's running.



Also remember you are talking Positive Crankcase Ventilation (which is an emissions requirement). It recirculates fumes which would normally be vented into the atmosphere (greenies hate that).

Many performance gassers run vented to air (but you can see the buildup), or in cases where high RPM's, heat, windage cause excessive crankcase pressures many run a positive crankcase vent system (usually through a venturi effect tube placed in the exhaust, or via a vacuum pump). A vacuum pump has also showed that it frees up horsepower by pulling vacuum and reducing windage...



Other than "environmental concerns", there is no reason a PCV re-route in our turbo diesels is a bad thing, and it actually helps performance and longevity.


If one were to have an issue with excessive oil blowing out the re-route tube, it would actually be a great indicator that something is wrong within the engine and needs to be looked at....

We use vacuum in the crankcase (racing applications normally aspirated) to allow lighter (both tension and weight) ring packages, but there is a limit with a wet sump motor since absolute vacuum is 29" and you will drop the oil pumps ability to pump oil by roughly half the crank vacuum (in exc. 15" crank vacuum will cost you aprox. 7.5 LBS of oil pressure). During cruise most of our trucks run 5 LBS of boost or less, if the rings are sealing like they should you can have several inches of vacuum in the crankcase and this will help the economy and efficiency of the motor.




Agree. But I was responding to the poster and since he is a performance business I did not want to insult him by implying his motor may have a problem that he is not aware of.

Ask Sealed Power how much "Suck" there is in a forced induction engine?

It may "suck" at start up or initial firing (as the turbo is not spinning and can be a restriction), but since there is no throttle blades on a diesel (which is what creates suction in a gas motor), suction is non-existent or very insignificant at the least when it's running.



Also remember you are talking Positive Crankcase Ventilation (which is an emissions requirement). It recirculates fumes which would normally be vented into the atmosphere (greenies hate that).

Many performance gassers run vented to air (but you can see the buildup), or in cases where high RPM's, heat, windage cause excessive crankcase pressures many run a positive crankcase vent system (usually through a venturi effect tube placed in the exhaust, or via a vacuum pump). A vacuum pump has also showed that it frees up horsepower by pulling vacuum and reducing windage...

Other than "environmental concerns", there is no reason a PCV re-route in our turbo diesels is a bad thing, and it actually helps performance and longevity.


If one were to have an issue with excessive oil blowing out the re-route tube, it would actually be a great indicator that something is wrong within the engine and needs to be looked at....


Suction does exist if there is airflow. Works the same way as pulling vacuum with the exhaust flow.

After a little reflection maybe I am muddying up what my initial point was. In my original post the point was that for most of us that use our truck as gm intended (towing) I think we are better off leaving the PCV as is and I was trying to state my case. When using your truck for pulling or very hot tunes there is no way that the stock PCV can keep the crank case evacuated and maybe I did not state that clearly enough in the original post. Lets try and refocus this discussion just on the PCV as is apply's to a truck that is of mild tune and used for towing and street use. I agree that I digressed also and am not blaming anyone. Thanks. Have a good day.

Seems to be lots to go around. :knight:

There could be a positive to removing the PCV tube that is in the intake. It is a restriction to smooth air flow through the intake, small though.

What is everyones definition of PCV?

The original closed crank case ventilation system had nothing, again nothing, to do with emissions! The original closed crank case ventilation now known as pvc was put on delivery trucks back in the thirties, that's 1930s, to keep moisture from building up in the crank case. IE causing corrsion from moisture and other contaminants.

Some of you guys claim to be so smart yet can't even build a simple baffle to seperate the oil from the vapors in the pvc system.

Why build a simple baffle when you can simply re-route it? No sense in creating more work to accomplish the same goal.

the LB7 motor has a closed-loop crankcase vent as well. some ran through some sort of filter in the front of the motor then into the oil pan, and some just ran right back into the oil pan. LB7's also have higher oil pressures from everything i have read, than the lly/lbz/lmm engines. i dont know how this may fit into any of your equations, but i think the LB7 rules!!

There could be a positive to removing the PCV tube that is in the intake. It is a restriction to smooth air flow through the intake, small though.

What is everyones definition of PCV?

PCV is Positive Crankcase Ventilation. Removing the small restriction won't gain you enough air flow to make any difference at mild power levels. GM engineered plenty of flow into the Dmax motor, same reason that replacing the air box/filter doesn't give you any gain till your raise the output of the motor well above stock.


Rader2146 Why build a simple baffle when you can simply re-route it? No sense in creating more work to accomplish the same goal.

When you re-route it you lose the benefit of lowering the crankcase pressure below atmosheric pressure (vacuum). Another poster mentioned another benefit that I did not and that is to help the removal of moisture from the crankcase.

Just to muddy the waters a little more, I think some of the substance that is thought to be oil in the intake being blamed on the PCV is actually fuel that has bypassed the rings, it will vaporize when heated, which his how it got past the rings, as a vapor not as a liquid. Compression superheats the cylinder then the fuel is injected at 26,000 psi (also heating the fuel) which causes it to vaporize and burn immediately, not all of it gets burned however and your oil analysis shows this. As a side note the PCV should help keep the unburned fuel in the oil at a lower level.

Just to muddy the waters a little more, I think some of the substance that is thought to be oil in the intake being blamed on the PCV is actually fuel that has bypassed the rings, it will vaporize when heated, which his how it got past the rings, as a vapor not as a liquid. Compression superheats the cylinder then the fuel is injected at 26,000 psi (also heating the fuel) which causes it to vaporize and burn immediately, not all of it gets burned however and your oil analysis shows this. As a side note the PCV should help keep the unburned fuel in the oil at a lower level.

wow, now there's a new one....you have reached even greater depths in that hole you're digging.

why dont you prove your crackpot theory and have it tested for us.

thanks,
Tim

wow, now there's a new one....you have reached even greater depths in that hole you're digging.

why dont you prove your crackpot theory and have it tested for us.

thanks,
Tim

What "theory" do you disagree? The physics fact that pressure causes heat? Or the physics fact that fuel is injected at high pressure to atomize/vaporize it? Or maybe that fuel shows up in the oil analysis that we do? Or maybe that that vapor could be drawn into the intake through the PCV? If you cannot contribute KINDLY ressist the urge to denigrate. I do not insult you, please show me the same courtesy.

Why build a simple baffle when you can simply re-route it? No sense in creating more work to accomplish the same goal.


Wrong! The moisture and other contaminants will remain!

Some of you guys claim to be so smart yet can't even build a simple baffle to seperate the oil from the vapors in the pvc system.

Actually some of us are smart enough not to. :rolleyes:

the LB7 motor has a closed-loop crankcase vent as well. some ran through some sort of filter in the front of the motor then into the oil pan, and some just ran right back into the oil pan.

The LB7 crankcase vented through a metal vent tube to atmosphere. (The way it should be) It was 2004 emissions that changed it to a closed system..
Also the crankcase can't vent to the oil pan because the oil pan is part of what's being vented.

The LB7 crankcase vented through a metal vent tube to atmosphere. (The way it should be) It was 2004 emissions that changed it to a closed system..
Also the crankcase can't vent to the oil pan because the oil pan is part of what's being vented.

Bingo! I was waiting for someone to mention the fact that the LB7's are vented crankcases and not PCV. Interesting that they don't have any of the problems that everyone is reffering to...

When you re-route it you lose the benefit of lowering the crankcase pressure below atmosheric pressure (vacuum). Another poster mentioned another benefit that I did not and that is to help the removal of moisture from the crankcase.


IGO, Your theory is lacking badly.. First off you will not create enough vacuum to make enough difference in ways you mention. To be exact the vac created upstream of the turbo compressor wheel is only about 1/4 to 1/2" WC @ WOT with a new air filter in place. After 60K I'm reading about 3/4" WC at WOT. Atmospheric conditions across the globe varies many times more than 3/4" WC. In other words a closed PVC system in the south would allow more base pressure than an atmospheric system (Rerouted PCV) in the North. Bottom line is the PCV system was closed due to emissions, plain and simple.

As far as moisture and light ends go it is heat that battle these contaminants. If I had to calculate how much < 1" WC lowers dewpoint in an atmospheric base I would likely come up with a number that means nothing as it pertains to a benefit

You do realize that if the engine is making any power that the PCV system doesnt create a vacuum in the crankcase right? Yes, the pressure might be LOWER than if it is re-routed but it will not pull a vacuum. Dont believe me? Go put a gauge on the crankcase of your truck and tell me the results, I'll be right...

You know how I know? I work in the test cells at the Cummins Tech center and EVERYTHING has pressure and temp readings, and Ive NEVER seen an engine pull a vacuum on the crankcase while running. just an FYI, so you can throw that "theory" out the window and come up with something else...

What "theory" do you disagree? The physics fact that pressure causes heat?

Not exactly... It is compression that causes heat, Pressure will not compress a liquid, nor produce heat...

Pressure will not compress a liquid, nor produce heat...

B.S.!!!

You can absolutly "compress" a liquid. It wont change VOLUME as a gas or vapor will, but it will get HOT.

Guess you've never worked on hydraulic systems... huh?

:rolleyes:

B.S.!!!

You can absolutly "compress" a liquid. It wont change VOLUME as a gas or vapor will, but it will get HOT.

Guess you've never worked on hydraulic systems... huh?

:rolleyes:

Definition of the word "compress" by Webster's dictionary.

1 : to press or squeeze together
2 : to reduce in size, quantity, or volume as if by squeezing <compress a computer file>

So if u were to take a cylinder and fill it with a fluid of your choice and seal it completely with a piston and then apply a force of your choice great or small, that fluid will raise in temperature? I know you cant change the volume that a liquid occupies by compressing it, that's basic high school physics.

Do hydraulic systems have pressure gauges or compression gauges? I'm being serious! i've never seen one...

I'm not being a smart-ass and would really like to know that outcome of the story problem i lined out and if the answer is that the liquid would increase in temperature then i've learned something new.

B.S.!!!

You can absolutly "compress" a liquid. It wont change VOLUME as a gas or vapor will, but it will get HOT.

Guess you've never worked on hydraulic systems... huh?

:rolleyes:

So you believe it is actually compression that heats hydraulic fluid. That is about as BS of a statement as I've ever heard. Evidently you know nothing about hydraulic loops. If your theory would happen to be correct then why doesn't the fluid cool back to it's starting temp post PRV pressures and cancel the temp increase out. I'll give you a hint and lets see if you actually learn something or just jump back in with two feet and demonstrate the obvious.

"You can compress a liquid but it won't change volume" Amazing!

Hint: Hydraulic systems are a closed loop until volume is utilized...

Definition of the word "compress" by Webster's dictionary.

1 : to press or squeeze together
2 : to reduce in size, quantity, or volume as if by squeezing <compress a computer file>


Correctamundo bballer!

Do hydraulic systems have pressure gauges or compression gauges? I'm being serious! i've never seen one...

I'm not being a smart-ass and would really like to know that outcome of the story problem i lined out and if the answer is that the liquid would increase in temperature then i've learned something new.

Every aircraft I work on has a pressure gauge for each hydraulic system. And yes when the pumps are on, compressing the fluid to create pressue (3000psi is average system pressure) it heats up the fluid. In fact there are cooling tubes inside the fuel tanks (like a radiator) to disperse that created heat.

Pressure increase does not heat hydraulic fluid or any other liquid for that matter. Heat is a generated by continuous recirculating fluid friction and pump inefficiencies in worst cases. Other than its normal job function the fluid actually helps to keep the system cool via an oil cooler. Anyone with hydraulic experience knows this...

If pressure heats fluid then why doesn't my 4K pressure washer become a steam cleaner while in operation. Now let go the wand trigger and see what happens if you leave the pump in recirculating mode.

Every aircraft I work on has a pressure gauge for each hydraulic system. And yes when the pumps are on, compressing the fluid to create pressue (3000psi is average system pressure) it heats up the fluid. In fact there are cooling tubes inside the fuel tanks (like a radiator) to disperse that created heat.


So basically the correct answer to the story problem that a gave is, NO, the fluid will not and cannot heat up by applying a compressive force upon it.

And the real reasons why hydraulic systems get hot is
1. the hydraulic pump
2. the friction within the fluid passing through valves and fittings.
3. the the fluid being used to do work. i.e. transferring/converting horse power.

sorry for the digression.



Back on topic.

To whoever brought it up first about the vacuum in the crankcase...
Don't forget another good reason to have it is that is removes gasses that have been dissolved in the oil faster that left at ambient pressure or positive crankcase pressure. This, as i'm sure you can figure for your selves is better for the moving parts that are being lubed with oil.

Ask NASCAR engine builders why they have crankcase vacuums...

And to whoever brought up the idea that a vacuum would impose a oil pressure loss due to the vacuum being in the crankcase....
How do you figure that? if the entire system (meaning the entire inside of the engine) is subjected to the same vacuum how could this possible make a difference in oil pressure / extra load on the oil pump?

If you apply the exact same vacuum to both sides of a differential pressure gauge it will read ZERO. food for thought....

GM engineered plenty of flow into the Dmax motor, same reason that replacing the air box/filter doesn't give you any gain till your raise the output of the motor well above stock.



BS...

Have you ever looked at a stock LLY mouth piece? If you haven't i suggest you do. That right there is one of the biggest reasons why the LLY gets hotter towing than any other D-MAX made. And if upgraded to a LBZ mouthpiece can yeild considerable gains in stock form. That, BTW, is why GM designed a NEW (LBZ and up) mouthpiece for essentially the same turbo. (yes i know the exhaust housing are different, blah blah blah, that's not the point and doesn't make a difference in this instance)

I know one thing for sure! Mine is vented under the cab and some time I'm gonna run them to the back....The smell is terrible!

This all boils down to the fact that the nay sayers have never removed their turbo MP and looked inside. They have not removed the PCV and seen the oil dripping out of it. I saw this while installing a new AFE Bladerunner and PCV re-route (thanks to Chad at Alligator Performance). My truck is pretty much bone stock with 43,000 miles on it. Just check for your self before you get into an argument about compression. By the way, liquid does not compress, it produces heat from friction when moving through plumbing.

Wow, where did the PCV discussion go? Lets try and keep the topic and tempers on track.;)



Wrong! The moisture and other contaminants will remain!

A slight vacuum will not evacuate moisture and contaminants. Vacuum is just negative pressure. You need FLOW to evacuate contaminants.

2 key parts to flow. Source & destination. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but other than the PCV ports in the valve cover, and the fill tube, there are no other entry's or exits for the crankcase. That means that the only SOURCE of flow is the piston ring blow-by. A slight vacuum will not increase blow-by. In fact, IGO1320 claims that vacuum will decrease blow-by. So, knowing that flow is limited by the source, it will make no difference whether the pcv is vented to atmosphere or to the intake. You will still have the same amount of airflow that will carry away the contaminants.

This all boils down to the fact that the nay sayers have never removed their turbo MP and looked inside. They have not removed the PCV and seen the oil dripping out of it. I saw this while installing a new AFE Bladerunner and PVC re-route (thanks to Chad at Alligator Performance). My truck is pretty much bone stock with 43,000 miles on it. Just check for your self before you get into an argument about compression. By the way, liquid does not compress, it produces heat from friction when moving through plumbing.Yep! My boots were showing oil seepage. I rerouted and finally, I my boots are dry! It took a few thousand miles and several cleanings, but now, no more oil in my intake!

Wow, where did the PCV discussion go? Lets try and keep the topic and tempers on track.;)





A slight vacuum will not evacuate moisture and contaminants. Vacuum is just negative pressure. You need FLOW to evacuate contaminants.

2 key parts to flow. Source & destination. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but other than the PCV ports in the valve cover, and the fill tube, there are no other entry's or exits for the crankcase. That means that the only SOURCE of flow is the piston ring blow-by. A slight vacuum will not increase blow-by. In fact, IGO1320 claims that vacuum will decrease blow-by. So, knowing that flow is limited by the source, it will make no difference whether the pcv is vented to atmosphere or to the intake. You will still have the same amount of airflow that will carry away the contaminants.


WOW, someone finally used the common sense flashlight and shed some light on the topic. :thumb: Thank you.

This all boils down to the fact that the nay sayers have never removed their turbo MP and looked inside. They have not removed the PCV and seen the oil dripping out of it. I saw this while installing a new AFE Bladerunner and PCV re-route (thanks to Chad at Alligator Performance). My truck is pretty much bone stock with 43,000 miles on it. Just check for your self before you get into an argument about compression. By the way, liquid does not compress, it produces heat from friction when moving through plumbing.

Yep! My boots were showing oil seepage. I rerouted and finally, I my boots are dry! It took a few thousand miles and several cleanings, but now, no more oil in my intake!


WOW! real life testimonials...

This thread should be locked, i feel dumber now that i have read this whole thing and even replied to it. Too many people talking about stuff they don't even know about, and providing false or inaccurate information to people who might be making the decision to do the re-route.

WOW! real life testimonials...

This thread should be locked, i feel dumber now that i have read this whole thing and even replied to it. Too many people talking about stuff they don't even know about, and providing false or inaccurate information to people who might be making the decision to do the re-route.
So what stopped the oil seepage if it wasn't the re-route?

WOW, someone finally used the common sense flashlight and shed some light on the topic. :thumb: Thank you.
While gloating...I think you read his post wrong...The last part.


I actually think its splatter more than blow by that get sucked in. Mine seemed to do it the harder and longer I drove it.

WOW! real life testimonials...

This thread should be locked, i feel dumber now that i have read this whole thing and even replied to it. Too many people talking about stuff they don't even know about, and providing false or inaccurate information to people who might be making the decision to do the re-route.
Anger issues!!

So what stopped the oil seepage if it wasn't the re-route?

No, u misunderstood what i was saying. I think PCV re-routes are the only way to go. And that is exactly what stopped the oil from getting in your boots.

While gloating...I think you read his post wrong...The last part.


I actually think its splatter more than blow by that get sucked in. Mine seemed to do it the harder and longer I drove it.

gloating about what? I'm pretty sure i read it right???

Ok...I have to put my crack pipe down now, cause it sure looked like you were saying something different! My Baad!

Ok...I have to put my crack pipe down now, cause it sure looked like you were saying something different! My Baad!


lol, I've been known to smoke crack too sometimes. :D:p:

No, u misunderstood what i was saying. I think PCV re-routes are the only way to go. And that is exactly what stopped the oil from getting in your boots.
Sorry, I guess I misunderstood also.

Well I didn't bother reading all the posts here, but would like to mention that I am keeping my PCV on both my twin turbo builds, however it is being re-routed to the exhaust (I want to keep my turbos and intake clean) I would like a relatively high vacuum in my crankcase, it's called an EVAC system.

What "theory" do you disagree? The physics fact that pressure causes heat? Or the physics fact that fuel is injected at high pressure to atomize/vaporize it? Or maybe that fuel shows up in the oil analysis that we do? Or maybe that that vapor could be drawn into the intake through the PCV? If you cannot contribute KINDLY ressist the urge to denigrate. I do not insult you, please show me the same courtesy.

i dont disagree with actual physics principles, i disagree with you making assumptions about what a fluid must be in order to be right. test the oil that is in the turbo plumbing before you keep spouting off what it must be. your idea about blow-by failed, your idea about seating the rings failed, what more is there to prove?

The LB7 crankcase vented through a metal vent tube to atmosphere. (The way it should be) It was 2004 emissions that changed it to a closed system..
Also the crankcase can't vent to the oil pan because the oil pan is part of what's being vented.

Bingo! I was waiting for someone to mention the fact that the LB7's are vented crankcases and not PCV. Interesting that they don't have any of the problems that everyone is reffering to...

if i remember correctly, the fed and cali systems have it running to a oil separator on the alternator bracket and back into the pan, the separator is vented

Pressure increase does not heat hydraulic fluid or any other liquid for that matter. Heat is a generated by continuous recirculating fluid friction and pump inefficiencies in worst cases. Other than its normal job function the fluid actually helps to keep the system cool via an oil cooler. Anyone with hydraulic experience knows this...

If pressure heats fluid then why doesn't my 4K pressure washer become a steam cleaner while in operation. Now let go the wand trigger and see what happens if you leave the pump in recirculating mode.

The pressure cleaner is doesn't heat all the fluid because it has a reseviour that is not under pressure. With a sealed system (like an aircraft system or ROV which I work on) all the fluid is pressurized which builds heat in the system even at "idle" with no flow. We run about 3K psi also and have to put our pumps into bypass until we get to enough depth to cool them sufficently.

Wow now we have a discussion going that could educate all of us or at least give us food for thought! Now lets keep the rude comments to a minimum and all will be good.

1) I have been very general with my terminology because I didn't want a bunch of "Clintonesque" picking apart of my words. If you are getting oil in your intake thru the PCV then you have "FLOW", for "FLOW" to occur you have to have a difference in potential I called it Vacuum for simplicity.......so we all agree that there is "FLOW" from the crankase to the intake OK?

2) I stated that GM designed the intake system well enough that small changes to improve the airflow are insignificant. Again as I have stated at least twice in this post, I am talking about normal use.....in exc. cruising on the highway and normal around town driving with a mildly tuned truck, not at the dragstrip or hooked to the pull sled, lets keep it in context.

3) If you can keep a vacuum....excuse me flow from the crankcase it will help remove the fumes (vaporized fuel and moisture (heat vaporizes water out of the oil and our engines are hot when operating correct?)).

4) Without the intake supplying the source for the vacuum/flow you are using atmospheric pressure as your low side for flow to occur this means the crankcase has to become pressurized. This hurts the ring seal. Folks this is a fact, it may be a small amount but is is still a negative.

Now what this all boils down to is:

a) Some say they use more oil when the PCV is connected, others have not seen this (myself included).

b) Everyone agrees that they are seeing oil/residue in the intake, can we logically discuss (without anybody's feelings getting hurt or there Johnson getting stepped on)what damage may or may not be occuring.

The pressure cleaner is doesn't heat all the fluid because it has a reseviour that is not under pressure. With a sealed system (like an aircraft system or ROV which I work on) all the fluid is pressurized which builds heat in the system even at "idle" with no flow. We run about 3K psi also and have to put our pumps into bypass until we get to enough depth to cool them sufficently.

I need to correct this, the pumps are getting hot, heating the fluid not the fact that there is pressure causing the heat....sorry rattled off before I thought.

b) Everyone agrees that they are seeing oil/residue in the intake, can we logically discuss (without anybody's feelings getting hurt or there Johnson getting stepped on)what damage may or may not be occuring.You can leave your "johnson" out of this! I for one experienced a boot blow off on two occasions. I tightened the clamp almost to the breaking point...and dried the oil residue the best I could with what I had on the side of the road:mad: My theory was the oil residue caused the boot to slip off. Right or wrong, without websters to assist in the description, I cleaned the oil from the cac and and all the piping the best I could, rerouted the PVC to the ground and voila...no more problems and the residue is gone...finally. That by itself was enough reason for me to reroute. I haven't got one drop of oil out of either hose but the smell is terrible.

if i remember correctly, the fed and cali systems have it running to a oil separator on the alternator bracket and back into the pan, the separator is vented

I'm not sure about the cali systems. My truck was FE9 emmisions and vented straight to atmosphere. Either way they didn't enter the turbo which proves the point that tying into the turbo is 2004 emissions related.

Edit: Tying into the oil pan also isn't possible because this is the area being evacuated.

You can leave your "johnson" out of this! I for one experienced a boot blow off on two occasions. I tightened the clamp almost to the breaking point...and dried the oil residue the best I could with what I had on the side of the road:mad: My theory was the oil residue caused the boot to slip off. Right or wrong, without websters to assist in the description, I cleaned the oil from the cac and and all the piping the best I could, rerouted the PVC to the ground and voila...no more problems and the residue is gone...finally. That by itself was enough reason for me to reroute. I haven't got one drop of oil out of either hose but the smell is terrible.

OK, so the plus is you can get more of a grip with the hoses and the minus is it "stinks".

Do you do oil analysis and have any copies? Thanks have a good day.

Nope! I have 85k, doesn't use a drop of oil between changes, change oil every 3-6k. I see no need in taking further steps.

Add another one to the lubricated boot blow off list. And just know that when it happens you will likely be in a high boost situation and in need of power. For me I was pulling 12K up a steep overpass. It got ugly..

Add another one to the lubricated boot blow off list. And just know that when it happens you will likely be in a high boost situation and in need of power. For me I was pulling 12K up a steep overpass. It got ugly..

How much boost were you running when it blew off? Not doubting just trying to get a feel for what it takes to become a problem. When was the last time you had checked it before it blew off? Just seems that if the main reason for bypassing the PCV is to keep oil from going into the intake and causing boot blow off we might look at how the oil is getting there, is the oil level in the crank too high (dipstick not marked correctly?) or is the oil that is being used foaming (some oils are more ressistant to foaming)? If it goes into the intake it will go onto the ground with the bypass all else being equal.

Now we are having a discussion.

I just took the boot off on my truck (coming out of the turbo) I have a little residue but very little. I never run my oil level more than half way up to the full mark, I would rather it be slightly low than too high and getting into the rotating assembly. Where do you run your oil level at?

WOW! real life testimonials...

This thread should be locked, i feel dumber now that i have read this whole thing and even replied to it. Too many people talking about stuff they don't even know about, and providing false or inaccurate information to people who might be making the decision to do the re-route.Now I have to agree with bballer!! This is bad. If you want to re-route then re-route, if you don't then don't. There is plenty of informative info if you use the "search" feature. We are not bypassing, just re-routing. I'm out. Good Day to you.

X3... Hasta-La-Vista

How much boost were you running when it blew off? Not doubting just trying to get a feel for what it takes to become a problem. When was the last time you had checked it before it blew off? Just seems that if the main reason for bypassing the PCV is to keep oil from going into the intake and causing boot blow off we might look at how the oil is getting there, is the oil level in the crank too high (dipstick not marked correctly?) or is the oil that is being used foaming (some oils are more ressistant to foaming)? If it goes into the intake it will go onto the ground with the bypass all else being equal.

Now we are having a discussion.

I just took the boot off on my truck (coming out of the turbo) I have a little residue but very little. I never run my oil level more than half way up to the full mark, I would rather it be slightly low than too high and getting into the rotating assembly. Where do you run your oil level at?

Vaporized liquids condense, do they not? There is your answer for how the oil is getting into the intake tract. As for how much boost...anywhere from 17 to 27 pounds on a stock tuned engine...thats all it takes when the boots are "lubricated" like they were never intended to be.

You also mentioned that liquid in the intercooler would increase its efficiency...this only applies to liquids that will evaporate at the temperature of the air that is entering the CAC. Oil does not...it instead coats the inside, providing an insulating layer on the cooling surfaces thereby REDUCING efficiency.

Furthermore, in a worst case scenario, if there was ever enough engine oil condensed in the intake tract, it is possible to cause an engine runaway. If you are not familiar with this: This is when the oil in the intake tract begins to fuel the engine (Yes, this is possible...seen it firsthand). This oil is NOT throttled, causing the engine to simply run uncontrolled. Ever heard a duramax rev to 8K RPM? It will do it in this situation. There is absolutely NOTHING you can do in this case...Hold on for dear life with both feet on the brake peddal and hope that it runs out of oil soon, or put the trans in neutral and let the thing destroy itself. Seems like a good enough reason to re-route the PCV and make it an atmospheric vent to me.

So looks like I am the only one re-routing it to the exhaust :cool:

The OP sounds like Killerbee. regoddamdiculous.

If you want a PCV reroute, do it, if you think your god and know more and anyone else, keep the PCV. who cares.

So looks like I am the only one re-routing it to the exhaust :cool:

I think that is a better idea than dumping to the ground or in a catch can, you still get some flow out of the crankcase which should help.

You do realize that if the engine is making any power that the PCV system doesnt create a vacuum in the crankcase right? Yes, the pressure might be LOWER than if it is re-routed but it will not pull a vacuum. Dont believe me? Go put a gauge on the crankcase of your truck and tell me the results, I'll be right...

You know how I know? I work in the test cells at the Cummins Tech center and EVERYTHING has pressure and temp readings, and Ive NEVER seen an engine pull a vacuum on the crankcase while running. just an FYI, so you can throw that "theory" out the window and come up with something else...

Completely agree...... ;)

The OP sounds like Killerbee. regoddamdiculous.

If you want a PCV reroute, do it, if you think your god and know more and anyone else, keep the PCV. who cares.

Don't think I am god, and I have not ridiculed anyone for their opinion whether or not I agreed. I have simply tried to point out that not everyone seems to be haveing a problem. Ridiculous is going off talking about runaway diesel engines because you leave your PCV hooked up or calling for the thread to be closed because you disagree with the points being brought up or suggested.

Completely agree...... ;)

It is still "flow" whether you want to call it vacuum or not.

So looks like I am the only one re-routing it to the exhaust :cool:

Just make sure that you do it in a manner that the exhaust pressure won't make it back up into the crankcase. Maybe mount a tube into the exhaust pipe protruding into the pipe at a 45 degree angle thus the flow of exhaust will prevent this...

Don't think I am god, and I have not ridiculed anyone for their opinion whether or not I agreed. I have simply tried to point out that not everyone seems to be haveing a problem. Ridiculous is going off talking about runaway diesel engines because you leave your PCV hooked up or calling for the thread to be closed because you disagree with the points being brought up or suggested.

I sense a little hostility...

The example I posed is a WORST CASE SCENARIO. in any case, you are not to be swayed, so I'm out! Peace!

I sense a little hostility...

The example I posed is a WORST CASE SCENARIO. in any case, you are not to be swayed, so I'm out! Peace!

If you think I was hostile, I apologize not my intent. Have a good day.

Just make sure that you do it in a manner that the exhaust pressure won't make it back up into the crankcase. Maybe mount a tube into the exhaust pipe protruding into the pipe at a 45 degree angle thus the flow of exhaust will prevent this...

That is the plan :)

First off, I absolutely feel re-routing the pcv system is a good thing, I will give IGO1320 some credit though. He sure has labeled the thread correctly right off the bat. If nothing else he certainly has "stirred the pot". He gets my vote for pot stirrer of the year, and it's only April.

Currently I have mine rerouted into my passenger side fender well, its only wet from oil right at the hose other than that not noticable. I did run 2 hoses from both sides of the engine too. On my old turd (aka Ford) I had it ran into the exhaust at a 45 degree angle as mentioned. It worked out great!

IGO1320 did a great job stirring the pot. Thanks to all those who stirred back... learned alot

What I find interesting about this subject is that some people have "a lot of oil" in there intake and others do not seem to have a problem. I was trying to get a discusion going as to what the dynamics are that cause the discrepancy, in example engine dynamics, dynamics of use, oil types, level of oils, control of oil, or ????? I appreciate the people that added thoughts without being rude or trying to hijack the thread and I apologize to anyone that thought I was rude. The purpose of the excersise was just to have an intelligent discussion.

I personally do not have the problem but my truck is very mild. I think using the exhaust to vent the crankcase is the next best idea. It would be interesting if some of the people that have a lot of oil use or leakage out their vents would try lowering the oil level in the crankcase to just above the low mark. If the oil gets up in the crankshaft/rotating assembly during acceleration this will cause an incredible amount of foaming/vapor/mist which will get pushed out of the crankcase. Or possibly try another brand of oil for 20K miles or so. Just a thought.

Again I am not saying anyone is wrong or right there are many different views on this.

Thanks and have a good day.

Just read this and replace a few words with intake (low cool pressure) crank case (high hot pressure). The pvc system is just nature.

In nature, equilibrium and balance are goals. When nature is in balance, stability is attained. When nature is out of balance, it does everything within the natural laws to regain that balance. Perhaps everything that happens in nature has a purpose and a cause. This balance is not attained instantaneously. It takes the dimension of time to correct any action that causes an imbalance. When a region of excess is placed next to a region of deficit, nature tries to equalize the regions.

Place cold water into warm water, and the waters will mix and with time will come into an equilibrium temperature between that of the original cold and warm waters. Heat ALWAYS travels from warm objects toward cold objects. Why? Warm represents an excess while cold represents a deficit of heat. Heat travels from the region of excess to deficit. In the atmosphere, there are regions with an excess pressure and those with a deficit pressure. Regions with an excess pressure are termed high pressure and those with a deficit, low pressure. To equalize the pressure, nature moves the air from the high pressure toward that of the deficit low pressure. It is like a car tire. The air pressure inside a car tire is greater than that outside the car tire. When the tire has a leak, the air travels from inside the tire to outside the tire OR from a region of excess pressure to a region of deficit pressure. This is the reason the pressure gradient force is directed from high to low pressure.

Just read this and replace a few words with intake (low cool pressure) crank case (high hot pressure). The pvc system is just nature.

In nature, equilibrium and balance are goals. When nature is in balance, stability is attained. When nature is out of balance, it does everything within the natural laws to regain that balance. Perhaps everything that happens in nature has a purpose and a cause. This balance is not attained instantaneously. It takes the dimension of time to correct any action that causes an imbalance. When a region of excess is placed next to a region of deficit, nature tries to equalize the regions.

Place cold water into warm water, and the waters will mix and with time will come into an equilibrium temperature between that of the original cold and warm waters. Heat ALWAYS travels from warm objects toward cold objects. Why? Warm represents an excess while cold represents a deficit of heat. Heat travels from the region of excess to deficit. In the atmosphere, there are regions with an excess pressure and those with a deficit pressure. Regions with an excess pressure are termed high pressure and those with a deficit, low pressure. To equalize the pressure, nature moves the air from the high pressure toward that of the deficit low pressure. It is like a car tire. The air pressure inside a car tire is greater than that outside the car tire. When the tire has a leak, the air travels from inside the tire to outside the tire OR from a region of excess pressure to a region of deficit pressure. This is the reason the pressure gradient force is directed from high to low pressure.


I understand what your saying I just don't see how your trying to tie this into the current topic.
Hey you should open a shop in Sedona based in what you said... those people would make you rich$$$$
:bling:

I understand what your saying I just don't see how your trying to tie this into the current topic.
Hey you should open a shop in Sedona based in what you said... those people would make you rich$$$$
:bling:

X2.....LOL.

While I dont know a whole lot I do know that before my reroute I would use a quart if not a little more between oil changes. After the reroute I haven't used any oil between changes. My truck is basically stock (just bigger tires and the reroute) and is used for daily driving long drives and towing my travel trailer.

I understand what your saying I just don't see how your trying to tie this into the current topic.
Hey you should open a shop in Sedona based in what you said... those people would make you rich$$$$
:bling:

The question I'm trying to address is do you need vacuum to make the pvc system work on a diesel engine.

It sounds to me that before 2004 the crank case was vented out of the engine on its own. After 2004 it was vented inside the engine, due to new emissions standards. This is also why when the LLY came out in 2004 it had an EGR as where the LB7 the years before didn't. The crank case will vent just fine on it's own, it doesn't need an outside source of vacuum, just a place to travel too. There is heat generated in the crank case that will create pressure, and as long as there is a place to travel, the pressure will push the gasses out.

Now as far as where it should get vented to. I blocked my EGR off because it was putting gasses and other crap into the intake that had no business being there. The PCV being vented into the intake is doing the same thing. Bottom line is: If it's not cool, clean AIR.... I don't want it in my combustion chamber.

I do like the idea of venting it to the exhaust at a 45, might give it a slight Venturian effect and provide a slight vacuum. Not to mention any oil residue will be evaporated off the exhaust pipe once it heats up, and provide a place to put the stink behind you.

The question I'm trying to address is do you need vacuum to make the pvc system work on a diesel engine.
No it doesn't

You will need it to vent, if it is sealed you will start pushing oil out the seals. I think if you have some positive flow it will help keep moisture and some of the other vapors (byproducts of combustion) out of the crankcase, which is good with no downside. The downside of doing it into the intake of the engine is that when you heat the engine oil you get vapor (more so with dino oil) and it will condense back in the intake making it oily. The more power you make the more of a problem it is. This is overyly symplified but thats the jist of it. I think most everyone will agree with this.

It sounds to me that before 2004 the crank case was vented out of the engine on its own. After 2004 it was vented inside the engine, due to new emissions standards. This is also why when the LLY came out in 2004 it had an EGR as where the LB7 the years before didn't. The crank case will vent just fine on it's own, it doesn't need an outside source of vacuum, just a place to travel too. There is heat generated in the crank case that will create pressure, and as long as there is a place to travel, the pressure will push the gasses out.

Now as far as where it should get vented to. I blocked my EGR off because it was putting gasses and other crap into the intake that had no business being there. The PCV being vented into the intake is doing the same thing. Bottom line is: If it's not cool, clean AIR.... I don't want it in my combustion chamber.

I do like the idea of venting it to the exhaust at a 45, might give it a slight Venturian effect and provide a slight vacuum. Not to mention any oil residue will be evaporated off the exhaust pipe once it heats up, and provide a place to put the stink behind you.Exactly! I think I will put it in the exhaust in a couple of weeks.