The company I work for just purchased 2 new 5500 GMC LLY/Allison trucks to add to the fleet. At 18,000 miles one of them starting surging, stuttering and just plain running weak. We took it to the local GMC Medium truck dealership were they proceded to T/S it. They called us and told us the fuel filter hadn't been changed at the correct intervals and that all injectors were ruined because of it. They wanted 8500$ to R&I the 8 injectors, drain the external fuel tanks and replace the fuel filter, as this was not gonna be covered under warranty!

I ordered 8 injectors and verifyed the bad ones with a TECH II, 7,2,4,3.
I replaced the 7,2 injectors, and it ran 100% better. I verified 3,4 were still dead and replaced them. It now runs perfect. I plan on installing some sort of pre-filter now.

1200$ for injectors
6 hrs @ $78 = $468

1700$ ?

I can't believe they would try to rip someone off that bad. Anyone else have a similar experiance. I think the dealer might get to visit the Court House over this one.

Who did maint. on trucks before injector failure? I believe they will have a hard time proving the fuel filter theory. Look at how many trucks have had the injectors replaced.....why, out of all the failures, is this one being picked on as a maintenance issue?

I will start the bidding at $7500. I will supply all the parts and labor as well as pick up and deliver the truck back to you when the job is done.

I will also fill the truck up with fuel before I give it back since I am a nice guy.

I just saved you $1,000.

When do you want me to pick it up?

.

i hope you're kidding on that one. that sounds quite wrong!

THAT is the one and only reason the Dealer does all the servicing on my truck. If GM tries to back out... no joy! All the serv records are done and verified by the techs and the dealership.

THAT is the one and only reason the Dealer does all the servicing on my truck. If GM tries to back out... no joy! All the serv records are done and verified by the techs and the dealership.
This is :offtopic:but what do they say about the twins?

This is :offtopic:but what do they say about the twins?

They never saw them since the hood is welded SHUT ):h

1200$ for injectors
6 hrs @ $78 = $468

Hey,

So tha's $150 per injector? Were those new? And is their a price difference between LB7 & LLY? Were they genuine Bosch from a GM dealer?

When I do finally buy a DMAX, it will probably be used, so I am curious about the prices!!

Thanks,

Will

TWINS??:eek: What twins? What you talking about Willis???:funnypost

Curioius, do the 05's still spec a 15k fuel filter change?? If it only has 18,000 miles, how could the fuel filter not have been changed at the correct intervals, when at 18k it should have only been changed once?? Greedy bastids....

Fellas I don't have a clue as to why they would deny service? The fuel filter should have been changed at the proper interval 15k? but if a dirty filter causes a bad fuel system then the filter really needs to be adressed.

The injectors came from two dealers James Wood and Classic Chevy. They were 300$ ea but I only used 4 not the 6 that I bought.

This morning I put on a CAT fuel filter of my own design and will be doing the same thing to the twin of this truck to hopefully slow the cycle.

How would they know when the filter had been changed, and if they deny warranty because of that then maybe they don't want to sell trucks very bad. Seems like they just wanted some easy cash.

If it was the original factory filter it may be very easy to tell. It seems to me if the facts are straight here that someone has a ****ty dealer. My service writer talked to me about chips for my new DMax and when I asked him about warranty he said what chip? It pays to take care of the people taking care of you. :)

This is :offtopic:but what do they say about the twins?

They told me not to push a HG out.

The rest they are cool with!:D

It just seems like really bad business to me. They didn't want to work with us or anything. We are a huge company which uses such trucks in our everyday business. These two trucks actually replaced two F-650's with CAT engines so you would think they would be glad to have it.

By the way the truck in question sounds like it's occasionally detonating, then it will let out a puff of black smoke then proceed as normal, any ideas. Probably another sticking injector.

What dealer quoted you the high R&I price, just curious to see who it is..

Bankston, in NRH.

Geez, I'm so confused.:confused: :confused: All this code talk: T/S, R&I, TWINS, HG, NRH. Must be alot of text messengers on this 4um. ):h

Remove & Install, North Richland Hills

Bankston, in NRH.

Good! I thought you were going to say James Wood.:D

I thought he was too, but.......nevermind

Isn't Bankston a Ferd dealer?

I think Bankston is a anything dealer. It used to be Hudiburg which later became Autonation and is now Bankston.

The GM rep will not return our calls?

The company I work for just purchased 2 new 5500 GMC LLY/Allison trucks to add to the fleet. At 18,000 miles one of them starting surging, stuttering and just plain running weak. We took it to the local GMC Medium truck dealership were they proceeded to T/S it. They called us and told us the fuel filter hadn't been changed at the correct intervals and that all injectors were ruined because of it. They wanted 8500$ to R&I the 8 injectors, drain the external fuel tanks and replace the fuel filter, as this was not gonna be covered under warranty!

I ordered 8 injectors and verified the bad ones with a TECH II, 7,2,4,3.
I replaced the 7,2 injectors, and it ran 100% better. I verified 3,4 were still dead and replaced them. It now runs perfect. I plan on installing some sort of pre-filter now.

1200$ for injectors
6 hrs @ $78 = $468

1700$ ?

I can't believe they would try to rip someone off that bad. Anyone else have a similar experience. I think the dealer might get to visit the Court House over this one.

The simple fact that the filter was plugged should NOT damage a properly designed fuel system! Doesn't the 5500 series have sensors to tell weather or not the filter is plugging? Even my 1987 6.2 would alert me by turning on the water in fuel light when the filter was getting plugged. The 1988 Ford 7.3 that I drove would do the same thing.
If the injectors were damaged by a plugged fuel filter, then it could happen at ANY mileage. I have had filters plug up from a bad load of fuel and the didn't have 1800 miles on them, let alone 18,000! So in the future, whenever your fuel filter gets plugged, you can look forward to a repair bill that would make a decent down payment on a new truck? What is wrong with this picture?

If you fuel your trucks from a single source, then why is this truck the only one affected?

Did the dealer keep (YOUR) old filter, or did they trash it and then claim that it was plugged? That filter was your company's property. It should be exhibit # 1. If they can't produce it, then how can they prove that it is what caused the problem?

I think that you need to bypass the dealer and have a heart to heart talk with the GM factory rep. Hopefully you saved the injectors and the fuel filter. They would/should be of interest to the rep. Hopefully you could get reimbursed for the injectors and some of the labor to change them.
If you don't contest this situation with the rep, then your warranty for the rest of the fuel system will be null & void!

Remind the rep that your company has bought these trucks to compare to Cat powered equipment. Right now, the comparison has taken a black eye for GM.

Keep us posted.


Britt

Most, if not all diesel engines loose power when the fuel filters start to get plugged. The only way a "plugged" or bad filter would cause injector damage is if the filter element itself got torn or damaged, and let the crud through. Actually, the more a filter gets plugged the BETTER it filters. Dealers explanation does not make sense.

Most, if not all diesel engines loose power when the fuel filters start to get plugged. The only way a "plugged" or bad filter would cause injector damage is if the filter element itself got torn or damaged, and let the crud through. Actually, the more a filter gets plugged the BETTER it filters. Dealers explanation does not make sense.

In my preceding post, I guess that I did not state the question that I had clearly.
I should has asked if plugging fuel filters causes the LLY injectors to damage themselves due to reduced fuel flow.

Pick is correct when he states that filters actually filter better as they get dirty. In the Cat and big Detroit's, dirty filters just cause power loss. I have never had any diesel engine damage injectors simply because a filter was dirty.

Cartercraft stated that the dealer said that the fact that the filter hadn't been changed is what ruined the injectors. If this is indeed the case, then any time a filter gets dirty, we will have an EXPENSIVE repair bill. (I'm hoping that this is NOT the case!!)

Cartercraft didn't say if the filter was actually dirty or not. The dealer said simply that " They called us and told us the fuel filter hadn't been changed at the correct intervals and that all injectors were ruined because of it."

It sounds to me that the dealer saw an excuse to pass the costs of the failure back to the customer and took it. That is a pretty short sighted and drastic action, ESPECIALLY if the filter wasn't IN FACT PLUGGED!

Additionally Cartercraft stated that " I replaced the 7,2 injectors, and it ran 100% better. I verified 3,4 were still dead and replaced them. It now runs perfect."

So in addition to dumping the whole cost back in the customer's lap, the shop either misdiagnosed the good injectors as bad, or intentionally decided to do unnecessary work at the customer's expense!

If this is in fact the case, the people responsible for this should at the very least be reprimanded for shoddy workmanship! And if found that they knowingly were going to replace the four "good" injectors also by claiming that they were bad, then they should be FIRED! That is fraud!

This kind of situation makes me ill. This customer was contemplating on buying more Duramax powered trucks based on how well these two trucks performed. Part of any truck purchase is dealer support. It appears to me from what information is presented here, that this dealer in particular has a lot to learn. Censored

If there was or is a question, the factory rep should have been called in by the dealer immediately. ESPECIALLY since there are other reports of injector problems with the LLY.

Treatment like this will cause even the most easy going customer to change brands.

Britt

By the way the truck in question sounds like it's occasionally detonating, then it will let out a puff of black smoke then proceed as normal, any ideas. Probably another sticking injector.

My 2004.5 exhibited these same symptoms, but no DTC codes were thrown and injector flow rates all checked out normal. We also checked the EGR and made sure the connectors C107 and C108 were making good contact per TSB 04-06-04-001. No problem found.

In the end, a load of bad fuel was suspected and GM Technical Center expressed concern about the overall lubricity of low-sulphur diesel (which I didn't believe). Nonetheless, we ran a bottle of Stanadyne Diesel Fuel Additive, Chev. Part number 31417 D. Treatment $6.15 through the system after changing the filter at 10,000 miles.

5,000 miles later and the symptoms have not recurred.

$8500 sounds high to me.

They claimed a bad load of fuel that was passed through a over due filter. We ran a API test and a was the result. I think the acceptable range for #2 is 32-38 which it scored 36. I also had the tech that drives the truck run some additive, no fix.

They claimed a bad load of fuel that was passed through a over due filter. We ran a API test and a was the result. I think the acceptable range for #2 is 32-38 which it scored 36. I also had the tech that drives the truck run some additive, no fix.

:rant: How could bad fuel "pass through" a filter unless it failed internally? Did the filter in fact fail? Do you still have the filter? If so, it should be sent to an independent lab for analysis.
OR, did they dispose of the filter and then claim that it was bad?
If they disposed of the filter, on which they are basing their claim, then everything that they say is based on hear-say.
I repeat, the fact that the filter was not changed at an arbitrary interval should not have caused injector damage. If the filter failed internally, or by-passed is another issue that can only be answered by inspecting the old filter element. The old filter, if it still exists, is the property of the company that owns the truck. The dealership should make the filter available for testing.
Where is the GM area rep on this matter? The GM rep should be involved in this. At this point, the rep will have be the one who decides the results here, not the dealer.

Also at issue here is the implied failure of the stock fuel filter to adequately protect the injectors from failure. There should have been warning signs, such as loss of power LONG before any damage resulted, no matter when the filter was last changed.

What if the filter was just changed & the next load of fuel was "bad"? Are they saying that the filter would have protected the injectors in that situation? Something doesn't add up here!

Are we to expect injector damage every time we get a load of bad fuel? Does the original filter set-up provide inadequate protection for this type of injector?

The above question needs an answer from GM. I don't know about the rest of us, but I can say that I cannot afford an $8000.00 repair bill just because a filter system is inadequate.

AND, I can see a scenario where someone has installed extra filtration to prevent this type of failure, and then having the added filtration being blamed for any future fuel system problems.

Cartercraft, Pleas have your company pursue this issue and keep us posted.

Britt

I've had a filter plug in 3000 miles from BAD fuel, it sets MANY 1093 codes.

Goes into limp mode w/ a 1093.

So if filter was even remotely plugging up u should have set 1093's and limp mode.

I've had a filter plug in 3000 miles from BAD fuel, it sets MANY 1093 codes.

Goes into limp mode w/ a 1093.

So if filter was even remotely plugging up u should have set 1093's and limp mode.

:exactly:

If Cartercraft's driver didn't get any warning, then it would be safe to assume that the fuel filter in question was, in fact, not plugged and therefore could not have caused the damage to the injectors.
The dealer blaming the failure on not changing the fuel filter just does not hold up as an explanation.
Thanks, DMax Tim

Britt

The company I work for just purchased 2 new 5500 GMC LLY/Allison trucks to add to the fleet. At 18,000 miles one of them starting surging, stuttering and just plain running weak. We took it to the local GMC Medium truck dealership were they proceded to T/S it. They called us and told us the fuel filter hadn't been changed at the correct intervals and that all injectors were ruined because of it. They wanted 8500$ to R&I the 8 injectors, drain the external fuel tanks and replace the fuel filter, as this was not gonna be covered under warranty!

I ordered 8 injectors and verifyed the bad ones with a TECH II, 7,2,4,3.
I replaced the 7,2 injectors, and it ran 100% better. I verified 3,4 were still dead and replaced them. It now runs perfect. I plan on installing some sort of pre-filter now.

1200$ for injectors
6 hrs @ $78 = $468

1700$ ?

I can't believe they would try to rip someone off that bad. Anyone else have a similar experiance. I think the dealer might get to visit the Court House over this one.

Cartercraft,

Out of curiosity I got the Duramax Diesel engine book out of my 05 2500HD & looked up the fuel filter change interval. Admittedly, this book is from a 2500HD & not a 5500. I looked for a note that stated for 2500 series only, but I did not find anything.
What I did find was that this book does not list a hard mileage for changing the fuel filter. it is listed as a "Maintenance II" scheduled maintenance. "Replace fuel filter. An Emission Control Service. See foot note t."
"t" is an interesting foot note.
" The U.S Environmental Protection Agency or the California Air Resources Board has determined that failure to preform this maintenance item will not nullify the emission warranty or limit recall liability prior to the completion of the vehicle's useful life. We, however urge that all recommended maintenance services be performed at the indicated intervals and the maintenance be recorded."
Cartercraft, I would urge you to first check to see if this applies to the 5500 series trucks, and if it does, gently point this out to the service manager and the GM Area Representative.
I am not a lawyer, but if they have voided the emissions warranty because of "failure to perform this maintenance item" is a direct violation of the determination by the US EPA and CARB, as stated in the 2005 Duramax Diesel book, Part No. 15101364A, page 6-8 under "Maintenance Footnotes".

I hope that this helps. This whole situation stinks. Horse Censored like this gives GM and Chevrolet a black eye.

:rant: One negative experience can undo YEARS of good will and exemplary service. I would say that the service manager needs to be reassigned to the wash rack with a pay cut to match. :D

Good Luck,

Britt