Hello,

Can someone help with info on this problem? I am trying to help a friend that has a 04 Duramax that is unhappy with his truck. Read the emails below to see his problem. This is a couple of the emails we sent back and forth. I have removed the name of the dealership, I don't want the lawyers coming after me. This is copied and pasted from several emails, it may be out of sequence. It seems to me the dealers are at fault here, especially with their attitude! For more info email me at dpaulfinch@ntbb.net.

I have looked through several message boards and can't find anything on this, can someone help? This sounds like a very isolated problem with a couple of dealers that don't know what they are doing. Where and who should he talk to to get this resolved?

Paul



From Paul-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Finch
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 3:43 PM
To: Mike
Subject: Duramax?

From Mike-Answers below in caps I PROMISE I AM NOT YELLING!

From Paul
Mike,
I am getting closer to buying a new Chevy or GM with a Duramax, I can buy one for a little more than a low mileage used truck of the same model and options. I know you don't like yours because of the mileage problem. Have you had yours to the dealer to check on the injector problems? They have a real long warranty on them.
Paul

From MIKE-NO I HAVE NOT HAD TIME TO FOOL WITH IT I JUST FINISHED A BUILDING IN 36 DAYS FROM NOTHING TO LEASE AND DONE SO I HAVE BEEN DOING NOTHING EXTRA.

From Paul-Anyway, I am doing some research on the trucks and the only guy that has complained about his mileage was a someone that had put every high performance gadget available. Sounds like he has other problems also, have you done any mods to yours?

From Mike-NO IT IS STOCK JUNK

From Paul-Who told you that the Duramax a converted gas engine? According to a message board located at http://www.duramaxdiesel.com/11_faq/#33 , they say it was developed from the ground up as a diesel. See the quote below.

From Mike-THE SERVICE MANAGER AT Censored AUTO PLAZA IN Censored JUST BEFORE HE TOLD ME TO GO Censored MYSELF BECAUSE THERE IS NOTHING MORE GM CAN OR WILL DO.

From Paul-This is a quote from the Duramax page I found.
"Q: Is The Duramax engine another "converted gas engine?"
A: No, this engine was designed from the ground up with the most current technology by Isuzu Motors Limited. Isuzu has designed and built high-quality diesel engines for over 60 years."

From Paul-So, I don't understand your problem with the truck not getting warm in the winter.

From Mike-TELL HIM IT IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND THE JUNKY Censored WILL NOT WARM UP! THE TEMP GAUGE SETS ON 120 DEG THE FUEL MILEAGE SUCKS AND THE HEATER WILL NOT KICK ON. AND GM SAYS THAT IS THE WAY THEY MEANT IT TO WORK AND IF I DON'T LIKE IT WORKING THAT WAY THEN I MUST BE STUPID. PS THEY CHANGED THE THERMOSTATS 3 TIMES LEAVING ME WITHOUT A TRUCK FOR ALL 3 TIMES.

From Paul-You know me, I am a GM guy, I would buy a Dodge before I buy a Ford!

From Mike-I DON'T LOVE OR DISLIKE ANYBODY BUT YOU CAN BET I WILL NOT BUY ANOTHER ONE OF THESE Censored AFTER THE WAY GM HAS TREATED ME. I HAVE HAD 2 CHEVYS, A VAN AND A TRUCK AND THEY BOTH WERE A PAIN IN THE Censored. I MAY TRY THE HONDA PICKUP NEXT BECAUSE I HAVE TALKED TO GUYS THAT DON'T LIKE THE NEW SMALLER POWER STROKE EITHER BUT I BET IT HEATS UP THE TRUCK IN THE WINTER..

From Mike-I have been to GM and 2 different dealers with the same results. Even the guy at 1800-I-Don't-Care-if -you-live-or-die told me there is nothing else they will do. I have $2000.00 of my own time already invested in this problem and have gotten nowhere. I will drive the junk truck until I trade it and GM will receive my fullest bad mouthing I can produce until it goes and then for 10 more years. IT does ride better than the Ford did, not near the power though.
Mike

:eek:K

Never mind, I now see your question.

First off its a diesel and if its really cold you should run your winter front. Second off sounds like you do have a problem like a thermostat sticking. My truck runs fine in the winter(a bit cooler sometimes) Over 180 though and I have heat(although the cooler it is the longer it takes). Pluging in the truck will speed up the time that it takes for the engin to warm up also but its not needed. The motor is also a new desing and not a converter gasser. Ask him what gasser its converter from with its 6.6L displacement and 4 valve per cylinder aluminum heads? A overgrown northstar??? I think not. Even the older 6.5 diesels they stuck in the chevys up till 2000 were not convertered although people think they are. Chevy did use a converter gasser 350 to a diesel a long time ago thogh.

I thought that was pretty clear, we need help getting the problem with low temp fixed or at least some kind of resolution! Who is Brian?

Paul

What more do you want from the people on this board? If your story is a factual depiction of the events that have happened, then your friend needs to take his truck to a reputable Chevrolet Dealer to fix his problem. Then he should contact Chevrolet customer service to file a complaint against the first two dealers and if he does not recieve satisfaction from customer service he should file a complaint with the BBB.

If your friend is foolish enough to accept what these dealerships are telling him instead of following through on the process to find an acceptable solution there is nothing anyone here can do to help him.

Sorry, I didnt read your topic, just the post :o:

The brian comment was also a mistake, posted it in the wrong post :o:

I need more coffee:rolleyes:

And I'm with swilk, if Chevy finds out that a dealer is doing what is described above they will be PISSED! I would talk to GM and forward all these emails ect on.

Philip,

He has the radiator cover and that does not help, still runs cold. Thay have also replaced the thermostats three times like I said in the post. He has also tried plugging the block heater in, no help.

He knows now because of the info I gave him it is NOT a gas modified engine, that also is in my earlier post.

Swilk, he has tried both dealers close to him, the next dealer is over 100 miles away. He has also tried the 1-800 number with no resolution, that info is also in the earlier post! Is there another number or venue to try? That's what this is about, trying to get him satisfied with his truck and it seems most people think I am bashing the truck, I am not. I currently have three Chevy trucks, a 72 El Camino, 1989 1/2 Ton with 305,000 plus miles and a 2000 Silverado with 135,000 miles. I don't like Dodge or Ford, just trying to get info and some sort of resolution on this matter!

My friend is covered up with work, I on the other hand have nothing else to do right now, I am self-employed and work is slow so I have the time to look around and try and help.

Something else, I started this under another existing topic because I was new and unfamilar with this board, I got more than a few comments about me being a basher, I am not. I may be a little sensitive about some of the attacks. Sorry for some of the Newbie errors.

Thanks to anyone that has positive help,

Paul

:welcome:

I missed some info, sorry.

I really have no info for you other than your dealer service people are jackoffs and the truck is not operating normaly. Hopefully one of the smart techs jump in here. I also find it disturbing that GM didnt go balistic. I woulda though that a call to them woulda had them chewing on someones ass. Hopefully a tech will jump in and give you a bit of direction and hopfully another call to GM will get someone with a clue that can see he is being dicked around here and the service people are ignorant.

Didnt you say something in a previous post about the dealers drilling holes in the thremostats or something???

Philip,

Sorry, I just sent a email to Mike asking if the dealer had drilled the holes or was it from the factory. In the different thread someone posted that there are bypass holes from the factory, still don't know if that's correct.

He is being messed around a lot, he lives in a rural area in Western Illinois, ain't much out there but cornfields!

The other topic was the one about overheating engines, you can go over there and read some of the posts if you want to.

Guess it's going to take some time for everyone to trust what I am saying, that's why I use my real name and my email address is my name.

Thanks for the help,
Paul

Question for you, what is the current operating temperature of his truck? I'd suspect if the t'stats were crap he'd still be running cool (i.e. 180'ish) not the normal 210'ish that he should be running in the hotter spring/summer months.

This info may help identify if he's got open/by-passed t'stats.

BTW welcome, and stick around you're certain to find several folks here who are willing to help you find answers rather than just pipe BS up your tail pipe.

We trust ya ;) Just trying to get some info to help ya. Sit tight, hopefully a tech will mosey on in here and help out.

Green Chevrolet in Peoria is were I bought my truck from and seems to be ok in the way of service. They have always treated me fairly anywho. If you take it to them just dont say some guy on the net with a bunch of mods like nitrous on a 03 black truck with a cowl hood and a lightbar said he bought it from here and likes thier service. I'm stock remember ;)

This deal sucks and I would hope/assume GM corprate would step up.

IF it was my friend and live close by I'd go pick up the truck and live with it myself for a weekend at least and see what I might learn that a busy business owner might not have time for. I have temp gun the uses inferred to measure temps. I'd like to drive the truck and see it the temps are as low as he thinks, maybe even use a scanner to verify this. I'd remove the factory temp gauge sending unit and install (for testing only oh course) a new manual gauge setup from you local auto parts store and replace the sending unit if it came up to running temps, If not then leave it installed and off to a "good dealer" we'd go. I'm sorry but I know the squeeky wheel gets more attention and I'd 2 step across the GM's desk if I had too. Even show them the lemon law might wake them up too.

The info I want is:

1) Tell me about these bypass holes the dealer drilled

2) Is the fan locked up all the time. You should never be hearing the fan at all.

.

Hello all,

I like this! I just got another email from Mike, remember the dealerships have replaced the thermostats three times now. Mike did just tell me that the worst is when the outside temp is down around 5 degrees! Yeah, 5 degrees! He says the heater does not come on, is there a switch that prevents the heater from turning on if the engine is not hot enough? He had a Ford Powerstroke and the Cummins in a Dodge, both seemed to heat OK even when cold.

By the indication from Mike below is that he is not sure if the dealership drilled the holes, enlarged the holes or if there is even bypass holes there. The dealership just said they are there to keep the engine from overheating. As good as Isuzu is supposed to be why would they continue to have a overheating problem this many years into the product?

Here is my last email and his replies:

Mike's reply-I will answer them in the body. Plus I faxed you the paperwork I have from the whole thing.

Paul's reply-Yes, now I have the whole history. Can I get in trouble if I give the name of the dealerships? I mean at least one was outright wrong when they told him the Duramax was a modified gas engine!

-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Finch [mailto:dpaulfinch@ntbb.net]
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 11:05 AM
To: Mike
Subject: Drama


Mike,

What year is the truck? Mike's reply-2004

Did the dealership actually drill the holes or are they saying it's a
factory mod?
Mike's reply-I have never seen it I am only relaying what they told me at . They said it was a gas engine to start and the factory made the mod to the thermostat to let more water through in the summer to keep it from overheating. I have never seen it overheat.

Have you tried going straight to GM with this problem? Do you have an
extended warranty?
Mike's reply-I do not have an extended warrantee. Yes I did go to GM via the 800 number, reference number 1-????????. I was told that have done all they can do when I say I am not happy they said they are really sorry but they can do nothing more. It is just the way it is designed and I have to live with it. I dealt with a Shannon Vanhorn at 866-932-4368 x 39358 and he was nice about it just not helpful.

What some of the people on the message boards are saying is you may need to
replace the intake manifold if the dealer drilled more holes or enlarged
them.

Question, last Summer when you were down here, what was the temp running?
Does it ever seem to overheat? Does the radiator cover seem to help at all?

Mike's reply-Never has overheated the cover helps very little down past 5 or 10 degrees.

Paul's reply-What I know about diesels is they have to reach a decent temp to work
properly, that includes fuel mileage and power.

Paul

TXCHristopher,

I don't know the answer to your fan question. Is the cooling fan electric and thermostaticlly controlled like on some cars? What do you mean about the fan locked up?

Mike has never seen the cooling holes, the dealerships just told him there was bypass holes to keep the engine cool. Since he has never complained about overheating I doubt if they drilled bigger holes, unless that is the mechanics are complete idiots! It would make no sense to drill holes or enlarge the holes if the complaint is that the engine does not heat up like it should!

Thanks for the interest and help,
Paul

When the fan is on it makes a deccent amount of noise. Then again if it was always on you would think its normal. Its a heat activated clutch/fan thats driven off the motor not electronics.

I am not saying I dont believe you. I cant believe GM hasnt went ape**** over this. I would be livid! I duno what he is telling them though?

How long does he drive his truck in cold weather that its not warming up?

Edit: were exactly does he live???

Bowtie,

By the way, he lives in Western Illinois, I live in North Central Texas. It about 900 miles between the two. I just have the time right now, too hot to go outside and work anyway.

Paul

The reason I asked about his fan is because many people report their fan locked up on cold mornings. The fan is a "clutch" fan for our purposes, it is designed to "lock up" at certain temperatures, I think 195* at the face of the fan.

Since others get the fan at first on cold mornings but then the fan releases shortly after, I was wondering if his fan is staying engaged. At very low temperatures, especially 5*, it would be tough to get the truck to warm up if the fan were running constantly, if not impossible.

thermostat should stay closed even if the fan is running there shouldnt be too much cooling of the coolant since it really shouldnt be moving through the radiator.

were does he live in IL?

I am of the personel opinion that you or your friend is full of it. The story just doesnt make sense ....... Why is he complaining of a problem that happens when the temp is 5 degrees outside when it is the middle of summer and temps are closer to 105? Why do you keep asking the same questions .... you are only going to get the same answers .... take it to a different dealer and get the problem fixed. Report the original dealers to Chevrolet customer service and if this does not help report them to the BBB. How many miles are on this truck? If they are over 100,000 then Chevrolet and its respected dealerships are under no obligation to diagnose nor fix this problem .... What is the VIN of the truck? One of the tech's from this forum will be able to check repair history and see if more of the story can unfold .....

Four Seasons Auto Plaza in Sullivan, IL, perhaps? ):h

Illinois??? Obviously this isn't an issue right now.

http://www.usatoday.com/weather/twc_images/acttemp_440x297.jpg

TxChristopher,

Oh, I think you mean the fan clutch that drives off the water pump and is supposed engage more when the engine is hot and less when cold? When it's cold they should be free-wheeling! I have seen them free-wheeling even when hot, that's when you replace them. That is a great idea to check that, if it was fully engaged that would make the engine run cold and get worse fuel mileage to boot! Will let him know.

Paul

Swilk,

This came up because I RECENTLY asked him what he thought about the truck he has, Duh it has a Duramax engine. I have been doing research because I am interested in buying one during the employee discount promoton. I have until July 5th unless they extend it which I doubt. I am not aware of asking the same question several times. Also how come you are the only one giving negitive feedback, others are trying to help, that's all I am asking! Again, I have given out my personal email address, so far you have not sent a email requesting more info. I refuse to put some info out on this public of a forum.

TxChristopher, your correct, it's not really a problem now it just when I asked Mike the questions and I got a earful. I now have faxed copies of everything the dealerships did!

Paul

Good, scan the stuff and post it. There is no reason not to do so, you don't sign a non-disclosure agreement when a dealership works on your vehicle.

I will have to ask my friend, he will probably say OK if the name and address is changed.

Does this message board allow jpg's?

Stand by, will let you know.

Paul

Paul,

Ask him for the VIN #, if it is not on the paper work, DO NOT cross it out, or your out.

You thought I was a Hard Ass. I'm a Woossy next to these guy's.

We will help, but You And Your Buddy, must do More than your half.

That Truck Will ROCK when it's RIGHT !

Brook AKA Idahofox

I will have to ask my friend, he will probably say OK if the name and address is changed.

Does this message board allow jpg's?

Stand by, will let you know.

Paul

Insert the jpg right into the message box, all I do is copy and paste it.

OK, he has given me the go-ahead to post the scans of the records, I probably won't put his address out on this public of a forum, you can email me for that info if needed. Will scan later today when I get time. If it were my information I would not want it to be that public either. As it turns out the engine gets to 160 degrees not 120 when the outside temp goes down to 5 degrees. The kicker still is the Ford and Dodge Cummins both heated the cab where the Duramax only gets a little warm. Like I said, it Texas it is not going to be a problem! Think I am going sometime today to buy mine!

Paul

Right, on my gauge, the lowest reading is "160".

Idahofox

Uuumm .. i thought you werent working and had all kinds of time on your hands. Where is the information?

All the time on my hands changed a couple days ago, that and trying to buy a truck. It seems there is some things on my credit history that are not correct, am fighting the credit boards now besides installing a big customer. I said self-employed, means I work when the customer says work. Got to run, will post the scans next weeks after I get back from a long weekend at the lake with no Internet!

Paul

Quick update, I purchased my new 2500 Duramax pickup, 4X4, 4 door long bed! I pick it up at the James Wood dealership Wednesday sometime!

How much does the 4X4 affect the fuel economy? I hope not a lot!

Paul